The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Riggo#44]

 

[Hooper]

This thread is hilarious.  

 

So if we don't take Maye, Peters is bowing down to his coaches and is now a terrible GM?

 

We know nothing. 

 

We could still take Maye. Or McCarthy. 

 

And who knows? Maybe Peters does lean Maye or McCarthy, but remembers his experience in San Fran when the scouts convinced Shanny to take Lance because of his "traits."

 

Not that Mac Jones would have been a great pick either.'

 

Or maybe the pick will be Daniels just because you know Peters and company after really digging in think he's the best pick at 2.

 

 

 

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

While I don't believe we are going to select McCarthy (absent a trade back) I would agree with the two points this tweeter offers, should we choose him.

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

43 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

My fandom has been hanging by a thread for years.  This is the best shot we've had at genuinely escaping NFL poverty in a generation.  If we blow it, I'm not going to tolerate getting kicked in the nuts by this team any more.  Especially if we blow it in a way that I felt was totally predictable and avoidable.  I'm not going to give up on the NFL, but I'll stop watching the Commanders.

I totally hear you. I used to drive upwards of 50 miles to San Jose Live to catch games at a giant sports bar complex in the bay in '96-'97 as a college student, a much shorter drive to the Englander and Ricky's in the East bay '98-'04, I've watched an average of 1-2 games since my kid was born in '16 every season, the fandom collapsed by probably a good 70-85% since the end of the RGIII era in early '13 and the McCloughan debacle kicked in a bit of what was left. Once they ignored QB in '20 and '21, that killed nearly all of it. If you check my posting history until this year you can see it, I basically only posted during the draft process every year until now because I didn't pay attention to anything else, especially after the typically disappointing drafts. 

 

The big but slow move probably happened circa '02 when USMNT just gave me much more joy, and over the years the Caps as well, to some extent the Nats and Guardians (it would take a while to explain how I ended up picking two baseball teams as an elementary school kid a gazillion years ago but it half makes sense)....but everything that has happened since '93 has worked to torch a good 80-90% of my childhood fandom. Snyder getting ejected via trebuchet gave it a chance again, but it will never be what it once was, because it was magical when I was a kid, and horrible ever since, just a source of pain, frustration and misery to the extent that I made sure my kid completely ignored the team (he vacillates between the Raiders and the Niners-those being the local teams). Botching this gimme will only make it worse, I take solace in the fact that a lot of people and analytics types I respect disagree me, but not that much, the alarms of bust risk have been ear shattering for months. I will be surprised if he has an elite or very good career, not totally shocked though, as I've said, I'm more alarmed because it seems so obvious why the risk he presents is so much higher, and the ceiling not higher at all, than with Maye. Seems so obvious to me. Pray I'm wrong. 

[Warhead36]

Listening to Cooley's take actually makes me want Maye more. I'm sold on enormous upside. If he has to sit a bit then fine, I can accept that. I'm in this for the long run.

 

I can live with taking home run swings and missing. Fortune favors the bold. Go big or go home. Scared money don't make no money.

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Meh, Ive accepted that its gonna be Daniels. 

We need to make sure he’s protected; so he’s a 10 year starter and not a 3-5 year starter, many of us fear.

[kingdaddy]

57 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Part one of my notes from the recent Kevin Sheehan podcast with Chris Cooley on Drake Maye (I got tired and will do the rest later)...

 

Note: anything inside quotation marks is as close to Cooley's exact wording as I could get it:

 

Pt. 1-- Cooley On Drake Maye

 

A. Opening overview...

 

"I thought I would love Drake Maye and I do like Drake Maye a lot, and there's probably more intangibles and high level upside with Maye than anybody else in the draft, but there's also more downside with Maye than anybody else in the draft."

