The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree he was wrong.  But I'll give him he's been somewhat measured on that point in podcasts.

 

When asked who is the best QB he had, he's said Kirk.  He's made it pretty clear that Alex was his 2nd best.  He hasn't really hyped Colt much.  But agree at that time, the vibe was Jay thought Colt could do it. 

 

 

I don't remember whether it was Kevin or Al Galdi, but one of them asked directly "do you think Colt could be a starting QB in the NFL."  

 

Jay's answer was (paraphrased), "Yes, absolutely. In my opinion the only thing holding him back is every time he got an opportunity, he got hurt."

 

I'm not going to go back and find the stop on the tour.  I'm not going to disagree he thought Kirk was better, or Alex was second best, but he answered directly he thought Colt could be a starter and he was wrong. 

 

Which is fine, people are wrong about things all the time.  But Colt never had the tools to be a long term NFL starting QB, and Jay couldn't see it.  While I actually think he was pretty good at recognizing talent, he had a blind spot for smart, try-hard, low-athletic ability guys.  We saw that over and over and over.  

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't remember whether it was Kevin or Al Galdi, but one of them asked directly "do you think Colt could be a starting QB in the NFL."  

 

Jay's answer was (paraphrased), "Yes, absolutely. In my opinion the only thing holding him back is every time he got an opportunity, he got hurt."

 

I'm not going to go back and find the stop on the tour.  I'm not going to disagree he thought Kirk was better, or Alex was second best, but he answered directly he thought Colt could be a starter and he was wrong. 

 

Which is fine, people are wrong about things all the time.  But Colt never had the tools to be a long term NFL starting QB, and Jay couldn't see it.  While I actually think he was pretty good at recognizing talent, he had a blind spot for smart, try-hard, low-athletic ability guys.  We saw that over and over and over.  

 

I heard it.  but Jay had opportunities to rank the Qb's he's had and he's multiple times said Kirk was the best.  And while he didn't flat out say Alex was his 2nd best, he seemed to imply it multiple times. 

 

But as for Colt not having the tools.  Let me introduce you to @Thinking Skins.  I think he would disagree?

[Skinsinparadise]

19 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

He was saying that to koolblue13 and not you about starting Howell in game 1. 

 

 

 

Good catch. My bad on that. 

[wit33]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was calling for who in game 1?  I genuinely don't recall me calling for anyone in game 1.  do you mean Howell?  It definitely wasn't Heinicke for me.

 

That was a response to koolblue

 

He was clamoring for Howell early on , maybe not week 1 lol 

 

On 7/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I got mixed feelings about this point.  On one hand, I like rolling the dice on Howell.  On the other hand, it doesn't feel like Ron is rolling the dice on anything.  He's failed with his trades and FA signings at QB.  As our old buddy Jay suggested in a recent podcast, Ron has to place his bets on Howell now to likely save his job -- you can't really roll with another veteran who fails or is meh.   But a young QB might buy you some time.

 

This is the QB model I’ve desired for many years, so I’m hyped and have a great deal of bias. 
 

Cheap, young and a magician in and out of the pocket. If he sucks, move on to the next cheap, young, and magician in the pocket. 

 

On 7/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To convince the next ownership that this time its different -- you got to say hey i got the young QB.  It was a conservative move and arguably the only move Ron could make.  So i don't think it shows much balls.  Showing balls would be rolling with Jimmy G, spending some money and saying hey trust me on this new reiteration of a veteran.   Playing a different card versus the same cards that failed him IMO is smart politics from Ron and the safer bet.

 

Solid overall point relating to smart politics. 

 

Starting a 5th round pick and basically announcing him as your starter after last season doesn’t qualify as taking a risk? A big risk that most don’t do—he’s going against the grain. 
 

His future rests on the shoulders of Howell. This isn’t common practice in the league, a fifth rounder starting. 
 

 

On 7/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

With Howell, even if they don't win he can make the case of look at that progress.  You bring in some veteran, then you got to win for sure.  And if he gets canned he can still say i helped find the young QB.

