The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[MartinC]

30 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I'm not so sure you can find a QB3 that isn't either Jake Fromm w/ a mustache, or a dude who can run but completely lacks the ability to throw.

 

Fair to a point - its hard to have a QB3 who you would be excited to start a game, not often that guy turns out to be a Brock Purdy. But Fromm is just awful - when he played for the Giants he was so bad they literally took a knee on a 3rd down rather than risk asking him to even just hand the ball off! There HAS to be a better option as a young practice squad guy who might possibly have even the slightest chance of becoming a viable NFL backup at some point - because Fromm just can't play at an NFL level.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Snyder tended to give veteran coaches he respected longer leashes, so doubt he would have fired Rivera after 3 years. Plus, Ron gave the team a level of respectability that Snyder would have seen as a shield of sorts during all the drama and investigations, which would have provided him an additional reason/rationalization not to fire him.

I typed out a response to agree and add additional context.  Then I deleted it because Dan's not here and I don't want to take up more space discussing the ass hat anymore.  

[DWinzit]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Fair to a point - its hard to have a QB3 who you would be excited to start a game, not often that guy turns out to be a Brock Purdy. But Fromm is just awful - when he played for the Giants he was so bad they literally took a knee on a 3rd down rather than risk asking him to even just hand the ball off! There HAS to be a better option as a young practice squad guy who might possibly have even the slightest chance of becoming a viable NFL backup at some point - because Fromm just can't play at an NFL level.

YES! There must be options out there that can play the position even just slightly with an opportunity to succeed. Even if next year not this season but Fromm sucks. Heck, a guy that can just run would be a better option as we could use them on Teams and on certain plays if needed.

[Conn]

18 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I'm not so sure you can find a QB3 that isn't either Jake Fromm w/ a mustache, or a dude who can run but completely lacks the ability to throw.

We already have a developing young starter and a steady, developed mid-aged veteran. If we’re gonna have a 3rd QB on the PS and the options are passers like Fromm, I’d rather get someone with some running ability at least.
 

If you have to break the glass and pull out that emergency QB, it may as well be someone who can create and surprise in some manner. EB could probably get creative with someone like that, if the situation was desperate enough. A barely-warm body like Fromm gives you basically nothing if the top two guys go down in a promising season. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah for real. Gruden had an above average QB in Cousins for three of those seasons and a league average one in Smith for half of another.

 

You put 2015-2017 Cousins on this team and we have a legit shot at the NFC championship game.

Gruden also managed to hire/retain Haslett/Joe Barry/Greg Manusky to oversee PITIFUL defenses for his entire tenure.  

 

How much of this was Bruce and how much was Jay?  Well, in interviews at the time Jay said it was his call.  Maybe he was lying.  Maybe he was pressured.  I dunno. But I'm going to go with Jay was at least complicit with Barry and Manusky, and it wasn't entirely forced on him.  In his "don't forget about me" podcast/radio tour (which has fallen on deaf ears, dude is still unemployed I believe) I don't recall him ever saying he was forced to hire awful DCs.  

 

If they had found an average DC instead of literally 3 of the worst 10 statistical DCs in the HISTORY OF THE NFL then Jay's winning percentage would have been better.

 

That 2016 team should have gone to the playoffs and won a game or two, if not been a favorite to make the NFC Championship game.  If the Patriots coaching staff had that team they might have been in the superbowl.  But Jay and Barry gagged away win after win after win.  Hell, McVay was even on that team and the Rams thought well enough of him to hire him as HC AFTER the team gagged away the season.  Which showed where the NFL brass put the blame: squarely on Jay, at least from a coaching perspective. Sure, Dan/Bruce were there, but that team had the players to make a run. And Jay and his coaching staff biffed it up. 

 

I will never forgive Jay for that.  It's when my mind was made up he was a useless POS coach.  Everything after just confirmed it.  

[Chris 44]

Just now, Conn said:

We already have a developing young starter and a steady, developed mid-aged veteran. If we’re gonna have a 3rd QB on the PS and the options are passers like Fromm, I’d rather get someone with some running ability at least.
 