 

B. 2022 season at NC...

--had ton of talent around him

--had excellent season

--made big plays

 

C. 2023 season...

 

--not same team

--oline worse 

-recievers worse

 

**similar to the Josh Allen effect at Wyoming. In that Allen's last year team was worse and his play was worse than year before**

 

 

D. Positives for Maye...

 

--Of the 4 qbs he has best arm talent

--Can change arm angles

--Makes tempo throws

 

**"When he's in rhythm and good he's as good as anybody in the draft-- he's awesome-- it's Mahomes-ish"**

 

-He can make all throws 

-Ton of arm strength

-Drives ball 50 yards easily,even when not set

-Has wow effect when you watch him at times

-Great mobility

-Makes off platform throws like a shortstop

-Big and athletic, extends plays

**Ton of potential**

-Has quick release, can get rid of ball quick.

 

**"If you were just to put together a hilight roll of Drake Maye it's amazing."

(You'd think he's a superstar. That's why he seems so good on youtube cutups. Misleading--Doesn't tell the real story.)

 

"The problem is you can also put together a much worse lowlight film of him."

(That's what you don't see on those youtube cutups)**

 

E. Negatives for Maye...

 

--Terribly inconsistent.

 

"You can't make a bad decision a worse decision."

 

--He routinely turns bad plays into worse plays. He does it over and over again.

--Throws passes so bad it's bizarre. 

Scratching your head thinking-- What is he doing?

 

"I think he WANTS to see guys open. If he doesn't see guys open he's immediately off script"

 

--(plays hero ball)

--starts running out of the pocket when he doesn't need to

--Panics and throws balls up for grabs.

--Throws too many interceptions

--Had loads of potential picks that luckily weren't picks-- (those balls will be picked off in the pros.)

 

"He's an interception machine."

(Will have ton of picks in nfl)

 

--Poor processor. Very average.

Sometimes is able to overcome his slow processing and recognition with release and ability to get ball out. (Won't work in pros)

--Doesn't really understand what is happening with coverages.

--He would benefit from another year in college system. (Just not ready)

--It will take enormous patience for an NFL team to take the time to make him better.

Must dummy down the offense and start him off slow.

(Allow him to make plays with arm athletics not processing ability until he catches up )

--He will have a ton of bad misses that are unexpected and defy logic.

Terrible in the pocket. Gets jumpy. (Skittish. Looks to get out and run too quickly, lacks composure, not calm.) ----------Always bouncing up and down, wasted movement.

 

**"He's consistently inaccurate. Throws balls at the feet, over heads, behind players, at their hip, random consistent inaccuracy."

 

Baffling inaccuracy. He's (randomly) inaccurate everywhere (inside, outside, short, medium, long) he throws the ball. Then the very next play he'll throw a perfect laser.**

 

--Ultimately this comes from his poor footwork, never being set, never being ready to throw.

-- He wants to move out of pocjet  under pressure, instead of resetting, planting, and quickly finding the open reciever.

 

"My problem with Maye is not his talent. He has an incredible upside and I would love to see it because it would be a lot of fun in the NFL. But it's the ultimate negatives that scare me enough, the bad balls, bad decisions, misreads, poor reads, and bad footwork throughout."

 

After Daniels and Caleb, Cooley said that he'd be interested in Maye.

 

Thinks it will be a real close decision between Maye and McCarthy for that third spot, as to which one goes 3 or 4.

 

McCarthy's negatives are unknown because of the way the team played, while Mayes are evident and obvious. He's clearly behind the top two qbs. Not a close decision 

 

"With Maye he's just not there right now."

 

Needs a lot of good serious basic coaching before he will be ready."

 

Talent through the roof if he hits, no idea if he will or how long it will take.

 

 

 

Great stuff, thanks for your synopsis. I think when I see Maye I think of Derrick Carr....capable of greatness but more capable of mediocrity. Has the size and arm but lacks in overall great, game changing QB play. 

[sinews]

We can't forget, or undersell, intangibles. Obviously we don't have all the inside info and what the FO has access to, but based on public comments from DQ, I believe that Maye's disposition, demeanor, and locker room fit is more in line with the mold this coaching staff is looking for. It seems to me like the coaching search definitely turned on intangibles and creating the right environment for a certain type of player.

