The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

No onw is "pilling on for the sake of pilling on".  If anything, there is a considerable effort to downplay the responsibility of the offensive coordinator.  You know, he's just hopeless.  He was only given $10 to make a five course meal.  What could he possibly do?

 

I’ve been more than vocal about not being happy with EB’s gameplan and play-calling.  I have zero allegiance to EB.

 

But making bad move after bad move and being cheap about offensive line is on Ron and the FO he put together.  It makes absolutely no sense to saddle a coordinator with personnel.  

[method man]

31 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If I ask you to prepare me a meal, and I give you a can of spray cheese, a jar of beets, some stale bread and then send you to Dollar General with 10 bucks to buy ingredients to round out the meal - I can’t pin the blame you when the meal tastes like crap.

Leno, Charles and Cosmi are the top 3 on this OL and guys he inherited. Wylie and Gates are guys he brought in. Again, part of the issue, in my opinion, is coaching and these guys not playing in sync. Wharton is a first year lead OL coach and I know Castillo is helping but you probably need a veteran coach just focused on the line. We got away with similar or worse overall talent in 2020 and 2021 with Matsko and playcalling geared toward the OL’s deficiencies

[Koolblue13]

Yous guys, RonMart build a terrible OL and TE room.

 

EB is calling a terrible offense and not helping the terrible OL or young QB and showing to not be flexible

 

Jack is calling his bland defense and asking the players to pull themselves up to win.

 

It's on all of them and if this continues to happen, I hope changes are made before the season ends.

 

I think losing Harris on defense has hurt and I think the clown show at offensive position coaching this training camp has also hurt.

[DJHJR86]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I’ve been more than vocal about not being happy with EB’s gameplan and play-calling.  I have zero allegiance to EB.

 

But making bad move after bad move and being cheap about offensive line is on Ron and the FO he put together.  It makes absolutely no sense to saddle a coordinator with personnel.  

 

He's more than just a "coordinator".  It was clearly stated over and over that this is basically his audition to be a head coach.  He's the assistant head coach.  He isn't responsible for the moves that were made before he got here.  

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's on all of them and if this continues to happen, I hope changes are made before the season ends.

 

Outside of this team making the playoffs and winning a game, I don't see how this staff and front office survive after this season.  

Edited September 26, 2023 by DJHJR86

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

 

He's not just a "coordinator".  It was clearly stated over and over that this is basically his audition to be a head coach.  He's the assistant head coach.  He isn't responsible for the moves that were made before he got here.  

It’s easier to just say “Sorry, I got carried away.  You are right.”

 

Rather than pretend that an assistant head coach title means he is responsible for being a GM.

[method man]

The other thing is that this is the best the run game has looked here since arguably the Shanahan days. It is clear that all these guys are better run blockers than pass blockers (except maybe Gates per stats @Skinsinparadise has cited). EB should acknowledge that he has above average overall run blocking personnel, a good run scheme and a back who has learned to be patient and use all this

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, method man said:

The other thing is that this is the best the run game has looked here since arguably the Shanahan days. It is clear that all these guys are better run blockers than pass blockers (except maybe Gates per stats @Skinsinparadise has cited). EB should acknowledge that he has above average overall run blocking personnel, a good run scheme and a back who has learned to be patient and use all this

We've heard a million times that the best way to get the OL to gel and work together is running the ball. 

 

I think EB is tone deaf and won't try that. This week, against the #2 run defense you would think it's not the time, but when a defense is as good as getting to the QB as the Eagles, you really don't want a QB with the propensity to hold the ball putting the game on his shoulders.

[DJHJR86]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s easier to just say “Sorry, I got carried away.  You are right.”

 

Rather than pretend that an assistant head coach title means he is responsible for being a GM.

 

Absolutely no one said he was responsible for being the GM.  He was the "driving factor" in landing Wylie.  The guy has rubbed me the wrong way ever since he started referring to himself in the 3rd person.  

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-andrew-wylie-eric-bieniemy-offensive-line-tackle-coordinator-kansas-city-chiefs

 

 

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think EB is tone deaf and won't try that. This week, against the #2 run defense you would think it's not the time, but when a defense is as good as getting to the QB as the Eagles, you really don't want a QB with the propensity to hold the ball putting the game on his shoulders.

