The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

I don't think they cut Paul.  Daniels (and to a much lesser extent) Stromberg are going to redshirt this year.  They'll be inactive every game.  You need at least one capable backup guard.  The coaches seemed to like him coming into form last year.  Maybe they cut Scott to keep it at 10, but I don't think there is anyway they don't keep 10 OL.  The gameday backups would be Larsen, Lucas, and Paul.

 

To redshirt them they still have to carry 11. I jsut don't think they carry 11. maybe one of those 11 can make it to the practice squad. I was thinking Daniels maybe jsut becauuse he was the latest picked but I honestly don;t think he can. So if you want to keep them they have to be on the 53. So far Ron and team have not kept more than 10 ever. Maybe not Paul, but they will have to lose one of them. And there is always a first time so you may end up being right they keep 11. 

 

 

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Regarding WR, I don't think there is anyway we keep 7.  Milne probably sticks because he can theoretically play all WR positions and can return (at least catch the ball) despite being no threat on returns.  Unless someone just jumps out, if we keep 6 WRs, then Kemp stays as a strict ST.

 

Not really thinking they keep 7 just saying they could. But I am cetain they keep 6. Despite some of the print fodder, they know this is a passing game. And WRs get dinged up and/or need rest. I really see 6 with at least 5 active. Milne is not going anywhere I believe. He did some returning and again they will want 6. 

 

 

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Regarding DL, they aren't cutting Henry (5th round pick).  Mathis & Ridgeway are coming off injuries.  Obada flashed last year and can play all over the line.  Maybe Toohill gets cut, but I think Henry is redshirted while Andre Jones (7th rounder) goes to the Practice squad.

 

I think we were in agreement here. Sorry if I am missing a point. 

 

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Apke could stick considering he's an elite ST.  However, I don't think we have room as the top 5 are locked in (Curl, Forrest, Quan, Butler, Reeves).

 

I think Apke is staying. He is a STs stud and can play S if he has to. He is likely last in but I think he makes the final 53. 

 

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

CB depth is a major need.  Quan can slide over there as a slot defender, but I'd feel better if we had someone more reliable than Danny Johnson (who is OK).

 

Depends on the rookies. If they ball, it will not be a problem. And Quan is not the only one who can cover slot if you needed it. I would never turn down a stud CB ever. But I like who they have. Especailly if Forbes is as advertized and BSJ can stay mostly healthy. They should also benifit from a front that should, I say should be better than last year. We need more TOs for the offense. That ball starts bouncing our way it could be crazy. 

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

I think Apke is staying. He is a STs stud and can play S if he has to. He is likely last in but I think he makes the final 53. 

 

That Monkey paw I bought might finally be kicking in!

Edited July 25, 2023 by FootballZombie

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The same logic though defeats any take, optimistic or pessmistic. We can jump on the defense thread and say temper the enthusiasm because we don't know they are going to be good until it actually unfolds.

I think there is a difference when a unit is pretty much intact.  A couple of pieces changed on defense, but not a whole lot.  I sortof apply "objects in motion will stay in motion" logic.  The unit should be about the same as it was, given that possibly only 1 or 2 starters will be different than in years past.

 

That's entirely different with the OL, as Leno is the only guy in the same spot as last year.  Ergo, I don't think you can have any significant idea how the unit will perform.

 

Also, with OL, scheme is just so important.  Unless you're Trent Williams who can play in any scheme, there are guys who excel in different types of schemes.  And what we had last year was both bad players and a scheme mismatch.  

 

Will this year be better?  I don't know.  But they have gotten younger, more athletic players, and a scheme that tends to use that. 

 

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I thought you loved Sean McVay?  the argument that a good coordinator simply works around that unit and makes it passable certainly didn't apply to him and the Rams last year.  and heck now only is he from the WCO branch, but his grandfather worked with Bill Walsh.

 

 

I do like McVay. 

 

I guess you missed the part where I said it was EB and Howell together.  McVay was down QBs also, and there was only so much he can do.

 

It's one of the reasons I gave Scott Turner a pass for so long: He had to deal with Haskins, Peg Leg, Kyle Allen, 16 snaps of Fitzy, and a whole lot of Heinicke.  There's literally only so much you can do with that.  Same with McVay.  Stafford got hurt, and that was that.  

 

You can scheme around a bad OL with a good QB.  You can't scheme around anything with a bad QB.  

[bowhunter]

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

WR (6) - No way they keep just 5. I think it's at least 6 and maybe 7. I will admit to not watching offseason enough to kno who they are. Kemp seems to have made some noise but after that I am not sure who they would keep.

