The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

Youre undying defense of Ron often in long diatribes is one of the most ridiculous bits on the board.

 

 

I think you're being a little harsh here @Zim489.

 

I happen to be on the opposite side of @Skinsinparadise on this particular discussion, but I must admit that his opinions are always well reasoned and non-polemical in nature.

 

He's always respectful of those with opposing views and to the best of my recollection he doen't have any specific agenda or axe to grind.

 

Quite frankly, I look forward to reading his posts, as much as I do yours, even when I don't agree with their conclusions.

 

.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by CommanderInTheRye

[zCommander]

52 minutes ago, Smurffunbunchposse said:

I made a post years ago and people called me crazy. I said, don't draft RG III. No player is worth mortgaging your future like that for. My suggestion at the time was draft Russell Wilson, whom I had seen play multiple times at NC State and draft Kirk Cousins as a backup plan. People jumped all over me for that idea. People said, that was crazy. RG III was going to lead us to a Super bowl. So, where would this franchise be if that draft pick never happened? Now, people are wanting to draft a QB or buy another cast-off (see Carr). Sam Howell!! Sam Howell! People have wrote him off without even seeing him play. He is Taylor Heinicke on steroids. He is a gamer, has moxie and he can throw a football. He is a leader. I mention TH because we won more games with him than without him. I like TH. He plays his heart out with the talent God gave him. As a fan, that's all I can ask.  Now put a strong arm, version of TH under center and where would we be. You give Sam Howell a line that can block (where we should spend money and draft picks) and he will produce. We have the running backs, receivers, he needs. Look, Joe Theismann, Mark Rypien, and Doug Williams were not great QB's on their own. The OL, RB's and receivers made them great. See Timmy Smith for what a great OL can do. I would not think about drafting a QB this off-season nor buy one until I give Sam Howell the chance to succeed with the players necessary to make that happen. How good would Trent Williams and Brandon Scherff look right now in a Washington uniform? Sam Howell put UNC on his back his senior year with very limited talent. If he had returned half the talent from his junior year, Sam Howell would not be in a  Washington uniform. You give someone with talent the "right" tools and they can succeed. See Purdy in San Fran. Get Howell the tools and let's see what happens before we cast him aside. I guess the ultimate question, If we could take any QB off their current team and put them in a Washington uniform, would they perform the same on this team as they are performing right now on their current team? I think we all know the answer and there lies the problem. Use the money and draft picks wisely and we might have reason for real hope next season and beyond. We don't need anymore RG III'S or Carson Wentz's. 

 

Except we were going to the SB with RG3 before his knee got destroyed his rookie year. But we will never know. 

 

As for Howell he has to start next year. So done with retreads. Any QB that comes in will need to learn the offense anyway so no instant success is guaranteed. Ride the rookie route and see where it leads you first with better OL and DL and TE. 

[Zim489]

So how can we get Caleb in 2024?

[zCommander]

Just now, Zim489 said:

So how can we get Caleb in 2024?

 

Would there be any incentive for Ron to tank in 23 if he is not here in 24? Nope. He would want to win as much as he can so no Caleb for you! lol

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Would there be any incentive for Ron to tank in 23 if he is not here in 24? Nope. He would want to win as much as he can so no Caleb for you! lol

I get the strong feeling he wont be here. 

[method man]

32 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I think you're being a little harsh here @Zim489.

 

I happen to be on the opposite side of @Skinsinparadise on this particular discussion, but I must admit that his opinions are always well reasoned and non-polemical in nature.

 

He's always respectful of those with opposing views and to the best of my recollection he doen't have any specific agenda or axe to grind.

 

Quite frankly, I look forward to reading his posts, as much as I do yours, even when I don't agree with their conclusions.

 

.

 

 

 

 

You look forward to reading @Zim489’s posts?

[Jumbo]

42 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

 

Thats fine. It shouldnt be an echo chamber. Im not afraid of calling it like it is or sugar coating things. Theres plenty of people that agree and plenty that disagree. Thats what makes open forums great. 

