The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[KDawg]

Herbert isn’t throwing the ball away, is taking a lot of hits and holding it way too long. Looks like the Chargers have to replace him.

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Herbert isn’t throwing the ball away, is taking a lot of hits and holding it way too long. Looks like the Chargers have to replace him.

 

But...but.. he is an elite QB  

[Warhead36]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Herbert isn’t throwing the ball away, is taking a lot of hits and holding it way too long. Looks like the Chargers have to replace him.

He did complete a pass to himself and ran for the 1st which was pretty nifty I must say.

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, Metalhead said:

He's 23. He's been sacked 34 times, has a crappy OL, and still hanging with the big boys in the league by putting up good to great numbers. He's already Top 15 in the league, imo. Yeah, basic stats but they are what counts at the end of the day.

 

5th in Completions at 145

9th in Yards at 1500

10th in TD's at 9

10th in Cmp% at 67.8

10th in YPG at 250.0

And people really care if he sets the sack record. Who cares. If he does these numbers and gets 100 sacks, so what. If we can get 10 wins, great. This is our guy. Let's go baby. 

[RVAskins]

20 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

But...but.. he is an elite QB  

And he was drafted in the FIRST round.

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

And people really care if he sets the sack record. Who cares. If he does these numbers and gets 100 sacks, so what. If we can get 10 wins, great. This is our guy. Let's go baby. 

 

You should care a lot.

 

David Carr holds the record for individual sacks in a year at 76.

It is exceedingly unlikely for Howell to survive the most sacks any human has ever taken with an extra 30 on top.

 

Football is a contact sport and there is always the chance to get hurt, but a guy getting beat up at the rate Howell is getting rag-dolled is all but a lock to get hurt.

Howell does nobody any good in a wheelchair.

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

And people really care if he sets the sack record. Who cares. If he does these numbers and gets 100 sacks, so what. If we can get 10 wins, great. This is our guy. Let's go baby. 

Its unsustainable. He's averaging 5 sacks a game. I think he's lost over 200 yards so far this season off sacks. Percentages are if you take a sack on a drive its probably a drive killer, so that's 5 possessions a game where we're not gonna score(maybe a FG at best). 

 

If he can even cut it to like 3 a game that would be a massive upgrade.

[Stihl89]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Its unsustainable. He's averaging 5 sacks a game. I think he's lost over 200 yards so far this season off sacks. Percentages are if you take a sack on a drive its probably a drive killer, so that's 5 possessions a game where we're not gonna score(maybe a FG at best). 

 

If he can even cut it to like 3 a game that would be a massive upgrade.

And against good teams it’s going to constantly put you behind the sticks. It’s unsustainable against good teams. 

[FuriousD]

21 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

And against good teams it’s going to constantly put you behind the sticks. It’s unsustainable against good teams. 

Hell with the numbers, I’m more concerned about his body than anything.. Losing him to injury would be devastating to the team and his development. Nobody doubts his toughness but he’s not built for the beating he’s taking 

[Thinking Skins]

49 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its unsustainable. He's averaging 5 sacks a game. I think he's lost over 200 yards so far this season off sacks. Percentages are if you take a sack on a drive its probably a drive killer, so that's 5 possessions a game where we're not gonna score(maybe a FG at best). 

 

If he can even cut it to like 3 a game that would be a massive upgrade.

People are acting like he's a finished product, saying things like you can't grow out of it and it can't be taught. I'm like he's a 23v year old player playing the best ball this town has seen in maybe a decade. I'm not going to look for reasons to get mad. 

 

Dude individually kept us in that Chicago game. I'm thankful for that because I wanted to turn it off but after Denver I knew he had it in him and he didn't disappoint. We didn't win but if not for a Slye miss I'd be a lot happier of Friday. 

 

Dude took us down the field against Philly twice. That's a 23 year old. Going toe to toe with the SB team. 

 

Yeah sacks can be drive killers. But look at when he takes them, end of half and end of game. Not just normal times. This is what frustrates me. People act like he's just doing it on a typical first quarter, no it's always in some special situations. I think he can learn from those. 

[Captain Wiggles]

10 hours ago, Tress Is The Way said:

Caleb Williams is a USC QB, there has never been a good USC QB in the NFL. 

 

Carson Palmer was a damn good qb before that devastating knee injury versus Pittsburgh in the playoffs. 🤷‍♂️

 

The fact he came back and played as long as he did with a dead woman's achilles tendon in his knee is still pretty incredible. He was excellent in 2015 for the Cardinals but unfortunately that was really his only great season after the injury. 

[DJHJR86]

22 hours ago, KDawg said:

Some of his throws in the second half were awful? Which ones?

 

The two that were thrown behind McLaurin and the one on third down with about 2 minutes left to go.  Over threw McLaurin and stopped the clock.  He and the offense looked off in the second half.  

