The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Ball Security]

32 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

124 guaranteed versus 28 guaranteed are not the same. We have options to cut him. Wilson also cost the 3rd overall pick as of now. 

You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know.  But none of that relates to what I’m saying.

You said that Carr could command 130-140M G.  I agree.  You say that Wentz can be cut with no dead money.  I agree.

I’m saying that we can sign Carr to a huge contract (like you mention) AND keep the 23 cap hit less than what Wentz’s cap hit was in 22 and what it’s scheduled to be in 23.  
 

I believe that puts us in a more competitive state than keeping Wentz, but I do recognize the perceived difficulty in picking up Turner’s offense  (as indicated by the Harvard grad).

[Koolblue13]

I'd bank on Carson and push as much money down the road that you can. Make Danny think you're going to screw the next owner with bad contracts, extend everyone and sign some quality FAs and then next season when Dan is gone, go win a superbowl and let the new competent owners FO work out the rest. 

[LD0506]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd bank on Carson and push as much money down the road that you can. Make Danny think you're going to screw the next owner with bad contracts, extend everyone and sign some quality FAs and then next season when Dan is gone, go win a superbowl and let the new competent owners FO work out the rest. 

 

Well damn

Glad to see there's a plan

[SoCalSkins]

8 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know.  But none of that relates to what I’m saying.

You said that Carr could command 130-140M G.  I agree.  You say that Wentz can be cut with no dead money.  I agree.

I’m saying that we can sign Carr to a huge contract (like you mention) AND keep the 23 cap hit less than what Wentz’s cap hit was in 22 and what it’s scheduled to be in 23.  
 

I believe that puts us in a more competitive state than keeping Wentz, but I do recognize the perceived difficulty in picking up Turner’s offense  (as indicated by the Harvard grad).

How is locking in 125 mil in guaranteed salary putting us in a better position? Particularly backloading the cap hits in 24 and 25 when the new ownership group and possibly new front office is in charge. 
 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by SoCalSkins

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I agree Carr makes us a better team. My only concern is the cost. What do we give up and at wqhat salary? Can;t give up both a bunch of picks and then load up on a $40M/yr salary. But feels like thgat's what it will take as there will be more than one bidder. 

 

I do agree the Raiders have squandered a very good QB. Is he great? No. But he is very good. Colin makes several good points about multiple systems etc. Unless us with Cousins, looks like they are positioned to at least get something for him. Will see what the market dictates. 

 
Agree. Cost to me is paramount when it comes to Carr, Ditto all other options. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[The Sisko]

2 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Just like you can't see the oak tree, if all that you examine is the acorn that lies in front of you.

 

So it is true that a man is not merely the sum of all the things he has done up until now. Occasionally potential is realized and metamorphosis is achieved.

 

Put another way, being and becoming are not the same thing.

 

At our best  we are all engaged in the process of becoming.

 

I raise a hearty toast to Carson's eminent becoming!

 

"We are spirits in the material world".

Sting

I was expecting you to follow that up by saying “Now, take the pebble from my hand Grasshopper.”

[Ball Security]

33 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

How is locking in 125 mil in guaranteed salary putting us in a better position? Particularly backloading the cap hits in 24 and 25 when the new ownership group and possibly new front office is in charge. 
 

 

Okay.  If you don’t think Carr would be a good option in 24-26 and want the new ownership come in with a clean slate in 24 and figure out how to find a qb from scratch then, yeah, Carr is not a good option.  If you are of the opinion that this roster is close in the near term and want to take advantage of this defense while we can keep it together and have a really good, not elite, QB to handle it over the next 4-5 years, then going with Carr is a really attractive solution.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Redwards said:.  But as Kiem has stated, QB is not on our radar this offseason.  They are going to restructure Carson, make Howell the backup and try and resign TH.  This would make me want to vomit if not for the ownership change.  Next year is a waste already but at least Ron isn't going to make another huge mistake chasing some burnout QB again for even more draft picks and $.  Just gotta ride out another lame year for this club.  2024 offseason is really THE offseason to watch.   