 

Nah, it’s all about the win column for Ron and he knows that. I don’t believe he thinks the angle of winning 6-8 games with Howell saves his job.

 

It’s playoffs or bust, he knows this. IMO 

 

On 7/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I had no idea.  I presume that alone nullifies the idea that Ron says something at the start of the off season and then tends to do something else and the solution is in house for him ala bringing Jon Bostic back.  
 

 

Average joes are a must at certain spots. Davis is coming along just fine. Ready for Jack to get the second LB out of there in 3rd and long situations anyways. It appears Washington is positioned to do some more 1 LB looks with rotating safety’s in the box. 

 

On 7/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Their big changes to the O line are bringing in Gates and Wylie.  Neither dude has much pedigree.  Neither dude even made PFF's top 100 FA list.

 

Not ready to bow to PFF. Big believer QB and OC are huge factors in how Olines play. Of course the Oline would grade out terrible last year. 
 

Truly have very little knowledge on Gates or Wylie, but value dudes who’ve achieved competence and have been identified by the FO as guys who can contribute.

 

It’s my belief most players are in a pool of 70-80% with very little difference between the lower and higher ends of that spectrum, so this leads me to never wanting to pay big money to a guy who’s not shown self to be great or elite. Naturally, this has lead me to being okay with Ron’s gamble at Oline. I prefer him to keep open possibility of retaining our own proven good players versus guaranteeing 2-3 years for average or above Olineman. 

 

 

On 7/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was late to reallizing this because while I noticed he didn't complete these rosters in the first three years -- it felt like it was all building to this year when he would indeed finish it.

 

But when I saw him in my mind do the exact same thing as the other years, he lost me.   It comes off to me that its not about Ron building up to anything but this is just how he rolls. 

 

He upgraded the defensive line and weakened the offensive line.   The net result is a so so team.  That sums up his tenure for me.  
 

 

That’s it lol?

Nothing to do with the QB position or lack of weapons on offense over the years?

 

On 7/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I along with @Koolblue13 might have been the most optimistic on the board as to the roster heading into 2023.  But we both became loud critics for the same reason -- we are both blown away that he didn't finish the roster and did another version of wait until next year, we aren't ready yet, version of this roster.

 

The roster has gotten stronger. You guys were cool with the Oline (I imagine) after a great 2022 campaign, now are lambasting Ron after the Oline was ravaged by injuries in 2023. New bodies have been brought in, a mix of youth and veterans. 
 

My speculative position is Ron values depth/youth  at Oline over being top heavy. 
 

On 7/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

you think he pulled it off.  Cool.  I don't even remotely think he did.  I give the off season a D.  

 

I think Ron is unimaginative as for setting up the roster.  It's basically comes off like he gives Tim Gribble a shopping list for the draft and then lives and dies with that product.  I don't think there is much of an overarching vision aside from lets keeping drafting to our needs, hope that Gribble continues to do a good job with that, and someday organically it comes together. 

 

As far as the roster goes, I don't love the roster.  I like aspects of the roster.   But I am not a fan of running a team with a crap O line.  As a scout once said its tough to be a good team with a bad O line.  So Ron for my taste picked the wrong spot to have a weakness.  If I felt like you do about the O line not being that big of a deal as to loading it up, then I'd have no issue with his work.  

 

If Howell has command over the offense, Washington is ready to compete with teams 6-20. Ron has positioned the roster to be ready to seize the moment if the most important position in all of sports is ready to lead them. Having great mobility can assist with achieving competence early on for a QB—this is where my hopes lye for Howell. Anything else is a huge bonus. 
 

We are opposite ends of the spectrum with Ron needing to make big splashes or moves, I completely dislike that idea. Do what you feel is best for the team. 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

That was a response to koolblue

 

He was clamoring for Howell early on , maybe not week 1 lol 

 

 

 

Yep, my bad.

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

This is the QB model I’ve desired for many years, so I’m hyped and have a great deal of bias. 
 

