The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[MrJL]

I don't think Rivera needs to justify himself that in the struggles for finding a QB

 

Year 1, he had Dwayne Haskins in his second year and Alex Smith's contract. 

 

And in years 2 and 3 they tried to pull triggers on trades but QBs actually refused to come here due to our culture and ownership issues

 

Theoretically we might have been able to get Fields or Jones last year in the draft, but neither is setting the world on fire

 

Maybe we could have gotten Baker Mayfield last offseason and he'd have played more like he did for the Rams than for us than the way he played for the Panthers

 

To put it simply, it's not his fault Dan Snyder sucks and everyone knows it

[Est.1974]

Rivera has come out with some mildly unprofessional statements recently, IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I didn't see the press conference and I'm just going off the direct quote you posted.

 

If he took responsibility in some of the other things he said that's one thing, but just going off the actual quote it seems like another dodge to me.

 

I'll try to take a look at his entire press conference to see if my opinion changes 

 

It didn’t ring through my mind for a second that he was making an excuse.

 

To me it came off as a politie set up question of what have you liked or not from the coach centric model and he went what he hadn’t liked is the QB search and it’s still ongoing.

 

if anything I was shocked he was that direct 

[MrJL]

16 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

SMMFH.

 

So Rivera's once again trying to justify his own ineptness and complicity in our team's downfall by blaming it on another failed QB search--- that HE personally led!

 

Sounds like a repeat of a repeat, to me. And I don't watch repeats.

 

And quite frankly, it's more than a bit cowardly.

 

Leaders should man up in a crisis and accept full responsibility, even when they don't  believe it's warranted.

 

In my day they called that-- character.

 

 

 

I have actually gotten sick of that kind of character because it distracts from finding who is properly blamed

[Est.1974]

Didn’t we scout something like 40 QBs last offseason. Think that was the number they quoted. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

6 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

I have actually gotten sick of that kind of character because it distracts from finding who is properly blamed

 

 

Hmm, we have a philosophical difference here.

 

To me, the man in charge is always at fault.

 

If someone beneath him makes an error it's the leader's responsibility to correct it or hire someone else.

 

If those people are retained and they continue to make the same errors the fault clearly lies with the primary decision maker.

 

Everything else is a song and dance show that only distracts from the real issue.

 

I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with me, I'm just asserting my opinion for what it's worth.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by CommanderInTheRye

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’m not sure how Ron is skirting responsibility on the QB position.  The dude literally went out of his way to tell the world that it was him who wanted Wentz, not Dan.  He admits today that the QB position is still the biggest problem, after the guy he went to bat for pooped the bed yesterday.

 

I get you guys are pissed off that the season is over and want blood, but c’mon man - no need to make up more stuff to be mad about.

[MrJL]

5 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Hmm, we have a philosophical difference here.

 

To me, the man in charge is always at fault.

 

If someone beneath him makes an error it's the leader's responsibility to correct it or hire someone else.

 

If those people are retained and they continue to make the same errors the fault clearly lies with the primary decision maker.

 

Everything else is a song and dance show that only distracts from the real issue.

 

I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with me, I'm just asserting my opinion for what it's worth.

 

 

 

But Rivera isn't the man in absolute charge and there are people who dislike the guy who signs the checks

[Daniel.redskins]

Nope!  The QB situation is Ron's fault.  He should have grown balls in 2020 and told Dan to **** off and draft Tua or Herbert.  In 2021 he drafted no QBs and thought Fitzpatrick, who literally every other team has canned, could make the playoffs.  I do support the Wentz trade because at least we took a shot.  But after the first Giants tie he should have grown balls and let Howell play. It was obvious to everyone that we weren't making playoffs with Wentz or Heinicke.  

 

Also, he allowed the o-line to fall to **** which has a direct negative impact on the QB.  Instead, we drafted small statue receivers who get manhandled.  

 

This is all Ron's fault.  The only hope he has is to put all eggs in the Howell basket and pray for a miracle.  Because if he doesn't win a playoff game next year he will never step foot on a football field again.  

[DJHJR86]

If Howell starts next Sunday, this will be the third season in a row under Rivera where there have been 3+ different quarterbacks making a start.

 

2020:

Haskins

Allen

Smith

Heinicke

 

2021:

Fitzpatrick

Heinicke

Gilbert

 

2022:

Wentz

Heinicke

Howell (?)