I listened to all of Keim’s podcasts, read his stuff on ESPN and listen to most of his interviews, and I didn’t hear or read anything like that. Is this something he said today? Traveled up to the game so catching up. So maybe I missed it and if so it’s interesting news because that’s a new twist.

 

Only thing I’ve seen close to that is the article I posted a few days ago where Keim said they prefer not to go fishing for a QB again. 
 

In his radio interviews, Keim has said they’d love for Wentz to shine now and in turn bring him back but suggested that’s far from set in stone and even talked a little about off season QB possibilities 

[Skinsinparadise]

Catching up with stuff on Twitter just now. I gather I think I know where the absolute stuff is coming from.
 

Riggo Rag took that Keim article and ignored the modifiers in the article and regurgitated the Keim article as if Keim expressed those points in absolutes. He didn’t though.

 

Be one thing if all I knew about Keim’s takes is just that ESPN article alone. But I’ve heard him elaborate on the topic a lot of late. 
 

In short, based on what he has said the impression I got is you bet they’d love for Wentz to be the answer but they aren’t locked into that idea yet. These games matter to decide that.  And as far as Heinicke goes that’s not a lock either, 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I still can’t believe that anyone is hanging onto the idea that Wentz might be the answer here. He was beyond atrocious this season and it feels like wishful thinking to me. Hope I’m wrong. 

[allannis]

No matter who the next quarterback is the OL needs attention.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[BigDibbs31]

33 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I still can’t believe that anyone is hanging onto the idea that Wentz might be the answer here. He was beyond atrocious this season and it feels like wishful thinking to me. Hope I’m wrong. 

Agree 100%. He was horrible for most of the time. Even the Jags game he threw two awful INTs to try as hard as possible to blow the game. Against Detroit he was almost solely responsible for getting down big and Detroit has an atrocious defense. Philly and Dallas he was really bad. Titans was supposedly one of his good game and we only scored 17 points with an INT at the goal line to blow a chance to win the game. Bears he had a broken finger but one of the worst offensive games of the year. 

 

But I'll be the first to hope that they finish the season 2-0 with him playing great and potentially steal a win or two in the playoffs. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by BigDibbs31

[CommanderInTheRye]

@Koolblue13 love the creative thread title adjustments you make as events warrant.

 

In particular, "the Heini hole is wiped" is inspired.

 

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

@Koolblue13 love the creative thread title adjustments you make as events warrant.

 

In particular, "the Heini hole is wiped" is inspired.

 

 

It's honest work. Thanks for noticing. 

[Mooka]

We should just sign Geno Smith/Bridewater/Brissett and gamble on Hooker from Tenn in the draft. (Geno might cost too much and will probably resign with Seattle anyway)  At this point I'd take Minshew or Mayfield too. Mike White? 

 

I'm 100% behind doing anything you can at QB so I won't hate trading for Carr or trading up in the draft but I see those as unlikely considering our current FO situation.

 

If I made a prediction, I'd personally say Carr busts here but based solely on our own franchise history.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 
Agree. Cost to me is paramount when it comes to Carr, Ditto all other options. 

It’s interesting, I care less about the cost now than I ever have in the past.  Watching the Rams and Saints basically manipulate the cap any which way for years, I think it’s totally possible to do anything they want to do with any QB option, at least for the next 4-5 years. You have to pay the piper eventually, but if the new owner has the desire to spend cash, the cap becomes much more irrelevant.

 

I used to be much more cap-centric and fiscally conservative against the cap.  However the way the NFL has changed I think just getting the right guys is most important.  

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It’s interesting, I care less about the cost now than I ever have in the past.  Watching the Rams and Saints basically manipulate the cap any which way for years, I think it’s totally possible to do anything they want to do with any QB option, at least for the next 4-5 years. You have to pay the piper eventually, but if the new owner has the desire to spend cash, the cap becomes much more irrelevant.