 

Of course, it's totally possible that behind the scenes JD has shown more, and/or that it's not a deciding factor. It's just my opinion from the outside looking in that Maye is more a DQ type player.

 

And FTR, I will 100% be on board with JD if that's the pick, and where I'm coming from there's no issue with JD's intangibles, I just think Maye better translates to this particular locker room and what the staff/FO want. It's just my perception on the matter, nothing more. 

 

We shall see in short order, thankfully! 

[Idaho fan]

Listening to Sheehan.  Great listen with Cooley on Maye.  Miss hearing Cooley on a more regular basis - perhaps Im in the minority there but I always thought he was a good and smart listen.

 

Anyway, Sheehan also just replayed the audio on Maye when he was asked about top golf.  Maye comes across as a good dude and a legit great character guy.  Anyway, he (Sheehan) seemed to speculate that perhaps the reason that Jayden's agent was a little annoyed is because JD wasn't a golfer and had never swung a club before.  Made me wonder... Perhaps the team does indeed lean Daniels and this was a way for them to see him in a situation where he would not be as good as the others.  Swinging a golf club for the first time is an awkward and possibly embarrassing thing especially if surrounded by decent golfers.  By all accounts Daniels is super competitive and just maybe Peters, Quinn etc. wanted to see how he would react when he was put in a no win position.  I know Im reading to much into this but im trying to avoid work.

[Panninho]

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Great stuff, thanks for your synopsis. I think when I see Maye I think of Derrick Carr....capable of greatness but more capable of mediocrity. Has the size and arm but lacks in overall great, game changing QB play. 

 

Dude, what? Derek Carr? Carr has an average NFL arm, average mobility, subpar creativiy and playmaking ability. Carr is a worse version of Kirk Cousins. He is the definition of average. I honestly have no idea why a prospect with the highlight reel of Drake Maye and the sloppiness you also see at times can make you think you see Derek Carr. To me that is the exact opposite of a Derek Carr type of QB.😅

[Kalu44]

The funny thing is, we all have our opinions based on game tape, hearsay, talking heads, etc. We don't know what was said behind closed doors in those one vs one meetings. Coaches challenge players with pre and post-snap decisions, and overall football IQ. Maybe one QB stood out amongst them all? Heck, it could be JJ, who knows. All I'm saying is, that is a HUGE part of the decision, and none of us know how those interviews went. Have faith the FO makes the right decision.

[Dah-Dee]

4 minutes ago, Idaho fan said:

I know Im reading to much into this but im trying to avoid work.

 

Perfectly sums up the last few months in here and should be the new subtitle for this thread.

 

"The Official QB Thread: I Know I'm Reading Too Much Into This But I'm Trying To Avoid Work"

[RandyHolt]

Some Maye fans watching Daniels at top golf?

 

[Panninho]

If this happens, it would single-handeldy ruin every hope I had for this team. You just know how this would end. We would get rolled by the Giants for two decades because they got the player we were supposed to draft...

 

[Ghost of]

Reading Cooley's take on Maye and parts of it remind me of McCarthy. What I mean is that there's this sense I get that guys are saying Daniels is a fast processor and that everyone else in the top 4-5 is not (maybe they allow for Williams being a good processor.)  But when I review tape, not just highlights but the all-throws/runs and then consider the metrics, I'm not getting it (not entirely.) 

 

Basically, everyone is inconsistent and will need work either on footwork or on processing to a certain area of the field.  

[The Consigliere]

It would be pretty hilarious no matter how it played out (other than both hitting). Either a billion I Told You so's, or "thank God they didn't listen to me's,". In my case, I'll just be depressed as hell, and indulging in a lot of gallows humor. I don't want Maye or Daniels landing in that ---- heap or New England, but it would still be hilarious. 