 

I agree, but feel that WR #6 better be able to contribute in a big way. Kazmeir Allen is my bet, just for the spark a true return specialist can bring

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Even though he's undersized he's physical.   He's awesome against the run, was only a shade behind Brian Branch in the last draft on that front.

 

And apparently, this team loves him as a blitzer.  i think he's a great addition.  I admit though I am biased since he was maybe my biggest man crush on a player before that draft as to players I fell for when I was cramming that last week.

 

Agree the safeties should be fun.  Even Percy Butler I've heard looked good in minicamp. 

 

He's really grown on me.  Still not totally sold on his ball skills, but also don't feel like it's an important limitation.  He's the most athletic DB on the team, maybe the most fluid athlete period, although we've got some studs at WR.  His hips and his explosiveness are off the charts good, and I was really blown away by his ability to pounce on crossing route throws that were well in front of the receiver when it seemed like he was a step behind as the ball was released.  Similar display of explosiveness and ability to change directions on the way he runs under screen blocks.  He is a special athlete and it feels pretty great to have souped up our secondary with some elite athletes.  We don't have to try and make do, we've got the guys to pretty much cover any type of offensive skill player now.  I think they're going to be able to strap teams up and the rush is going to be a major source of stress for QBs/OLs.

 

I suspect we're going to play a lot more cover 1 and cover 0 this year, and I don't think I've ever had more confidence in our options for man covering slot weapons because of Quan and Juice.  Should still be able to show light fronts and defend the run too because of Quan and Curl.

 

The blitzing is a really interesting wrinkle, and will kind of flow naturally from the man coverage looks we can show QBs.  It's not surprising to me that it's something he'd excel at since I did see the way he closes on screens.  He's a missile.  The best OL in the league will have trouble getting that kind of blitz picked up when they're also dealing with Payne/Allen/Chase/Montez.  I think we're going to lead the league in QB hits.

 

Ron and his regime have had a lot of trouble building the offense, and it's still not looking great.  But I think they've build a masterpiece of a defense.  I think Jamin takes a big step forward as a leader for the group, the front is as good and dominant as advertised, and the secondary becomes one of the best in the league.

[NoCalMike]

It would be such a boon for Harris's tenure as owner to begin if Sam Howell turns out to be franchise QB worthy.  If not, then he will be immediately tasked with something the previous owner couldn't figure out during his time in the front office and the one time he lucked into a late round pick at least appearing to be a potential franchise (mid-tier) QB he poisoned that well almost immediately. 

[Going Commando]

Franchise QBs are made as much as found.  There is a reason that franchises like the Steelers and Packers and Cowboys and Eagles always seem to have one. It's because those organizations establish the conditions for success and development every time they have to go out and get a new player or coaching staff.  They are fundamentally stable.  They have a competitive identity that is rock solid.  And they formulate plans for how to build and, this is the most important part: they see those plans through.

 

If Josh Harris wants to foster the kind of stability and continuity of identity and vision necessary to develop a franchise QB, then he has to start by breaking the cycle of instability that has defined Washington since Gibbs first retired.  For me, that means not firing Ron and his front office.  I think they've managed to create some hard won stability and culture and I have no interest in seeing that thrown in the garbage due to an ownership change.  I also don't fully trust this ownership group's ability to pick out executive and coaching talent because I think Josh Harris did a horrible job of doing that with the 76ers over his first decade of ownership of that franchise.  I'm not interested in going through ten years of ownership growing pains while he figures out how to be a patient and reliable NFL owner capable of keeping key leaders and decision makers in place long term.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

He's really grown on me.  Still not totally sold on his ball skills, but also don't feel like it's an important limitation.  He's the most athletic DB on the team, maybe the most fluid athlete period, although we've got some studs at WR.  His hips and his explosiveness are off the charts good, and I was really blown away by his ability to pounce on crossing route throws that were well in front of the receiver when it seemed like he was a step behind as the ball was released.  Similar display of explosiveness and ability to change directions on the way he runs under screen blocks.  He is a special athlete and it feels pretty great to have souped up our secondary with some elite athletes.  We don't have to try and make do, we've got the guys to pretty much cover any type of offensive skill player now.  I think they're going to be able to strap teams up and the rush is going to be a major source of stress for QBs/OLs.

 

 

It's been awhile since I watched him.  3 picks.  They touted his ball skills when they drafted him.   If I recall his 3 picks weren't easy ones -- I recall his teammate Sydney Brown had his share of balls that were just thrown to him, easy picks.   His only weakness that stood out to me when watching him is when they played him outside corner, he was "meh" on that front IMO.  Keep him inside where he was almost always around the ball.  Like Branch he's a bit undersized but yet tackles so fundamentally well, wraps guys up, finishes his tackles so well that he's a beast against the run.  I think he's good also if they play him as a post safety.

