The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I know it's not about Carr, but I thought it belonged in this thread anyway lol...

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, CommanderCarson said:

was with Heineke the whole ride and still think the hate is way over the top. Those talking about him not belonging on the roster next year as if he didn’t at least somewhat revive our season? Pshhh.

Nobody hates Taylor, and what’s frustrating is those of us with eyes wide open who CLEARLY see his limitations and the limitations he places on the offense, over an almost 2 year sample size, are labeled as hating Taylor.  Which really isn’t the case.

 

I don’t want him on the roster next year for basically one reason: they drafted Sam Howell who by then should be capable of at least running the TH playbook, which is run the ball on virtually every first and second down and throw about 23-25 passes a game.  
 

That’s the way you have to play offense with TH.  If that’s the case, and you have a more talented guy you just drafted, they should be able to do the same thing.  There isn’t a reason to bring him back. 
 

Now, if the staff believes Howell still isn’t at the level to hand the ball off 40 times, throw 10 screens and 10 actual pass plays a game, that’s an entirely different issue.  
 

I hope some QB needy team throws $15m over 2 years to TH with the first year guaranteed.  Basically the same contract Mitch got.  Arizona would seem to be an obvious location because Murray might not play next year and they need somebody.  
 

But it shouldn’t be here.  He’s not a starter and shouldn’t be our bridge guy, and we should already have our backup. 

[Conn]

This is a human being problem more than just a sports fan problem—but we tend to take in and file away limited information, overweight it, extrapolate it into an opinion that’s too strongly held, and then carry that for years until we’re confronted with overwhelming evidence that we’re incorrect. And some people aren’t even capable of participating in that last part, and never revise their opinions.

 

In sports, it can mean that someone will see an otherwise good player have a poor game in a national time slot and carry that impression for the rest of their life until they have a reason to question it. Just as an example. 
 

One thing I think I’ve learned that I value as I get older: Having opinions is great. Having strong opinions even is great, have conviction. But hold them weakly so that you can incorporate new information with less effort. Keep a flexible mind. There is not more inherent worth to an opinion that’s been held longer—if anything, those are the thoughts we should make a point to examine closest. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Conn

[Doctorfro]

I can only imagine the backlash that will come if Wentz screws the pooch against the Browns. Holy smokes. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, Doctorfro said:

I can only imagine the backlash that will come if Wentz screws the pooch against the Browns. Holy smokes. 

That is going to happen no matter who starts at QB and the team loses.

 

For me, I’d be much more disappointed in Ron if he didn’t make the switch and lost with TH.

Edited December 30, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Skinsinparadise]

Sheehan talking about Carr in his latest podcast, he is not the big fan of Carr that Cooley is but he sees him as an upgrade over what we got and likes the idea as do I of adding a good QB to a roster he deems to be the best we've had in a long time.

 

To clarify my position, its far from Carr or bust.  But everything being equal, I'd like at least an average caliber QB at a non exoribitant price. 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[oraphus]

I was good with Carr prior to this year but after watching him **** the bed repeatedly... forget it. Why do we want another below average QB? Gruden tried to get rid of him repeatedly and it only took Mcdaniels one year to get rid of him. he is just not that good. Rogers or draft

[Ball Security]

56 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan talking about Carr in his latest podcast, he is not the big fan of Carr that Cooley is but he sees him as an upgrade over what we got and likes the idea as do I of adding a good QB to a roster he deems to be the best we've had in a long time.

 

To clarify my position, its far from Carr or bust.  But everything being equal, I'd like at least an average caliber QB at a non exoribitant price. 

 

 

 

If I’m Carr, Washington is an attractive destination.  From this list, it would be us, NYJ.  Maybe Tampa and Tenn.  Playing in the SuperDome with Olave would be nice, but I believe they have major cap issues.

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, oraphus said:

I was good with Carr prior to this year but after watching him **** the bed repeatedly... forget it. Why do we want another below average QB? Gruden tried to get rid of him repeatedly and it only took Mcdaniels one year to get rid of him. he is just not that good. Rogers or draft

 

If "we" thought he was a below average QB, I'd agree.  Looks like some on this thread think he's below average.  Most don't.  I can't think of any personnel guys, scouts or even national media saying he's below average, or for that matter even saying he's just average maybe a straggler or two I missed.  

 

As for Gruden kept on wanting to get rid of him.  Not sure about that.  Story came out this year tha Gruden turned down Brady who wanted to come to Vegas back when he had Carr.  Keim who is pretty good with insider info said last off season that he thought that there was a shot that they'd trade Carr because from what he heard it was Gruden who was Carr's biggest fan in that building and now that he's gone he's lost his big advocate.  Jay Gruden talked about his brother digging Carr, Jay loves Carr himself as a player. 

 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ufcs-dana-white-tom-brady-rob-gronkowski-deal-to-raiders-in-2020-nixed-by-jon-gruden-he-didnt-want-him/#:~:text=But according to Rob Gronkowski,ahead of the 2020 season.

 

"You're killing me, man," Gruden said, via the Review-Journal. "We love our quarterback. Our quarterback's a really good player, Derek Carr. I want to reiterate that to everybody here in Vegas. We've got a good, young quarterback, and the film, the statistics and analytics prove it.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Jumbo]

what  i read is the "heads up heinie" peeps continuing their seriously crippled qb analyses in general

 

pretty on brand for the cognitive slop they often featured to twist themselves into clown pretzels exaggerating heinie but hold every other qb to much more demanding standards and do so equally incompetently 

 

lower level qb cults are the worst 

 

and we actually have the one guy who says he thinks the hive was imaginary and that he's never seen it 🙃

 

but these guys qb issues definitely aren't heinies fault 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

lower level qb cults are the worst 

 

and we actually have the one guy who says he thinks the hive was imaginary and that he's never seen it 🙃

Do you understand the restraint I’ve exhibited in not engaging? 🤣

 

 

Also, the way some in our fanbase talk about salaries, you’d think they were the ones having to cut the checks.

 

Beyond that, I said this at the end of last season and it still rings true today.  We could take the $20M+ minimum in savings we get with Heinicke’s salary and buy players with it and it won’t matter because he’s simply not good enough, and a few more players/weapons/lineman aren’t going to change that.

[Voice_of_Reason]

22 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

lower level qb cults are the worst 

Hive or Cult?

 

Which was worse?

[NoCalMike]

I was intrigued with Carr one of the previous 3-4 times he was supposedly being moved from by the Raiders.  I always felt that while he wasn't in the top tier, he definitely had the "it" factor gene in his play.  I think he is definitely an upgrade over any QB on the roster currently (Sam Howell development potential aside) but I also am not sure how big of a contract I am offering him at this stage of his career to find out.   I do think if Carr and Wentz both hit the market Carr would be significantly more expensive to bring in than getting Wentz back, but the coaches may like enough about Carr to deem it worth it?

[Captain Wiggles]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Hive or Cult?

 

Which was worse?

 

Cult. He ever even play in a regular season game for an NFL team? 

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

I know it's not about Carr, but I thought it belonged in this thread anyway lol...

That should be allowed. You can Carr y on.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That should be allowed. You can Carr y on.

 

LOL!!...Kudos, sir...

 

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

LOL!!...Kudos, sir...

 

I've really been in the zone since I got off all the pain killers and upped my delicious adderall prescription. 

 

Thank you. You know how I like to keep threads on track. So, back to the Carr talk. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

After some careful consideration over an extra large kale, wheat grass, butter pecan ice cream, prune juice and Jack Daniels "healthy" smoothie I have decided to join this year's great off season crusade:

 

I have enlisted to COMMAND the front lines in the sacred Carr or bust campaign of 2023.

 

This will be the offseason QB acquisition war to end all offseason QB acquisition wars!

 

May God have mercy on those who oppose us, for we shall surely show none.

 

 

 

Masked guy on left: "Pack of dirty hive members 700 yards at 2 O'Clock!"

 

Masked guy on the right: "Roger that. Mowing 'em down!"

 

 

 

 

"So it begins..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

----

 

Join with us now and enjoy a premium leadership spot directing the battle rather than risking getting drafted and sent as cannon fodder into the front lines.

 

 

.

Edited December 30, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Jumbo]

27 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Hive or Cult?

 

Which was worse?

 

 

cult was far larger here and was worse, but message boards were much more populated too

 

i think the hive pound for pound was/is generally competitive in quality of posting but memory on something like that can be affected by time that's passed

 

none of it is heinie' s fault...and other than the resistance to running he seemed to develop, at least heinie gave it his all

 

i can never get too enthused about his level of play or hovering around a .500 level of w/l as a staple, no matter what feel good stories are spun up by fans or media

 

i can feel good about the people in those stories when the stories are accurate and not manufactured, but i don't celebrate that level of play

 

 

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yep the logic is super solid.  Taylor beat Rodgers, too

 

 That was me being factious and doing a play on your morning coffee.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

After some careful consideration over an extra large kale, wheat grass, butter pecan ice cream, prune juice and Jack Daniels "healthy" smoothie I have decided to join this year's great off season crusade:

 

I have enlisted to COMMAND the front lines in the sacred Carr or bust campaign of 2023.

 

This will be the qb war to end all QB  wars!

 

May God have mercy on those who oppose us, for we shall surely show none.

 

 

"So it begins..."

 

 

 

 

----

 

Join with us now and enjoy a premium leadership spot directing the battle rather than risking getting drafted and sent as cannon fodder into the front lines.

 

 

 

 

I'll say for those who don't want Carr here.  Two things

 

A.  I am not an expert by any stretch but i did spend time exploring Carr, upsides, downsides, including digesting takes from people miles smarter than me about football to say the least who studied Carr.  I know how to slam Carr.  I even did it on this thread here and there but I am afraid to give the Carr haters fuel.  They are struggiling IMO right now with those criticisms so its been pretty easy for me, or at least it feels easy to me to scud missle that stuff down.  So I am not going to help them. 😀

 

B.  The attack narratives on Carr here feel very similar to the attacks 2 years ago on Stafford.  Like on Carr, I had to spend a lot of time defending Stafford.  And this team ultimately chased Stafford.  I got no doubt that this team was interested in Carr last off season judging by Keim's podcasts.  So all these people taking shots at Carr, might be speaking it into existence.  The more time I spend here defending Carr the more I think they will chase him.

 

And again i am far from Carr or bust this off season.   But the IMO unfair criticism is pushing me into wanting him more. 

7 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

 That was me being factious and doing a play on your morning coffee.

 

 

I know.  I wouldn't have posted the Wilson gif if I thought you were serious.  But I know some here probably thought it was so my post trird to cover both audiences.  The Carr hate seems a bit deep from some. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[CommanderCarson]

This thread is actually a real life comedy to me. I went back like 5-6 pages just to make sure and there’s nothing but mostly positive and supporting posts regarding Wentz, a whole bunch of Derek Carr, and some general discussion regarding the opportunity Wentz has and some ways it can play out.

 

But I keep reading about cults and hives. I think the “hive” is a WAY bigger thing outside of this thread, I’ll put it that way. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

[CommanderInTheRye]

Yeah, SIP!

 

I was kinda lukewarm meh-ish on getting Carr until I started reading some of the negative attacks here and elsewhere.

 

Which along with my "healthy" smoothie and a handful of reds ultimately forced me to take a stand for freedom and liberty of the oppressed.

 

So I marched straight to the recruiting center this morning and signed on as a commissioned officer in  the "Carr Corp".

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know.  I wouldn't have posted the Wilson gif if I thought you were serious.  But I know some here probably thought it was.  The Carr hate seems a bit deep from some. 

 

I justed wanted to make sure since I didn't put a lol at the end. lol

 

As for Carr and getting him last year probably would have been better than Wentz. But Carr was not available. I wasn't too high on Carr either and would have liked Jimmy G. instead. Which I said I was okay with if TH is not going to be the starting QB. I also said no to Wilson (sure most laughed at me) since I noticed a decline in his play. Didn't want Turbs or any other backup QBs as well. 

 

Now for 23 I feel Wentz might be the better option for the fact that he will have a whole year in the same offense and with a stout running game with a better D. I supposed you could stick Carr but continuity and chemistry to me makes more sense even if we don't win the last two games. Wentz needs to have a strong showing though or else back to clean slate again.