The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

What do you expect out of Howell? Let’s start there.

I expect him to score a tuddy and a 2pt conver on every possession so that in the off chance we get a defensive stop, we win the game.

We finally get a young guy who's actually developing into a good QB despite a sieve for an OL and a defense that exemplifies the concept that the game is played on the field not on paper, and some people are giving him grief.  What does he have to do, brag about scheduling his life in 15 minute blocks of time?

[MartinC]

18 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

Sorry. I dont see an elite player. I want elite. 

Did Peyton Manning look elite after 7 starts? Josh Allen? Jalen Hurts? Not sure what to tell you, Howell is ahead of schedule right now with a chance to be a top 10 type QB. Right now I’d say he’s borderline top 15.

 

Here are the guys I would definitely rank ahead of Howell right now. Not in any specific order.  Who would you add?

 

Mahomes

Allen

Hurts

Tua

Burrows

Herbert

Jackson

Goff

Cousins

Dak

Geno Smith

Lawrence 

Purdy (maybe - want to see more of him under real pressure playing from behind)

Stafford (but he’s on the decline)

Stroud - maybe

 

Howell for me is right in the bracket with Purdy and Stroud. A notch behind maybe but in that conversation.

 

[FootballZombie]

My biggest concern surrounding Howell is still trying to figure out how much of his production is situation-ally dependent due to the lopsided scoring. Its hard to determine if he is the kind of QB that can be the productive passer when you have a competitive team, and not just only when your throwing the ball around in a game with a scoring disparity.

 

Only getting 150 today didn't help much in that regard, but I still generally feel good about Howell. He has been a plus player so far, and for a rookie that is more than you get from most of them.

 

He is not blowing my socks off nor am I confident he is the guy, but he has been good so far. That's good enough for now.

[DiscoBob]

This fanbase is delusional... we finally have a decent QB after years of crap, and we want to kick his ass to the curb cuz he isn't Mahomes

[Voice_of_Reason]

24 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

Sorry. I dont see an elite player. I want elite. I dont want a Carr level QB which everything Sam is showing me to be. And if we have a brand new full staff. I want them to pick their own high end QB. I cant see them taking on the previous tiers QB who would be on their 3rd system in 3 years 

At any given time there are 2 or 3 elite QBs in the NFL. 
 

Mahomes and Allen would be considered elite at the moment.  If you want to argue Joe Burrow, ok, but he’s not having an elite like season.

 

The way you get those guys is you get as lucky as the water boy who gets to go to Prom with the Prom Queen. You never know who’s going to be that guy.  #1 overall picks have failed more than succeeded.  Mahomes was the 10th pick, Allen I think was the 6th.  You have to pick the guy and then you have to get lucky.  
 

I’ll take a top-end starter.  
 

And there’s nothing I’ve seen from Howell to say he could t develop into that.  He’s played 7 games.  
 

Peyton Manning threw 20 INTs and the colts went 3-13 his rookie year.  Would you have given up on Peyton?  That would have been stupid.

 

It took Allen 2 years of being “meh” before he developed into the QB he is. 
 

Mahomes was different.  But he also, like Brady, found himself in a PERFECT situation.  That doesn’t happen a ton. 
 

Howell could be a SB winning QB.  It’s impossible to tell anything after 7 games.  

[Stihl89]

4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Did Peyton Manning look elite after 7 starts? Josh Allen? Jalen Hurts? Not sure what to tell you, Howell is ahead of schedule right now with a chance to be a top 10 type QB. Right now I’d say he’s borderline top 15.

 

Here are the guys I would definitely rank ahead of Howell right now. Not in any specific order.  Who would you add?

 

Mahomes

Allen

Hurts

Tua

Burrows

Herbert

Jackson

Goff

Cousins

Dak

Geno Smith

Lawrence 

Purdy (maybe - want to see more of him under real pressure playing from behind)

Stafford (but he’s on the decline)

Stroud - maybe

 

Howell for me is right in the bracket with Purdy and Stroud. A notch behind maybe but in that conversation.

 

And its not just an outright ranking. There are guys playing worse that I would rather have if were projecting forward. Thats what we have to do. This season play this year in terms of rankings is worthless. I think rankings in general are worthless if youre not considering contract. Like if I have to win a game today and thats all that mattered im picking Carr over Richardson. But looking ahead im picking Richardson over a lot of guys including roughly have your list there.

[MartinC]

Just now, Stihl89 said:

And it’s not just an outright ranking. There are guys playing worse that I would rather have if were projecting forward. Thats what we have to do. This season play this year in terms of rankings is worthless. I think rankings in general are worthless if youre not considering contract. Like if I have to win a game today and thats all that mattered im picking Carr over Richardson. But looking ahead im picking Richardson over a lot of guys including roughly have your list there.

If Howell continues on his current path and we can get him to stop taking sacks I’d have him higher on that list as well!

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

23 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

Sorry. I dont see an elite player. I want elite. I dont want a Carr level QB which everything Sam is showing me to be. And if we have a brand new full staff. I want them to pick their own high end QB. I cant see them taking on the previous tiers QB who would be on their 3rd system in 3 years 

If only there was an elite QB tree they could select from.

 

Obviously, everyone would like an elite QB.  However the stars have to align on so many levels in order to get one.  Likely need to have a god awful season to draft at the top of the draft, there has to be a can’t miss prospect to select, then you have to develop said player, stay healthy and get better every season.  Or trade the farm for someone else’s QB that they don’t think is elite anymore.

 

[GoDeep81]

I mean, QB is currently the least of my worries. Sam looks fine, for his experience. 