 

4 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Franchise QBs are made as much as found.  There is a reason that franchises like the Steelers and Packers and Cowboys and Eagles always seem to have one. It's because those organizations establish the conditions for success and development every time they have to go out and get a new player or coaching staff.  They are fundamentally stable.  They have a competitive identity that is rock solid.  And they formulate plans for how to build and, this is the most important part: they see those plans through.

 

If Josh Harris wants to foster the kind of stability and continuity of identity and vision necessary to develop a franchise QB, then he has to start by breaking the cycle of instability that has defined Washington since Gibbs first retired.  For me, that means not firing Ron and his front office.  I think they've managed to create some hard won stability and culture and I have no interest in seeing that thrown in the garbage due to an ownership change.  I also don't fully trust this ownership group's ability to pick out executive and coaching talent because I think Josh Harris did a horrible job of doing that with the 76ers over his first decade of ownership of that franchise.  I'm not interested in going through ten years of ownership growing pains while he figures out how to be a patient and reliable NFL owner capable of keeping key leaders and decision makers in place long term.

 

 Supporting cast and patience helps develop a QB.  But also thinking of those examples the intangibles are so key to that spot.  Hurts is through the roof on that front, a good guy, leader, workaholic.  I wasn't a big Pickett guy but was good with him but also touted his intangibles over the others in that class based on what I've read about him.  Will see about him.  Dak with a similar reputation.  On and on. 

 

I read an article about how the Eagles fell for Hurts and some of it focused on his personality and drive and leadership skills.  Those teams likely factor those qualiies greatly.  Our past owner would have his hands in many of the QB decisions over his tenure -- and as Jay Gruden pointed out, Dan interferred yet didn't do his homework at all.  And Dan's first move at QB was famously dumping Brad Johnson (high intangibles and smarts) for Jeff George.  That says it all.

 

The major wildcard with Qbs as Arians points out in his book about the spot is you can't really tell how fast young QBs process the field until you have them in your building.  He's point was more or less all these guys can process -- do protections, read defenses on and on.  But you need to do it in a split second or two.  And that more than anything seperates the winners from losers at that spot.  He also likens footwork to working on your golf swing.  You need that work ethic to work on it constantly to be great.  It's a constant neverending process.  The great ones put in the work, the ones who fail often do not.  Ditto game preparation -- defensive coordinatos will go nuts preparing during the week to foil the offense-Qb.  The QB in turn needs to work just as hard in turn to counter punch that.

 

Shanny said you don't really know enough about the young QBs as to their preparation among other things until they are in the building.  But once you do, you know fast.  He talked about that ironically in the context of Kirk.   Gibbs once said something similar.

 

My point is based on what I've read Howell does have the intangibles.  That burning desire to be great and work ethic to match.   Maybe he doesn't have Hurts leadership skills but that's OK.  I don't think Ron did a great job in giving him a supporting cast as to the O line.  But putting that aside, It feels like the unknown variable is one that Arians expresses is almost impossible to teach, you got it or you don't have it, which is can he see the field quickly and process everything fast.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Weren't we one of the least blitzing teams in the league?

[Skinsinparadise]

Listened to Keim's latest podcast.   Little gossip on the Wentz deal.

 

A.  Rivera wanted Wentz and presented that to Dan.

 

B.  But Dan put pressure on Rivera once Rivera's like of Wentz was known.  And in particular on the day the deal was done, Dan put some heavy presssure on Ron to get it done that particular day.

 

C.  Keim suggested the overpay on that day was driven to an extent by that pressure from Dan.  And the Colts took advantage of it because they knew Ron was under pressure to do it.

 

D.  Then Keim hinted to stay tune because more of that story will come out down the road or something like that.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listened to Keim's latest podcast.   Little gossip on the Wentz deal.

 

A.  Rivera wanted Wentz and presented that to Dan.

 

B.  But Dan put pressure on Rivera once Rivera's like of Wentz was known.  And in particular on the day the deal was done, Dan put some heavy presssure on Ron to get it done that particular day.

 

C.  Keim suggested the overpay on that day was driven to an extent by that pressure from Dan.  And the Colts took advantage of it because they knew Ron was under pressure to do it.

 

D.  Then Keim hinted to stay tune because more of that story will come out down the road or something like that.

I am very interested to hear more on this story and others now that Danny is out. 

 

I get the feeling that some of these stories will lead to more respect for RR and others that have been within the organization.

