The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

There’s a select few who can do that, but 80-90% can’t afford to put on mediocre tape. 

 

Nah.  Teams understand what happens when a season is over.  Injuries are the real career killers.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

3 hours ago, illone said:

Jalen Milroe is a guy to watch. It seems like he gets better every game. Probably a heisman front runner next season. Dude runs like Bo Jackson and is the best deep ball thrower in college. 
 

im all for howell next year and then evaluate from there. Also agree with drafting a guy this season, but if it doesnt work out Milroe is a guy I would move heaven and earth to draft. 

Man he was killing Auburn with his legs. I wonder what kinda 40 time he's got.

[Skinsinparadise]

Grant Paulsen just said he heard (sounds similar to Keim) there wouldn't be much support from this locker room for Bieniemy to be the future HC.

[The Consigliere]

On 11/24/2023 at 8:48 PM, dunfer said:

 of course not, he hasnt played an entire season. Still hes the best bet weve had in decades...****ing decades and some guys are like..."lets keep our options open" Yeah sure...im probably not going to be alive for the next time we hit on a qb, so **** that

 

You just need to be rational about the production #'s. Efficency and Advanced effiecency #'s say he's basically floating between bottom of the barrell, below average, average, and above average in most categories. I could just list them quickly:

21st

24th

22nd

13th

12th

23rd

3rd

32nd

19th

19th

19th

21st

14th

31st

21st

15th

13th

28th

23rd

 

Then there's some zone and man specific ratings, he's much better against zone than man.

 

You can tell, hopefully with those ranks, Sam Howell Stats & Fantasy Ranking - PlayerProfiler , that Howell is all over the place, and we just don't know.

 

In terms of decades at QB, the story is pretty simple:

Shuler-Bust

Frerotte-Replacement level QB who looked good

Ramsey-Promising early, Gibbs had no patience to wait and he busted in Denver after that.

Campbell: Below Replacement Level

RGIII-One great season and we broke him.

Cousins- Borderline Franchise QB (got the Franchise stats, but not the franchise winning)

Haskins-Blech (with all due respect considering his misfortunte)

Howell-Solid to replacement level with no help whatsoever.

 

 

That's the story, Frerotte, and Campbell are probably closest to Howell, but Howell shows more ceiling and a higher floor than either to me, RGIII's one year and Cousin's career are above where he's played.

 

The reason we can't sit tight at QB is pretty simple. We don't have anything at the position behind him (yes we have Brissett, but Brissett is a solid to + backup for a good team, not a long term starter for a bad one), and we don't know if he's a "hit" yet in the way Stroud obviously is, or a guy who can produce flashes, but is not a long term answer (more RGIII, Frerotte). We just don't know. You can go all in if you want, nothing I can do about it, as a fan, but going all in on Howell, right now and w/the offseason is not the same as going all in on Stroud, Lawrence (even if he's nowhere near as good as expected), Burrow, Herbert, Kyler, Mahomes, etc. He's not that. He's significantly more speculative. We don't know, the draft day pedigree is only half there, and the explosive no doubt about it quaity of guys like Burrow, Herbert, and Stroud in recent years isn't there either. He's a question mark. I'm not a fan of that. I'd rather grab another QB, and if both hit, trade one. I don't think we do that, unless we stick in that 4-8 zone, if we do, then it's on the table, not a lock at all. 

 

Its critical he stay healthy so we have another month of data for the next FO to evaluate. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

When EB came in, many were singing his praises for that style.  Of course some of that is the honeymoon phase.  But what it all boils down to is results.  If he was dialing it up, getting guys open, and the offense was humming- they’d be singing a different tune.

 

[Gurgeh]

I said before the season that more talented QBs than Howell have been destroyed by starting their career behind a terrible OL. I'm actually surprised he's lasted this long given the pressure he's constantly under and the hits he's taken. I think he's improved since the season began, but there've been games where I've started to think the number of sacks has made him skittish.