 

I hope he isn't another stubborn play caller that insists on the players running his system and not tailoring his system to the strengths of his players.  Because that was a major point of contention with Scott Turner.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Absolutely no one said he was responsible for being the GM.  He was the "driving factor" in landing Wylie.  The guy has rubbed me the wrong way ever since he started referring to himself in the 3rd person.  

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-andrew-wylie-eric-bieniemy-offensive-line-tackle-coordinator-kansas-city-chiefs

 

 

That’s basically my entire point, that you hate the dude so much you’d blame him for stubbing your toe this morning.

 

Plenty to dislike about the game he called on Sunday, and for vouching for Wiley -  but the OL problems are far bigger than Wiley, and not on him.

[DJHJR86]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

that you hate the dude so much you’d blame him for stubbing your toe this morning.

 

Hyperbolic nonsense and Battered Fan Syndrome...name a more iconic duo.

[Conn]

3 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

That's about the only place where being a 5th rounder matters. Opportunity and leash.

 

High cost guys have that sunk cost fallacy to protect them. They can play like Sam Darnold... or rather still be Sam Darnold... and their team will run it back game after game and year over year.

 

Howell unfortunately does not get that safety net. He has to be a certain level of quality outta the box. He is not allowed to suck like other young QBs can and still be given the time to grow. Its not fair, but that's the NFL.

 

I thought Howell was Good=Bad in week 1, so he was OK.

He was great in week 2

He was bad in week 3

 

So that averages out to around OK so far. If he falls below that, you don't wanna stay in that territory too long. Then your giving space for your coach to have ideas.

Not disagreeing with you here but just wanted to add that it’s not just sunk cost fallacy that grants disappointing early round picks a longer leash and multiple chances. Draft capital can be seen as a representation of initial confidence in a player. If you had to put fake numbers on it, it is naturally going to take longer to erode away the belief a team has in a guy who they started at an 80 confidence with, whereas a guy (drafted late) who started with a 20 confidence (on this fake scale I just made up to make a simple point about a complex system of knowledge, beliefs, and biases that our minds play out for every choice we make) is going to have to do a lot more to engender support for himself. It’s just how the human mind works—but it isn’t just about sunk cost fallacy. If anything it’s equally about a version of the first impression bias—where what teams thought they already knew about a guy takes longer to change the stronger their initial opinion was. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Which is why I’m worried what’ll happen next Thursday. The Iggles game in my mind is going to be abject disaster. Little can change that in my mind. That Bears game is immense bc if we have another stinker there, I genuinely question if the narrative from Ron will still be “we have to develop Sam” bc at that point, he’ll be really on the hot seat. And that’s been my fear the entire offseason. 
 

Sam Howell needed a situation like 2020 or even 2021 where there were minimal expectations and he could learn on the job bc results really didn’t matter. He’s 3-1 as a starter so far of course but knowing he has performances like Sunday in his locker is going to make folks uncomfortable. 

[kingdaddy]

I'll argue that Sam needs much more help from JDR and the defense then he's gotten thus far. How many points has our defense scored this season? How many short fields have they given Sam? Hell, they even gave up a hail Mary that could've cost us the game in Denver. Sam has barely played with a lead at all so far this season....some of that is on him but a lot of it is on our so called vaunted defense. This Sunday Sam was down 3-0 before he set foot on the field. Someone needs to put a foot up JDR's ass to get this defense in better position to make plays. I'd be OK if JDR was replaced if we get blown out on Sunday....Steal a coach from SF or Dallas and make them our DC if we don't have someone in house who's better.

[samy316]

46 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I'll argue that Sam needs much more help from JDR and the defense then he's gotten thus far. How many points has our defense scored this season? How many short fields have they given Sam? Hell, they even gave up a hail Mary that could've cost us the game in Denver. Sam has barely played with a lead at all so far this season....some of that is on him but a lot of it is on our so called vaunted defense. This Sunday Sam was down 3-0 before he set foot on the field. Someone needs to put a foot up JDR's ass to get this defense in better position to make plays. I'd be OK if JDR was replaced if we get blown out on Sunday....Steal a coach from SF or Dallas and make them our DC if we don't have someone in house who's better.

