The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[zCommander]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Why not just say that? Vs. pretend Taylor's similar to him statistically?

 

I'm just not sure what a lot of you guys want.  Actually, I do know what a lot of fans want - but it's not logical.  We all want an elite QB or a promising rookie on a cheap contract.  But we've got the 11th pick in a draft full of question mark QB's and we've shot our shot at the elite QB's two offseason in a row to no avail.  Super Bowl or bust has a nice ring to it, but it's not realistic for us.  We've got a corny new name, the worst owner in sports, among the worst facilities and stadium in the league, a depleted fanbase that can't even half fill their stadium and generally a really awful and well deserved bad reputation.

 

Beyond all that, Ron owes it to the guys currently on the roster to get them a legitimate QB that can throw the football like a pro.  I'm not fully absolving him for how we got here, but at the end of the day - he doesn't have a whole lot work with and he went and got us a legitimate NFL starting QB and we still have the ability to make a move for a rookie should one we really like make their way to us.

 

Okay so we get a rookie at 11 and have Wentz for a year so we can make the other players happy for a year. But what did it cost to do that though? Rolling with a rookie and Taylor would have looked really bad since Dan is trying to get people's butt in the seats after the name change. For me it is still a Dan pressuring Ron move so Dan can sell more jerseys. This attitude for the last 25+ years has gotten us where we are today. So I just simply think this was not a good trade at all. For once I just really wanted a change that looked like we were going to build for the future. That hope now is pretty much gone, at least for me right now. 

[evmiii]

Trying to look at this glass half full.

 

If our highly trained professional talent evaluation team has done their thorough review and determined that Wentz was the best option who am I to argue.  If they are right, we don’t draft a qb @11 and get a instant contributor best available player.  Maybe a top ILB, safety, CB or WR.  Maybe we pick up a QB if one they like slips to our second round pick or another good football player.  
 

Carson does well and comes back refreshed, renewed and inspired by Ron’s and Scott’s leadership.  Physically he has all the tools, if they are right, two third round picks is a bargain.

 

if, despite all their efforts, Carson just can’t get his head right   We cut him after next year without any obligations and start all over again.

 

I’m trying real hard to get past my sincere dislike for the former Eagle Carson Wentz.  I think a few wins would go along way towards that end.

[tomwvr]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Two THIRD round picks.

 

I'm OK with this. Wentz would not have been my first choice but the cost of getting him is low and he's under contract for three more years at just over $27M per year including roster bonuses which is not stupid money for a starting QB. And none of that is guaranteed past this season so we can move on at any time. I don't think we draft a QB first round now, but we could/should still draft one 2nd or 4th round if someone is there we like as a developmental guy.

 

If Wentz continues to be the inconsistent guy he's been we can push all the chips in next year in the draft. If he balls out and suddenly goes back to the MVP candidate he was a few years ago we can think about an extension next season.

 

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Two THIRD round picks.

 

I'm OK with this. Wentz would not have been my first choice but the cost of getting him is low and he's under contract for three more years at just over $27M per year including roster bonuses which is not stupid money for a starting QB. And none of that is guaranteed past this season so we can move on at any time. I don't think we draft a QB first round now, but we could/should still draft one 2nd or 4th round if someone is there we like as a developmental guy.

 

If Wentz continues to be the inconsistent guy he's been we can push all the chips in next year in the draft. If he balls out and suddenly goes back to the MVP candidate he was a few years ago we can think about an extension next season.

when the first comment came out 106.7 said it was 2 first.

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Making this trade forces Wentz to have to play for us and if it doesn't work out, we can walk away next year cleanly. If it does, we have one of the better QBs in the league.

Just has major Alex Smith/Mark Brunell vibes...just PLEASE don't give him an insanely stupid extension...please?

[Bacon]

11 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

The tweeter can't see the obvious, I guess.

 

With Wilson and Rodgers off the board, the available options were dwindling. I'm assuming our FO didn't voluntarily offer more out of the kindness of their hearts, so I think its safe to assume the increasingly limited options, on top of other teams likely making bids for Wentz, drove up the price.

 

Top-tier QB's are now getting $40-50M per year. Hell, even grandpa Matt Ryan is costing the falcons $48M this year. $28M seems downright cheap by comparison.

It's not that $28m isn't affordable, it's that it's $26m more than they paid TH last year and the team has a number of holes to fill. Will Wentz put up significantly greater production? 

 

The frustrating aspect of this discussion is that we had the same one last season. Wentz is not the kind of elite QB that makes price tag discussions irrelevant. It's the same old ****. But that's where the franchise is at right now. They're praying a solid run can bring in better options. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Bacon

[Inigo Montoya]

You guys… don’t forget our favorite move hasn’t even happened yet. Dude is gonna get a re worked deal for sure. 3 years 85 mil or something. Prepare for it.

 

Cut/ re work Collins deal. Extend Terry, find a way to get Wagner, trade back in 1st, draft a WR early and a RB in the 2nd-4th and let’s roll 

[tomwvr]

1 minute ago, evmiii said:

Trying to look at this glass half full.

 

If our highly trained professional talent evaluation team has done their thorough review and determined that Wentz was the best option who am I to argue.  If they are right, we don’t draft a qb @11 and get a instant contributor best available player.  Maybe a top ILB, safety, CB or WR.  Maybe we pick up a QB if one they like slips to our second round pick or another good football player.  
 

Carson does well and comes back refreshed, renewed and inspired by Ron’s and Scott’s leadership.  Physically he has all the tools, if they are right, two third round picks is a bargain.

