The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 

The gravy train seems to be ending for these mediocre QBs.

 

Kudos to Mike McDaniel for his bold approach, having the confidence to generate 30 TDs and 4500 yards without shelling out exorbitant money for this tier of QB. High salaries paid to QBs is one the biggest NFL heists of the last 15 years.

 

This is an offensive head coach (Mike McDaniel) potentially providing elite level returns if he can generate similar offensive production with a rookie or modestly paid veteran. Why wouldn’t you get Ryan Tannenhill for $10-12mil. The weakest move is for an offensive coach to spend ridiculous money on a mediocre QB to secure average returns. 
 

Fascinated to see how hat happens with Jordan Love as well. 

 

 This probably a spot McCarthy could go. The owner a big Michigan guy.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

lol

2 seconds after he records his 40 at the combine. The Anthony Richardson special.

 

 

Anyways, I'm stoked whether we go in a bunch of diff directions. I still like all of the big 3.

I’m not in on Maye at all, so it’s Williams/Daniels for me.

[gooseneck]

Just wondering; If Drake Maye is not the obvious choice at 2 and Jackson is not either, do we trade down to 5-8 and pick up a QB, and pick up choices.

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, formerly4skins said:

Total conjecture from the twitter-verse...but, if MIA were to shop Tua his +4500yds, 29TD, and almost 70% completion rate this past year would make him worth considering. 

 

Wouldn't be worth pick 1.2 to me, but we've got a lot of draft capital to throw around...maybe J. Allen + a 2nd or something like that.

 

 

 

I would much rather draft a rookie and have that rookie pay scale for the next 4 years. Way too many holes on this team to pay a huge amount to a QB. Plus if Miami doesn't think he is the answer why would we pick him up and pay him top dollar.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Same. I didn't like Tua coming out of college. Tua, Mac Jones and Bryce Young are all similar players to me in that I think everything around them has to be perfect in order for them to succeed. None of them have any special or elite traits so things have to be perfect around them in order for them to succeed 

 

lol its your day.  

 

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

Is there any QB that people would want here besides a rookie? Obviously Mahomes, Jackson, Allen aren't going anywhere but anyone you would be willing to take a flyer on even as a backup? 

[Chris 44]

11 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Is there any QB that people would want here besides a rookie? Obviously Mahomes, Jackson, Allen aren't going anywhere but anyone you would be willing to take a flyer on even as a backup? 

This may sound crazy, but as a backup...Brissett.

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Is there any QB that people would want here besides a rookie? Obviously Mahomes, Jackson, Allen aren't going anywhere but anyone you would be willing to take a flyer on even as a backup? 

If Johnson comes in as HC, talk Bridgewater out of retirement and bring him in for a year following his season in Detroit.

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Is there any QB that people would want here besides a rookie? Obviously Mahomes, Jackson, Allen aren't going anywhere but anyone you would be willing to take a flyer on even as a backup? 

Isn’t this kind of open ended? Most of these guys would cost more to trade for than using the #2 overall on a QB. Why do that for a vet unless it’s one of the few there is no chance at getting?

 

Plus, you lose the advantage of a rookie contract. I’m not sure how that make any sense. 
 

Of course, we can play the “what if Maye/Williams/Daniels actually suck?!” game all day, and I can find reasons that any of the three could do that… or do great.

 

But I just don’t see discussing these mystical options until they become a reality. 

[FootballZombie]

16 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

This may sound crazy, but as a backup...Brissett.

 

Not crazy at all.

I'd love to bring JB back if he is not trying to find his own starting job somewhere else.

 

We have had multiple QBs crediting him with being a big help in their personal journeys. Even if those paths didn't end in desirable territory, that kind of relationship is invaluable.

 

A JB that is cool w/ being a backup is like 100% the ideal backup QB to any young signal caller, ignoring the complication of whether he can effectively operate the scheme being implemented.

[CommanderInTheRye]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol its your day.  

 

 

 

 

 

Good find, sir!

 

Here's the embedded short version, focused solely on our pick.

 

Provided for the lazy, the brain addled, and those that are either too damn drunk, high, or comatose, to bother clicking several links to get to it...

 

 

 

 

Give me that "...at the facility by 5am every day film junkey", double threat kid, with ice water in his veins that will embrace the challenge-- on the road trailing by 4 with less than 2 minutes to go--- who's capable of destroying defenses with both his arm and his bunion encrusted swift feets.