 

There are no vaunted defenses anymore in the NFL, just good to occasionally great defenses, depending on the opponent.  Look at Dallas for example.  The entire league thought that the Cowboys defense after the first 2 weeks was a throwback to the '85 Bears, or the 2000 Ravens, but then look at what happened to the Cowboys D on Sunday, after playing the consensus worst team in the league, the Arizona Cardinals.  The Cowboys gave up 182 Rushing Yards in the 1st half alone.  Josh Dobbs had over 80% completion percentage, and the Cards looked like a legitimate threat for 1 game.  I'm not too upset at our performance on D versus the Bills.  It was 16-0 after 3 Quarters, technically a 2 score game.  We were driving in the redzone late in the 3rd quarter to score a TD, and then Howell throws a forced pick.  Josh Allen only had 212 Yds passing and 1TD thrown.  We were right there, and could've made it a competitive game, if EB hadn't left his brain at home before the game.

 

The D shouldn't get the blame for the Bills debacle.  They definitely should get some blame for the Broncos game, since giving up 33 pts to Russell Wilson and a hapless Denver offense isn't ideal, but you're not going to have vaunted defenses anymore in the NFL.  If you can hold your opponent to 21 pts or less (which we were doing until the end of the 3rd Q) against a great team with a Top 3 QB, that's all you can ask for.

Edited September 26, 2023 by samy316

[CobraCommander]

Just now, samy316 said:

 

There are no vaunted defenses anymore in the NFL, just good to occasionally great defenses, depending on the opponent.  Look at Dallas for example.  The entire league thought that the Cowboys defense after the first 2 weeks was a throwback to the '85 Bears, or the 2000 Ravens, but then look at what happened to the Cowboys D on Sunday, after playing the consensus worst team in the league, the Arizona Cardinals.  The Cowboys gave up 182 Rushing Yards in the 1st half alone.  Josh Dobbs had over 80% completion percentage, and the Cards looked like a legitimate threat for 1 game.  I'm not too upset at our performance on D versus the Bills.  It was 16-0 after 3 Quarters, technically a 2 score game.  We were driving in the redzone late in the 3rd quarter to score a TD, and then Howell throws a forced pick.  Josh Allen only had 212 Yds passing and 1TD thrown.  We were right there, and could've made it a competitive game, if EB hadn't left his brain at home before the game.

 

The D shouldn't get the blame for the Bills debacle.  They definitely should get some blame for the Broncos game, since giving up 33 pts to Russell Wilson and a hapless Denver offense isn't ideal, but you're not going to have vaunted defenses anymore in the NFL.  If you can hold your opponent to 21 pts or less (which we were doing until the end of the 3rd Q), that's all you can ask for.

The Cardinals are better than we give them credit for. The Bear are the consensus worst team in the league. If we don't whoop on them like we thought we would the Cards, we have big problems. 

 

But as far as blaming the D I'm with you. They didn't turn the balls over 5 times. 

[zCommander]

50 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I'll argue that Sam needs much more help from JDR and the defense then he's gotten thus far.

 

And I would argue that the D held the Bills to 16 points through 3 qts. The O is the one who needed to help out the D instead. 

[Warhead36]

You can still play good defense but the days of an absolutely dominant defense carrying a team are over. Good defense now is about getting timely stops late in games and generating big plays(i.e. turnovers)as well as holding teams to FGs if/when they do drive on you.

[WilberMarshall]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

I'll argue that Sam needs much more help from JDR and the defense then he's gotten thus far. How many points has our defense scored this season? How many short fields have they given Sam? Hell, they even gave up a hail Mary that could've cost us the game in Denver. Sam has barely played with a lead at all so far this season....some of that is on him but a lot of it is on our so called vaunted defense. This Sunday Sam was down 3-0 before he set foot on the field. Someone needs to put a foot up JDR's ass to get this defense in better position to make plays. I'd be OK if JDR was replaced if we get blown out on Sunday....Steal a coach from SF or Dallas and make them our DC if we don't have someone in house who's better.