 

I used to be much more cap-centric and fiscally conservative against the cap.  However the way the NFL has changed I think just getting the right guys is most important.  

I think we have a good situation right now if Wentz restructures and returns to form. I know that's 2 big 'ifs", but if he does, it allows us to keep stacking talent, while we find and groom a young QB. Kinda like the Eagles and ah,,,Wentz. Or even the 49ers. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think we have a good situation right now if Wentz restructures and returns to form. I know that's 2 big 'ifs", but if he does, it allows us to keep stacking talent, while we find and groom a young QB. Kinda like the Eagles and ah,,,Wentz. Or even the 49ers. 

Wentz will restructure.  Without any guaranteed money, we could literally cut him on cut-down day if he’s not impressive in training camp for no cap hit.  There isn’t any way he or his agent want that possibility out there.  
 

the terms of the restructure are completely unknown because we need to see how the next 2, and hopefully 3 or 4 games play out. If Wentz is outstanding and is clearly playing well it will be different than if he’s sortof ho-hum and average and the the offense still sputters.  
 

I’m convinced all y’all who are talking options are going to be massively disappointed because it’s going to be Wentz and Howell and probably another late round draft pick.  I expect Heinicke to get an offer elsewhere and leave.  

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

Wentz will restructure.  Without any guaranteed money, we could literally cut him on cut-down day if he’s not impressive in training camp for no cap hit.  There isn’t any way he or his agent want that possibility out there.  
 

the terms of the restructure are completely unknown because we need to see how the next 2, and hopefully 3 or 4 games play out. If Wentz is outstanding and is clearly playing well it will be different than if he’s sortof ho-hum and average and the the offense still sputters.  
 

I’m convinced all y’all who are talking options are going to be massively disappointed because it’s going to be Wentz and Howell and probably another late round draft pick.  I expect Heinicke to get an offer elsewhere and leave.  

I'm expecting Wentz Howell and Haener or some other late rounder also.

 

I know Wentz will. I just mean how he'll agree to do it I guess.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I just saw an XFL commercial. I wonder if any of the teams are looking for a backup QB because I know a guy who used to be a former XFL backup QB who is going to be looking for a new gig….

Edited December 31, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:
 

I’m convinced all y’all who are talking options are going to be massively disappointed because it’s going to be Wentz and Howell and probably another late round draft pick.  I expect Heinicke to get an offer elsewhere and leave.  

Speaking for myself, I wouldn’t be disappointed if that happened because it would mean he played well. 
 

While I think that’s possible, I am not betting on it just yet. If I was forced to bet on this I suspect Wentz’s play ends up mixed. Maybe one good game and one “meh”. Or two average games. 
 

So in short, I’d bet against Wentz passing this test but I am not hardcore on it.  I would be surprised but not shocked if he takes them to the playoffs and plays well in the post season. But if it happens I’d be elated let alone disappointed. 

[FootballZombie]

Dude would have to ball out of his absolute mind to convince me not to try and upgrade over a span of just two or three games.

 

It would not take anything to get me to restructure him as a baseline so you have something moving into next year, he would basically have to look bad for me to drop that pathway.

 

[illone]

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I still can’t believe that anyone is hanging onto the idea that Wentz might be the answer here. He was beyond atrocious this season and it feels like wishful thinking to me. Hope I’m wrong. 

 

 

oh its definitely wishful thinking on my part. 
 

its the part of my fandom that I hate with a passion, but have also fully embraced. 
 

if the dude is wearing the B&G i’m gonna cheer for him to succeed and turn his career around. 
 

unless its albert haynesworth. **** that guy. 
 

 

[88Comrade2000]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am typically not with Colin’s takes but good summary IMO here 

 

 

 

Uh, there’s still a chance all 3 make the playoffs this year.