The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

Again, that Howell is playing fairly well and flashing the way he is while the defense knows what’s coming 90% of the time is crazy 

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

What’s so bad about that? They’ve got 7 in the box and a defender in every gap.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

19 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Paul looks awful.

 

At the Giants game, we had seats right near the tunnel and when he came jogging out - I was like damn, my man looks out of breath already.  Just looked really sloppy and out of shape.

 

I think it was SIP who went down a podcast rabbit hole and found out Chris Paul had big conditioning issues last season. He was given a legit chance with poor competition to take the reigns at LG this season but he spent the off-season doing diddly to fix his body and conditioning.

 

We were mostly high on his potential...provided he took the steps to develop. It's clear he didn't bother. He's someone who a new coaching staff cuts after next training camp.

 

What a waste of an opportunity.

 

[DJHJR86]

 

 

 

[KDawg]

If we have a chance at Cooper Beebe with our first second rounder and we don't take him I may have a coronary. 

[Llevron]

10 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

What’s so bad about that? They’ve got 7 in the box and a defender in every gap.

 

Most people don't know wtf they are talking about. Yes - if anything the defense is daring you to throw it because all of the defenders are in the box and they are covering man all the way across the field with one safety. Why wouldn't you throw against this? The guy writing the tweet is trying to insinuate that they dont fear you running the ball at all - and it fits everyone's narrative that EB doesn't want to throw it - so everyone assumes that its a problem. When the reality is you are supposed to throw into this kind of **** cause that's literally what they are giving you. 

 

Take what the defense gives you. Play to your strengths. In theory we should beat that **** all day long. Specifically with the pass. 

 

Someone explain to me why Im wrong. I will admit it only took me about 10 minutes to google and come up with that answer so im sure there are holes in it. I would like to be educated. 

 

10 hours ago, Conn said:

Again, that Howell is playing fairly well and flashing the way he is while the defense knows what’s coming 90% of the time is crazy 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Llevron

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If we have a chance at Cooper Beebe with our first second rounder and we don't take him I may have a coronary. 

I wouldn't have a problem with them drafting him if he's there in the 2nd which he should be but if J.T. Tuimoloau or Terrion Arnold are available in the 2nd we need to take one or both of them as we need massive help in our secondary and we need an EDGE guy with both of ours being gone and it depends on how and what they do in FA.  Do they spend big on 1 or 2 players, or will we have a good analytical guy (I hope) that spends wisely not breaking the bank but middle of the road for players we know will play their guts out on every play and are solid but not great.  

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I wouldn't have a problem with them drafting him if he's there in the 2nd which he should be but if J.T. Tuimoloau or Terrion Arnold are available in the 2nd we need to take one or both of them as we need massive help in our secondary and we need an EDGE guy with both of ours being gone and it depends on how and what they do in FA.  Do they spend big on 1 or 2 players, or will we have a good analytical guy (I hope) that spends wisely not breaking the bank but middle of the road for players we know will play their guts out on every play and are solid but not great.  

In my opinion, Cooper Beebe is the best OL in the draft. Fix the secondary in FA/with coaching and scheme and find guys in the mid rounds. I do NOT pass on the best OL in class for one of them. 

[lovemaskins]

10 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

What’s so bad about that? They’ve got 7 in the box and a defender in every gap.

Got to keep a team honest, safeties back, corners back, linebackers on their heels pre-snap says pass anticipation.  Gotta pound that look. That’s a 5 man front with backers 7 off leaning back. Run look every time and we still pass. I’ve been a staunch EB supporter due to his development of Sam but his refusal to run the rock, a foundational element of football, is why I’m done. You HAVE to run the football.

 

plus the league pendulum is swinging back to center again with respect to running being more effective. Teams spend resources and time scheming against the pass that defensive personnel are smaller and faster to combat the pass, making it advantageous to run against these smaller fronts. And I’m not talking 1995 Lions / Cowboys 35 times a game. It absolutely pays to be somewhat balanced to keep defenses off guard, and we STILL don’t do it.  and when we do it’s actually pretty effective.  BRob coming down hill is a nightmare for smallish linebackers and corners. 
 

