The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[FootballZombie]

Absolute absurd amount of money to set on fire.

 

If he signs somewhere cheap someone will have a steal.

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I can completely agree with those 2 groupings.

I can see why some would put Maye in a tier by himself above Daniels, do to his arm strength and potential projection.

 

what I don’t see is a Caleb 1a to Drake 1b situation, some may feel this is the case and people are entitled to their own opinions. 

In my head, unless something happens to change my mind, the draft starts at #2 because they Bears are taking Williams.  

[CapsSkins]

Schefter saying we’re open to trading down is just him carrying water for Peters to stay in his good graces. Remember, he called Bruce Allen his “editor”. He’s a mercenary who does what needs to be done to retain access.

 

Daniels not getting measured at combine = he’s underweight. I’m assuming we’ll measure him when he comes to Commie Park on an official visit, yes? We’ll get Caleb’s medicals then, too.

[ExoDus84]

11 minutes ago, illone said:

 

you gotta really hate a guy to pay him that much to go away… jeebus is right. 

 

I really wish somebody...anybody...hated me that much.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

I understand people would hate it but now both Adam Schefter and Ian Rappaport have alluded to us trading back in the draft? 

imo they’re hearing from sources with other teams that we’re answering calls and doing our research on offers. Can almost guarantee they’re hearing nothing from our FO.

 

So that’s what you’d expect regardless of our intentions. That they’d answer the phone and hear people out. 

[mac8887]

34 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

  

It's just nonsense that there is anything like a "significant amount of people placing Maye on Williams level" on this board.

 

There are times when people making comments about "the board" are challenged by staff to prove their claim using direct quotes, with their membership possibly on the line. 

 

I'm not trying to "give you a hard time."

 

You often don't show accurate understanding of posts you respond to, or in your summarizations of entire discussions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don’t want to upset anyone, but I believe I quoted him in my post.

 

He posted a tier list that had

Tier 1 Williams/May

Tier 2 Daniel, McCarthy, Penix and Nix

Tier 3 the rest.

 

 

 

All I was intending to do with my post was to challenge the idea that Maye belongs in the same tier as Williams, with Daniels behind Maye. In a completely different tier than Maye.

 

All I was stating is that many posters here clearly believe that Maye is closer to Caleb, than Daniels is to Maye, and my pushback was in most national and regional media, it’s Williams going #1, with Maye and Daniels vying to be the second overall pick. Making Caleb in a tier by himself.

 

Im sorry if it came off different than that, I will try to be more specific with my posts. 

 

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

In my head, unless something happens to change my mind, the draft starts at #2 because they Bears are taking Williams.  

I completely agree 100%, unlike some others, I’m just completely unsure what the team would do, and even more unsure what I would do if I were in Peters position. I just hope whatever they do, they get it right.

Edited March 4 by mac8887

[illone]

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Schefter saying we’re open to trading down is just him carrying water for Peters to stay in his good graces. Remember, he called Bruce Allen his “editor”. He’s a mercenary who does what needs to be done to retain access.

 

Exactly right. 

 

I like shefty, but he is just doing right by his sources and following instructions. This is the time of year where he is doing the back scratching… if he does the right thing GMAP will throw him something later. 
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, mac8887 said:

It really seams that the only place where you can find a significant amount of people placing Maye on Williams level, is on this board. In the national and local media, you may have an outlier here and there, but for the vast majority, Caleb is on an entire different level. Though it does seem that Maye and Daniels are projected by most to be higher than McCarthy, Nix, and Penix

 

Trying to recall how many people here like Maye over Caleb.  One person comes to mind.  Maybe 2?  Actually ironically you find more of that take outside the board than here let alone this is the "only" place where you'd find it.

 

You got more ironically in the draft world doing it -- Hasselbeck, Nat Trice, Dilfer.  At points Brugler, Cummings and Sikema had Maye as #1 but I noticed they go with Cleab lately as #1 in their mocks.

 

This thread is VERY friendly to Caleb.  As to Maye over Caleb, from what I noticed that's more outside this thread than here.