[Skinsinparadise]

John Keim rarely preaches or is repetitive about his own opinion, but he's been so on this point:

 

If Howell's weakness is holding on to the ball a but, then actually give him a really good O line.  Factor the players strengths and weakness when building a team

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Curtis Samuel has quietly been one of the best players on our offense.  He's been doing the dirty work for our passing game that the tight end normally handles.  He's on pace for a nice little 800 yard season with close to ten total TDs.  Bieniemy uses him so much better than Scott Turner did.  At least that is one way we've improved.

[DJHJR86]

Alex Smith's QBR in 2018 was 46.9.  Case Keenum's QBR in 2019 was 45.6.  Haskins's QBR in 2020 was 24.8, and Smith's that year was 28.2.  Heinicke in 2021 was 45.8.  Wince in 2022 was 34.4 and Heinicke was 46.5.  Howell is currently 20th in the league this year at 46.8.  IMO, very impressive considering he's only started 7 games.  It does appear that he is on track to be the best QB this team has had since Kirk (for reference, Cousins had the following QBR in 2015: 67.8, 2016: 66.5, 2017: 56.2).  

[KDawg]

52 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

The two that were thrown behind McLaurin and the one on third down with about 2 minutes left to go.  Over threw McLaurin and stopped the clock.  He and the offense looked off in the second half.  

The one behind McLaurin where he hit his cleat was a throwaway. The one on the sideline where he over threw his lead was a bad ball.

Edited October 17, 2023 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

Alex Smith's QBR in 2018 was 46.9.  Case Keenum's QBR in 2019 was 45.6.  Haskins's QBR in 2020 was 24.8, and Smith's that year was 28.2.  Heinicke in 2021 was 45.8.  Wince in 2022 was 34.4 and Heinicke was 46.5.  Howell is currently 20th in the league this year at 46.8.  IMO, very impressive considering he's only started 7 games.  It does appear that he is on track to be the best QB this team has had since Kirk (for reference, Cousins had the following QBR in 2015: 67.8, 2016: 66.5, 2017: 56.2).  

 

That's been Keim's line.  He's been here for the whole Dan era and change and seen a lot of QBs here.  He feels that Howell looks like is the most talented thrower this team has had since Kirk.  He didn't see Alex as having similar arm talent to Kirk or Howell -- his thing was more about managing a game-leadership.  But Keim seems optimistic based on what he hears from coaches and what he saw in camp -- also compares Howell's work ethic to Kirk's. 

 

Some differences from Keim's point of view is that Kirk was more vocal and outgoing than Howell is.  That's interesting because I saw Kirk as also as introverted but apparently not as introverted as Howell.  But Keim also said Kirk would really get down on himself when things didn't go well whereas Howell just shrugs it off. So on that front advantage Howell.

 

Howell IMO has a stronger arm and more mobility than Kirk.  Kirk throws a better deep ball but Howell throws a nice deep ball, too.  Will see.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[philibusters]

12 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Its unsustainable. He's averaging 5 sacks a game. I think he's lost over 200 yards so far this season off sacks. Percentages are if you take a sack on a drive its probably a drive killer, so that's 5 possessions a game where we're not gonna score(maybe a FG at best). 

 

If he can even cut it to like 3 a game that would be a massive upgrade.

 

We have lost 215 sack yards... https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-sacked-yards

[MartinC]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's been Keim's line.  He's been here for the whole Dan era and change and seen a lot of QBs here.  He feels that Howell looks like is the most talented thrower this team has had since Kirk.  He didn't see Alex as having similar arm talent to Kirk or Howell -- his thing was more about managing a game-leadership.  But Keim seems optimistic based on what he hears from coaches and what he saw in camp -- also compares Howell's work ethic to Kirk's. 

 

Some differences from Keim's point of view is that Kirk was more vocal and outgoing than Howell is.  That's interesting because I saw Kirk as also as introverted but apparently not as introverted as Howell.  But Keim also said Kirk would really get down on himself when things didn't go well whereas Howell just shrugs it off. So on that front advantage Howell.

 

Howell IMO has a stronger arm and more mobility than Kirk.  Kirk throws a better deep ball but Howell throws a nice deep ball, too.  Will see.

 

The big knock on Kirk for me was always I didn't trust him in big moments. Or big games. Thats a bit unfair and lacks real depth but for me he just was not 'the guy'. Hes not been for the Vikes either.

 

We dont know how Howell will play in a must win game to make the playoffs or in a playoff game. I look forward to finding out!

[RVAskins]

I still don't get why some fans are still down on Howell. I think his ceiling is very high.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-qb-sam-howell-historic-pace

 

In the first half of their 24-16 win over the Atlanta Falcons in Week 6 the Washington Commanders advanced to 3-3 this year and quarterback Sam Howell advanced to the top of the franchise history book in passing yards. 