2 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

Reading Cooley's take on Maye and parts of it remind me of McCarthy. What I mean is that there's this sense I get that guys are saying Daniels is a fast processor and that everyone else in the top 4-5 is not (maybe they allow for Williams being a good processor.)  But when I review tape, not just highlights but the all-throws/runs and then consider the metrics, I'm not getting it (not entirely.) 

 

Basically, everyone is inconsistent and will need work either on footwork or on processing to a certain area of the field.  

I would love to know if they're reviewing tape from '19-'22 with Daniels, or Maye's '22 tape. Or are they all just drenched in recency bias, just looking at '23? Needless to say, I think all these people (in media take land) are looking at '23 stuff. It's ridiculous. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

So many think 4 qbs are going in the top 5. I just don’t see it. There are always surprises. A lot of qb needy teams, but that is no different than any other year. I think Giants could move to 3 and grab a qb, but i can definitely see Arizona and the Chargers taking WRs. If nobody leap frogs the giants, they could sit at 6 and still grab a qb. But, they may want to trade up to guarantee they get a guy they like. 

[NewCliche21]

What do people think of Daniels if his running fell off? I know I'm getting way ahead of myself, but the dream is to have a quarterback that gets my first- and second-graders through high school. Even before the ACL, RGIII didn't seem sustainable.

Would Daniels still be as viable in 2034 as Maye would be? I literally know nothing about CFB because my heart can't take more than one team and one sport, so I have no horse in this race.

[The Consigliere]

It seems pretty locked in that the Cardinals are taking Harrison and that the Chargers are either taking Alt at slot, or trading down, likely for an OT (betting markets have gone w/trading down for OL). If the Giants like JJ, they probably stay at slot or switch with Chargers, if they want Maye, I'd imagine they move up to the Pats spot to make certain of it. 

 

Seems pretty clear for now: Williams, Daniels, Maye, Harrison Jr, somebody trading up for JJ. 

 

Only wild card seems like whether Maye is a faller or not and whether the JJ in the top 5-6 stuff is bull---- or not. 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

My fandom has been hanging by a thread for years.  This is the best shot we've had at genuinely escaping NFL poverty in a generation.  If we blow it, I'm not going to tolerate getting kicked in the nuts by this team any more.  Especially if we blow it in a way that I felt was totally predictable and avoidable.  I'm not going to give up on the NFL, but I'll stop watching the Commanders.

Will you last out the weekend or will it be as soon as the #2 pick was made?

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

What do people think of Daniels if his running fell off? I know I'm getting way ahead of myself, but the dream is to have a quarterback that gets my first- and second-graders through high school. Even before the ACL, RGIII didn't seem sustainable.

Would Daniels still be as viable in 2034 as Maye would be? I literally know nothing about CFB because my heart can't take more than one team and one sport, so I have no horse in this race.

Forget 2034. I'm not even sure he'd be as viable in 2028. Mobility/athleticism tends to drop off around age 27 and Daniels will already be 24 in December.

[Panninho]

 

No surprise but still.

[NewCliche21]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Forget 2034. I'm not even sure he'd be as viable in 2028. Mobility/athleticism tends to drop off around age 27 and Daniels will already be 24 in December.

 

I more mean does it seem, and I know it's hard to extrapolate, that he can still be a franchise quarterback without his legs being an every down possibility.

[FrFan]

[rockluc]

5 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

What do people think of Daniels if his running fell off? I know I'm getting way ahead of myself, but the dream is to have a quarterback that gets my first- and second-graders through high school. Even before the ACL, RGIII didn't seem sustainable.

Would Daniels still be as viable in 2034 as Maye would be? I literally know nothing about CFB because my heart can't take more than one team and one sport, so I have no horse in this race.

Maybe as an Alex Smith style guy once his legs go?  His arm isn’t anything special, usually those guys who have super long careers in one place have arm strength to spare as they move into their mid 30’s. JD doesn’t have that IMO. He’d be a guy I’d be really nervous about giving a long term big money second contract to regardless of how the rookie contract plays out.