 

To preempt anyone attacking me.  I am also and have been consistently Caleb > Maye.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.on3.com/college/north-carolina-tar-heels/news/trent-dilfer-breaks-down-what-makes-unc-qb-drake-maye-special-2024-nfl-draft/

Dilfer had a lot to say about Maye in a Sports Illustrated piece by Albert Breer. He said that USC’s Caleb Williams is going to take a lot of the spotlight from him even though, with his skillset, Maye could make the case as the No. 1 overall pick in other draft classes.

“I have nothing bad to say about Drake. But it’s different now. This is not apples to apples,” Dilfer said. “Drake Maye has what you call the gift of smooth. Drake, yes, has good horsepower. Yes, has good twitch. But, really, his gift is making hard things look easy.”

“He’s very fluid, he’s very smooth, he’s a good processor. He has good athletic traits, not great,” continued Dilfer. “More of a wing forward in basketball where Caleb is the dynamic scorer. Because of Caleb and because of how notable he is? Drake’s not going to get the attention that he would’ve gotten from other drafts. Because I think he’d be No. 1 in other drafts.

From there, Dilfer spoke with Breer about comparisons for Maye at the next level. That’s where he continued his high praise as he named three quarterbacks who are among who many believe are within the Top-10 at the position in the league today.

 

“You’re just going to hear a lot of (Justin) Herbert and Josh Allen. You’re going to hear a lot of that when the evaluators start evaluating,” said Dilfer. “He’s a big guy but he’s really, really fluid, really smooth.”

 

 

 

 

 

PFF.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-drake-maye-top-pick-2024-nfl-draft

Why Drake Maye belongs as a top pick in the 2024 NFL Draft

Maye also performed well across the two-year sample in other PFF-centric stable projection metrics. He posted a 95.3 clean-pocket passing grade and a 94.2 mark on standard dropbacks (no RPOs, no play action, no rollouts, no scramble drills). With no play action, he recorded a 92.7 figure. And his negatively graded throw rate was 14.8%, which placed him in the 76th percentile.

Looking at quarterback performance over the middle of the field tells us a lot. Attacking between the numbers and 10-19 yards downfield consistently yields some of the highest expected points added figures. Having a quarterback who is willing and successful enough to threaten the middle of the field puts a lot of stress on defenses, forcing them into tough decisions in how they deploy their safeties and linebackers.

A two-year sample size shows once again that Maye is not only in Daniels and Williams' tier, but also that he is better in many categories. From 2022-2023, Maye’s 102 attempts targeting the intermediate part of the middle of the field were more than Williams’ 83 and Daniels’ 71. Maye’s five big-time throws also bested Williams’ one and Daniel’s zero. The North Carolina signal-caller made three turnover-worthy plays compared to Williams’ three and Daniels’ four, but due to Maye having more attempts over the middle, his turnover-worthy play percentage in this area was the lowest of the three. He also had the highest passer rating, the most first downs and the lowest time to throw.

Edited March 4 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

He also pretty much said - don’t pay attention to the rumors from the combine. To my recollection the main story there was us favouring Maye at #2……

Yes. Because he’s saying that even if we end up taking Maye, it’s not because we already knew we were going to at the combine. Because the rumors are fake and no one has been allowed a clue as to what our FO is actually thinking. He’s warning against believing there’s any set plan already—not against any specific narrative that may or may not end up being correct for the wrong reasons. 

[WashingtonRedWolves]

2 hours ago, mh86 said:

I don’t know much, but last night I watched LSU vs ole Miss and Oregon vs UNC (2022). Don’t think this was Mayes best game, whereas that was one of Daniels.

Daniels played a great game, but it looked so easy for him due to the talent on offense. Clean pockets, wide open receivers. LSUs defense didn’t do the offense any favors as they were down two TDs the whole first half. Daniels did stay calm and kept the team rolling for the win. He made a few off platform throws that I was impressed with. I think he’s got better accuracy than Maye and has a tight quick release. 

 

Maye made some inaccurate throws that made me scratch my head. He’s not as good at making people miss as Daniels, but he’s got some wheels.. his receivers were blanketed the entire game and you can see the difference in talent. I can only recall 2-3 plays where he had a guy uncovered or open. Maye did drive the team down for a field goal to increase the lead, but nix and team scored, leaving about 15 seconds or so on the clock. 
 