If you have to break the glass and pull out that emergency QB, it may as well be someone who can create and surprise in some manner. EB could probably get creative with someone like that, if the situation was desperate enough. A barely-warm body like Fromm gives you basically nothing if the top two guys go down in a promising season. 

Only half joking by throwing out the name Logan Thomas as the emergency QB

[Conn]

15 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Only half joking by throwing out the name Logan Thomas as the emergency QB

I’d honestly rather go wildcat with someone like Curtis Samuel, than mess with Thomas at QB if it came to it. His agility is gone and overall athleticism has definitely been sapped by injuries (though he seems to be in better shape in that regard now than this time last offseason, understandably). 

[PigskinRedskin]

Hoping to see this connection a lot this season:
 

 

 

[dyst]

I’m hyped about Howell.

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

Only half joking by throwing out the name Logan Thomas as the emergency QB

Good ol Tress throws a tight spiral and it might be a bit fun to have teams wondering if we're running, throwing or punting.

Career passer rating of 119 and 100% completion rate

Edited July 27, 2023 by bowhunter

[wit33]

On 7/26/2023 at 12:07 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

The issue with this, and the reason each team has their own group which does statistical analysis, is all of those require somebody to "watch tape" and make a determination.  

 

That's why the NFL is harder to statisticalize than the other sports, at least at certain positions.  Baseball is the easiest.  Football is the hardest.  Basketball is somewhere in the middle.  

A few statistics generally accepted as good:

 

1k yard WR and RB

10 sacks 

4K plus passing yards

30 plus TDs

10 plus receiving tds 

100 catches 

 

Nothing really for an Olineman

 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Gruden also managed to hire/retain Haslett/Joe Barry/Greg Manusky to oversee PITIFUL defenses for his entire tenure.  

 

How much of this was Bruce and how much was Jay?  Well, in interviews at the time Jay said it was his call.  Maybe he was lying.  Maybe he was pressured.  I dunno. But I'm going to go with Jay was at least complicit with Barry and Manusky, and it wasn't entirely forced on him.  In his "don't forget about me" podcast/radio tour (which has fallen on deaf ears, dude is still unemployed I believe) I don't recall him ever saying he was forced to hire awful DCs.  

 

If they had found an average DC instead of literally 3 of the worst 10 statistical DCs in the HISTORY OF THE NFL then Jay's winning percentage would have been better.

 

That 2016 team should have gone to the playoffs and won a game or two, if not been a favorite to make the NFC Championship game.  If the Patriots coaching staff had that team they might have been in the superbowl.  But Jay and Barry gagged away win after win after win.  Hell, McVay was even on that team and the Rams thought well enough of him to hire him as HC AFTER the team gagged away the season.  Which showed where the NFL brass put the blame: squarely on Jay, at least from a coaching perspective. Sure, Dan/Bruce were there, but that team had the players to make a run. And Jay and his coaching staff biffed it up. 

 

I will never forgive Jay for that.  It's when my mind was made up he was a useless POS coach.  Everything after just confirmed it.  

The offense scored too many FGs that season and not enough TDs. The offense failed to be elite and carry a bad defense. Yes, I blame Kirk for most part for not throwing enough tds or being risky enough in red zone. 
 

Elite at moving the football between the 20s though, no doubt. 
 

Full disclosure, I was Gruden guy in terms of his game planning— he was one of the rare coaches who consistently out schemed other coordinators. 
 

I have no other response lol Football season is here!!!!

Edited July 27, 2023 by wit33

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Full disclosure, I was Gruden guy in terms of his game to game and was one of the rare coaches who consistently out schemed other coordinators. 

That wasn't Gruden.  That was McVay.  And when he left, all Gruden did was run the same 5 plays to no effect for 3 years until he was fired.