What top teams in football don’t run the ball consistently…?  I can’t think of any.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I think it was SIP who went down a podcast rabbit hole and found out Chris Paul had big conditioning issues last season. He was given a legit chance with poor competition to take the reigns at LG this season but he spent the off-season doing diddly to fix his body and conditioning.

 

We were mostly high on his potential...provided he took the steps to develop. It's clear he didn't bother. He's someone who a new coaching staff cuts after next training camp.

 

What a waste of an opportunity.

 

That’s the first I recall hearing that, but jives with what I saw.  I don’t expect a guard to be the beacon of in-shape but he looked a bit wobbly for an NFL guard.

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

In my opinion, Cooper Beebe is the best OL in the draft. Fix the secondary in FA/with coaching and scheme and find guys in the mid rounds. I do NOT pass on the best OL in class for one of them. 

Looking at Spotrac and who will be available as of today and that will change, FA is going to stink overall position wise except for secondary this year for the most part.  Many players will be overpaid due to lack of talent being available at this time.  Again, things can change but it doesn't look good in FA except in the secondary in FA as you said, KDawg.  👍  We definitely need two if not more solid OL within the first 3 rounds. I'd be cool with Alt/Fashanu with #5 and Beebe as our next pick 1st in the 2nd round and then give me J.T. Tuimiloau with the other 2nd round pick.  With our first 3rd I'd like Javon Foster from Missouri, EDGE.

[Conn]

25 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Most people don't know wtf they are talking about. Yes - if anything the defense is daring you to throw it because all of the defenders are in the box and they are covering man all the way across the field with one safety. Why wouldn't you throw against this? The guy writing the tweet is trying to insinuate that they dont fear you running the ball at all - and it fits everyone's narrative that EB doesn't want to throw it - so everyone assumes that its a problem. When the reality is you are supposed to throw into this kind of **** cause that's literally what they are giving you. 

 

Take what the defense gives you. Play to your strengths. In theory we should beat that **** all day long. Specifically with the pass. 

 

Someone explain to me why Im wrong. I will admit it only took me about 10 minutes to google and come up with that answer so im sure there are holes in it. I would like to be educated. 

My take on his point was that there’s a single linebacker in the tackle box, and extra pass rushers showing blitz. At first glance if you’re just counting heads the box may look like it’s a little heavy but it’s really not given what they’re showing, you have a numbers advantage between the tackles if you were to run the ball. Now we line up in shotgun so much and pass so much, of course this is the look the D gives. Who knows if Howell even has the authority at the line to audible. And I highly doubt he could audible into an under the center run or even pistol, so you’re stuck with that delayed shotgun draw that I hate so much.

[lovemaskins]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

My take on his point was that there’s a single linebacker in the tackle box, and extra pass rushers showing blitz. At first glance if you’re just counting heads the box may look like it’s a little heavy but it’s really not given what they’re showing, you have a numbers advantage between the tackles if you were to run the ball. Now we line up in shotgun so much and pass so much, of course this is the look the D gives. Who knows if Howell even has the authority at the line to audible. And I highly doubt he could audible into an under the center run or even pistol, so you’re stuck with that delayed shotgun draw that I hate so much.

Exactly,  have to understand where the lanes are and attack there. In the second pic weak side has 2 lineman hand in dirt and a backer 7 off, you’ve got numbers. Couple of combo blocks up to 2nd level and take 3-5 with a chance BRob makes a guy miss and gets 10-15.  Running is scheme and mismatches. That’s a nickel front, gotta eat there. When they creep up you take shots behind the linebackers. 

[slinky]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tommy-devito-turned-down-significantly-more-money-from-commanders-to-sign-with-giants/

 

Tommy DeVito turned down significantly more money from Commanders to sign with Giants

DANG! We almost had the future GOAT Danny Devito

[RandyHolt]

Feeding WR1 Data

 

[DWinzit]

3 hours ago, slinky said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tommy-devito-turned-down-significantly-more-money-from-commanders-to-sign-with-giants/

 

Tommy DeVito turned down significantly more money from Commanders to sign with Giants

DANG! We almost had the future GOAT Danny Devito

Can't blame him for going with Daboll and selecting the Dimes run team over the Howell run team.