To say maye has good or acceptable talent around him is an overstatement. Watch the games. Those guys are rarely ever open, no separation, and zero play making ability. maye is dropping it in for them to make a play and they just fail over and over. I saw the frustration a few times during the game. 
 

After watching those games I’d still be happy with either player, but I worry about both.

So this was an unranked UNC vs #11 Oregon last year? Just want to make sure I’m evaluating the talent chasm between the 2 teams correctly. And Ole Miss/LSU this year?

[mac8887]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Trying to recall how many people here like Maye over Caleb.  One person comes to mind.  Maybe 2?  Actually ironically you find more of it outside the board than here.

 

You got more ironically in the draft world doing it -- Hasselbeck, Nat Trice, Dilfer.  At points Brugler, Cummings and Sikema had Maye as #1 but I noticed they go with Cleab lately as # in their mocks.

 

This thread is VERY friendly to Caleb.  As to Maye over Caleb, from what I noticed that's more outside this thread than here.

 

to preempt anyone attacking me.  I am also and have been consistently Caleb > Maye.  But want to remind people that its really outside of this thread more so than here that have more people picking Maye but still most pick Caleb by a good margin. 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.on3.com/college/north-carolina-tar-heels/news/trent-dilfer-breaks-down-what-makes-unc-qb-drake-maye-special-2024-nfl-draft/

Dilfer had a lot to say about Maye in a Sports Illustrated piece by Albert Breer. He said that USC’s Caleb Williams is going to take a lot of the spotlight from him even though, with his skillset, Maye could make the case as the No. 1 overall pick in other draft classes.

“I have nothing bad to say about Drake. But it’s different now. This is not apples to apples,” Dilfer said. “Drake Maye has what you call the gift of smooth. Drake, yes, has good horsepower. Yes, has good twitch. But, really, his gift is making hard things look easy.”

“He’s very fluid, he’s very smooth, he’s a good processor. He has good athletic traits, not great,” continued Dilfer. “More of a wing forward in basketball where Caleb is the dynamic scorer. Because of Caleb and because of how notable he is? Drake’s not going to get the attention that he would’ve gotten from other drafts. Because I think he’d be No. 1 in other drafts.

From there, Dilfer spoke with Breer about comparisons for Maye at the next level. That’s where he continued his high praise as he named three quarterbacks who are among who many believe are within the Top-10 at the position in the league today.

 

“You’re just going to hear a lot of (Justin) Herbert and Josh Allen. You’re going to hear a lot of that when the evaluators start evaluating,” said Dilfer. “He’s a big guy but he’s really, really fluid, really smooth.”

 

 

 

 

 

PFF.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-drake-maye-top-pick-2024-nfl-draft

Why Drake Maye belongs as a top pick in the 2024 NFL Draft

Maye also performed well across the two-year sample in other PFF-centric stable projection metrics. He posted a 95.3 clean-pocket passing grade and a 94.2 mark on standard dropbacks (no RPOs, no play action, no rollouts, no scramble drills). With no play action, he recorded a 92.7 figure. And his negatively graded throw rate was 14.8%, which placed him in the 76th percentile.

Looking at quarterback performance over the middle of the field tells us a lot. Attacking between the numbers and 10-19 yards downfield consistently yields some of the highest expected points added figures. Having a quarterback who is willing and successful enough to threaten the middle of the field puts a lot of stress on defenses, forcing them into tough decisions in how they deploy their safeties and linebackers.

A two-year sample size shows once again that Maye is not only in Daniels and Williams' tier, but also that he is better in many categories. From 2022-2023, Maye’s 102 attempts targeting the intermediate part of the middle of the field were more than Williams’ 83 and Daniels’ 71. Maye’s five big-time throws also bested Williams’ one and Daniel’s zero. The North Carolina signal-caller made three turnover-worthy plays compared to Williams’ three and Daniels’ four, but due to Maye having more attempts over the middle, his turnover-worthy play percentage in this area was the lowest of the three. He also had the highest passer rating, the most first downs and the lowest time to throw.

I never said anyone thought that Maye was better than caleb. I’m fairly certain that almost everyone here has Caleb over Maye.