 

Jayden D for the win!!

 

 

 

Edited January 22 by CommanderInTheRye

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Not sure how anyone could love McCarthy but not like Maye. Maybe we’re looking at different things. 
 

And I like McCarthy. 

Edited January 22 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Is there any QB that people would want here besides a rookie? Obviously Mahomes, Jackson, Allen aren't going anywhere but anyone you would be willing to take a flyer on even as a backup? 

 

Not as a starter for me.  I'd want Maye preferably or Daniels.  I like Daniels too.  i planted my flag with Daniels here on this thread months ago.  But over time among other things I wondered about his durability.  i listened to Yates-Kiper just now.  They both love Maye and Daniels.  But Kiper was selling Daniels on can teams stop a dude who can run like that.  and in theory, I agree.  But can Daniels surivive running like he did with LSU?  I don't know.

 

I wouldn't hate a trade down if they love someone else like McCarthy.  That would be my guy if i had to pick a 4th QB in this draft.  Speaking of a guy with wheels, McCarthy is really fast too but didn't use his legs a ton in college.  Wonder if that changes in the NFL because when he takes off he can motor.  Kiper was saying in that same podcast he doesn't see McCarthy as a first rounder.

 

As to veterans, not sure we need one as to a player with Howell in the fold.  I think Howell at a minimum is a high end backup.  So if they sign a QB than it would be for me purely a mentor type.

 

Edited January 22 by Skinsinparadise

[Ghost of]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Also everyone is making fun of the JJ McCarthy talk but Benjamin Albright has repeatedly said that teams are much higher on him than people think

 

 

 

Don't forget me.  I've been trying to educate people on ES because as someone who actually watched him, know his achievements at all levels of competition, and I just don't see it from these other guys. At least we know that Caleb has the physical tools. I just prefer a guy who demonstrated time and again he will do what's necessary for the team, was a 5 star recruit, only lost once as a starter, and has shown that he has the physical tools to thrive in a more modern NFL attack.

Some guys just win because they're pretty good college players who are surrounded by super elite talent. The Wolverines develop talent and have a winning and team-oriented culture now. 

 

Here's what you do: 1. Grab JJ McCarthy (skip Maye, not because i know he's going to bust but I don't know what he is or is not), 2. get yourself something to drop down (or perhaps do a swap after everyone's selected). Let him sit like he did at Michigan but maybe get him some occasional reps. Then look to start in year 2.

 

Getting Alabama guys made sense for awhile (mainly because of talent but also winning culture) but I think the gold standard of organizational culture even before winning the championship was Michigan and we're possibly going to have a HC who helped build that.

[Ghost of]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I wouldn't hate a trade down if they love someone else like McCarthy.  That would be my guy if i had to pick a 4th QB in this draft.  Speaking of a guy with wheels, McCarthy is really fast too but didn't use his legs a ton in college.  Wonder if that changes in the NFL because when he takes off he can motor.  Kiper was saying in that same podcast he doesn't see McCarthy as a first rounder.

 

 

McCarthy used them enough. As I watched the Championship game, I said he was going to have to run to get comfortable again. Apparently backed up near the end zone, he had already recognized Cover 2 (maybe Tampa 2) and exploited it for a huge gain to get them out of trouble. I see a guy like Josh Allen and while I don't think you want JJ running like that or trying to truck people, he can definitely use his legs while he gets comfortable. I found that he often didn't run but instead ran outside on play action of some kind or another and did well on those plays on short and intermediate throws (between layers of the defense.) Having heard him break down what he saw that caused him to throw to Roman Wilson vs. OSU, or that he should run to get out of trouble in the title game, I think he's much more adept than his career has shown (in the film room.)

 

I want guys who mix fantastic physical skills with demonstrated results in winning and the sort of temperament that lends itself to leading and winning as a quarterback.  Arguably, a lot of guys have great tools and people salivate over but they haven't shown they are winners.  Others may be winners or good leaders like Colt McCoy was, but lack the tools to consistently deliver. McCarthy not only has both but grew up in an organization that develops players and team chemistry (at least for now, if Harbaugh leaves who knows what effect that has).