[Est.1974]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

If we have a chance at Cooper Beebe with our first second rounder and we don't take him I may have a coronary. 

Agree. I could see him going lower first round by time he nails the pre draft process too. Looks like a guaranteed high level starter for years. 

[Conn]

45 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Can't blame him for going with Daboll and selecting the Dimes run team over the Howell run team.

That and with the Giants, he can keep living the Italian dream of staying in his mom’s house and eating her home cooked food.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by Conn

[The Consigliere]

5 hours ago, RWJ said:

Looking at Spotrac and who will be available as of today and that will change, FA is going to stink overall position wise except for secondary this year for the most part.  Many players will be overpaid due to lack of talent being available at this time.  Again, things can change but it doesn't look good in FA except in the secondary in FA as you said, KDawg.  👍  We definitely need two if not more solid OL within the first 3 rounds. I'd be cool with Alt/Fashanu with #5 and Beebe as our next pick 1st in the 2nd round and then give me J.T. Tuimiloau with the other 2nd round pick.  With our first 3rd I'd like Javon Foster from Missouri, EDGE.

They're not gonna do that though, don't get married to specific guys or specific positional moves because it almost never happens the way you anticipate it happening. I would not be surprised if two of our top 5 picks are OL's, but there's no way of knowing what they'll do. They may trade down, they may take a WR, a QB, Bowers, the TE, or an Edge with that first, they might get a DB via that trade down. We have no idea, and I'd almost be willing to be, or go out on a limb and say there's a 95% chance that the first two picks aren't OL's. 1 might be, but not both. I suspect we'll pull 2 out of day 1 and day 2, or day 1+round 4 of day 2. I would be absolutely floored if they went OL/OL in the top of round 1 and 2. I just can't see it and I dont believe we've ever done that once in my lifetime of watching the team (44 years). I can't recall any examples of that even happening.

 

I suspect they'll try to find something usable in FA, maybe 2 guys, and then they'll probably grab 2 guys in the top 110 or so picks for the OL. I use past history to back that argument, but I can also use the lazy gm argument that Stromberg next year will be like a day 2 rookie himself considering he missed most of the season and I could picture the next GM arguing just that in presser's "well, weve brought in a couple of guys in free agency, used one of our three top 50 picks, and another top 100 pick on a guy, and we've got one of the top centers from the '23 draft who missed almost all of '23 coming in too, so we like the infusions we'll be able to add this year from that group of prospects, vets and the 2nd year stromberg."

 

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, slinky said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tommy-devito-turned-down-significantly-more-money-from-commanders-to-sign-with-giants/

 

Tommy DeVito turned down significantly more money from Commanders to sign with Giants

DANG! We almost had the future GOAT Danny Devito

Was listening to playerprofiler's flagship pod this morning and one of the guys argued, pretty convincingly, that Danny Nickels was their worst QB this year, and it probably helped the Giants that he went down considering Tyler is halfway to competent, and Danny has been "okay" for a rookie, which is better than the walking Titanic that was Captain Nickels at the helm earlier in the season. Basically argued that Danny Nickels going down screwed them out of a legit chance to land his replacement in Caleb of Drake. Btw, look at Devito's numbers, kinda crazy, but just counting stat wise, 63% comp, 7 TD's, 3 picks, YPA is adequate if not great, and that's with an offense that has nothing at all whatsoever in terms of playmakers. Just Jalin Hyatt and Slaton on deep balls, Wandale, broken down Saquon after a billion injuries (still good though), and a good vet TE. That's basically a giant pile of unproven ----, Saquon's retirement/2nd contract tour, and a good TE. 

 

Kinda wish we got him. Actually, 1,000% wish we got him. Our QB room would be far better. As is, speculative Howell, rent a season Brissett, and nada behind them. Not great. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by The Consigliere

[Llevron]

6 hours ago, lovemaskins said:

Got to keep a team honest, safeties back, corners back, linebackers on their heels pre-snap says pass anticipation.  Gotta pound that look. That’s a 5 man front with backers 7 off leaning back. Run look every time and we still pass. I’ve been a staunch EB supporter due to his development of Sam but his refusal to run the rock, a foundational element of football, is why I’m done. You HAVE to run the football.