 

I said many have them on the same level.

maybe not a majority, but quite a bit see it as a 

1a Caleb, 1b Maye

2 Daniels

3 McCarthy, nix, and penix

 

I was just trying to push back on that, because I don’t see Maye as a tier above Daniels, on the same tier as Caleb.

[SoCalSkins]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Given your track record of getting literally everything wrong, I'm considering going to Vegas and putting some money on Raheem for coach of the year. It might be almost a sure bet...

Nearly everything I have said other than predicting  Bezos would purchase the team has been absolutely 100% correct. Everything related to players and coaches. I missed on my prediction that one of the wealthiest guys in the world would purchase a property that was for sale. It was interesting to be be wrong once, I better understood how you and everyone else here feels on a daily basis. Alas, it’s not for me so I decided to stop being wrong.
 

You on the other hand have almost never been correct on anything. Particularly your delusional assessments of quarterbacks. Your fan boy crush on Jason Campbell was among the dumbest takes ever here on this board. So unless you have specific examples you can document about me other than Bezos, go back into your little hole and let the grown-ups talks. Thanks.

[BayouBrave86]

Would take Maye and Daniels every single day over Caleb. Let Chicago draft that headache that sets their franchise back yet another 5 years. 

[Jumbo]

17 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Don’t want to upset anyone, but I believe I quoted him in my post.

 

He posted a tier list that had

Tier 1 Williams/May

Tier 2 Daniel, McCarthy, Penix and Nix

Tier 3 the rest.

 

 

 

All I was intending to do with my post was to challenge the idea that Maye belongs in the same tier as Williams, with Daniels behind Maye. In a completely different tier than Maye.

 

All I was stating is that many posters here clearly believe that Maye is closer to Caleb, than Daniels is to Maye, and my pushback was in most national and regional media, it’s Williams going #1, with Maye and Daniels vying to be the second overall pick. Making Caleb in a tier by himself.

 

Im sorry if it came off different than that, I will try to be more specific with my posts. 

 

I completely agree 100%, unlike some others, I’m just completely unsure what the team would do, and even more unsure what I would do if I were in Peters position. I just hope whatever they do, they get it right.

 

Mac, you're giving indications that you're trying to behave properly so I'm not going to keep challenging you on this, and my intentions are actually benign.  I'll make one last try to get through to you with what will be my final comment.

 

Reread what you posted that I quoted, carefully. Note how you worded your claim.

 

Then reread the exact wording of my challenge.

 

Than reread how you've replied. Because in fact, if it can penetrate your awareness, you committed the same missteps in communicating that I called out.

 

Anyway, keep posting, and practice careful comprehension if you would be so kind. 🙂

 

 

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

The idea with Maye has got to be that you can fix his inconsistencies with accuracy and decision making.

I think his decision making was fine. His accuracy issues can be fixed by fixing his footwork issues. People need to go watch his last game against NC State. He was not good. Yet everything he struggled with came down to poor footwork. When he got his footwork right in that game he dealt dimes.  

[profusion]

37 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Absolute absurd amount of money to set on fire.

 

If he signs somewhere cheap someone will have a steal.

 

I think he's done. Someone will be paying for the Wilson of 10 years ago, but that's not what they'll get.

 

The Broncos are in a world of hurt. No QB, no high draft picks, no cap room. Wow.

[DogofWar1]

I think the reason Maye gets put in the same tier as Caleb sometimes is because they are similar in a lot of ways.  Both can extend plays and make throws from outside the pocket on the move and have solid arms.  Both had monster 2022s and somewhat worse 2023s due to, arguably, a step back in their surrounding cast.  There are differences, mainly I think Williams is just better in a number of areas, but stylistically I can see why they'd get compared closely.

[wit33]

On 2/29/2024 at 5:17 PM, mistertim said:

 

Again, I ask for numbers.

 

What number of college running yards defines what you see as a true dual threat QB? Where is the cutoff? And what is your 40 time cutoff? Does Stroud make it? He ran a 4.5 How about Hurts? You've cited him numerous times but he ran a 4.6.

 

The only QB in the NFL who is sub 4.4 is Lamar.

 

You're really boxing yourself in here.

 

In this ongoing discussion about dual-threat quarterbacks, I’ve clarified my preference for athletic freaks across all positions, QB included.