[The Consigliere]

49 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Is there any QB that people would want here besides a rookie? Obviously Mahomes, Jackson, Allen aren't going anywhere but anyone you would be willing to take a flyer on even as a backup? 

I'm very happy with Howell as a backup because I'm not sold he's a bust as a starter, I still think he could be a 10th-15th QB in the league, maybe, I just think the way the season played out, all we learned about Howell is that he CAN be a QB in this league, but he can also be a ---- QB in this league. Some QB's just don't have it, period. Zach Wilson, Danny Nickels etc. Howell isn't that, if we give him a line, better playmakers, a defense, a team that gives a ----, he's probably league averageish, maybe better, maybe worse. That's fine for backup, for me, probably better than fine as a lot of times backups are straight trash. Rudolph, Trubisky, and Pickett in Pittsburgh are all #3 starters in my book, at best, that Tomlin took that trash heap to the playoffs is astonishing. Howell is better than all 3 of those guys, pretty easily. So we have backup covered.

 

What starters are worth going after to be our starter? None. Not with the 2 pick. If we couldn't trade up, period, and we were slotted in the 7-11 zone, even then, I'd probably just draft a guy, unless I could acquire Fields for a 3rd and a conditional day 3 pick (like, I give the Bears a 4th if he finishes QBR 1-15, I give them a 5th if he's QBR 16-19, and I give them a 6th if its QBR 20-32 with an addendum that requires at least 350 throws, otherwise the day 3 pick is automatically a 6th). The problem with Tua is that I don't really see any hope he's any better than 20th-10th, period, and hes never winning a big game. The reason Id prefer Fields to him is that I still have another year before the rookie option, and Fields might still have a chance to be special, Tua doesn't. Cousins is just too old. It's pointless, he would be good or average, but he would also totally screw us in our ability to land a good pick to draft a QB because hed probably make us a 6 to 7 win team. Same problem with Tua, too high of a floor. With a Fields, you have the upside, and the chance for disaster too, so either he hits, or were chicago level bad, locking in another top 10 pick.

 

But, it needs to be noted, I still wouldn't do this. I'd just draft a guy, either trading up for Daniels or Maye, or trading down for the next tier. I'm not bringing in any of these QB's. It makes sense for an Atlanta to trade for a Fields, they already have more of their build done. With us, were rock bottom (or next year is, not sure which), and as such, we can't afford those kinds of attempted short cuts. They hurt the future, and do little in the present and that was 1993-2023. Enough of that ---- already. 

[FootballZombie]

That vid had Jayden at 6'4

I had been seeing 6'3 in a lot of places.

 

Can't wait for reliable combine measurables so I can freak out about hand sizes and wingspan.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Question: how is JJ McCarthy's arm strength as it compares to Williams, Maye and Daniels.  

 

I don't watch a ton of college football, but I watched some.  And I have family members who live in Ann Arbor and are HUGE Michigan fans so I ended up watching a few games along the way.

 

My overall impression was McCarthy's arm talent was at best NFL average, and I don't know if it's even that good.  Particularly, I saw him throw some medium out-routes against Ohio State which just fluttered in the win.  Better than Heinicke, but not what I would consider NFL level. I could be wrong.  Which is why I'm asking.  

 

I know that I probably place more emphasis on arm talent than others on this board.  I believe a QB HAS to be able to stretch the field vertically and horizontally to be an NFL starter, or you concede too much to a defense.  And that makes literally everything else harder.  Harder to complete the short passes, inside passes, run the ball, everything is harder if you don't have the ability to extend the field.

 

It's like table stakes.  You have to have an NFL arm to get cards. That doesn't mean you're that close to being good.  But you're in the game.  Throwing with accuracy, quick decision making, escapability, toughness, football smarts, a QB needs all of those things.  But none of it really matters if they don't have an NFL arm.  

[redskin301]

I’ll pass on Daniels 2 acl injury’s already sometimes the best ability is availability

[klwilkins1977]

13 hours ago, mistertim said:

This is an outstanding idea. I remember when we had Chris Samuels at LT and then Trent and we won all those Super Bowls because we had that Tackle position locked down.

Who was the owner/GM then? Are we expecting the same outcomes with what looks like a competent team of professionals in charge?

 

Funny, but stupid.

[The Consigliere]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Question: how is JJ McCarthy's arm strength as it compares to Williams, Maye and Daniels.  

