The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

2 hours ago, illone said:

I'd probably be the only human, outside of Rich Eisen, that would be cracking old wine bottles if the Commanders selected JJ McCarthy at 2.

 

😂

I assume you think he can learn to throw left then, even though he couldn’t do it from a clean pocket in college? 

[DogofWar1]

I think JJ does get a bit of benefit of the doubt, if not he wouldn't be in the convo for 1st rounder, or at least not this high.

 

But it's a different benefit of the doubt.  Michigan was a really good team.  And there were times McCarthy wasn't asked to do much.  Everyone always mentions the 7/8 against Penn State, but on the season he only had 396 combined plays (pass attempts and carries).

 

Jayden had 462 (327 and 135)

Caleb 485 (388 and 97)

Maye 537 (425 and 112)

 

The cope on Maye is he was asked to do a lot and his talent let him down. 

 

The knock on McCarthy is he wasn't asked to do nearly as much, and while he succeeded when he did stuff mostly, the team clearly could win games without him.

[mac8887]

20 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

It is a double standard, but I would say that I think Roman Wilson is really good and showed that in the Senior Bowl and in big moments all year. Cornelius Johnson has made big plays in the past but who knows with him. I heard he was looking good too. Neither are Rome Odunze or Malik Nabers, however. Colston Loveland is excellent. I can't speak to the talent on Maye's team.

Maye has had WR last year taken in the 3rd and another in the 7th and another this year that most are mocking to the second or 3rd. The talent he’s had on the outside is better than JJs, much more so.

[mac8887]

17 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

 

The cope on Maye is he was asked to do a lot and his talent let him down. 

 

And still, he had two receivers over 2 years to either be drafted in the 3rd and another mocked in the third this year, with another in the seventh last year.

 

Yes Drakes teammates dropped some balls, but so does every QBs. And still a lot of uncs losses were not on his teammates, but rather Maye not playing up to the level that he has shown he can play. I’ve never seen a college kid that has made so many unbelievable plays and had great games, that turns around and makes bad throws or has a stinker of a game.

 

Whoever drafts him will need to fix this issue with him, and if they can, then look out, you’ve got a gem on your hands, but it’s not a guarantee that they can. 
 

Maye has had some real stinkers compared to the other top 2 guys and some people just don’t want to admit it.

Edited March 4 by mac8887

[FootballZombie]

The idea with Maye has got to be that you can fix his inconsistencies with accuracy and decision making.

 

If you believe you can fix those, then you can get his baseline play closer to his peak than his valleys and you'll have an awesome player.

But as long as he has them, his play will resemble an EKG display monitor. You'll see the highs, but you'll get a bunch of lows too. Massive amounts of variance.

 

Even to the untrained eye, the lacking mechanics are apparent, so I can easily buy that as the main source of his issues. I can also buy a scout/coach believing they can get that turned around, because it is absolutely a fixable problem.

[Jumbo]

17 minutes ago, Conn said:

I assume you think he can learn to throw left then, even though he couldn’t do it from a clean pocket in college? 

 

I want the kind of QB that can break the back of every NFL defense using only half the field for the passing offense! That's the kind of dominance the New Commanders must make their trademark!.....!!!!

 

Seriously though, after living through decades of every kind of bad choice you can make with a high pick (I include trading the farm for RG3 and I posted when we drafted him that his college knee injury and running style with his frame was a big concern). And like in recent years from Haskin to Young to Forbes (forget the excuses and explanations). 

 

I'm in favor of keeping it simple and smart now that we have a believably competent FO and coaching/personnel staff.

 

We have a very broad and fairly credible consensus of three players having a very strong likelihood of being a high caliber performer at the most valuable position.

 

No reaching or stretching or complicated  theorizing required, and the always present nature of any top pick still being a gamble at the end of the day is at a minimal level. Pick one of those three at #2. 

 

 

[mh86]

I don’t know much, but last night I watched LSU vs ole Miss and Oregon vs UNC (2022). Don’t think this was Mayes best game, whereas that was one of Daniels.

Daniels played a great game, but it looked so easy for him due to the talent on offense. Clean pockets, wide open receivers. LSUs defense didn’t do the offense any favors as they were down two TDs the whole first half. Daniels did stay calm and kept the team rolling for the win. He made a few off platform throws that I was impressed with. I think he’s got better accuracy than Maye and has a tight quick release. 

 

Maye made some inaccurate throws that made me scratch my head. He’s not as good at making people miss as Daniels, but he’s got some wheels.. his receivers were blanketed the entire game and you can see the difference in talent. I can only recall 2-3 plays where he had a guy uncovered or open. Maye did drive the team down for a field goal to increase the lead, but nix and team scored, leaving about 15 seconds or so on the clock. 
 

