The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

No question about it, but my point was that TH will beat out any rookie we bring in next season just based on his experience and skill set alone. Some on this site think TH is a joke of a QB. He's not that. He is still learning how to play in the league and will be better moving forward imo.

 

He might technically beat them out, but if the rookie is close they'll start the rookie to get him experience. No reason to roll with Heinicke in that situation unless you really 100% feel like the rookie isn't ready and it would be very counterproductive to have him start.

 

And TH isn't a "joke" of a QB. He's just not a starting caliber one. Which is fine. Hardly anyone is, and having a good backup is important.

 

(I think kingdaddy has me blocked so I'm assuming this will fall on deaf ears)

[HigSkin]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Another shoe dropping.  Some are saying these coaches have to be hired first to set up the dance for some of these trades to happen

 

 

 

 

Yea, seems like this is the week to hire the new HC's and Dan Quinn is staying in Dallas

[88Comrade2000]

2 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Yea, seems like this is the week to hire the new HC's and Dan Quinn is staying in Dallas

Dan will get a job again, if not this cycle. There’s still 7 openings at the moment.

 

As for Dallas; I think it’s obvious who the next coach is. If Sean Payton wants to return to coaching after a year off; Dallas will hire him.

[lavar1156]

I'm skeptical of Russell Wilson. Because of his smaller stature I question how many good years he has left in him before his body breaks down. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Hitman#21]

6 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

I'm skeptical of Russell Wilson. Because of his smaller stature I question how many good years he has left in him before his body breaks down. 

this is a bad take 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Redskins 2021]

Got to hope Raiders want to make a splash and go after Wilson I just can't see him moving. I think we could get Carr if the Raiders get Wilson. Don't know who Seattle would have for QB then.

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

Yea, I was thinking about this and the development of Justin Fields.   Most Defensive HC's need really strong OC's and QB coaches to develop a young QB but there's risk to it in that if they're really sharp, they're likely gone in a couple years to HC positions. 

 

We maybe have that issue here.  Can our OC and QB coach develop a young QB?  Not saying you don't draft a young QB or keep trying because of it, just saying it's an interesting dynamic.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by HigSkin

[Redskins 2021]

 

Fields will not be available 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 

Fields will not be available 

Its helpful to add, “I don’t think…” to these kinds of posts for what it’s worth.

 

Unless you’re an insider or have a source you don’t know this as a fact.
 

Though I tend to agree, I don’t believe Fields will be available. I haven’t seen anything suggesting he will or won’t yet.

[Redskins 2021]

Just now, KDawg said:

Its helpful to add, “I don’t think…” to these kinds of posts for what it’s worth.

 

Unless you’re an insider or have a source you don’t know this as a fact.
 

Though I tend to agree, I don’t believe Fields will be available. I haven’t seen anything suggesting he will or won’t yet.

No inside info here 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

I've looked in to this and haven't found anything to show limit.  I do know the NFL has to approve/disapprove but can't find anything that says there's a limit.  If that's the case, you would think Schefter would know that before saying it!  LOL

It may be something like the next 3 drafts or if you were doing the trade during the 2022 draft it is that draft plus the next 3....meaning you could do 4 in total....

 

but I’m no expert 

[shemp nixon]

28 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 

Fields will not be available 

Agreed... I would think a Patullo hire means they want him to install the system Philly ran last season. Fields could be a great fit in that scheme.

 

But if he is available, we should pounce.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

 Some on this site think TH is a joke

If he isn't a joke, why does Ron literally laugh out loud at the notion of him even possibly starting next year? He laughed out loud and then said of course not.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I think fields has a lot of potential and he was probably someone we were interested in snagging last year if the draft lined up the right way. I'm not certain that the Bears would be willing to move him, but if they were I wouldn't hesitate to give up our #11 pick for him, but it might take more than that.

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

No question about it, but my point was that TH will beat out any rookie we bring in next season just based on his experience and skill set alone. Some on this site think TH is a joke of a QB. He's not that. He is still learning how to play in the league and will be better moving forward imo.

 

He's had a lot of great moments but he's limited by his physical capabilities.  He's not a starting level talent.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

1. Sign players where the cupboard is bare.

The cupboard is bare at QB.  Use it there.

 

You could have a cabinet full of fine china at WR, use it there.

