The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[tomwvr]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Dudes the Tonya Harding of the NFL and I don't want hi back.

For what he cost he is well worth it

[Jumbo]

18 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Ummm... if he is resigned, he will be the backup QB and not the starting QB and therefore won't see the field so he wouldn't have to see Jones or Dak again. Your angst is misplaced here. 

 

His coming back would be a bad sign of obviously poor decisions still being a thing in the front office.

 

All arguments for th that I've seen are poorly made. They are either simplistically misapplied "facts" that aren't facts, like "he" just wins, or of wispy and vacuous form like "moxie" or "plays like hair on fire" or unconvincing like "knows the system" or half myth like the greatly exaggerated and overplayed "loved by coaches and teammates"  etc.

 

I don't see any intelligent way anyone with any critical thinking skills who knows and has watched NFL caliber qb play  can view him as anything better than a bottom feeding cellar level cheap backup at best. Yuck and shame on the supporters. 

 

[redskinss]

22 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Ummm... if he is resigned, he will be the backup QB and not the starting QB and therefore won't see the field so he wouldn't have to see Jones or Dak again. Your angst is misplaced here. 

We brought him in as a backup 3 years ago, he started our playoff game.

We resigned him as a backup he started all but one game that year.

We kept him on as a backup he started half the season.

 

He's like a voodoo doll for starting quarterbacks so I have no confidence he'll only be a backup. 

 

That said I would like to see at least one higher ceiling guy as a backup to Howell, if we can get someone like haener in the middle of the draft I'll have much less objection to Heinicke as 2 or 3.

[Spaceman Spiff]

[Koolblue13]

I will celebrate the signing of Chad Henne or Shane Buechele the way they celebrated Jesus coming out the cave if it keeps Sneakers off this active roster.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I will celebrate the signing of Chad Henne or Shane Buechele the way they celebrated Jesus coming out the cave if it keeps Sneakers off this active roster.

Did someone say Shane Buechele?

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

His coming back would be a bad and stupid sign of obviously poor decisions still being a thing in the front office.

 

All arguments for th that I've seen are poorly argued. They are either simplistically misapplied "facts" that aren't facts, like "he" just wins, or of wispy and vacuous form like "moxie" or "plays like hair on fire" or unconvincing like "knows the system" or half myth like the greatly exaggerated and overplayed "loved by coaches and teammates"  etc.

 

I don't see any intelligent way anyone with any critical thinking skills who knows and has watched NFL caliber qb play  can view him as anything better than a bottom feeding cellar level cheap backup at best. Yuck and shame on the supporters. 

 

 

I always had TH playing until end of 22 and a new beginning with a draft selected franchise QB in 23. So far it is trending that way (fingers crossed ). It really doesn't bother me if he comes back or not regardless of how some feel about him. I am not going to lose any sleep over it though. 

 

As for greatly exaggerated that teammates "love him" there was a tweet at the end of the 22 season where some players were lined up to get his signature. So some did "love" him, I guess. 

8 minutes ago, redskinss said:

We brought him in as a backup 3 years ago, he started our playoff game.

We resigned him as a backup he started all but one game that year.

We kept him on as a backup he started half the season.

 

He's like a voodoo doll for starting quarterbacks so I have no confidence he'll only be a backup. 

 

That said I would like to see at least one higher ceiling guy as a backup to Howell, if we can get someone like haener in the middle of the draft I'll have much less objection to Heinicke as 2 or 3.

 

For sure we can get a good backup in the draft what would be ideal. 

[FootballZombie]

Its one thing to make a bad QB move once. To repeatedly make the same bad QB move would be its own magnitude of stupid.

[Jumbo]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

So some did "love" him, I guess. 

 

Yes. "Some" did "love"  him to "some" degree for "some" length of time. Hence my use of the words overplayed and exaggerated as using "all the love" as a real argument.

 

I know this can be like trying to explain alternate side of the street parking to a plate of cranberries but see what I mean? 

 

Here's another way of viewing the last paragraph I wrote in my previous post: 

 

th, even as a backup, overall, in last season's  performances, did not run effectively. He did not pass effectively. His decision making ran from so-so to poor. He lucked out regularly in opponents missing interceptions with numerous bad throws. He chose not to run at times he could have. He was bailed out equally numerous times by Terry playing hero ball. "He" didn't win half the games. Our running game, defense, and Terry were "90%" of why we got what wins we had. Watch the damn film studiously.

 

This isn't rocket surgery but in some cases it might as well be.

 

Just a note fwiw.