To say maye has good or acceptable talent around him is an overstatement. Watch the games. Those guys are rarely ever open, no separation, and zero play making ability. maye is dropping it in for them to make a play and they just fail over and over. I saw the frustration a few times during the game. 
 

After watching those games I’d still be happy with either player, but I worry about both.

[ThatNFLChick]

Schefter is one person I will listen to (especially after the Ben Johnson thing)

Edited March 4 by ThatNFLChick

[Skinsinparadise]

Steinberg is a parody account.  He goads the Giants brass all the time.

 

Not saying that there isn't a lot of BS noise about QBs in the draft typically.  But I'd also add that draftnik types are also wildly off with so many of the QB takes over the years -- that none of that can be taken seriously either.   Does it really matter for example what name that former player thinks of such and such in the draft?  It means nothing.  The draft at this stage is just about all entertainment.  

 

Also it behooves teams to major in subterfuge about the draft.

 

 

 

Edited March 4 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

Well... that was horrifying to hear from schefty...

 

 

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

I understand people would hate it but now both Adam Schefter and Ian Rappaport have alluded to us trading back in the draft? 

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

He staged a stunt where his Pr person recorded him giving clothes to a homeless person at the combine and went further downhill from there. So many frauds every year on and off the field.
 

This year is no exception. It will be surprising  if more than 1 QB drafted this year gets a second contract with the team who drafted him. They are all gonna probably suck except maybe 1 and if the stars align possibly 2.

 

"...He staged a stunt where this Pr person recorded him giving clothes to a homeless person.."

 

 

I remember that!

 

It turns out the so called homeless guy was a bar tender at a high class "gentleman's club" who made a deal with Malik's agent the night before in the champagne room. 

 

 

 

Sleazy agent:  Slick you doing  anything at 9 tmrw morning? I got 5 bills for you. All you have to do is wear the same get up you got on now including the Santa cap, take off your glasses and shoes and sit in front of the Lucas Oil Stadium with a tin can and a "please help me" sign, then cry for the cameras and praise the lord when my client gives you some new clothes.

 

Edited March 4 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Well... that was horrifying to hear from schefty...

 

 

 

 

 

Open to everything is boiler plate expected stuff.

 

I don't even think its pure BS posturing.  I think its how this regime rolls they are open to everything on every major thing.    

 

I predicted that would be the rhetoric and leaks before this process started.  But i didn't need to be Nostradamus to make that call.  It was super obvious.

 

I am sure we will be hearing they are open right until the day before the draft.  But like Keim at the end I predict they'd pick a Qb at #2

[mistertim]

Open to anything probably means that if a team called us and said "We'll give you our entire draft this year and our 1st and 2nd next year, they'd certainly consider it.

 

That whole thing is a nothingburger report. "The Commanders may do stuff in the draft" is more or less the gist of it. Super hard hitting journalism there.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

McCarthy has a shot at being great.

I have a shot at having a threesome with Sydney Sweeny and Margo Robbie.

 

But it's not going to happen.  

[Jumbo]

At this point, with this group in charge, I retain much more open mindedness about them doing something I've argued against.

 

It's been a minute since I thought this organization makes better "big decisions"  on everything from FO hires to personnel to game planning to play calling than the collective (cough) wisdom of this board.😮

 

I also think that even the most informed and intelligent armchair fans should be far less competent in takes and judgments than NFL employed pros. I guess I should add "in a better world." 😛

[FootballZombie]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Open to everything is boiler plate expected stuff.

 

Indeed it is and it is to be expected of any competent staff.

 

It still hits different when Schefty says it tho. Plus it was more a reaction to him hinting us going after Cousins. No thanx.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

I assume you think he can learn to throw left then, even though he couldn’t do it from a clean pocket in college? 

I actually can think of 2 plays where McCarthy successfully threw to the left in the game against Bama. 

 

One was a TD toss to a WR/TE who ran behind the OL and was open by 15 yards and the ball traveled 8 yards.  The accuracy was absolutely spectacular.  Good velocity but with excellent touch.  Just incredible.  

 

The other was also a screen, he threw the ball from the far has to the near hash!!  It was literally a Hash to Has throw!!  Again, lots of zip, good accuracy, but not too hard that it would cause the receiver to drop it.

 

He had a clean pocket both times.  

 

So, your premise he couldn't throw to the left in college is ABSOLUTELY BUSTED!