 

Now you get the mod hat.

 

First, you got more attitude than is merited.

 

Second, the temerity you have in telling me, or any other member of staff, how the forum should be, in a thread, can be viewed as a rule violation. Everyone on staff here has been doing this a very long time. We have a forum for comments like that and you should read and follow the rules like everyone agrees to when they register.

 

Your venial self-celebration of your posting style is worthless. You bring a lot of puffery to the table in general.

 

And no, you don't qualify as someone whom plenty of people agree with very much at all, though I only challenge it out of accuracy. It's not a requirement. I was making a point against your claim where that context was relevant.

 

Bottom line, be you, but understand you're accountable to how staff evaluates your content. I also advise everyone pay attention to how their fellow members do react as such feedback can be valuable in many ways, including debating pov's.

 

With that, this will end here and we will get back to the topic. 🙂

[CommanderInTheRye]

14 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

So how can we get Caleb in 2024?

 

 

I would try to do something similar to what Seattle and argh Philadelphia did last year.

 

I would be willing to trade players and pics in this draft for higher pics in next years draft with the hope that we can use them to move to the top of the draft and secure a tier one rookie QB in 2024.

 

 

[Redskins 2021]

 If you want to get Williams you need to acquire more picks for next year and move up. Although, next years schudule as of right now I think we are a 5 or 6 win team. Maybe we get a top 5 pick.

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[CommanderInTheRye]

7 minutes ago, method man said:

You look forward to reading @Zim489’s posts?

 

 

I have no life. lol

 

No seriously, in the real world I've always been a glue guy. I like to find common ground between even the most disparate personalities.

 

I search for and believe in the essential humanity in everyone.

 

I remain an optimist even though the reality of the world these days often destroys optimism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by CommanderInTheRye

[skinsmania123]

17 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I get the strong feeling he wont be here. 

He will definitely be here.  This is a transition year. No decent coach would take this gig, when they know the franchise is up for sale, with new ownership coming in and Snyder is not going to pay for a new coach.  

[method man]

Just now, skinsmania123 said:

He will definitely be here.  This is a transition year. No decent coach would take this gig, when they know the franchise is up for sale, with new ownership coming in and Snyder is not going to pay for a new coach.  

Lovie would take this gig lol. Or they can go hire Zorn

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, method man said:

Lovie would take this gig lol. Or they can go hire Zorn

 

I have a crazy idea. Just keep Ron until the new owner and if there is a sale start with a clean slate. 

[mh86]

41 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

So how can we get Caleb in 2024?

I don’t think there’s any way we do, but in my mind the best chance is…

 

start Howell next week. Then go into the off-season telling him he’s our guy next year. Build the line and rest of the team through FA and the draft. Wentz is gone. Either keep TH or sign a vet backup. Probably also draft a QB in the later rounds. You play Howell to see what he has. If he truly sucks, you swap to the rookie QB to see him. 

 

thats typically how the bad teams stay bad through the season. Of course Ron wouldn’t make it and likely wouldn’t do that unless if the new owner comes in and gives him a 3 year extension of sorts and says find him a QB at all costs 

[clskinsfan]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am with the Howie Roseman declared philosophy of keep swinging at QB

Me too. But in the draft. Not retread FA's or trades who have known issues. Drafting three QB's since RG3 and Cousins is completely unacceptable. 

 

Edited my post to add trades. Which is worse IMO. Those 2 3rds for Wentz could each be used on rookie QB's who would give you just as much production at a fraction of the cap space. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by clskinsfan

[KillBill26]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Also, it’s amazing how people don’t seem to read here. @KillBill26 where did I advocate trading up for him? It’s comical at this point.

My mistake.  You responded to someone who advocated for trying to trade up for Richardson if he was within 3-4 spots.  I read it quick and messed up.

 

What's with the constant condescension from you?  Congrats High School Harry, you are a high school football coach.  Get over yourself dude.  

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I have a crazy idea. Just keep Ron until the new owner and if there is a sale start with a clean slate. 