 

Most of the rest of the team has competent starters.  OL over-achieved, and they have good starters and good depth.  They will draft a new Guard to add to the rotation.  They are used to playing without Scherff because he misses so much time. 

 

You're not going to spend more money on the DL. 

 

I don't care who's playing MLB if we have Wilson/Rodgers/Carr  + Adams.  You could play if you want.  Doesn't matter.   

 

The secondary is set for now.  They will re-sign McCain, and that's fine. 

 

 

17 hours ago, MrJL said:

2. Extend players who are nearing or at the end of their contracts

The only player they need to extend is McLaurin, which they can do anyway.  They probably trade Payne as part of the deal.  Sweat and Young don't need extensions yet.

 

17 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

3. Save it for later re-signings

You can't really save cap-space.  I know you can roll some over, but not all of it.  

 

 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

No question about it, but my point was that TH will beat out any rookie we bring in next season just based on his experience and skill set alone. Some on this site think TH is a joke of a QB. He's not that. He is still learning how to play in the league and will be better moving forward imo.

 

No one is saying TH is a joke. What they are saying is he is not a starter and some of us are saying he is not the greatest back-up either considering it looks like Ds have caught up with him. So to address the bolded I pulled his numbers for this past year. I sub-totaled 3 sections, the first 8 games, the 4 gm winning streak, his last 4 gms (he missed gm 5 due to Covid). 

 

Some of the more interesting items, at least that I see:

First 8 gms, comp % 63.9%, 11 TDs, 9 Int, ave rating 87.6, Y/A 7.24, AY/A 6.7 - last 3 are averages - They should still be within 95%. Sacks/Yds 14/95 

Four game winning streak - Comp % 77.3%, 7TD, 2 Int, Ave rating 98.1, 7.4 Y/A, 7.3 AY/A - Sacks 10/71

 

All in all, you could see a progression from the first 8 gms to the winning streak. Comp% much better, much better TD/Int ratio, QB Rating definitely higher. He even started to get the sacks in hand.  That was against better competition. But then Dan Quinn and dallas figure him out.

 

Last 4 gms: Comp % - 53.5%, 2TD, 4 Ints, average rating of 75.4 including a 28.8, Y/A - 6.3 and AY/A5.4.

 

In fairness expecting the production during the 4 gm win streak to stay that high is probably not reasonable. However, he not only regressed in every category he got significant worse. This demonstrates that DCs have figured him out. And that is he cannot make the mid to deep throws well enough to really hurt you. They can sell out for the run, and flood 10 to 15 yds beyond the LOS and not worry he is going to burn you deep often enough to make it a problem. 

 

If he was still learning and we should expect him to get better, we should not see such a dramatic drop off those last 4 gms. Had he at least maintained what he had to start the season, I could see having some more confidence in him. But his last 4 gms were horrible. 

 

I do et keeping him as a back-up though because he knows the system and he is pretty cheap - not $1M but still, $2.35M is pretty cheap for a back-up. 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by goskins10

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 hours ago, skins island connection said:

So, you truly believe, that if Rodgers was the starter with the very same squads that TH played with that the team would be in the playoffs?

100%.  And they might have even won a game. (Maybe.  Not necessarily)  And Terry would have had 13,000 yards.  Rodgers would have made WR#2, whether it was Carter, Sims, Brown, or whoever, into something worth paying attention to. Gibson would have had 500+ yards receiving and 12,000 yards rushing, because he never would have had to run into a stacked line.  Like, almost ever.  

 

I absolutely think Rodger + this team could have beaten (not saying they would have, but absolutely could have) the Saints, Denver, GB (who clearly wouldn't have had Rodgers),and beaten Philly at least once  Maybe the Chargers in week 1? Maybe a split with Dallas in the game when they weren't completely ravaged by injury and COVID?  That's 6 potential more wins with just adding Rodgers.  Do they win all of them?  No.  But maybe half?  That's 10-7 and they're in the playoffs.  Everything else being equal.  I think they get 4 of 6, and are 11-6 would be my personal guess.    

 

Something I think people undervalue in today's NFL:  A top 5 QB is a force multiplier.  He makes EVERYTHING around him better.  He would make McLaurin better, because he wouldn't have to do gymnastics to catch every ball.  Balls would be thrown on time to specific spots where receivers are supposed to be as they are coming out of their breaks.  Great QBs help pass catchers create separation in a way because if the ball arrives at the right time, body positioning IS separation.  