 

You're right, the offense didn't score enough TDs. But they basically were 10th in the NFL tied with Buffalo and Pittsburgh with 24.9 points per game. The other effect of the lousy defense is the offense had to go 80 yards all the damn time because when the defense wasn't letting team's score, they were letting them get to the 40 before they punted so the offense was starting in the shadow of their own goal posts all the damn time. The Steelers went 11-5 with the same number of points per game.  Why?  Tomlin >>>>>>>>>>> Gruden.  

 

Gruden was a horrendous coach. I'm sorry you were a Gruden guy. But the league has passed judgement on him, and agreed, he's not a HC, and not even an OC candidate anymore.  And when guys like Mike Nolan conitnue to get opportunities based on horrendous track records and their name, Jay should have also. 

 

I'll end the Gruden debate here.   It's football time and Gruden is exactly where he should be: out of the league playing a lot of golf.   

 

[Conn]

Let’s get back on track 

 

 

[wit33]

4 minutes ago, Conn said:

Let’s get back on track 

 

 

 

Can't wait to hear what the overall consensus is, but that take sounds like a SB is within reach 😜

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Howell is out there throwing darts, Snyder is gone, and y’all in here mumbling about Jay Gruden. 😆

 

Let’s put some pads on and get this train rolling!!

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Howell is out there throwing darts, Snyder is gone, and y’all in here mumbling about Jay Gruden. 😆

 

Let’s put some pads on and get this train rolling!!

I have PTJGSD

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have PTJGSD

 

Sounds similar to my flashbacks of bad QB play

 

 

When is the group therapy meeting?

[Conn]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

When is the group therapy meeting?

You’ve been in it. According to your user profile, since at least 2020! 

[Voice_of_Reason]

37 minutes ago, Conn said:

You’ve been in it. According to your user profile, since at least 2020! 

Poster: “my name is @FootballZombie Anderson I have a problem.”

 

ES:

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[SkinsFTW]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It's when my mind was made up he was a useless POS coach.  Everything after just confirmed it.  

 

I was done with him his first season after that week 3 Thursday night game where he said dumb stuff that I can't remember but it was basically the players were tired after playing Sunday.

4 hours ago, Conn said:

Let’s get back on track 

 

 

 

It will be funny that immediately after Doofus Dan is gone the team has a franchise QB and wins 11 games.

 

I still have that DDPTSD though and won't believe it until I see it. All I can see is RR winning his regular 7-8 games max.

[SoCalSkins]

6 hours ago, PigskinRedskin said:

Hoping to see this connection a lot this season:
 

 

 

The cameraman is way too close to the sideline. We don’t need Terry or someone else getting hurt for a better clip on social media. Screw that. 

[srtman04]

38 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

I was done with him his first season after that week 3 Thursday night game where he said dumb stuff that I can't remember but it was basically the players were tired after playing Sunday.

 

It will be funny that immediately after Doofus Dan is gone the team has a franchise QB and wins 11 games.

 

I still have that DDPTSD though and won't believe it until I see it. All I can see is RR winning his regular 7-8 games max.

 

Yeah you never heard things like "throwing darts"  or "perfect deep balls"  when Taylor was here.  You didn't really hear those things with Wentz either.   I think this is going to be a fun year!  

[NoCalMike]

Hard not to be hyped about Howell at this point, but then again it's only Day 2 and they aren't even in pads yet, and I assume Howell is mostly showing off the physical attributes we all knew he had anyway.  Eager to see him under center in some games, even if they are preseason games.

[NoCalMike]

18 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

Yeah you never heard things like "throwing darts"  or "perfect deep balls"  when Taylor was here.  You didn't really hear those things with Wentz either.   I think this is going to be a fun year!  

 

I could be wrong, but from memory, the biggest issue with Wentz during camp last season was his lack of grasp of the offense. Wentz could always chuck the ball, but what we are hearing about Howell as far as being in command, making reads, knowing where and when to throw the ball feels like night & day from last season and Wentz.

[SkinsFTW]

Too bad Aaron Rodgers had to go to the Jets this year. It would be really cool to see all this on Hard Knocks in a few months with the new owner and all the fans showing up for the first time in a decade or more and possibly also finally having a real franchise QB on top of it all.