[Skinsinparadise]

My take on Rivera specifically to QB is I am glad he keeps swinging.  But I get peoples frustration with the misses. 
 

I am with the Howie Roseman declared philosophy of keep swinging at QB, don’t double down and play out mistakes to justify Qb moves that aren’t panning out, which many teams do. 
 

Ron adapts that approach which I like. But obviously he has to wear his mistakes as he swings and misses.  
 

But in short I want every FO guy we have in the future take this approach. Don’t keep riding Jason Campbell for years, but move on, etc 

I am listening to Danny Rouhier right now rail about we are now doing this again, QB search like it’s the end of the world. To me what would piss me off is not that hey we are going fishing again but instead it would be we are keeping Wentz and we will load him up with more weapons 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

 

It's such a Dan Snyder move and I'm glad it failed spectacularly yesterday.  He can't sell the team fast enough.  

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m not sure how Ron is skirting responsibility on the QB position.  The dude literally went out of his way to tell the world that it was him who wanted Wentz, not Dan.  He admits today that the QB position is still the biggest problem, after the guy he went to bat for pooped the bed yesterday.

 

I get you guys are pissed off that the season is over and want blood, but c’mon man - no need to make up more stuff to be mad about.

 

Yeah I took his press conference to basically mean. Wentz isn’t the guy, I was wrong. And we are searching again. 
 

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It's such a Dan Snyder move and I'm glad it failed spectacularly yesterday.  He can't sell the team fast enough.  

 

 

As Standig wrote after talking to agents. Among other things they have to pay a premium to get guys because players with options don’t want to come here because of Dan’s rotten reputation 

[CommanderInTheRye]

13 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

But Rivera isn't the man in absolute charge and there are people who dislike the guy who signs the checks

 

 

There is a hierarchy of power in most organizations.

 

All should claim personal responsibility and be held to account for those things they control within the hierarchy.

 

That means that Wentz should accept full responsibility for HIS performance on the field yesterday and during the first 6 games.

 

Turner should accept full responsibility for the overall performance of the OFFENSE yesterday and throughout the past 3 seasons.

 

Rivera should accept full responsibility for the overall performance of the TEAM both yesterday and for the last 3 years.

 

And Mr Snyder should accept full responsibility for the performance of the ENTIRE ORGANIZATION since he bought the team.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by CommanderInTheRye

[Simmsy]

5 hours ago, CobraCommander said:

I wonder how close he is to losing the locker room with the decision to go to Wentz. Not that week 18 matters anymore but this could be the turning point for him in that room. 

 

I don't care, there is no way that there aren't players in the locker room questioning the judgement of the coaches. Not saying they're turning on him, but cracks MUST be forming.

[Renegade7]

43 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Hurts is a possible MVP this year. I'd say that's definitely something the top QBs do. Yes, he will be paid like that. I don't know if he'll go after a Watson **** sandwich and if he does, doubt Howie pays that out. Probably do what he did with Wentz.

 

Yea, I'd say that's the danger of trying the goal of a QB getting the job done, their ceiling could force a money conversation that can turn into a mess. 

 

I've seen a lot of back and forth on if he elevates the team the way an elite QB is paid to do, if you feel he's there, he's gonna get that money from someone.  I didn't get that vibe in the MNF game we played against them, but that's one game out several he's played this year.

 

43 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

"we should find an above average vet vs a journeyman?" Tht's the same thing, unless you want to do a Russ, Watson, Staffy type trade. I don't. I want to stabilize the position. The team is good. Say for an example it's Brissett. He's mediocre and doesn't win or lose you games, but allows the team to win. If Howell or another rookie step up and we get a Mike White, Brock Purdy thing going, great. Those things don't happen whe your offense is a ****show. Our QB stage is set for failure between the line and OC.

 

I'm again not convinced "unable to help win games" and only "keep from losing them" will be enough in our division, may have to agree to disagee on that one.  If Giants were smart, they wont overpay Danny Dimes and try to upgrade at QB, that would put us too far behind our rivals imo for Jacoby to be enough to keep up with them.

 

I mentioned earlier in the thread the need to look into if Love is serious about getting out from behind Rodgers.  I'm open to waiting to see if Carr gets cut before saying we have to trade to get an actual upgrade, willing to at least comprise on that.  Trey Lance may be a 2nd or 3rd day pick with potential high upside low risk given the emergence of Purdy. 