 

They make the running game better.  Why? You have to defend EVERY BLADE OF GRASS.  You can't really stack the line to stop the run.  If you do, the balls going over your head.  

 

They even make defenses better because most of the time, you're playing either even or with a lead, allowing defenses to take more risks and play more aggressively.  

 

You could replace Rodgers with Wilson, Mahomes and Allen, and get the same result.

 

Carr?  They probably make the playoffs, but it's MUCH closer.  Jimmy? Maybe it's closer but who knows. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

31 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Carr?  They probably make the playoffs, but it's MUCH closer.  Jimmy? Maybe it's closer but who knows. 

While we're going through this exercise, we should probably add that we were very fortunate during our 4 game win streak, heck - even in the early season games against NYG and ATL.  I'm not trying to take the wins from Heineke, a win is a win - but there's nothing that suggests that winning clip is sustainable or to be expected had we run it back once more. 

 

I just keep seeing this "<insert HOF QB here> and they couldnt win" narrative being spewed a lot around here.  And while it's being entertained, the other side of the coin is just how close some of our wins were to being losses.  And I get it, the league has parity - there are a lot of close games.  It's just if you look at how we get our 7 wins, none of them that I can recall were 'in the bag' so to speak.  Ultimately, if I'm a betting man - I'd bet against a Heineke led WFT producing 7+ wins if we did it all over again.

Edited January 27, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[kingdaddy]

53 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

No one is saying TH is a joke. What they are saying is he is not a starter and some of us are saying he is not the greatest back-up either considering it looks like Ds have caught up with him. So to address the bolded I pulled his numbers for this past year. I sub-totaled 3 sections, the first 8 games, the 4 gm winning streak, his last 4 gms (he missed gm 5 due to Covid). 

 

Some of the more interesting items, at least that I see:

First 8 gms, comp % 63.9%, 11 TDs, 9 Int, ave rating 87.6, Y/A 7.24, AY/A 6.7 - last 3 are averages - They should still be within 95%. Sacks/Yds 14/95 

Four game winning streak - Comp % 77.3%, 7TD, 2 Int, Ave rating 98.1, 7.4 Y/A, 7.3 AY/A - Sacks 10/71

 

All in all, you could see a progression from the first 8 gms to the winning streak. Comp% much better, much better TD/Int ratio, QB Rating definitely higher. He even started to get the sacks in hand.  That was against better competition. But then Dan Quinn and dallas figure him out.

 

Last 4 gms: Comp % - 53.5%, 2TD, 4 Ints, average rating of 75.4 including a 28.8, Y/A - 6.3 and AY/A5.4.

 

In fairness expecting the production during the 4 gm win streak to stay that high is probably not reasonable. However, he not only regressed in every category he got significant worse. This demonstrates that DCs have figured him out. And that is he cannot make the mid to deep throws well enough to really hurt you. They can sell out for the run, and flood 10 to 15 yds beyond the LOS and not worry he is going to burn you deep often enough to make it a problem. 

 

If he was still learning and we should expect him to get better, we should not see such a dramatic drop off those last 4 gms. Had he at least maintained what he had to start the season, I could see having some more confidence in him. But his last 4 gms were horrible. 

 

I do et keeping him as a back-up though because he knows the system and he is pretty cheap - not $1M but still, $2.35M is pretty cheap for a back-up. 

 

 

 

Respectfully, and nice job on the research/stats, COVID and injuries totally depleted the offense. TH is certainly a solid backup...you know what I wonder, with all the teams that will need QB's this offseason would any of them be interested in Heinicke if we have no plans for him? He's better than what some teams have right now (Carolina). 

[mistertim]

Heinicke has more value to us as a solid backup than the 5th or 6th round pick we'd probably get for him.

[DJHJR86]

Entertaining the idea of getting Carr is legitimately baffling to me.  Same for Justin Fields.  It's Rodgers, Wilson, or a rookie.  Anything else will be a failure, IMO, and doom Ron.

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

You can't really save cap-space.  I know you can roll some over, but not all of it.  

 

 

I'm looking around and I cannot find a limit on the amount of cap space you can roll over.  So, I believe yes, you can roll over every cent you don't spend