 

plus the league pendulum is swinging back to center again with respect to running being more effective. Teams spend resources and time scheming against the pass that defensive personnel are smaller and faster to combat the pass, making it advantageous to run against these smaller fronts. And I’m not talking 1995 Lions / Cowboys 35 times a game. It absolutely pays to be somewhat balanced to keep defenses off guard, and we STILL don’t do it.  and when we do it’s actually pretty effective.  BRob coming down hill is a nightmare for smallish linebackers and corners. 
 

What top teams in football don’t run the ball consistently…?  I can’t think of any.

 

6 hours ago, Conn said:

My take on his point was that there’s a single linebacker in the tackle box, and extra pass rushers showing blitz. At first glance if you’re just counting heads the box may look like it’s a little heavy but it’s really not given what they’re showing, you have a numbers advantage between the tackles if you were to run the ball. Now we line up in shotgun so much and pass so much, of course this is the look the D gives. Who knows if Howell even has the authority at the line to audible. And I highly doubt he could audible into an under the center run or even pistol, so you’re stuck with that delayed shotgun draw that I hate so much.

 

OK so y'all are saying they lined up like this specifically because they don't think we will run it at all - and that this is actually a formation that you should run against because once you get to the second level there is nothing there to stop BRob, basically. So the chances of big runs exist. Is that correct? 

 

This **** is almost like Greek to me so it took me reading it 5 times to even digest it. Actually as i type this, i don't think i understand any of it. I tried to google some formations and the concepts behind them and im more confused than when i started 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

33 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

 

OK so y'all are saying they lined up like this specifically because they don't think we will run it at all - and that this is actually a formation that you should run against because once you get to the second level there is nothing there to stop BRob, basically. So the chances of big runs exist. Is that correct? 

 

This **** is almost like Greek to me so it took me reading it 5 times to even digest it. Actually as i type this, i don't think i understand any of it. I tried to google some formations and the concepts behind them and im more confused than when i started 

Pretty much, and the only legit option to run it also stinks - the infamous delayed run.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

 

OK so y'all are saying they lined up like this specifically because they don't think we will run it at all - and that this is actually a formation that you should run against because once you get to the second level there is nothing there to stop BRob, basically. So the chances of big runs exist. Is that correct? 

 

This **** is almost like Greek to me so it took me reading it 5 times to even digest it. Actually as i type this, i don't think i understand any of it. I tried to google some formations and the concepts behind them and im more confused than when i started 

Basically yeah. The reason some teams have so much success disguising what they’re doing is because their usage of formations doesn’t give it away. 49ers are infamous for it but Eagles are good at it, Rams under McVay have been good at it. There’s no attempt at that with EB because of the way we line up and the consistency with which he passes the ball. And I actually agree with you, there are certain looks that it’s better to pass against even if it’s traditionally a “running down”. I’m not a running game freak, I want to pass the ball like 70%+ of the time in all honesty. But the way EB does it leaves no mystery and very few options for Howell to check to the sort of run that would eat up the look in those tweets. 
 

The passing game can still beat that look, very much so. Especially when Howell is in a groove. But you’re making his life harder by making no effort to keep teams honest or disguise anything, the defense not knowing how you’re going to hit them is like half the fear factor a truly scary offense brings. When you remove the need for a defensive coordinator to predict countermoves and counter-countermoves, and they can just put their talented defenders heads up against what they know is coming—you’re choosing to play on hard mode even if generically you’re doing the “right thing” by passing a lot. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

9 hours ago, Llevron said:

Someone explain to me why Im wrong. I will admit it only took me about 10 minutes to google and come up with that answer so im sure there are holes in it. I would like to be educated. 

Well, if you look closely at the picture you’ll notice 11 guys on offense and 11 guys on defense. Now, look closer. See the guys wearing blue? Those are the A Holes in the picture. So, you are correct, there are holes in it. They are so good at being holes, that I have given them the grade of A. 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

Well, if you look closely at the picture you’ll notice 11 guys on offense and 11 guys on defense. Now, look closer. See the guys wearing blue? Those are the A Holes in the picture. So, you are correct, there are holes in it. They are so good at being holes, that I have given them the grade of A. 

 

I knew I should have asked you first. Thank you sir.