[Stihl89]

I dont see the problem with not settling with Fine and wanting elite. Give me more swings at the elite QB options. It the only way to consistently be in the hunt. 

[NoVaSkins21]

If Sam can eliminate the unnecessary sacks, he can eliminate the injury element and elevate his game

[KDawg]

Just now, Stihl89 said:

I dont see the problem with not settling with Fine and wanting elite. Give me more swings at the elite QB options. It the only way to consistently be in the hunt. 

The problem is the rest of our roster suffers every time we swing at ****. It’s okay to want to be open to a high end QB, but you also have to understand that forcing it when you have an adequate QB is a team building blunder.

[tmandoug1]

Let's end the conversation about Sam being a failure or the "one". We have a ways to go before that decision is made. He has made some great plays and some terrible plays so far this season. Let's let him grow and learn this year. If he is, or isn't the one we will know at the end of the year.

Edited October 15, 2023 by tmandoug1

[DiscoBob]

4 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

I dont see the problem with not settling with Fine and wanting elite. Give me more swings at the elite QB options. It the only way to consistently be in the hunt. 

 

Your approach, given how Howell has played is bad asset management.  If you don't see the harm in throwing away something solid, because it isn't the best... queue up the last 20 years of highlights and see what you think...

[Stihl89]

6 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

If Sam can eliminate the unnecessary sacks, he can eliminate the injury element and elevate his game

It can be done but its arguably one of the most difficult things a QB can fix. Its one of those things that a QB has or doesnt.

1 minute ago, DiscoBob said:

 

Your approach, given how Howell has played is bad asset management.  If you don't see the harm in throwing away something solid, because it isn't the best... queue up the last 20 years of highlights and see what you think...

I dont really care about the last years. You could easily argue that settling for solid has been the main reason we have been very middling over the last 20. 

[NoVaSkins21]

2 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

It can be done but its arguably one of the most difficult things a QB can fix. Its one of those things that a QB has or doesnt.

It's definitely a mental thing that I think Sam can fix.  It may some time given his lack of experience IMO

[MartinC]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The problem is the rest of our roster suffers every time we swing at ****. It’s okay to want to be open to a high end QB, but you also have to understand that forcing it when you have an adequate QB is a team building blunder.

I would say Howell is a lot more than adequate right now after just 7 starts. With a lot of room to improve.

 

And I know you are not thinking Howell is just adequate. Let alone that that’s his ceiling.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

I would say Howell is a lot more than adequate right now after just 7 starts. With a lot of room to improve.

 

And I know you are not thinking Howell is just adequate. Let alone that that’s his ceiling.

I do not. I was making a more general statement.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think Sam Howell is a top ten quarterback in this league. I’m excited to watch him grow. 

[RVAskins]

Imagine what Sam would do behind a line like the Eagles.

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, Stihl89 said:

It can be done but its arguably one of the most difficult things a QB can fix. Its one of those things that a QB has or doesnt.

I dont really care about the last years. You could easily argue that settling for solid has been the main reason we have been very middling over the last 20. 

 

I don't think that's true really true in terms of things that are hard to fix.  To me the biggest thing is just lack of arm strength.  The next this is accuracy.  Improving mechanics can help with them some, but it seems to me a lot more QBs have not been able to achieve long term success because of those two things than taking sacks.

 

I'd bet if you do something like measure passes thrown over 30 yards and just completion percentage there is a lot less variability in those things in a career (where people don't improve much) than sacks taken.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by PeterMP

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

My biggest concern surrounding Howell is still trying to figure out how much of his production is situation-ally dependent due to the lopsided scoring. Its hard to determine if he is the kind of QB that can be the productive passer when you have a competitive team, and not just only when your throwing the ball around in a game with a scoring disparity.

 

Only getting 150 today didn't help much in that regard, but I still generally feel good about Howell. He has been a plus player so far, and for a rookie that is more than you get from most of them.

 

He is not blowing my socks off nor am I confident he is the guy, but he has been good so far. That's good enough for now.

3 games were either won or went to OT and he was a big part of all of those.  
 

He had a big part in the Bears game getting them to within 10 with a FG to pull to within 7.

 

The other 2 games:

Bill, he was abysmal.  
Today: EB stoped being aggressive up 14, that’s not on Sam.  
 

To me, when he’s been asked to put the team on his back and carry them, he’s been able to do it.

 

And with our running game and defense he’s going to have to do it a lot.

[PeterMP]

I will say, I'm not saying that Howell will fix his sacks problem.  But I'd much rather have a young QB that takes too many sacks than a guy that doesn't really have the arm strength to throw a deep out into good coverage.

 

Looking at the QBs that have sacked the most per season somebody like Carr clearly has issues.  And then there is Bortles who is out of the league and so could be argued never fixed the problem.  But there are also quite a few players that make the list once suggesting that it is just a noisy statistic and/or something (some) people do improve on.

 

(Though I'm also not sure if Howell is accurate enough to really be a guy that you can win a championship with.)

Edited October 16, 2023 by PeterMP

[MartinC]

23 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I think Sam Howell is a top ten quarterback in this league. I’m excited to watch him grow. 

I’m excited by Howells performance and potential. But I can’t say he’s top 10 yet. He has the potential to be that though IMO.

[Dark Acre]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

Only getting 150 today didn't help much in that regard, but I still generally feel good about Howell. He has been a plus player so far, and for a rookie that is more than you get from most of them.

Crowder should've fair caught that punt and given Howell a chance to add 61 yards (and a few more sacks along the way).  Yards gained are a very indirect measure of success.  Tuddies is much better.  Threw 3.  Granted they weren't awe-inspiring bombs but c'mon.