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

[HigSkin]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Open to everything is boiler plate expected stuff.

 

I don't even think its pure BS posturing.  I think its how this regime rolls they are open to everything on every major thing.    

 

I predicted that would be the rhetoric and leaks before this process started.  But i didn't need to be Nostradamus to make that call.  It was super obvious.

 

I am sure we will be hearing they are open right until the day before the draft.  But like Keim at the end I predict they'd pick a Qb at #2

 

I think a lot of the rhetoric is coming from statements like this from Peters.  "We'll do anything to make our team better, trade up, trade down" yada, yada!

 

It's smart not to give your plan away.  LOL

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

I understand people would hate it but now both Adam Schefter and Ian Rappaport have alluded to us trading back in the draft? 

 

Vague openess to doing it. It's a nonstory.  What team has declared their intentions in the draft?  What year have we done so in the past?   Only one I cvan think of is 2012 when they traded up for RG3.

 

Only reason why this team is a story is because we are picking high.

 

How many teams say let alone 2 months in advance of a draft they are staying firm at ther spot in the draft.  Where they go we thought about it and we are done and set to draft where we are at, we won't consider any other option.  it's in the bank and we won't consider anything else.

 

We got Graziano, Keim among others saying they'd be very surprised if they traded down.  Keim this morning said not quite 100% but close they won't trade down.

 

But if we are waiting to hear that they are firmly locked into 2 and won't consider anything else.  We will likely be waiting the whole draft.  I don't expect them to publicly say otherwise or leak otherwise.

 

I said this among others here months ago that the trade down folks will likely feel vindicated until draft day, then they likely will be dissappointed.

Edited March 4 by Skinsinparadise

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have a shot at having a threesome with Sydney Sweeny and Margo Robbie.

 

But it's not going to happen.  

Not with that attitude. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

The idea with Maye has got to be that you can fix his inconsistencies with accuracy and decision making.

 

If you believe you can fix those, then you can get his baseline play closer to his peak than his valleys and you'll have an awesome player.

But as long as he has them, his play will resemble an EKG display monitor. You'll see the highs, but you'll get a bunch of lows too. Massive amounts of variance.

 

Even to the untrained eye, the lacking mechanics are apparent, so I can easily buy that as the main source of his issues. I can also buy a scout/coach believing they can get that turned around, because it is absolutely a fixable problem.

I think there is general consensus in NFL teams right now QBs in college:

 

- Run systems which are not comparable to the NFL, and every QB coming out is going to have a steep learning curve to make quick, NFL type decisions.  The decision making in college is different than the pros.  

- All the fundamentals are trash.  And coaches are going to have to fix those no matter what.

 

What they're looking for is ability and traits to lead them to believe they can be taught decision making and fundamentals.  

 

When I watched McCarthy, it was so clear that he knows absolutely nothing.  He can throw to wide open receivers.  But that's about it.  Can he learn?  Maybe.  My concern is even on throws where he was told where to throw it, he was late and inaccurate.  THAT'S BAD. 

 

The play that stands out, there was a 3rd and 9, and even dumbass me could tell he had single coverage to his right.  The play was designed to go inside to the TE on a quick slant.  HIs head NEVER TURNED to even glace at the outside.  The WR dumped the CB on his ass with the chuck. He was standing there by himself.  If McCarthy looks that way to at least glance if there is a chance on the 1:1, it's almost certainly a TD.  But he doesn't.  He is told exactly where he's going to throw the ball.  And he does.  And it's complete.  And they punt.  

 

Why I'm not sure. But this is SO basic, I'd expect some HS QBs to be able to at least check out the 1:1 before going to the check down.  

 

All of the decision making in college is terrible.  The offenses are pretty terrible.  The players look to the sideline to get the play, they don't even have to read the defense to figure out what they are going to do.  

[Est.1974]

Trade up or trade out. 
 

Going to be fun in here if we’ve signed either Cousins or Wilson a week or so from now 😂

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

Trade up or trade out. 
 

Going to be fun in here if we’ve signed either Cousins or Wilson a week or so from now 😂

We're going to stand pat and pick a guy.  We're not trading up, and there's no way we're dropping to tier 2 QBs.  

 

I'm actually starting to wonder if there if tier 1 is 2 or 3 guys though.  I'm wondering if all the Daniels PR push is just that, and the tiers really are

 

Tier 1: Williams/Maye

Tier 2: Daniels, McCarthy, Penix, Nix

Tier 3: Everybody else

 

That's what it was in November/December.  Then Daniels started to get some pub, then he won the Heisman, and then his agent started making it rain.