I guess you are asking for more from the Defense?

 

But it was their stops that helped the offense get into gear (rhythm) for the 2 comeback wins.

 

How about the offense getting a lead early and watch the Defense get sack-happy and get 9 sacks?

 

We have to play complementary football. 

 

Simples!

 

 

[wit33]

Long season. Hang in there!

 

Opportunity to see how the coaches and players respond to some early adversity. 
 

Obviously not the NFL, but experienced my fair share of getting smacked in the face early in a season as a coach—some teams responded some did not. 
 

Excited to see how the group overall responds, but especially EB. From afar, he seems built for this and will eat up all the hate being spewed his way up. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by wit33

[kingdaddy]

This is from SportsNaut 

 

It’s safe to say the Washington Commanders’ defense is off to another slow start. In the last two games, Jack Del Rio’s group has allowed 785 total yards, with nearly 300 coming on the ground. With how this unit has performed as of late, we anticipate the Philadephia Eagles approaching 30 points in Week 4. One positive, though, Washington’s defense allowed a 14-2 TD-INT ratio with a 99.2 average QB rating in its first eight games last year then turned things around.

 

To be clear, I'm not blaming the defense for the offenses' issues....but I had much higher expectations for them given all of the 1st round talent on that side of the ball. Did any of you see the Bengals just obliterating Stafford last night? That's the kind of pressure I expected from our defense this season. We've seen glimpses of it in weeks one and two but it needs to be earlier and consistent in games to help Sam and the offense out. And yes, the offense certainly needs to be better. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The defense clearly wasn’t the issue on Sunday.  I think it’s more that it’d be nice if this defense made game changing plays against elite opponents. 
 

I’m not sure why I expected them to take over ball games with splash plays but that’s how I envisioned them helping Sam - momentum swinging plays and short fields.

Edited September 26, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Conn]

6 hours ago, CobraCommander said:

The Cardinals are better than we give them credit for. The Bear are the consensus worst team in the league. If we don't whoop on them like we thought we would the Cards, we have big problems. 

 

But as far as blaming the D I'm with you. They didn't turn the balls over 5 times. 

If you don’t think Fields gets right against this D then you don't know Commanders football 

[skins island connection]

 

A few years ago I was approached by a guy who said he had a 24k solid gold chain and he just needed money so he was willing to sell it to me for 40 dollars.

I bit, knowingly, mostly for the fact that I had a good feeling this guy just needed money and i'm sure if he had an idea of its value had it been solid gold the price would have been much higher.

 

 This team got a similar deal with Bienemy. Period. 

Fact 1} In his time in KC he had a prized athletic good QB in Mahomes to work with, making his job so much easier.

Fact 2} His time in Minnesota as RB coach he had Adrian Peterson but a less than capable QB in Favre, who's abilities had withered. 

Fact 3} His 1 year stint in Colorado in 2012 was less than stellar as RB coach.

 

Point is, people are putting way too much stock into Bienemy's abilities, and while this o-line is akin to stale bread crumbling at the slightest touch, people are glossing over

the idea that maybe, just maybe, he's just not that good of an OC. Is he better than Turner? I'm fairly confident that a number of posters on this forum would have done better.

But its hard to ignore the facts that if this team had Mahomes we prob would be 3-0, 

 

There are good OCs in the league and there are good RB coaches in this league, and as i've always said, a good coach makes great players, and not the other way around.

That would be the tail wagging the dog...

 

SIC

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

13 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

SIC

Hope you still have the chain.

 

Now get some rest. 

[DJHJR86]

Bored and decided to see how other QBs from the 2020 draft did in their first 4 starts (or if they didn't start 4 games, the game appearances of their rookie seasons):

 

Pickett:

 

Ridder:

 

Willis:

 

Zappe:

 

Thompson:

 

Howell:

 

As you can see, rookies turn the ball over...a lot.  Howell being the leader with the most turnovers (7) in his first four games isn't as concerning as his sack numbers compared to the others.  He has the most total touchdowns of all of them.  Yes, he can definitely improve on cutting down on his turnovers.  But those sack numbers are a little concerning.  Not something to panic over just yet.  But definitely something to monitor.