 

I don't watch a ton of college football, but I watched some.  And I have family members who live in Ann Arbor and are HUGE Michigan fans so I ended up watching a few games along the way.

 

My overall impression was McCarthy's arm talent was at best NFL average, and I don't know if it's even that good.  Particularly, I saw him throw some medium out-routes against Ohio State which just fluttered in the win.  Better than Heinicke, but not what I would consider NFL level. I could be wrong.  Which is why I'm asking.  

 

I know that I probably place more emphasis on arm talent than others on this board.  I believe a QB HAS to be able to stretch the field vertically and horizontally to be an NFL starter, or you concede too much to a defense.  And that makes literally everything else harder.  Harder to complete the short passes, inside passes, run the ball, everything is harder if you don't have the ability to extend the field.

 

It's like table stakes.  You have to have an NFL arm to get cards. That doesn't mean you're that close to being good.  But you're in the game.  Throwing with accuracy, quick decision making, escapability, toughness, football smarts, a QB needs all of those things.  But none of it really matters if they don't have an NFL arm.  

Supposedly its not a liability when it comes to evals and if he can make all the throws, that's what matters, he doesn't have to have a cannon, just needs to be execute them all with consistently. Size is fine, came in as a top 6 QB in his recruiting class.

 

I don't want to draft him, I want Williams, then Maye, then Daniels, but if we were stuck where we were in the slotting in October, JJ would be a trade down target for me. I'm fine with the second tier. I fully expect 2 of the top 3 to hit, and at least 1 and maybe 2 of the bottom 3 to hit. This isn't going to be 2021, or 2018 in my view, where only 2 out of 9 hit big, and a ton busted (Rosen, Wilson, Darnold, and Lance (injury related). I tend to think of the 6 guys projected to go top 40, I think will get at least 1 franchise guy, and at least 3-4 starters. I'm worried about Daniels and Penix Jr in terms of staying healthy, but I expect both to be good when they're playing. I think 1 hits between McCarthy and Nix, I suspect maye and Williams will both hit as starters, I just don't know if they'll be home runs or more doubles. This class doesn't feel like '21 to me. These guys don't have the holes and rawness those guys had. These guys have a lot more reps, a lot more experience etc. 

 

In general, my 1 big concern is just health issues with my #3 QB in the class and Penix Jr. 

 

I know it usually hits at a 3 or 4 in 6 rate, but the way the distribution of these guys will play out, they don't sound like they're landing in terrible organizations, Chicago, Washington, New England, plus the other 3 are going to land with solid orgs too. I'm not as worried as I was with the '21 guys who just seemed either raw (Wilson, Lance), or just played out (Mac Jones). 

 

Could be wrong though. We'll see over the next few years. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yeah, I listened to it as well.  I was taking him seriously until I heard him say Maye hasn't ever made any plays that "wowed" him and after he compared Daniels to CJ Stroud.

 

He also did something that some here do when they have a bias against a player, they fudge their numbers down.  He talked about how some touted Maye for his size, and then said he's 220 pounds when he's actually 230.

 

But overall to each their own.  I can't recall too many QB prospects universally loved over the years.  Heck I can even recall some knocks on Joe Burrow from some.  So its cool for whomever of course to feel which ever way they do.

 

But as to some of Mueller's other points.

 

A.  he suggested its a no brainer to take a QB.  @Thinking Skins  your predisposed bias is showing a little   if you are pumping up that broadcast, cherry picking the hits on one QB while also making the case that maybe this is a "meh" draft for QB in the same post. 

 

Mueller said the opposite.  He said this is a great year to have the 2nd pick.  It's a great QB draft and a great time for that reason to have the 2nd pick.  He just wasn't high on Maye but was high on Caleb, Daniels, McCarthy.  He went that some years picking high doesn't matter as much because the QB crop isn't hot.  But this draft is the right one to go QB.  

 

B.  you got to act like you aren't picking at #2 again for a long time. He said "There is no better time than now" to take one.  And you take a Qb even if you like a position player better.  You need a QB to win.

 

C.  Compared Dan Quinn to Pete Carroll as a leader of men.   SB coaches like him don't grow on trees.  He wouldn't have a pause about hiring him but if you are drafting a QB its better to get an offense type

 

D.  Ben Johnson -- best designed offense in the league.   He has more answers to help a QB than most other places

 

E.  Keim asked him if he likes another candidate, he mentioned Brian Callahan from Cincy.

 

 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

"Everyone"

 

I have McCarthy in a similar space as I have Daniels and Nix.