 

I do my own (slightly) exaggerated and sometimes more colorful presentations of anti-heinie rhetoric because it's fun for me to write and fun for others and I find over the years that such is good for making a more engaging and humorous discussion. 🙂

 

Sometimes I'm harsh for real when I think it's merited, but most of the time it's for es jollies and jousting for all our entertainment.

 

There are precious few "hivers" that I think ARE NOT typically fine posters and most are great ES'ers in general. And I can take any normal blowback sent my way just fine.🙂

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Spotrac projecting earlier today that Sam Darnold would be headed here -- scared me straight.  It made Heinicke much more palatable to me. 

 

Listening to Keim I got the impression that they really really really want to have the backup Qb cheap.  So the money component is big.  The presumption is Heinicke is cheaper than the standard better pedigreed backup QB. 

 

If their determination is to not pay good money for a backup QB results in a signing I like, I can live with it but I'll have my fingers crossed that Howell can stay healthy considering i've seen enough to feel really strongly that Heinicke as a QB is "meh".   

 

Yes, there are worse backups than him.  But i don't see him as a high end backup.  To me he's an average backup -- dime a dozen type.  

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I will celebrate the signing of Chad Henne or Shane Buechele the way they celebrated Jesus coming out the cave if it keeps Sneakers off this active roster.

Chad Henne retired, so that'd be impressive if Rivera convinced him to come to this S-Show.

[Jumbo]

4 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Chad Henne retired, so that'd be impressive if Rivera convinced him to come to this S-Show.

 

 

If only Brissett would give us some kind of discount and play backup here just cuz he loves what Ron is doing here culture-wise.

 

Sort of do it out of his sense of civic responsibility. 😁😛

[El Mexican]

- Howell

 

- TH

 

- Cheap veteran?

 

I can't see how this QB depth chart is any worse than the ones we've seen around here since 2019.

That would allow us some serious ammo for the draft to invest in OL, TE and LB.

 

Boom. Pallofs here we go! 

[dunfer]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

 

His coming back would be a bad sign of obviously poor decisions still being a thing in the front office.

 

All arguments for th that I've seen are poorly made. They are either simplistically misapplied "facts" that aren't facts, like "he" just wins, or of wispy and vacuous form like "moxie" or "plays like hair on fire" or unconvincing like "knows the system" or half myth like the greatly exaggerated and overplayed "loved by coaches and teammates"  etc.

 

I don't see any intelligent way anyone with any critical thinking skills who knows and has watched NFL caliber qb play  can view him as anything better than a bottom feeding cellar level cheap backup at best. Yuck and shame on the supporters. 

 

Yeah we are viewing him as a cheap backup. Nobody is shouting Hi-na-kee...but thats what youre afraid off, I dont blame you and i cant guarantee it wont happen if beer prices are low...but it wont effect Ron's Resolve. Hes military

[tomwvr]

58 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Yes. "Some" did "love"  him to "some" degree for "some" length of time. Hence my use of the words overplayed and exaggerated as using "all the love" as a real argument.

 

I know this can be like trying to explain alternate side of the street parking to a plate of cranberries but see what I mean? 

 

Here's another way of viewing the last paragraph I wrote in my previous post: 

 

th, even as a backup, overall, in last season's  performances, did not run effectively. He did not pass effectively. His decision making ran from so-so to poor. He lucked out regularly in opponents missing interceptions with numerous bad throws. He chose not to run at times he could have. He was bailed out equally numerous times by Terry playing hero ball. "He" didn't win half the games. Our running game, defense, and Terry were "90%" of why we got what wins we had. Watch the damn film studiously.

 

This isn't rocket surgery but in some cases it might as well be.

 

Just a note fwiw.

 

I do my own (slightly) exaggerated and sometimes more colorful presentations of anti-heinie rhetoric because it's fun for me to write and fun for others and I find over the years that such is good for making a more engaging and humorous discussion. 🙂

 

Sometimes I'm harsh for real when I think it's merited, but most of the time it's for es jollies and jousting for all our entertainment.

 

There are precious few "hivers" that I think ARE NOT typically fine posters and most are great ES'ers in general. And I can take any normal blowback sent my way just fine.🙂

 

 

 

 

I dont want to see the team

spend 10 million on Dalton who looked awful in dallas and a little better last season in NO. If they can get TH for 3-4 mil (would not pay any more than that) .

[Voice_of_Reason]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yes, there are worse backups than him.  But i don't see him as a high end backup.  To me he's an average backup -- dime a dozen type.  

Who was that 7th round pick for the Colts who out played TH for an entire game making his first start?

 

Id take that guy.  Or really any draft pick. Or the QB at Langley High School. 
 