 

I'm open to discovering the next Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes, but what truly distinguishes them is their exceptional minds. Predicting whether a player will be an elite processor at the QB position is challenging.

A 4.6-4.7 40-yard dash doesn't strike me as freakish speed in the NFL. When compared to peers like Jones, Tannehill, Carr, Wilson, Herbert, Smith, and Love, all with similar speed, it doesn't give me the impression that Washington will have a QB with extraordinary athleticism.
 

Do you feel that when you’ve watched these guys with comparable speed and size? 

 

We’re delving into different tiers of dual-threat QBs, and while you believe most are dual threats, I agree but also see varying levels of proficiency. This is akin to evaluating RBs based on their spatial awareness, explosiveness, and ability to manipulate defenders in open space etc..

 

I agree that most QBs possess dual-threat ability in the NFL. The speed at the QB spot is on a constant rise, and it might just blow your mind eventually! Similarly to Lamar Jackson winning a second MVP— what a freak! 
 

 

On 3/1/2024 at 3:56 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Peters in that Grant interview flat out said they'd be considering some high end FAs and bargain basement FAs, too.

 

I get the rhetoric about we want to build in the draft and not via FA.  Who doesn't say that?  Also, hey we aren't going to go nuts and spend big in FA.  Also most say that, too

 

But I get the sense at a minimum they will play it medium in FA. 

I hope the front office commits substantial funds to incoming free agents. The group appears well-organized and ready for both the present and the future. Now, let's go execute.

[goskins10]

43 minutes ago, illone said:

 

you gotta really hate a guy to pay him that much to go away… jeebus is right. 

 

 

That translates to an additonal $49.6M CAP hit this season. Wow, that is a lot of hate! 

 

But I still would not want him here. Wrong side of his career and we need to be thinking long term. He would be another band-aid. 

 

I also would not want to trade up for WIlliams. He is better than Maye and Daniels in terms of measurables but I am not sure about the space between his ears and really would not want them giving up the amount of capitol it would take. Not sure he is that much better. Decide between Maye and Daniels (right now I see them as a coin toss but for different reasons). Then build the rest of your roster. 

[clskinsfan]

47 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Absolute absurd amount of money to set on fire.

 

If he signs somewhere cheap someone will have a steal.

Someone can get him for like 4 years 60 million. That really is a 4 year 140 million deal for Wilson after his payments from Denver come through. That would leave you the ability to build around him financially as well. I dont want Russ. I want to take a swing on a blue chipper at 2. But that is a pretty good deal for someone. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

56 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

He’s being released on the 13th. It maybe designated as a June 1 release for salary cap purposes but he’s done in Denver.

The cap rules are interesting about this, however.  He is going to be released, but they won't be able to use the cap savings until after June 1.  I think.  

 

Who was it who we released as a June 1st cut and we had to wait somewhat recently?  I can't remember...(checks internet) it was Landon Collins.

 

So that means Wilson's current cap value carries forward until June 1st, then it chagnes.

 

My goodness.  2 more years to get out of this miss.

 

[SoCalSkins]

20 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

I think he's done. Someone will be paying for the Wilson of 10 years ago, but that's not what they'll get.

 

The Broncos are in a world of hurt. No QB, no high draft picks, no cap room. Wow.

 

We got so lucky avoiding that scenario. Ron was willing to give up far more than Denver but Russ didn’t want to come here. 
 

I’m impressed with Sean Payton. He ripped off the band aid instead of kicking the can down the road. Let’s see how patient the Walton guy is with their rebuild. 

[Redskins 2021]

Broncos are in rebuild mode next 2 seasons. They will take the cap hit for the two seasons.

 

Watch for Gmen to sign R. Wilson for this season to compete with D. Jones. They will not be able draft Qb at 6.

Edited March 4 by Redskins 2021

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I’m impressed with Sean Payton. He ripped off the band aid instead of kicking the can down the road.

I wouldnt be too impressed if I was a Denver fan. They are about to field an entire team of UDFA's.

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Broncos are in rebuild mode next w season. Watch for Gmen to sign R. Wilson for this season.

Atlanta wouldn’t be a bad spot for him. Super weak division. Some weapons on offense.