Cheap, young and a magician in and out of the pocket. If he sucks, move on to the next cheap, young, and magician in the pocket. 

 

 

 

 

I am good with that, too.  And its looking like potentially a really good draft for QBs in 2024 if this doesn't work out.

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Solid overall point relating to smart politics. 

 

Starting a 5th round pick and basically announcing him as your starter after last season doesn’t qualify as taking a risk? A big risk that most don’t do—he’s going against the grain. 
 

His future rests on the shoulders of Howell. This isn’t common practice in the league, a fifth rounder starting. 
 

 

 

 

I get the point because the national media sees it as risky.  But Jay I think captured my point on this perfectly.  At this point, its the safest bet for Ron considering all that has happened before.

 

To use a different analogy.  If I make pizzas and they have been bad year after year and I am trying to convince the next restaurant owner to keep me on as a chef, what's riskier to cook another pizza or say check out my lasagne?  The easier sell IMO is for Ron to try something else versus going back to that same well.

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

 

Nah, it’s all about the win column for Ron and he knows that. I don’t believe he thinks the angle of winning 6-8 games with Howell saves his job.

 

It’s playoffs or bust, he knows this. IMO 

 

 

 

 

I get the point but I think he can sell lets say a 9-8 season easier if it were done with Howell versus name that veteran. 

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

 

Average joes are a must at certain spots. Davis is coming along just fine. Ready for Jack to get the second LB out of there in 3rd and long situations anyways. It appears Washington is positioned to do some more 1 LB looks with rotating safety’s in the box. 

 

 

 

I don't care about LB.  My point is Ron likes to emphasize a point in the off season then reverse himself some and say on 2nd thought it wasn't so bad so the solution is in house.

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Not ready to bow to PFF. Big believer QB and OC are huge factors in how Olines play. Of course the Oline would grade out terrible last year. 

 

 

If its about the scheme, doesn't it spell trouble for our D line?  There are plenty of smart O coordinators out there.  Why not reverse this then? You think Jonathan Allen or Payne or Sweat are a problem?  Well don't worry about them, we will scheme them into being irrelevant.

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

That’s it lol?

Nothing to do with the QB position or lack of weapons on offense over the years?

 

 

 

Almost every team has strong points and weak points.  the upshot is how do they balance out?  I don't give a rats behind about an explanation in year 4 about why they went 8-9.  Yeah it was 8-9 but did you see Payne and Allen, those dudes are ridiculous.  It feels like loser talk for me.   We need to aim higher than that.  My point is win.  If Ron wins, he has me.  I just don't care one whit anymore about hey the record isn't hot but lets focus on this item or that item that is strong about the team.  I was patient for 3 years with that argument.  He's not getting a 4th year out of me on this.  I've been consistent on this point.  I said the same thing about Shanny back in that day.  I had his back for 3 years.  But he wasn't getting a 4th year from me of hey we are still rebuilding.  

 

Look I'll give Ron that he won't make a stinker of a movie.  But I want a good movie.  I am not into a mediocre one but hey there were some cool scenes in the mix.  In year 3, that's fine.  In year 4 it feels nauseating to me.

 

I've said this in other threads over the years.  My wife is a Giants fan as are much if my in-laws.   I've won thus far the fandom of my kids.  But it takes some work.  And Ron makes it extra hard for me.  In one year, Daboll and company did something this team hasn't done in 16 years and that is win a playoff game.  That outit is considered smarter and cooler than our FO-coaching by most.  And to add insult to injury they also had a sexier off season to drum fan excitement.

 

I am not pissed at you or others who disagree.  It's fine for me to argue our fellow fans.  But I admit I am pissed at Ron.  I spent years defending him.  I thought he was building something to go for the kill in year 4.  And in this off season, while you and some other stragglers are sold.  I am not.  Feels "meh" to me.  The national media, analytics, Vegas types are not sold.  And judging by radio polls on twitter most of the local fans are not sold either.