With 109 yards through the air in the first half on Sunday, Howell became the passing yards leader in franchise history for the Commanders through seven starts, the team announced. 

[MartinC]

57 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

 

With 109 yards through the air in the first half on Sunday, Howell became the passing yards leader in franchise history for the Commanders through seven starts, the team announced. 

 

I'm going to channel my inner Mike McDaniels here now.

 

I'm sure all through OTAs and training camp Howells prime focus and goal was to own that record after 7 starts. 🙂

[Thinking Skins]

52 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

I still don't get why some fans are still down on Howell. I think his ceiling is very high.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-qb-sam-howell-historic-pace

 

In the first half of their 24-16 win over the Atlanta Falcons in Week 6 the Washington Commanders advanced to 3-3 this year and quarterback Sam Howell advanced to the top of the franchise history book in passing yards. 

With 109 yards through the air in the first half on Sunday, Howell became the passing yards leader in franchise history for the Commanders through seven starts, the team announced. 

Its like I said about the USC talk, this fan base has been burned so they don't want to hope. Sheehan (i think it was him) said it on his show that its easier to bet against somebody becoming a franchise QB because most guys don't - let along fifth rounders. Given that was before he had done much on the field. 

 

Now that he has, fans want to dissect everything because they can see Daniel Jones after his one good year how Zach Wilson is in the league, how Mac Jones is after his one good year, how up and down Baker has been throughout his career, Pickett, etc. There are so many examples of people that come up as counters to what Howell can be. So that we can't bring up the Brees or Wilsons or the Josh Allen's or the elites. 

 

And then the question becomes well can he just be a "mediocre QB" and we're seeing that he's already that. Sacks included. The question before the season was if we had a middle of the pack QB with our defense from last year we could have a playoff team. Now we have a top half of the league QB. and a bottom third of the league defense. 

 

This dude has not reached his peak. These sacks will be corrected. And I think the EB thing will be either a 1 year rental (when they fire Ron) or a long term thing when EB becomes HC and they get a new running game coordinator who aligns with Andy's offense. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

The big knock on Kirk for me was always I didn't trust him in big moments. Or big games. Thats a bit unfair and lacks real depth but for me he just was not 'the guy'. Hes not been for the Vikes either.

 

We dont know how Howell will play in a must win game to make the playoffs or in a playoff game. I look forward to finding out!

 

Kirk has had his moments in big spots but also has certaintly failed in others.  I think the thing that dogs Kirk more than anything is he's a good QB, sometimes very good QB but he's not great.   Kirk isn't going to outduel Mahomes, Rodgers.  He needs a good roster around him, he's not going to carry a team.

 

Although some hate him among our fan base, I still think he got the last laugh.  He actually won a playoff game while this team hasn't done it in 17 years.    He won both head to head games including mounting a comeback in the 4th quarter in the last game. 

 

The dude who botched his contract and according to Keim among others he didn't like -- Bruce Allen got fired in infamy.  This leam was dead last in QBR after he left, did not have a single winning season.  And the idea that he didn't want to be here while didn't seem cool back then and befuddled some of our fans -- really aged well when we learned he was far from alone on that front and dysfunction was much deeper than we even realized back then. 

 

Hopefully the karma has changed with Dan gone and Howell now starting.   If Howell ends up a more clutch version of Kirk, I'd dig that.  Who doesn't want an elite QB but they don't grow on trees.  this organization has struggled to find even good QBs, so if Howell ends up "just" good, I'd be happy with that.  You can win with good QB play as long as they aren't too expensive.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Although some hate him among our fan base, I still think he got the last laugh.  He actually won a playoff game while this team hasn't done it in 17 years.    He won both head to head games including mounting a comeback in the 4th quarter in the last game. 

 

The dude who botched his contract and according to Keim among others he didn't like -- Bruce Allen got fired in infamy.  This leam was dead last in QBR after he left, did not have a single winning season.  And the idea that he didn't want to be here while didn't seem cool back then and befuddled some of our fans -- really aged well when we learned he was far from alone on that front and dysfunction was much deeper than we even realized back then. 

 

I dont hate Kirk. Hes a good QB and seems a good person overall. Quirky - but a decent human being. 

 

My counter to this would be we would have won the same number of Super Bowls with Kirk as without him and we didn't have to pay $190M (that around what he earned from the Vikings) in that process. Allen botched the whole process not som much in not giving Kirk the guaranteed money the Vikes did but in not either tying him up earlier as a long term viable option on a much cheaper deal or getting full value for a good NFL starting QB in a trade. 

 

Getting value in a trade is likely how I would have tried to go so we had draft assets to try to get a QB who could potentially take us to the Super Bowl. We let Kirk go for a ham sandwich and then have been flailing at the QB spot ever since. Until (possibly) now - and even now that is more by luck than strategy. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig