The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Renegade7]

38 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Sure, Rivera has made attempts to fix the QB position. But at the end of the day his downfall will largely be because of his inability to stabilize that position, unless Howell really is a diamond in the rough.

 

This is fair, as I'm not going to pretend I haven't been vocal about not recalling a rebuild that didn't involve a rookie QB first year if the rebuild (unless they already had an established veteran) starter. 

 

I don't want to go too deep down the path of revisionist history here, but if we drafted a QB in Ron's first draft that player would be coming close to their prime right now.

[Warhead36]

47 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is fair, as I'm not going to pretend I haven't been vocal about not recalling a rebuild that didn't involve a rookie QB first year if the rebuild (unless they already had an established veteran) starter. 

 

I don't want to go too deep down the path of revisionist history here, but if we drafted a QB in Ron's first draft that player would be coming close to their prime right now.

Hindsight is always 50/50 as the ole ball coach would say but man imagine where we'd be right now if we took Tua or Herbert at #2 overall in 2020. Or heck even Hurts.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RandyHolt]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:03 PM, Warhead36 said:

Its absolutely better without a doubt. But if you don't have QB locked down, it almost doesn't really even matter.

2 core pieces - drafting an LT and then QB are the hallmark of a rebuild and Ron whiffed. He threw top picks at the defense and I am sticking to my guns they will be in bend don't break to slow games down to keep the scores low to give our offense a chance. I gave up long ago thinking our stud Ds were going to be unleashed on QBs. Every new DC we brought in promised to be aggressive and get after QBs. All lies for 2 decades if not 3. We'd go get a Sean Gilbert and he'd do nothing here more than 2 gap and watch our D give up 9 yards on first down and 99 yard drives.

Edited August 10, 2023 by RandyHolt

[redskinss]

8 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

2 core pieces - drafting an LT and then QB are the hallmark of a rebuild and Ron whiffed. He threw top picks at the defense and I am sticking to my guns they will be in bend don't break to slow games down to keep the scores low to give our offense a chance. I gave up long ago thinking our stud Ds were going to be unleashed on QBs. Every new DC we brought in promised to be aggressive and get after QBs. All lies for 2 decades if not 3. We'd go get a Sean Gilbert and he'd do nothing here more than 2 gap and watch our D give up 9 yards on first down and 99 yard drives.

This defense has been very good since del rio took over with some holes that needed to be patched to be elite.

This draft an attempt has been made to patch those holes and del rio has been doing everything short of sky writing that the number one goal is to get more turnovers.

In his last press conference he said the two main things are,  start fast and produce more turnovers, he said it multiple times.

He also said we need this defense to get those turnovers because their dominance could have been the difference inn4 games last year and 4 more wins and we would have been in good shape.

If you think their plan is to sit back and let the other team rack up yards but not score a touchdown, you not only weren't paying too much attention last year (because we were top 5 in yards allowed and number one overall on third down) but you also aren't paying much attention to this teams actions and words this offseason. 

 

[RandyHolt]

Yards allowed... meh that can happen as a result of a team slow playing on both sides. All to accommodate a bottom 10 offense.  3rd downs... how many firsts did we give up on 2nd down?

 

Sacks and turnovers are MY measuring stick for aggressiveness. I was paying attention. Weren't we LAST in the league in both FF and INTs? If not we were damn close. I have more bad predictions to digest, drafting 2 DBs with our first 2 picks likely won't change that significantly. Hope I am wrong.

 

Again I am talking about ~3 decades of a general pattern of watching studs up front rushing in contain lanes and 2 gapping. Carlos corners playing off. Blitzing finally read: predictably once backed into the redzone, only to bring 1, delayed? Yet only a few playoff wins over that time?

 

Our RR defense plays soft to start games and our offense is ice cold and falls behind in the first quarter far too often for an elite defense allowed to dictate to offenses. Its too bad in the days of advanced stats we don't have defensive play calls documented. Lets see if Ron ever rolls the dice and unleashes an aggressive defense to start a game this year, and uses our team to its strengths. He built the team to win games on D by throwing top picks there his entire tenure. Will he try?  I don't think he will.