 

Ron can whine about fans not coming to games all he wants but IMO now that Dan is gone he will be the #1 reason for it.   Again, if he wins, he's vindicated.  But he has zero leeway with me if he has a bad to mediocre season.   

 

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

The roster has gotten stronger. You guys were cool with the Oline (I imagine) after a great 2022 campaign, now are lambasting Ron after the Oline was ravaged by injuries in 2023. New bodies have been brought in, a mix of youth and veterans. 

 

 

Some had concerns leading to 2022 about the O line.  Some thought Masko could turn lemons into lemonade.  I was closer to the later thought.  I was wrong.  It wasn't about injuries.  It was about lack of talent.  As you point out injuries happen at that spot to every team.  Even healthy that was a meh O line.

 

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

My speculative position is Ron values depth/youth  at Oline over being top heavy. 
 

 

 

 

He IMO doesn't execute either thought well so his philosophy about it doesn't matter to me.

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

If Howell has command over the offense, Washington is ready to compete with teams 6-20. Ron has positioned the roster to be ready to seize the moment if the most important position in all of sports is ready to lead them. Having great mobility can assist with achieving competence early on for a QB—this is where my hopes lye for Howell. Anything else is a huge bonus. 

 

 

I actually like Howell more than most.  But that's part of what pisses me off.  He didn't help him be successful.

 

14 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

We are opposite ends of the spectrum with Ron needing to make big splashes or moves, I completely dislike that idea. Do what you feel is best for the team. 

 

 

It's not about splashes or big moves.  That's the easy way to get casual fans excited about the off season but as I've said a zilion times he doesn't have to do that. My bar is actually low on that front.  He doesn't have to be exciting.  Just be different.

 

As I've said repeatedy, if Ron wants to be all about the future.  Then how about Eagles style trade down to pick up 2024 picks?  How about listen to the dudes who sell tickets for your team who want to be on Hard Knocks?   

 

Don't bemoan wanting the fans back while not doing a whit to make this team more interesting.  Again if Ron wins, it doesn't matter.  But if he is going to play the 8-9 card then at least try to be interesting.  

Edited July 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

I manage, so I assume the manager is more important than the player.

 

Darnold says there is always someone open in Kyles offense. He might have a come back. 

 

But seeing Kirk and KoC on this show I just started are so bland and boring and we know that doesn't win in the NFL at the end. 

[Koolblue13]

I'm watching the show now. The Colts talk about losing to the crappy colts probably the same way the Eagles tal about losing to us. 

[Koolblue13]

I hate Kirk Cousins.

[Koolblue13]

We had Cousins for 6 ****ing years? RG3 had one year. What in the living **** were we doing. 

 

Like we hit the QB lottery twice and still ****ed it up? 

 

We really have been the 3rd worst team during Dan. Thank god it's over.

[Chris 44]

35 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

We really have been the 3rd worst team during Dan. Thank god it's over.

 

[tmandoug1]

I blame DS for the failure of this team since the day he purchased it. Far as I'm concerned RR  gets 3 years under new ownership to get my blame.

Edited July 15, 2023 by tmandoug1

[MartinC]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't remember whether it was Kevin or Al Galdi, but one of them asked directly "do you think Colt could be a starting QB in the NFL."  

 

Jay's answer was (paraphrased), "Yes, absolutely. In my opinion the only thing holding him back is every time he got an opportunity, he got hurt."

 

I'm not going to go back and find the stop on the tour.  I'm not going to disagree he thought Kirk was better, or Alex was second best, but he answered directly he thought Colt could be a starter and he was wrong. 

 

Which is fine, people are wrong about things all the time.  But Colt never had the tools to be a long term NFL starting QB, and Jay couldn't see it.  While I actually think he was pretty good at recognizing talent, he had a blind spot for smart, try-hard, low-athletic ability guys.  We saw that over and over and over.  

I was on a flight from Phoenix to Atlanta that Colt was on not long ago. I said hello to him and thanked him for his time at Washington as we left the plane. He is not a large person. I can see why he has had trouble staying healthy - he’s not built to take hits from 300lb highly athletic human beings.