 

Sure Indy took advantage, just like so many other organizations that were trade partners. FAs as well, who either signed here or used Dan to drive up their value then signed elsewhere. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

This the QB thread? lol..,

[Conn]

8 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

This the QB thread? lol..,

I think gossip about the trade for last year’s QB is fair game for now 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I am very interested to hear more on this story and others now that Danny is out. 

 

I get the feeling that some of these stories will lead to more respect for RR and others that have been within the organization.

 

Sure Indy took advantage, just like so many other organizations that were trade partners. FAs as well, who either signed here or used Dan to drive up their value then signed elsewhere. 

 

Bram sort of threw the blame back on Ron when he and Keim were discussing it -- saying Wentz was Ron's guy and he pushed it to Dan and Dan of course got eager and wanted Wentz once Ron pushed it.  But Bram seems to think its on Ron.  It's not that Keim didn't put it on Ron either but he did put the exorbitant price they paid on Dan.

 

That's not a shocker for me I speculated before about the big price being a Dan driven thing because it fits how he rolls. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

No surprise to me that Snyder insist we get Wentz right away and overpay to do it. That's been his MO since day one. Trading a 3rd rounder for Mark Brunell. A 2nd for Donovan McNabb. etc. etc. He has no idea how to play the value game and utilize/manage assets.

[Skinsinparadise]

Sticking to our current point about the QBs, also from Keim's podcast.

 

Brissett was the dude who pushed for the organized workout in Florida with Sam-the Wrs, etc.

 

And they've heard that Brissett has been really hands on and great as a mentor for Howell 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

[SkinsFTW]

Apparently, the above stat doesn't really tell you much of anything. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

I think gossip about the trade for last year’s QB is fair game for now 

What about cornerbacks, safeties, and the DLine? lol…

[SkinsFTW]

25 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

What about cornerbacks, safeties, and the DLine? lol…

 

Why would that be debated in the QB thread tho?

 

Sam's Club or go find another thread bro!!!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Why would that be debated in the QB thread tho?

 

Sam's Club or go find another thread bro!!!

did you not read this page of the thread? 

[XxSpearheadxX]

On 7/25/2023 at 7:25 AM, Going Commando said:

 For me, that means not firing Ron and his front office.  I think they've managed to create some hard won stability and culture and I have no interest in seeing that thrown in the garbage due to an ownership change. 

Ron strikes me as a man that knows when to step back and learn. He controls his ego well. I also am not in a rush to see him ushered out but would love to see him slowly step back into an administrator role and just lend his experience to the younger coaches/talent scouts

[RandyHolt]

On 7/25/2023 at 9:46 AM, Koolblue13 said:

Weren't we one of the least blitzing teams in the league?

I have gotten push back on saying that over the years.

 

If we were or not, its not always the point. Bringing a 5th a LB on a delay all predictably once we backed into the redzone isn't much of a blitz and is easily snuffed out. Its not just how many times we blitzed; its how many you bring, when you bring it, and who you bring. Bring our crappy cover SS, or blitz our best cover corner?

 

I remember in preseason last year JDR blitzed early in an opening drive. Since coaches never show anything in preseason I figured we were in for another low effective blitz count season. Predictably blitzing leaves the DBs out to dry. Its all about the success of said blitz.

Edited July 26, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Conn]

If our defense is as good as many here think it is (especially the secondary), then today was a very good sign for Howell’s growth. Sounds like they’re feasting on Fromm, getting hands on Brissett’s passes, and almost entirely getting diced up by Howell (just on day one). Now the pressure isn’t able to knock him on his ass so practice reps will never tell the full story, especially against our defense. But still, good first steps for Howell this camp. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Conn

[zCommander]

Commanders QB Sam Howell couldn't 'care less' about outside opinions on his chances of success

 

 

One thing Howell is hearing at the team's facility is some familiar offensive concepts. New offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy is bringing with him a playbook chock full of run-pass option calls, something Howell did a lot of in college at North Carolina but which was not a major part of Commanders OC Scott Turner's offense last year.

 

"Yeah, RPOs, man, that's pretty much all we did in college," Howell said. "So all of our run-game stuff in college was RPO stuff, and last year's offense wasn't near as much of that. But in (Bieniemy's) offense there is a lot of RPO stuff and a lot of stuff that I'm very familiar with -- similar concepts, some of the exact same concepts that we ran at UNC.

 

"So I'm very confident in my RPO game, and I'm excited to have the ability to do that, because I love that type of stuff and I think you can really make defenses wrong in the run game when you have the RPO ability, so I'm excited that EB's kinda brought that stuff over to us."

 

More Here: https://www.nfl.com/news/commanders-qb-sam-howell-couldn-t-care-less-about-outside-opinions-on-his-chance