Edited August 10, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

RPOs will be key in the Commanders’ offense — and Sam Howell is thrilled

 

Most days at practice, after stretching and before team drills, the Washington Commanders’ yellow-jerseyed quarterbacks run to the middle of the field. Often, their drills incorporate elements of run-pass option plays (RPOs). In shotgun, if a running back is standing next to him, the quarterback will get the snap and immediately stick the ball out toward the running back’s belly. With his eyes up, reading the defense, the quarterback can decide whether to run (handoff) or pass.

 

 

For more than a decade, RPOs have been a powerful force in high school and college football. They simplify the game for quarterbacks and force defenders to hesitate. They take advantage of a subtle difference between lower levels and the pros: In college, offensive linemen can legally block up to three yards downfield on passing plays; in the NFL, it’s up to one yard.

But in the past few years, as the spread offense has, uh, spread throughout the NFL, the RPO has taken hold there, too. In 2018, Philadelphia used RPOs to help upset New England in Super Bowl LII. Last year, Washington upset Philadelphia in part because the Commanders’ defense disrupted the Eagles’ RPOs by attacking the “mesh point” — the spot where the quarterback and running back meet — to continually force the ball out of the hands of dynamic quarterback Jalen Hurts.

 

During camp, it has become clear that RPOs will be a major part of the West Coast scheme offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy brought with him from Kansas City. The Chiefs used RPOs often and to great effect under Bieniemy, and Sam Howell’s experience with them in college at North Carolina suggests the Commanders may lean on them even more.

 

Howell, who will start the preseason opener Friday night in Cleveland, seems nearly giddy to show his ability with RPOs.

 

“That’s pretty much all we did in college,” he said. “All of our run game stuff in college was RPO stuff, and last year’s [Commanders] offense wasn’t near as much as that. But in Eric Bieniemy’s offense, there is a lot of RPO stuff, and a lot of stuff that I’m very familiar with. Similar concepts, some of the same exact concepts that we ran at UNC. So I’m very confident in my RPO game … and I think you can really make defenses wrong in the run game when you have the RPO ability.”

By design, it can be difficult to tell the difference between an RPO, play action from shotgun and “zone read,” which can look like an RPO but only has the options of run (keeper) or run (handoff). One of the main tenets of an RPO is that it incorporates a run and a quick pass, such as a slant. The quarterback’s job is to read the key defender, often a linebacker or an end, and decide whether to run or pass. If he passes, he must get the ball out quickly so the offensive line, which is run blocking, isn’t penalized for having an ineligible player downfield.

 

Center Nick Gates said every player is accustomed to RPOs because they’re so common at lower levels. When Gates played at Nebraska, where the offense is about as old-school as it gets in college, he used the concept from 2015 to 2017. For RPOs, a lineman has to get into blocks slower by taking choppier steps up to his defender — but sometimes, if he’s downfield and engaged in blocks, a referee doesn’t call the penalty. Everything hinges on the quarterback’s decisiveness.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/10/sam-howell-commanders-rpos-offense/

 

[RandyHolt]

All the RPO talk sure makes it sound like our offense will become modernized. I had always been annoyed at stubborn old school OCs that refused to cater their playbook to their QBs strengths... it was always their bible or the highway. Draft a mobile QB and then make them strictly a pocket passer. Draft a QB with a big long slow delivery and make them throw WCO short passes. Oh and drop an 800 page playbook on the kid. We know who that victim was. I have always felt the high QB fail rate was not solely because the QB sucks. For every failed QB there was an OC that also failed. The difference, the OC just moved on to his next gig without any discussion about how the hell did he fumble away the top rated QB coming out of college. The QB? Labeled a bust forever. Its all your fault.

 

Luckily the game has changed and QBs don't have to hold a clipboard for 3 years before a team can get a return on that investment. Ironically it was Ron that embraced Cam's strengths and broke new ground, which has changed the game.