 

Very good chance he’s the opposing starter for the Cards we see in week 1. If he stays healthy through camp and preseason …

[RandyHolt]

RR needed to draft less DL and more OL. And QBs for that matter. Expecting to fix OL this year - tells me our scouting dept had no vision for how thin this draft would be.

 

Nothing at all against the player but think we could have addressed the OL with our 2nd last year instead of throwing more picks at the DL and taking Phil.

Edited July 15, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Conn]

 

[method man]

7 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

RR needed to draft less DL and more OL. And QBs for that matter. Expecting to fix OL this year - tells me our scouting dept had no vision for how thin this draft would be.

 

Nothing at all against the player but think we could have addressed the OL with our 2nd last year instead of throwing more picks at the DL and taking Phil.

I don’t think anyone on this board loved the Phil pick. It was a reach first of all and was forced because they screwed up their planning for depth. 
 

Truth be told, I wanted Brisker or a LB as that was a LB heavy draft (imagine a 2nd year Troy Andersen running w Jamin - would’ve been the most athletic LB duo in the league)

 

If we were to redraft, I bet many here would have taken Parham, Lucas or Fortner

Edited July 15, 2023 by method man

[Skinsinparadise]

I was OK with Mathis but agree with the thought of lack of O line action and strengthening the D line should not have been the bigger priority.   Again, if they don't do much in FA.

 

But the one that really stung was going with Jamin Davis over Darrisaw.  In that draft I wanted JOK or Darrisaw over Jamin.  And I was one of the higher ones on Jamin but saw him as a 2nd round talent.  Both JOK and Darrisaw thus far are better players.  Darrisaw is a borderline elite LT.  

 

But that draft we kept hearing they are zoning in on a LB in round 1, so one of the LBs felt inevitable.  We had a contest to guess their first round pick that year, I was the one who guessed Jamin Davis.  Again, their need round by round approach makes them somewhat predictable.

 

You can say taking two secondary players in the first two rounds was unpredictable last draft but not really.  Keim gave the vibe among others it would be one of the first two rounds.  And also suggested the secondary was their backup spot if an O lineman wasn't available they loved.  It unfolded like that.

 

Mathis felt a bit out of the blue,  But the narrative back then was Payne wasn't for sure on their minds as being back. Payne's big season though made it something they for sure wanted to happen.  But I'll give them that Mathis might have been a rare BPA anything goes pick in their minds -- an approach I don't mind and I don't see often from them.  But as for whether that pick gets justfied that remains to be seen.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

We had Cousins for 6 ****ing years? RG3 had one year. What in the living **** were we doing. 

 

Like we hit the QB lottery twice and still ****ed it up? 

 

We really have been the 3rd worst team during Dan. Thank god it's over.

 

I recall those Kirk and Bruce threads.  I made more enemies on both threads by a mile than any other.  The RG3 thread was safe for me -- most were with me on RG3 but alas we were all wrong about him.    😢

 

But I was on odd duck in that RG3 group -- I turned on Shanny but it had little to do with RG3 (it was part of the soup but not my main reason).  My issue was the same I have with Ron which is he doesn't have forever to rebuild this team.  In Shanny's case he couldn't build a defense.  In Ron's case its the offense -- specifically O line.  Also I liked RG3 AND Kirk.  Most of the RG3 guys saw Kirk as a rival and were bitter about him.  Apparently so was Dan.  

 

That whole era was really twisted if you think about it.  We had our one and only dose of semi glory in 2012 and NFL relevance.  And big time NFL relevance.  The Kirk era had a competent offense and they were competitive but it wasn't sexy.  And RG3 was brimming with charisma but Kirk had none.   I think people here had so many mixed emotions.

 

The kicker with Kirk is we knew he really didn't want to be here.  That point took me time to encode.  He saw the dysfunction and turmoil.  We wanted him to take Bruce's low ball offers but he had no interest staying with the clown show.  And some clearly resented that. I recall I think it was Keim who said the actual negotiation revealed even more of the clown show which he already had concerns about as is.  For example, they'd tell him a new offer is on its way and then they'd email him the exact same offer.   

 

And apparently Bruce berated Kirk at the start of the negotation after that Giants game.  then had to play good cop months later after learning Kirk's side was pissed.  Then we got that beyond bizzare press conference from Bruce on and on.  If people got over their hate of Kirk, they'd see Bruce-Dan had an Adams Family freak show version of a negotiation with Kirk coupled with the freak show going on via other fronts at the same time including the bizzare episiodes with Scot where they leaked he was a drunk etc.     We are fans of this team.  But imagine if we grew up Bears fans.  Would you guys really do whatever it takes to stay with that freak show of a team including taking low ball offers?

 

The RG3 era exploded in part because of the dysfunction and his bizzare relationship with the owner which fueled his out of control ego.  The Kirk saga was super weird.   Then they broke up the band of WRs and replaced them with scrubs at the time.  Then we got Bruce with his chesty "we are close" comments.  And clearly it came out later that the building was a sexist zoo at the same time where even the female reporters were being harassed. 

 

As I've said we should be thankful that Kirk left because I doubt Dan would be gone otherwise.  The attendance started to sink that next year.  Their QBR was dead last since he left.  And to add insult to injury they spent a ton of draft capital and cap room to earn that infamous dead last ranking.   We can rejoice that Kirk never overcame his reputation for not being clutch.  But on our terms, he got the last laugh.  He did help them win a playoff game.  Something we haven't done in 16 years.   And he did beat us in both head to head matches and mount a comeback against our supposed comeback king -- Heinicke.    The other head to head win was a rout and exposed our bust of a #1 pick (RIP) who was the teacher's pet similar to RG3.   All came full circle.

 

Hopefully Howell changes this dyanmic.  Heck part of my optimism is Dan is gone.  I do believe in karma and with Dan here the karma was never going to be good.  That hopefully is about to change.

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was OK with Mathis but agree with the thought of lack of O line action and strengthening the D line should not have been the bigger priority.   Again, if they don't do much in FA.

 

But the one that really stung was going with Jamin Davis over Darrisaw.  In that draft I wanted JOK or Darrisaw over Jamin.  And I was one of the higher ones on Jamin but saw him as a 2nd round talent.  Both JOK and Darrisaw thus far are better players.  Darrisaw is a borderline elite LT.  

 

But that draft we kept hearing they are zoning in on a LB in round 1, so one of the LBs felt inevitable.  We had a contest to guess their first round pick that year, I was the one who guessed Jamin Davis.  Again, their need round by round approach makes them somewhat predictable.

 

You can say taking two secondary players in the first two rounds was unpredictable last draft but not really.  Keim gave the vibe among others it would be one of the first two rounds.  And also suggested the secondary was their backup spot if an O lineman wasn't available they loved.  It unfolded like that.

 

Mathis felt a bit out of the blue,  But the narrative back then was Payne wasn't for sure on their minds as being back. Payne's big season though made it something they for sure wanted to happen.  But I'll give them that Mathis might have been a rare BPA anything goes pick in their minds -- an approach I don't mind and I don't see often from them.  But as for whether that pick gets justfied that remains to be seen.

Yup, most of the board including me wanted Darrisaw over Jamin. There was also love for Najee Harris and JOK. Fortunately we knew there were some strong OL that should have been available in the 2nd round.  Luckily one of them, Cosmi did reach our pick. Turns out Jamin may have been a great pickup after a rough first year. I think about how Darrisaw could have changed the landscape of the roster, might have been one of RR's biggest misses.

 

Mathis was a bit a shocker for me even though he was graded close to where we picked. I expected DL to be a later round priority as it felt OL, DB and LB is what we were desperate for. 

When I saw Devin Lloyd falling so far at the end of the first round I must admit, I was hoping for a Sweat type move back up into the bottom of the first trade. There was no great OL to select when we took Mathis and there had just been a run on the top DB's but I thought for sure they'd be calling out Brisker. There were a ton of good WR's, I was just praying they didn't take another one as we just grabbed Dotson. This year with a healthy Mathis back, he is going to feel like we got an extra 2nd round bonus guy moving into the season.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by DWinzit

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yup, most of the board including me wanted Darrisaw over Jamin. There was also love for Najee Harris and JOK. Fortunately we knew there were some strong OL that should have been available in the 2nd round.  Luckily one of them, Cosmi did reach our pick. Turns out Jamin may have been a great pickup after a rough first year. I think about how Darrisaw could have changed the landscape of the roster, might have been one of RR's biggest misses.

 

Mathis was a bit a shocker for me even though he was graded close to where we picked. I expected DL to be a later round priority as it felt OL, DB and LB is what we were desperate for. 

When I saw Devin Lloyd falling so far at the end of the first round I must admit, I was hoping for a Sweat type move back up into the bottom of the first trade. There was no great OL to select when we took Mathis and there had just been a run on the top DB's but I thought for sure they'd be calling out Brisker. There were a ton of good WR's, I was just praying they didn't take another one as we just grabbed Dotson. This year with a healthy Mathis back, he is going to feel like we got an extra 2nd round bonus guy moving into the season.

 

 

 

I actually ironically am cooler with a pick like Mathis than i am Jamin.  With Jamin that pick felt so them.  What's our top need?  LB.  Tim Gribble who is the best LB left at 19?  OK take him.  And I pushed Jamin on that draft thread quite a bit but again as a 2nd rounder not a first. 

 

My top want was JOK, Darrisaw #2.  If I knew how little heed they'd give the O line over the years, Darrisaw would have been my #1 by a mile.  But it wasn't hard for me to guess at the time they'd take Jamin because he was who I expected would be the best LB left when they picked.

 

The Mathis pick was a bit outside the box, and not very them.    And I'd like to see more of that via the draft to need approach. Though you can argue they saw that as a need if Payne departed.  

 

I gather they think they are close enough to BPA because they pick two spots not just one and pick the best available for both spots.  But for my taste that's still drafting to need. 

 

Some argue that them not taking O line is proof that they don't draft to need.  But again Keim telegraphed their position wants for each round and it went exactly that way. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I actually ironically am cooler with a pick like Mathis than i am Jamin.  With Jamin that pick felt so them.  What's our top need?  LB.  Tim Gribble who is the best LB left at 19?  OK take him.  And I pushed Jamin on that draft thread quite a bit but again as a 2nd rounder not a first. 

 

My top want was JOK, Darrisaw #2.  If I knew how little heed they'd give the O line over the years, Darrisaw would have been my #1 by a mile.  But it wasn't hard for me to guess at the time they'd take Jamin because he was who I expected would be the best LB left when they picked.

 

The Mathis pick was a bit outside the box, and not very them.    And I'd like to see more of that via the draft to need approach.  I gather they think they are close enough to BPA because they pick two spots not just one and pick the best available for both spots.  But for my taste that's still drafting to need. 

 

Some argue that them not taking O line is proof that they don't draft to need.  But again Keim telegraphed their position wants for each round and it went exactly that way. 

Keim being able to pretty much tell us who they are picking the past few years is a big issue. If he can do that, most every else is telegraphed similar. It has been based on priority needs. The issue, too many needs going into the draft and i can't wait until that is not where we are...draft on much more of a BPA scenario. It means we need a stronger roster top to bottom. A few decent FA's can make drafting much better. So happy Dan will be flushed!

 

I am hoping Howell survives the season and fairs well. The mobility, toughness and arm strength are going to give EB the best opportunity to prove himself. Everyone knows he is going into this season with a raw QB and weak OL and TE.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Keim being able to pretty much tell us who they are picking the past few years is a big issue. If he can do that, most every else is telegraphed similar.