 

This is what is most likely. Ron will stay till there is a new owner. A new owner should completely clear the entire organization. I am one who believes that outside the QB position (which has been a disaster) Ron has actually done a pretty good job considering the circumstances in which he has been given to work in. But I also agree the entire staff, FO and support should be replaced. Just flush the entire thing and start over. Then put in the traditional management structure where a GM hires a HC who hires his staff and they work to create the roster they want. 

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Me too. But in the draft. Not retread FA's who have known issues. Drafting three QB's since RG3 and Cousins is completely unacceptable. 

High end QB picks. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, KillBill26 said:

My mistake.  You responded to someone who advocated for trying to trade up for Richardson if he was within 3-4 spots.  I read it quick and messed up.

 

What's with the constant condescension from you?  Congrats High School Harry, you are a high school football coach.  Get over yourself dude.  

Cute. You go on the attack and resort to name calling. Good stuff. 
 

Have a great night. 

[KillBill26]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I think there is no phrase I hate more than “Howell was a 5th rounder”.

 

Doesnt register with me. Sorry. 

But he was a 5th rounder.  And 32 NFL GMs passed on him through the first 4 rounds, no matter what your expertise is telling you.  It is what it is.  And in my opinion, expectations for a 1st round QB will be different than a 5th round QB.  if you disagree, cool.

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, KillBill26 said:

But he was a 5th rounder.  And 32 NFL GMs passed on him through the first 4 rounds, no matter what your expertise is telling you.  It is what it is.  And in my opinion, expectations for a 1st round QB will be different than a 5th round QB.  if you disagree, cool.

We could have kept our two 3rd rounders and had Kenny Pickett at 16. But small hands and all that.....

[justice98]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think there is no phrase I hate more than “Howell was a 5th rounder”.

 

Doesnt register with me. Sorry. 

 

It's just history.  We can talk about the draft being a crap shoot, especially at the QB position, but QBs drafted that low almost always fail to ever become viable, long-term starting QBs.  Sure, judge every player on their own merits, not on their draft position, but the numbers are overwhelming.

 

Taking Brady out of the discussion since he's the exception to every rule on anything, you can count on one hand the number of QBs drafted in the 5th or later in the last 30 years that were worth anything for more than a couple years. 

 

I get every fan's watched the tape or watched him in college and their scouting acumen says they know better and he's supposed to be wonderful.  I guess we'll see.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

It's just history.  We can talk about the draft being a crap shoot, especially at the QB position, but QBs drafted that low almost always fail to ever become viable, long-term starting QBs.  Sure, judge every player on their own merits, not on their draft position, but the numbers are overwhelming.

 

Taking Brady out of the discussion since he's the exception to every rule on anything, you can count on one hand the number of QBs drafted in the 5th or later in the last 30 years that were worth anything for more than a couple years. 

 

I get every fan's watched the tape or watched him in college and their scouting acumen says they know better and he's supposed to be wonderful.  I guess we'll see.

It’s not any of that. It’s that we’ve seen 7th rounders come in and play successfully this year. The fifth round stuff just doesn’t hold weight. Especially considering what Howell was considered to be prior to his junior year when he… played arguably better.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I’m a big UNC fan and of course I’m biased when it comes to Howell. 
 

But I recall a message board post from before Sam’s freshman year. It was from somebody in the know in the program, who had watched practices. 
 

The post was…

 

”Lots of people in here are sleeping on Sam Howell. Y’all about to find out.” 
 

I think the same thing is happening here. Dude is a warrior. Dude can sling it.

 

I’m betting he starts this week. 3TDs including two bombs (which he throws as well as anyone). Some mistakes, but shows he belongs. I expect him to seize this opportunity. 
 

 

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, KillBill26 said:

But he was a 5th rounder.  And 32 NFL GMs passed on him through the first 4 rounds, no matter what your expertise is telling you.  It is what it is.  And in my opinion, expectations for a 1st round QB will be different than a 5th round QB.  if you disagree, cool.

 

32 NFL GMs passed Tom Brady five times, Dak Prescott four times and Jalen Hurts once