I suppose he’s better than Darnold.  But that might be the list. 
 

If they sign him for virtually the Vet minimum, and then promise to never play him, I guess I’m ok with it.  And they have to draft another guy. 

[tomwvr]

I dont want to see them draft a qb until mid to late rounds. But in no way is Dalton or any other vet qb worth signing as a back up for what it will cost. Either go with 3 young guys or 2 young guys and TH. And no i dont want to see him ever start again without an injury to the two other qbs on the team.

I just dont see the value in signing a vet for what it will cost. 

[zCommander]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Who was that 7th round pick for the Colts who out played TH for an entire game making his first start?

 

The stats from that game don't show he outplayed him though.  

 

Player                   CP/ATT    YDS    TD    INT  RATE
Taylor Heinicke    23/31         279    1        1     98.7
Sam Ehlinger       17/23         201    0        0     100.1

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I love it...he went from being referred to as "[REDACTED]" to being the main topic of the thread lol...

 

And as an aside, I think "[REDACTED]" should remain his name on this thread until he's actually on the team and starts another playoff game for us. 👍 Kind of a superstition thing for me lol...

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Califan007 The Constipated

[“Misdirection”]

Heinicke is objectively awful by most any measure, but god damn it if games aren’t more fun to watch when he’s playing when compared to the drub we’ve put on the field in my lifetime (sans Kirk, RGIII, and I guess, Todd Collins?)
 

He’s not just any train wreck

 

He’s our train wreck

[tmandoug1]

And here we go............

[FootballZombie]

Do you know how much you have to suck for our FO, representing the Siberia of the NFL, to be able to hardball your contract.

 

You'd think the lack of interest from other teams would be a come to the alter moment.

[RabidFan]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Who was that 7th round pick for the Colts who out played TH for an entire game making his first start?

 

Id take that guy.  Or really any draft pick. Or the QB at Langley High School. 
 

I suppose he’s better than Darnold.  But that might be the list. 
 

If they sign him for virtually the Vet minimum, and then promise to never play him, I guess I’m ok with it.  And they have to draft another guy. 

 

What year at Langley HS as I was there for a time?

[method man]

2 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

Yes. "Some" did "love"  him to "some" degree for "some" length of time. Hence my use of the words overplayed and exaggerated as using "all the love" as a real argument.

 

I know this can be like trying to explain alternate side of the street parking to a plate of cranberries but see what I mean? 

 

Here's another way of viewing the last paragraph I wrote in my previous post: 

 

th, even as a backup, overall, in last season's  performances, did not run effectively. He did not pass effectively. His decision making ran from so-so to poor. He lucked out regularly in opponents missing interceptions with numerous bad throws. He chose not to run at times he could have. He was bailed out equally numerous times by Terry playing hero ball. "He" didn't win half the games. Our running game, defense, and Terry were "90%" of why we got what wins we had. Watch the damn film studiously.

 

This isn't rocket surgery but in some cases it might as well be.

 

Just a note fwiw.

 

I do my own (slightly) exaggerated and sometimes more colorful presentations of anti-heinie rhetoric because it's fun for me to write and fun for others and I find over the years that such is good for making a more engaging and humorous discussion. 🙂

 

Sometimes I'm harsh for real when I think it's merited, but most of the time it's for es jollies and jousting for all our entertainment.

 

There are precious few "hivers" that I think ARE NOT typically fine posters and most are great ES'ers in general. And I can take any normal blowback sent my way just fine.🙂

 

 

 

 

 

With a decent OL in 2021 and a worse set of skill players around him, per what I can find, Heinicke finished with a PFF score of 59.4. His score sank to 49.8 this year. As a point of comparison, Wentz was a 70.9 in 2021 in Indy and was a 60.6 here. So both guys had a 10 point dropoff playing behind this OL. A PFF score of 60 is considered average. So, if you give Heinicke a line similar to the one he had in 2021 in terms of quality and you also give him weapons, perhaps he plays closer to that 2021 level. 

 

Seeing that folks like Nathan Peterman, David Blough, Sam Ehlinger, John Wolford and Drew Lock have been lead backups the past two years, those of you who are taking it to the extreme that Heinicke doesn't belong in the NFL and should go to the XFL are just being silly.

[Conn]

52 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

The stats from that game don't show he outplayed him though.  

 

Player                   CP/ATT    YDS    TD    INT  RATE
Taylor Heinicke    23/31         279    1        1     98.7
Sam Ehlinger       17/23         201    0        0     100.1

You can resist replying to a Heinicke post, I promise you that you have the willpower buried deep inside your being