 

Round 1, he said these are the two positions they are targeting.  He was right.  Day 2, he said these are the two positions they are targeting.  right again.

 

Day 3.  He nailed the multiple positions they were targeting right down to O line early.

 

The only thing he got wrong was LB.  He said that spot was in the mix.  But in the Commanders log show I posted here, you can see they almost did it when weighing Soelle versus Andre Jones.  Keim did say edge on day 3.  So they doubled down on two of them versus taking a LB, that was the only slight twist.  And that happened in the 7th round.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Round 1, he said these are the two positions they are targeting.  He was right.  Day 2, he said these are the two positions they are targeting.  right again.

 

Day 3.  He nailed the multiple positions they were targeting right down to O line early considering they didn't end up with one on the first two days.

 

The only thing he got wrong was LB.  He said that spot was in the mix.  But in the Commanders log show I posted here, you can see they almost did it when weighing Soelle versus Andre Jones.  Keim did say edge on day 3.  So they doubled down on two of them versus taking a LB, that was the only slight twist.  And that happened in the 7th round.

Keim proves they have tipped their drafting cards these past few years. It's one thing to say they really like a coupe players, which can be obvious. It's another thing to know what their drafting plans are. They need to keep the cards closer to their chest and not be required to draft on fulling multitudes of roster holes.

 

Next year there will be a lot of loading the offense from QB (at least a backup that could compete or push Howell) to heavy on the OL and weapon upgrades. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Keim proves they have tipped their drafting cards these past few years. It's one thing to say they really like a coupe players, which can be obvious. It's another thing to know what their drafting plans are. They need to keep the cards closer to their chest and not be required to draft on fulling multitudes of roster holes.

 

Next year there will be a lot of loading the offense from QB (at least a backup that could compete or push Howell) to heavy on the OL and weapon upgrades. 

 

I don't mind Keim knowing.  He shares information in such a low key way that I don't think it tips off other teams.  He's awesome IMO.   And I admit sometimes I have to extrapolate some from his points because he's so careful.  And on occasion perhaps I extrapolate wrong.   But I mostly get it right because I've followed him for so long that I am typically good at reading through his hints.

 

they didn't clearly do a good job hiding that Forbes was their favorite corner though.  But many more than just Keim disclosed that.

 

My issue is that he revealed their need based approach.  Not thaf he let out a secret.  I am sure the rest of the NFL knows this FO drafts to need.  Heck they didn't disguise it at all if you look at their pro meetings.  But Keim helped reveal how pathological this FO drafts to need.  On this draft he wasn't hinting, he was flat out talking about and even posting about their desires.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't mind Keim knowing.  He shares information in such a low key way that I don't think it tips off other teams.  He's awesome IMO.   And I admit sometimes I have to extrapolate some from his points because he's so careful.  And on occasion perhaps I extrapolate wrong.   But I mostly get it right because I've followed him for so long that I am typically good at reading through his hints.

 

they didn't clearly do a good job hiding that Forbes was their favorite corner though.  But many more than just Keim disclosed that.

 

My issue is that he revealed their need based approach.  Not thaf he let out a secret.  I am sure the rest of the NFL knows this FO drafts to need.  But Keim helped reveal how pathological this FO drafts to need.  On this draft he wasn't hinting, he was flat out talking about and even posting about their desires.

Oh don't think I am bashing Keim, I enjoy listening to him. I learn more from him and form your synopsis of his takes then I do on virtually anywhere else. I just see it as an issue for the team leaks or telegraphing too much.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Oh don't think I am bashing Keim, I enjoy listening to him. I learn more from him and form your synopsis of his takes then I do on virtually anywhere else. I just see it as an issue for the team leaks or telegraphing too much.

 

I find him good though at how he discloses what he knows.  He is either vague enough where he's not telegraphing anything for sure.  Or he's disclosing things at the last minute like he did on the draft, I doubt other teams are combing through his last minute tweets just as the round is about to begin.

 

But more in point, he didn't so much reveal players.   He did that a little but not much.  He was revealing their need based targets.