 

We do have better trade options then overpriced, overhill veterans this offseason, that's what I'm aiming at in regards to trading for QB.  For the record. I don't put Lemar in that category, but open to hearing the case to leave that man alone.

 

I don't see where we can add a bunch of talent we can afford to keep outside of oline once whenever the QB situation here is resolved.  Folks like Gibson, Dotson, Robinson, Curl, Forrest, Davis, St-Juste, Sweat and Young are all on rookie contracts right now.

 

@Skinsinparadise keeps bringing up the likely sharp up tick in cap space, which I buy, but I'm remaining extremely skeptical on that opening the door too add a bunch load more talent as every player in the NFL will start shifting the size of their contracts as the cap grows, not jus QB.  And to be fair, that is fair, theyve collectively earned that as the leauge has grown.

[88Comrade2000]

12 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Nope!  The QB situation is Ron's fault.  He should have grown balls in 2020 and told Dan to **** off and draft Tua or Herbert.  In 2021 he drafted no QBs and thought Fitzpatrick, who literally every other team has canned, could make the playoffs.  I do support the Wentz trade because at least we took a shot.  But after the first Giants tie he should have grown balls and let Howell play. It was obvious to everyone that we weren't making playoffs with Wentz or Heinicke.  

 

Also, he allowed the o-line to fall to **** which has a direct negative impact on the QB.  Instead, we drafted small statue receivers who get manhandled.  

 

This is all Ron's fault.  The only hope he has is to put all eggs in the Howell basket and pray for a miracle.  Because if he doesn't win a playoff game next year he will never step foot on a football field again.  

Ron should’ve told Dan that he will have Haskins a shot but he intended to draft a qb.  He didn’t, just traded for Kyle. His downfall began then.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[CobraCommander]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Gotta keep drafting them. Giving these guys 28 million plus giving up picks is so stupid. Nobody just moves on from great QBs. The draft is the answer.

[Est.1974]

Yep dump Wentz and TH and get Carr to pair with Howell. 

 

[Conn]

We have to be self-aware enough as a fanbase to know that Tua would be retired already if he was drafted here. Even in Miami with excellent coaching this year and tons of weapons, the dude’s career may be shortened or in the worst case, over. He needs to decide that for himself, but it’s not looking good with all his concussions. 
 

But one thing we can be sure of is that Tua would have had worse coaching and the worst possible outcome here in the tail end of the Snyder era that we’re now experiencing. There would have been bigger concussion cover-up controversies  here, he’d retire mid-season, etc. It would have been a mess. 
 

Just for the record. Not in any defense of Snyder requiring we stick with Haskins the year after he forced the pick and ****ed up our roster. Just…stating what would have undoubtedly happened in that adjacent reality, if we actually drafted Tua at 2nd overall. 
 

So nobody needs to feel a yearning for that specific alternate reality outcome. It would have ended horrifically. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

I am on a plane flying using my WiFi tough for me to cut and paste but for those here that like Carr click on that SI article I posted. 
 

In short, Jay Gruden thinks that’s who they should pursue and he’d be surprised if he’s not the QB here next season 

 

@Renegade7 I think you in particular will enjoy that article. I know I did 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Cooleyfan1993]

7 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

Gotta keep drafting them. Giving these guys 28 million plus giving up picks is so stupid. Nobody just moves on from great QBs. The draft is the answer.

The patriots: hold my beer  

 

(or was it bradys choice to leave New England….?)

[FootballZombie]

I'm down w/ swinging on big fish before moving on to the 10 Mil QB pile.

 

You can give up paydays to guys you believe are the future. That says something about the quality of player you are receiving. What you don't do is hand out big money for a reclamation project or an audition year. Your already unsure of the guy in that situation, don't double down on him.

 

I'd be taking HR hacks at Carr. He would be an instant no question franchise QB, which is what we have been searching for.

[CobraCommander]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am flying using my WiFi tough for me to cut and paste but for those here that like Carr click on that SI article I posted. 
 

In short, Jay Gruden thinks that’s who they should pursue and he’d be surprised if he’s not the QB here next season 

Isn’t this assuming Carr wants to come here? I heard he had a no trade clause.

 

4 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

The patriots: hold my beer  

 

(or was it bradys choice to leave New England….?)

I’m not sure. It seemed like a divorce both parties wanted. Both Belichick and Brady’s ego had to be proven right respectively.