 

And for what it's worth, I think Kirk and RGIII had better lines and RGIII ran a simplified offense in the first year that was suited to his style. Howell has been given no help by the coaches with the offense they've assembled or the playcalling.

[Jumbo]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Grant Paulsen just said he heard (sounds similar to Keim) there wouldn't be much support from this locker room for Bieniemy to be the future HC.

 

 

I think the players and es regulars would support him via paying for his bus ticket.

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

I think the players and es regulars would support him via paying for his bus ticket.

 

Unrelated but I rode greyhound back and forth from home n college. Majority of the time I had to stand in the aise in an overfilled bus. Greyhound don't give a flyin'...

 

 

Yeah, I'm more than good throwing out EB w/ the bathwater. He is not the absolute flaming train wreck he was for the first half of the year where he seemed incapable of mentally comprehending that the goal of the NFL was not getting your QB sacked as much as possible, but he is still not good. And his player relationship skills seem to be poor at best.

[dunfer]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Unrelated but I rode greyhound back and forth from home n college. Majority of the time I had to stand in the aise in an overfilled bus. Greyhound don't give a flyin'...

 

 

Yeah, I'm more than good throwing out EB w/ the bathwater. He is not the absolute flaming train wreck he was for the first half of the year where he seemed incapable of mentally comprehending that the goal of the NFL was not getting your QB sacked as much as possible, but he is still not good. And his player relationship skills seem to be poor at best.

if you had to rank all coaches/position coaches...our offense is the only part of the body still twitching

[FootballZombie]

42 minutes ago, dunfer said:

if you had to rank all coaches/position coaches...our offense is the only part of the body still twitching

 

Prolly, but that means less than nothing.

Standing on dry land clears that bar.

 

[Conn]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Annoys me that the conversation around EB is simplified to being about his “style” and personality with the players. Nobody in the media will talk about how bad/mediocre he’s been at his actual job and why THAT disqualifies him. If he didn’t have preexisting inertia from previous offseasons being an alleged HC candidate, it wouldn’t even be in question. But people bring his name up like it’s normal. 

[Koolblue13]

He got turnd down by 15 or 16 teams and some twice. I know we've been bad, but outside of some clueless fans nobody ever thought EB was going to be a HC here. Dudes been awful and unliked by the team since day one. Only reason the offense has any "moxie" is because Howell has been incredible. What was it the third game or whatever that they let Howell stay in the pocket getting destroyed trying to make a field goal? ****ing pathetic loser.

 

EB was an unqualified nepotism hire by a dead beat coach on his way out of the league.

 

It's wild how many people ****ed about Rons Panther hires and ignored EB as a clueless **** hire.

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

I'm still not convinced, but I really want to be. I'll confess to being somewhat confused as to what i'm really looking at here, if you love the guy you'll say look at some of the big plays, the O line is to blame for limited success. If you're not so fond of him you'll point to the interceptions and say that the number of yards is purely down to attempts.

 

I think in this circumstance I will play the ball not the man, despite the extremely limited 'success' we've had in modern times, visits to the top 5 of the draft are fleeting especially with what seems to be a strong QB class so this could be a golden opportunity to find the true QB1 franchise changer. I'd certainly not be upset if the new regime either drafted one where we are or got aggressive and moved up. 

 

Those Howell ride or dies will point once more to the O line but there are other ways of improving that situation without using our first round pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Conn said:

Annoys me that the conversation around EB is simplified to being about his “style” and personality with the players. Nobody in the media will talk about how bad/mediocre he’s been at his actual job and why THAT disqualifies him. If he didn’t have preexisting inertia from previous offseasons being an alleged HC candidate, it wouldn’t even be in question. But people bring his name up like it’s normal. 

 

Yeah it seems like some in the media like to characterize anyone not embracing Bieniemy to mean said player doesn't like to work hard.  It's silly.  It's pretty easy for example to deduce that among the players not digging Bieniemy -- one of them is Terry.  And Terry by reputation is a workaholic.