Edited August 11, 2023 by RandyHolt

[zCommander]

Slow start but expected. Howell was good. 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

As Doc Walker would say: he didn't wet the bed.

 

I don't think his performance is indicative at all of how he'll play in the regular season good or bad.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

39 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Slow start but expected. Howell was good. 

 

 

 

 

Which one was the drop?

[MisterPinstripe]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Which one was the drop?

I know Bates dropped one, but I thought there was a penalty on it anyway. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Which one was the drop?

 

It was raining and Bates couldn't hang into it by the sideline. It hit his hands, and then as he tried to bring it down it slipped out. Bates wasn't ready for a slippier ball.

1 minute ago, MisterPinstripe said:

I know Bates dropped one, but I thought there was a penalty on it anyway. 

There was, I think it was a holding or false start on the RT Wylie

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

I know Bates dropped one, but I thought there was a penalty on it anyway. 

 

4 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

It was raining and Bates couldn't hang into it by the sideline. It hit his hands, and then as he tried to bring it down it slipped out. Bates wasn't ready for a slippier ball.

There was, I think it was a holding or false start on the RT Wylie

 

 

A penalty, if accepted, would negate the incompletion, right?...so the pass to Bates and the pass to Gibson--both incompletions and both had penalties--wouldn't count, I'm assuming.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

I think Paulsen mis-spoke.

 

The drop was negated, so it did not factor into his 9/12

 

I remember him throwing two balls outta bounds as throw aways, and one where he was under heavy pressure where he had to force a pass to gibby that never got there and was short. You can call that one a throw away if you want, he was trying to dump it off to avoid a sack.

[moondog]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I think Paulsen mis-spoke.

 

The drop was negated, so it did not factor into his 9/12

 

I remember him throwing two balls outta bounds as throw aways, and one where he was under heavy pressure where he had to force a pass to gibby that never got there and was short. You can call that one a throw away if you want, he was trying to dump it off to avoid a sack.

Even that pass to AG would have gotten there and was the absolute right call but got tipped. I have to believe if it wasn’t tipped it gets there and AG is able to win a 1:1 to get some extra yards. 

[zCommander]

7 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

A penalty, if accepted, would negate the incompletion, right?...so the pass to Bates and the pass to Gibson--both incompletions and both had penalties--wouldn't count, I'm assuming.

 

I am assuming, Grant is looking at each throw of the ball and how Howell threw them to the intended target regardless of if penalty or not. This is why he says Howell didn't misfire aka under throwing or over throwing them. Also, not taking a sack and knowing when to throw away the ball. That is smart football.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by zCommander

[RandyHolt]

Advanced stats should track smart throwaways and not just solely track it as a negative on completion %. It should increase any QB rating metric.

[Gurgeh]

7 hours ago, zCommander said:

Slow start but expected. Howell was good. 

 

 

 

I thought he did well but I worry that playing behind that OL is going to mess with his head as the season goes on.

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

 

I thought he did well but I worry that playing behind that OL is going to mess with his head as the season goes on.

 

His senior year in college he had no OL either. His head will be fine. His body is what I worry about though.

[Skinsinparadise]

I blasted the O line on a different thread.  But I am feeling great after game 1.  Much more important to find a QB this season than the O line being good.  Granted the O line limits Howell so alas there is some correlation.  But loved what I saw from Howell last night.  If he can play well in the rain with a crap O line, that's clearly a good sign.

 

 

 

[mhd24]

Howell Highlights...

 

 

[EmirOfShmo]

 

[Daniel.redskins]

Howell and Brissett both played well last night.  Our QB room is much better than last year.  They will be as good as the o-line allows them.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I blasted the O line on a different thread.  But I am feeling great after game 1.  Much more important to find a QB this season than the O line being good.  

This is where I’m at as well. I think it’s obvious that Sam is a starter in this league. How good can he be? Time will tell. But that is my most important takeaway. Finding a quality starting QB has been our kryptonite. 
 

OL was terrible. Let’s hope they get better with reps. I know their upside is limited but let’s hope that’s their floor. Maybe we get lucky with a camp cut or two.