 

I have Daniels above McCarthy but am OK taking him in the top 10.  McCarthy if i recall was the first QB I ironically touted on the draft thread at the start of the college season if I recall correctly.

Edited January 22 by Skinsinparadise

[pico926]

1 minute ago, Ghost of said:

McCarthy used them enough. As I watched the Championship game, I said he was going to have to run to get comfortable again. Apparently backed up near the end zone, he had already recognized Cover 2 (maybe Tampa 2) and exploited it for a huge gain to get them out of trouble. I see a guy like Josh Allen and while I don't think you want JJ running like that or trying to truck people, he can definitely use his legs while he gets comfortable. I found that he often didn't run but instead ran outside on play action of some kind or another and did well on those plays on short and intermediate throws (between layers of the defense.) Having heard him break down what he saw that caused him to throw to Roman Wilson vs. OSU, or that he should run to get out of trouble in the title game, I think he's much more adept than his career has shown (in the film room.)

 

I want guys who mix fantastic physical skills with demonstrated results in winning and the sort of temperament that lends itself to leading and winning as a quarterback.  Arguably, a lot of guys have great tools and people salivate over but they haven't shown they are winners.  Others may be winners or good leaders like Colt McCoy was, but lack the tools to consistently deliver. McCarthy not only has both but grew up in an organization that develops players and team chemistry (at least for now, if Harbaugh leaves who knows what effect that has).

Agree 100% on McCarthy assessment. I believe he is #3 QB in this years draft. He is a winner with great mobility, a strong enough arm, and processes really well. When the lights were brightest this past season this guy always shined!

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Is there any QB that people would want here besides a rookie? Obviously Mahomes, Jackson, Allen aren't going anywhere but anyone you would be willing to take a flyer on even as a backup? 

Sign Kirk for $40m/year and draft Marvin Harrison Jr. at #2?

 

(I wouldn't.  But I'd think about it. Not for very long.  Ok, As long as it took to write that sentence.... I'm done thinking about it.)

 

Another option: trade a second for Fields and draft Harrinson Jr. I am not a Field's fan. So I would think about that one less. 

 

For what it's worth, here are the FA QBs for next year. And my thought of them.

 

- Kirk. "That could be interesting. Could be.  Probably wouldn't be."

- Baker Baker the Touchdown Maker. "Let him drink beer in Tampa."

That's the list of starters who are Free Agents.  Now we go to tier 2:

- Tannehill. "This is not that interesting. But his wife is SMOKING hot.  STILL. So there's that."

- Joe Flacco. "He's really old."

- Jacoby 'Brisket.' "Love to have him back.  As a backup."

- Gardner Minshew. (insert Minshew goosebump meme here.)

 

Then there's "everybody else" who all have the same thought: "Hell No, Stay Away." I bolded a few because they're more interesting than the others.  

Tyrod Taylor, Marcus Mariota, Sam Darnold, Jameis Winston, Drew Lock, Teddy Bridgewater, Tyler Huntley, Joshua Dobbs (who's going to get paid by somebody to be a backup at worst.) Nate Sudfeld, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Johnson, Kyle Allen, Brandon Allen, Trevor Siemian, A.J. McCarron, Matt Barkley, Mason Rudolph, logan Woodside, Feleipe Franks, Jake Browning, Nathan Rourke, Garrett Gilbert (hey, remember him?)

 

There are at least 5 guys on that list I've never heard of. 

 

Though I saved the best for last.

 

Carson Wentz. 

 

 

Yeah, it has to be a QB at #2.  There are no good options available in FA except Kirk and he's going to be too expensive and older.  Fields is somewhat intreaguing, but he's not great and you'd have to pay him after 1 off-season.  

[clskinsfan]

I am far higher on Maye than Daniels. But I dont get paid to make these decisions. I will say if Peters takes Daniels over Maye he better be right. You would be passing on a player with a bigger arm, bigger body and a player who has shown constantly his ability to fit the ball into tight windows for a guy who is frail, has an average arm and has show constantly that he struggles to fit the ball into tight windows. I will cheer for whoever we pick though in the end. 

Edited January 22 by clskinsfan