 

It was pretty easy to see even from a distance from falrly early on that Bieniemy didn't come off like a future head coach. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

On 11/25/2023 at 7:54 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My point isn’t that guys are just going to go out there and lay down on the field.  The point is that the team is already bad, and now has even less motivation.  It’s very likely we see worse performances given the state of affairs and level of competition.  Also likely you see some guys opt to nurse injuries as opposed to play through them.

 

 

 

 

Cooley talked about this some  in a recent podcast with Sheehan.  More or less, players especially in the 4th quarter often don't put that same effort in for a lame duck coach in a season that is going nowhere.

[Going Commando]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Cooley talked about this some  in a recent podcast with Sheehan.  More or less, players especially in the 4th quarter often don't put that same effort in for a lame duck coach in a season that is going nowhere.

 

Good players turtle up and play like bad players when the team breaks down and the season is lost.  It's how the Colts can go from 10 wins to 2 wins to 11 wins during the Andrew Luck year, despite not turning the roster over.  People thought that difference was due solely to Luck.  Nope.  10-11 wins was what that roster was capable of when properly led and motivated.  The bottom can fall out on anyone, even Bill Belichick, when seasons get away from you and you lose the locker room.

[Skinsinparadise]

its amusing to listen to

 

 

 

[KDawg]

Cooley is on point. Teams will try to win and put out good film early. But if adversity hits and things start to go sideways they don’t do all the things they can. That doesn’t mean they aren’t trying at all… but they will put their body on the line a bit less. They will communicate less (out of frustration).

 

When a season goes sideways, it goes sideways.

[DJHJR86]

9 hours ago, Conn said:

Annoys me that the conversation around EB is simplified to being about his “style” and personality with the players. Nobody in the media will talk about how bad/mediocre he’s been at his actual job and why THAT disqualifies him. If he didn’t have preexisting inertia from previous offseasons being an alleged HC candidate, it wouldn’t even be in question. But people bring his name up like it’s normal. 

 

Read the replies to any of Grant's tweets about this.  98% of the replies are people calling the players "soft".  The very vocal minority of this fanbase still thinks Bieniemy is a success and that a hard ass coach is what this team needs.  Brian Mitchell and Doc Walker are on that same train.  It's absolutely baffling to me.  There is no real discernable difference from Scott Turner other than instead of running the ball they are just throwing it more.  Which also leads me to another point I had thought about: because of the pass heavy offense, naturally you are going to get pass heavy stats.  Which is why Howell leads the league in attempts and passing yards.  But his negative numbers like turnovers are also a product of being in a pass heavy offense.  With some semblance of a competent play caller there would be more balance with passing and rushing.  And I think some of the negative numbers he has would go down.

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

its amusing to listen to

 

 

 

I remember that draft so well. I definitely called the Kirk pick. Saw it coming and knew there was no way we were going to just ride with RGIII.

 

That draft could have gone so much better for us. It's a shame Snyder was involved. We could have kept all of those picks and come out with Kirk and Russ.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I remember that draft so well. I definitely called the Kirk pick. Saw it coming and knew there was no way we were going to just ride with RGIII.

 

That draft could have gone so much better for us. It's a shame Snyder was involved. We could have kept all of those picks and come out with Kirk and Russ.

 

Wilson would have been insane.  

 

After a slow start Sean Payton and Wilson are on fire.  Likewise, I'd love to see Howell with someone like Ben Johnson.  An offensive wiz plus a talented QB is clearly a recipe for success.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

This is the full quote

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

It shouldn't be up to the players either way. But EB hasn't shown me he can be a HC at this level.

 

Get someone younger and more in tune with today's players.

[Conn]

2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Read the replies to any of Grant's tweets about this.  98% of the replies are people calling the players "soft".  The very vocal minority of this fanbase still thinks Bieniemy is a success and that a hard ass coach is what this team needs.  Brian Mitchell and Doc Walker are on that same train.  It's absolutely baffling to me.

It is crazy. The average twitter fan is clueless and thinks EB is a gem. Here’s a taste under a Grant tweet about potential HC candidates we should be thinking about. These people are going to get a nasty surprise and be so confused in 6 weeks: