The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[method man]

I think Taylor is back if Turner is back. Don’t think he is back if he isn’t back. If they get a guy off the Shanny/Reid tree and you want to go the cheap vet backup route, Minshew is the better option

[CommanderCarson]

13 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Not what I was referring to.  The last 1000 pages of this thread have been a constant reminder that Heinicke sucks.  And yet there are people who keep posting as if there is this massive groundswell of posters who keep insisting that he doesn't suck and that he could be the guy.  I've seen no such posts.  Most of this board was ready to move on from Heinicke as maybe being the guy after 2021.  They were cool with him as the backup.  Yes, there are some who would be cool with him as the backup in 2023.  

I see the same thing my man but I just had to take a quick time out from the board and I think my time trying to articulate that here has run out 😊. Just know you’re not alone in that observation, and it’s fascinating to me. 
 

I’m glad they are starting Howell, however they got there. You could make the argument that if Howell shows real potential vs Dallas that going 0-3-1 over the last 4 was the best possible outcome for us, as painful as that was. If Howell comes close to replicating the success that we’ve seen from later rounders like Dak, Kirk, Seattle Russell, etc. we just struck gold. Cheap rookie contract, getting rid of Wentz’ 28M and not feeling the need to replace it with another $28M or thereabouts on a new veteran contract would be bigger than people realize. You’d want Heineke (yes heineke) and maybe a cheaper vet/another rookie as additional insurance going into next year, but that would let the team attack offensive line/corner/LB, resign Payne, and really have the chance to be a complete team top to bottom. One game you could argue isn’t enough to know what you have in Howell good or bad, and I’d somewhat agree with that take. But if he shows promise and passes the eye test vs a Dallas team with everything to play for, I’d say it’s a huge win heading into the off season and would make the late season collapse feel much less bleak. 

[woodpecker]

15 minutes ago, method man said:

I would not give up that much value for Stroud and definitely not for baby Wentz in Levis

Fair enough. I wouldn’t want to either, but that’s probably what it would take. Not sure we can make such a big move with the ownership situation anyway. Enjoy Jacoby Brissett next year. 

[formerly4skins]

25 minutes ago, Drock_VB said:

TH’s response to starting SH was a pure class act.  Great teammate.  Hope they re-sign TH as we keep looking for the future QB of this franchise.  

 

Class-act...also smart and self-aware.

 

TH is showing exactly what you want out of your backup qb...a guy who can come in and play as needed, but isn't primarily invested in auditioning himself for a potential future starting job. To me, that "team 1st" mentality is vital for a backup QB. 

 

We've seen guys like Colt McCoy play themselves into very nice contracts as unquestioned backups. I'd like to see that happen for TH over the latter part of his playing career. 

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

This is the ticket. Bears are looking for a defensive stud. Send them Chase Young and two first round picks, plus whatever else you need to throw in, for the number two overall. For those who can’t stomach trading Chase, pick one of the other DL. I would imagine Chicago would be interested in any of them. Deal from strength to address your weakness.

 

For which QB and why?  To trade up that high, I'd probably would be something close to the RG3 haul. 

[Skinsinparadise]

51 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't find it that ironic. People wanted to see what the $28M/two 3rd round QB could do given Robinson and a focus on the run game. Within one drive, at the most two, those people were all set with that quarterback.

 

Wanting to see him and clamoring for him to be given more chances are very different topics.

 

We saw, we no longer wanted to see.

 

It sucks missing the playoffs but we might have won the battle to lose the war with that Cleveland game.  I said something similar after the Browns game but I'll add to it.

 

A.  Howell is starting and heck we even got a Rivera comment the other day that implied that maybe Howell is the dude.  so who knows, if Howell flashes they might consider him as a possibility.  Does that work out or not?  Don't know. But I'd like to have a look.

 

B.  I dived a bit more into this draft in the last few days and IMO it might make a big difference picking lets say 13 versus 22.  

 

C.  As for Wentz, it was clear that it was on the table that he might come back.  That game showcased to Ron that heck no, Wentz shouldn't be back.

 

If Wentz was back on his 26 million or so 2023 cap number it would have been a disaster.  Now, we don't have to worry about that agony. But them opening up the hood to take one more look while was painful to see, especially for me who flew up and it cost me too much money to see the disaster up close, i think the alternative might have been worse if Wentz teased any with his game.  

Edited January 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[justice98]

36 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

What if Howell balls out? 

 

Doesn't change anything.  Makes Ron look even stupider for rolling out Wentz and Heinicke. It took total catastrophe for him to think Howell was ready to play.  And even then thought he needed extra hand holding in the game he was actually gonna play in.  

[Dan T.]

Here's a link to every Sam Howell throw and run from preseason: 

 

 

Some promise there, but I'll be watching Sunday with low expectations.  Is he Heinicke with better arm strength?  The thing about Heinicke, physical limitations aside, is that he doesn't shrink from the big moments.  That would be nice to see with Sam on Sunday.  He sees it as a big game.  Let's see how he handles that

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

What if Howell balls out? 

 

I really hope he does and we win. I want us to win. That will allow Howell to start in 23 and the draft position won't matter since we won't be looking for a QB that they think might pan out compared to what is in your hand. Build the lines through the draft and FA. 

 

26 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Doesn't change anything.  Makes Ron look even stupider for rolling out Wentz and Heinicke. It took total catastrophe for him to think Howell was ready to play.  And even then thought he needed extra hand holding in the game he was actually gonna play in.  

 

Howell had to work on his NFL level footwork instead of just throwing him out there to fail instead. That was smart from the QB coach. As for Ron being told what to do well he is a players coach and didn't want to lose the locker room. It doesn't matter how it was decided at least he was on board with it and simply just didn't say no I am going with Taylor instead. Ron said Taylor helped him in his decision. Kudos to Taylor and his whatever motives. 

[goskins10]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It sucks missing the playoffs but we might have won the battle to lose the war with that Cleveland game.  I said something similar after the Browns game but I'll add to it.

 

A.  Howell is starting and heck we even got a Rivera comment the other day that implied that maybe Howell is the dude.  so who knows, if Howell flashes they might consider him as a possibility.  Does that work out or not?  Don't know. But I'd like to have a look.

 

B.  I dived a bit more this draft in the last few days and IMO it might make a big difference picking lets say 13 versus 22.  

 

C.  As for Wentz, it was clear that it was on the table that he might come back.  That game showcased to Ron that heck no, Wentz shouldn't be back.

 

If Wentz was back on his 26 million or so 2023 cap number it would have been a disaster.  Now, we don't have to worry about that agony. But them opening up the hood to take one more look while was painful to see, especially for me who flew up and it cost me too much money to see the disaster up close, i think the alternative might have been worse if Wentz teased any with his game.  

 

This! They had to pull TH. He was not winning any more games this season. While as a fan I would like to have seen Howell, they had to as an organization see if they needed to keep that $28M contract. For me, the first pass against the 49ers told me everything. It was an in the dirt throw to a wide open check down. RBs and Oline do not fix that. He followed that up with a very poor decision that turned into an interception. So for me, I was done. But they had to look at him. So I even get giving him the chance against the Browns. But as SIP says above, the best thing to come out of the game is that there is no way they keep Wentz's contract. He will be released as soon as they can. 

 

TH may get a look from some teams who think they have a real chance and want that guy who can carry you a few games if your starter goes down. He can do that. Guys play hard for him. They overcome his failings to win games. That can be extremely valuable to a team with true PO aspirations and already have thier #1. So I expect Howell to be the only one standing when the dust settles. They will then either draft someone or bring in a veteran. 

 

I would have started Howell after the NY tie, but that's just me. We would have a much better idea of who we have. 

 

Oh, and TH being a class act? That may be and probably is true but has nothing to do with him suggesting Sam Howell play. It's called self preservation. TH will forever have PTSD from his games against dallas. WHy in the world would he want to play them in a meaningless game to the team? Someone suggested irony - the irony is that if Wentz or pretty much any other QB said the same they would called a coward for not wanting to be in tere! Show's no heart would be the comments 🙂  LOL

 

[Warhead36]

I want Howell to do well just so the off season will be full of chaos "lolol."

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This! They had to pull TH. He was not winning any more games this season. While as a fan I would like to have seen Howell, they had to as an organization see if they needed to keep that $28M contract. For me, the first pass against the 49ers told me everything. It was an in the dirt throw to a wide open check down. RBs and Oline do not fix that. He followed that up with a very poor decision that turned into an interception. So for me, I was done. But they had to look at him. So I even get giving him the chance against the Browns. But as SIP says above, the best thing to come out of the game is that there is no way they keep Wentz's contract. He will be released as soon as they can. 

 

TH may get a look from some teams who think they have a real chance and want that guy who can carry you a few games if your starter goes down. He can do that. Guys play hard for him. They overcome his failings to win games. That can be extremely valuable to a team with true PO aspirations and already have thier #1. So I expect Howell to be the only one standing when the dust settles. They will then either draft someone or bring in a veteran. 

 

I would have started Howell after the NY tie, but that's just me. We would have a much better idea of who we have. 

 

Oh, and TH being a class act? That may be and probably is true but has nothing to do with him suggesting Sam Howell play. It's called self preservation. TH will forever have PTSD from his games against dallas. WHy in the world would he want to play them in a meaningless game to the team? Someone suggested irony - the irony is that if Wentz or pretty much any other QB said the same they would called a coward for not wanting to be in tere! Show's no heart would be the comments 🙂  LOL

 

 

On Keim's podcast this morning with Sam Foriter, they talked about Heinicke has more to lose than to gain to play this Sunday.  I said the same yesterday, seems obvious.  I do think its likely a coincidence that its the Dallas game but at the same time it might have creeped into Tayor's subconscious about how much he apparently hates playing Dallas.  Taylor's previous quotes come off like he's flat off cowed by the Dallas defense.