 

if, despite all their efforts, Carson just can’t get his head right   We cut him after next year without any obligations and start all over again.

 

I’m trying real hard to get past my sincere dislike for the former Eagle Carson Wentz.  I think a few wins would go along way towards that end.

And if he doesn’t work out the ron era will end with no winning 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Not sure about this. Heinike might just beat him out in training camp. 
 

Nor sure if kidding. 

lol Wentz has flaws for sure but you really have to watch both again if there’s even a 5% chance that you aren’t sure if you’re kidding here. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

Just has major Alex Smith/Mark Brunell vibes...just PLEASE don't give him an insanely stupid extension...please?

I really liked both of them. We won games with those QBs. Wentz is definitely better though.

 

and absolutely agree. Just leave his contract the hell alone. Bite that bullet and just move forward.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Okay so we get a rookie at 11 and have Wentz for a year so we can make the other players happy for a year. But what did it cost to do that though? Rolling with a rookie and Taylor would have looked really bad since Dan is trying to get people's butt in the seats after the name change. For me it is still a Dan pressuring Ron move so Dan can sell more jerseys. This attitude for the last 25+ years has gotten us where we are today. So I just simply think this was not a good trade at all. For once I just really wanted a change that looked like we were going to build for the future. That hope now is pretty much gone, at least for me right now. 

How have they mortgaged the future with this move?  
 

I also think it’s a stretch to conclude this is Dan wanting to put butts in seats.  For one, I think a guy like Malik Willis puts more butts in seats than Carson Wentz.  Besides that, I’ve never seen a head coach more transparent and blunt about doing whatever it takes to acquire a QB than Ron.  He certainly doesn’t come across like Dans got his hand up his ass like a puppet when he’s said it.

 

 

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I really liked both of them. We won games with those QBs. Wentz is definitely better though.

 

and absolutely agree. Just leave his contract the hell alone. Bite that bullet and just move forward.

If they want to re-work it and shift some money into next year, fine. But FFS...no 6 year deal...

[Bifflog]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

McKissic is a free agent right now. 

 

I was thinking we'd probably resign him, but that is true.

[MartinC]

3 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

 

when the first comment came out 106.7 said it was 2 first.

 

106.7 and to some extent JP Finally on Twitter are becoming unreliable and taking not so much a glass half full as a glass shattered into a million pieces editorial position. I stopped listening to the JP Finally podcast a while ago.

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Not sure about this. Heinike might just beat him out in training camp. 
 

Nor sure if kidding. 

 

He wont. Partly because he wont be given that opportunity, partly because he's just not an NFL starter and the coaches and front office are as one on that view.

[Inigo Montoya]

We had to make this trade, we aren’t a preferred destination. Jimmy G doesn’t even want to ****ing be here. The colts soured on Carson and probably think they are ****ing him over with this move. But they had us over a barrel because we’re desperate. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

 

Clearly you guys don't know how to lookup stats. Look at yards, completed passes. Turnover is not the only stat. That is where Wentz was better at and which I said he was. 

Have you just morphed into a full-blown troll recently for laughs or suffered some sort of accident we should all have been made aware of? 

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, Bifflog said:

 

I was thinking we'd probably resign him, but that is true.

 

I'm pretty sure we would like to. Now that we have the QB in the house there will start to be moves to free up some cap space and then we will see some offers to the free agents we want to keep. We are still just under the cap even with Wentz on the books but not by much.They have to address Terry McLaurin soon as well.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I'm confident we're going to trade down with the Saints or Steelers and re-group the picks we traded away.

I could see it if we don’t love a QB available at #11 and someone else does. Trade back and draft a WR at better value, recoup the lost picks. 

[MartinC]

Just now, Conn said:

Have you just morphed into a full-blown troll recently for laughs or suffered some sort of accident we should all have been made aware of? 

 

Let's stick to debating the trade and QB position overall and positions on that, not each others mental health or motives. 

[Zim489]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We won games with those QBs.

Just not playoff games. I couldnt care any less about going roughly 500. No worse place to be. 

[VirginiaVibes]

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 minute ago, Inigo Montoya said:

We had to make this trade, we aren’t a preferred destination. Jimmy G doesn’t even want to ****ing be here. The colts soured on Carson and probably think they are ****ing him over with this move. But they had us over a barrel because we’re desperate. 

 

 

Bingo!

 

This is not the trade you make if you have options and are playing on a level playing field.

 

The reality is no one...REPEAT WITH EMPHASIS NO ONE who has options wants to come to Snyder's Commanders.

 

In fact if Wentz had a no trade clause he would likely have exercised it to prevent this trade hoping for a better destination.

 

This is a case of two ugly ducklings that despise each other but hope that their off spring will produce a graceful swan.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

Sure, I should be jumping for joy and cheering really loud that we got Wentz. My bad. 

No, you should not be making intellectually dishonest posts about stats, which are easily verifiable with no grey area. If you want to make an argument that makes sense with stats, that sort of thing is encouraged. Come on, man.  

[BleedBNG]

Why is everyone saying a $28M hit. I thought it was $22M. What am I missing?

[FLSkinz83]

A big part of the Wentz demise in Indy is the vax.  Not an issue anymore.

[SpacePenguin]

I hope everyone realizes that there is an incoming Wentz contract extention, call it a wentztention.  3 years 30 million per.

 

Ron's prepared to ride this ginger dandylad into veteran mediocrity. Commence the Red Scare!