 

I wanted to eke into the playoffs.  But at the same time I admit its likely better that we didn't for the reasons I expressed.  And also for those who doubt (its a minority but not exactly an insignficant group considering Breer is among them) that Dan sells -- this might be a good kicker to ensure Dan does for various reasons.  Among them there was a narrative that if the season ended well, Virginia might reconsider the stadium.  So keeping the fans disgusted, might also help to ensure Dan doesn't have 2nd thoughts.  Ditto with the vibe of fellow owners, because it kills any potential narrative that they are turning a corner and the fans are in a happy place for a change.

 

It's weird to say but in the long run, IMO it's perfect that they lost.  But if Dan backtracks and doesn't sell, I'll take it all back.

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Andre The Giant]

 

[FootballZombie]

Hopefully Howell flashes but I don't think one game is gonna have some massive impact on the offseason. We are still gonna throw the bait line out there to lure somebody. If we get 'em is the question.

[Chris 44]

9 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

This circus needs to end. No sense trying to figure out what's going on, personnel or draft until its sold.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Chris 44

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

I believe it was Hurney who was at Howell's pro day.  According to Keim, Hurney was hopped up about Herbert before that draft but he was in Carolina at the time.

[DJHJR86]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Hopefully Howell flashes but I don't think one game is gonna have some massive impact on the offseason. We are still gonna throw the bait line out there to lure somebody. If we get 'em is the question.

 

If we win this game with him throwing/rushing for 3+ touchdowns and no turnovers (yes, I know this is unlikely) that would be a considerable impact going into the offseason.  

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

This circus needs to end. No sense trying to figure out what's going on, personnel or draft until its sold.

 

That could be a double edge sword if it happens after FA.    That's how we lost Trent Green during the previous sale.  I think this years version involves Daron Payne.  Rivera wants him back but if the sale is in limbo will that be approved because it likely involves major guaranteed money?

 

I think the odds are good this same FO and coaching staff run the show next year but are gone the year after

Edited January 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That could be a double edge sword if it happens after FA.    That's how we lost Trent Green during the previous sale.  I think this years version involves Daron Payne.  Rivera wants him back but if the sale is in limbo will that be approved because it likely involves mahor guaranteed money.

 

I think the odds are good this same FO and coaching staff run the show next year but are gone the year after

Yeah its pretty certain that the present coaching staff and front office are back next year only because of the sale timeline. As you said, Snyder shelling out money that he does not need to at this point is unlikely. A real shame that we may lose current players and not have much of a shot at free agents if the sale drags on after mid March. Frustrating to say the least.

[skinsfan66]

58 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I really hope he does and we win. I want us to win. That will allow Howell to start in 23 and the draft position won't matter since we won't be looking for a QB that they think might pan out compared to what is in your hand. Build the lines through the draft and FA. 

 

 

Howell had to work on his NFL level footwork instead of just throwing him out there to fail instead. That was smart from the QB coach. As for Ron being told what to do well he is a players coach and didn't want to lose the locker room. It doesn't matter how it was decided at least he was on board with it and simply just didn't say no I am going with Taylor instead. Ron said Taylor helped him in his decision. Kudos to Taylor and his whatever motives. 

Not hoping he does win but plays well and make any thoughts of going out and getting another 28 mil dollar lost draft picks ringer plan off the table. Better draft position to help with team needs. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The best possible outcome is Howell plays off the charts and we lose. 
 

At this point, I’d like to roll with Howell next season and see what happens.  No point in Ron spending resources when he’s likely on the way out.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The best possible outcome is Howell plays off the charts and we lose. 

 

Agree with this.

 

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

At this point, I’d like to roll with Howell next season and see what happens.  No point in Ron spending resources when he’s likely on the way out.

 

I agree if Howell looks good enough.  If he doesn't, I don't mind a move but I'd rather it doesn't involve giving up draft picks or locking into a contract long term.  

[Captain Wiggles]

Howell gonna go out there and throw for 500 yards and 6 touchdowns. 

 

Then he'll never be heard from again just like Matt Flynn. 🤣

[DJHJR86]

I do have to give props to Carson, because he didn't take his ball and go home like Carr or Mariota.  He's staying with the team and took the benching like a professional.  

[KDawg]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

I do have to give props to Carson, because he didn't take his ball and go home like Carr or Mariota.  He's staying with the team and took the benching like a professional.  

I think Carr was basically told he’s not going to be a Raider moving forward. 
 

Mariota… ya.