The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

57 minutes ago, HogsVa7 said:

That's a lazy explanation to comfort your Drake Maye love. He didn't put up great numbers at ASU, but he saw what he has done at LSU and how he progressed each year meanwhile winning the Heisman trophy.

 

So you accuse someone of making a lazy argument and then counter it by literally making no argument for your case. Impressive.

[Warhead36]

20 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Gotta say, nothing in this universe is stupider than tying a top 2 QB selection in supposedly the best QB draft in 20 years to a retread multiple times ---- canned coach. Who the expletive cares what Kliff wants. Take the best long term QB prospect possible. Such process is so mind numbingly stupid it beggars belief. 

Yeah I'm COMPLETELY OUT on this regime if they draft the QB based on what the OC wants.

 

Draft the best player, and make the OC figure out how to get the most out of him. 

[Going Commando]

43 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

2024 NFL draft: Jeff Legwold ranks the top 100 prospects

 

People often underrate QBs on these things, as a cheap out in case the QB fails or falls.  But it's a meaningless hedge, no one in the world actually believes Marvin Harrison is better and more valuable than the top QBs, or that he should be picked in front of them.  And the truth is that superstar QBs are the best and most valuable football players in every level of the sport, regardless of position.  Harrison isn't even close to as good a player as Williams or Maye are.

[illone]

16 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Who the expletive cares what Kliff wants. Take the best long term QB prospect possible. 

This is so correct. Kliffy will be gone in 1-2 years. 
 

DQ might have some input but I doubt Kliff is involved in the draft process one bit. His job is to work with the guy he is given by the evaluators. Nothing more. 
 

 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, illone said:

This is so correct. Kliffy will be gone in 1-2 years. 
 

DQ might have some input but I doubt Kliff is involved in the draft process one bit. His job is to work with the guy he is given by the evaluators. Nothing more. 
 

 

I'm fine with KK having an input. He's the OC and was hired for his expertise with QBs. But we shouldn't make the decision based on who fits what KK wants to do. Make him fit the offense around the QB he has.

 

Like Kevin Costner's character says in Draft Day: "Your job is the coach the team I give you."

[Est.1974]

21 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Who the expletive cares what Kliff wants. Take the best long term QB prospect possible. Such process is so mind numbingly stupid it beggars belief. 

This I agree with, we’ll just take who we think is the best QB prospect.

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm fine with KK having an input. He's the OC and was hired for his expertise with QBs. But we shouldn't make the decision based on who fits what KK wants to do. Make him fit the offense around the QB he has.

 

Like Kevin Costner's character says in Draft Day: "Your job is the coach the team I give you."

 

Yep.

 

Also OCs have ridiculously high turnover.  Almost none tenure beyond two years.  It's absurd to draft a QB for a two year window.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

E. Daniels had a good time on his visit here

Ok, I think I listed to the same stuff you did, and honestly, I don't know that he knows this, I think he just said it.  I'm 100% sure he didn't hear that from the team.  He wasn't there.  If he got ANY information on this, it would have come from tweet-dumb the agent.  

 

The way he said it was almost off-hand, and almost a "hand-wave" type of thing. "Eh, he had a good time." (unsaid - it's not an issue, leave it alone.)

 

He also went HARD on he didn't think it was even worth a conversation about the agent's tweets.  Like, super hard.  He basically told Bram to shut it. Like two or three times.  To this, I think he's right: I don't think the agent's tweets will matter a damn.  But I do think he's missing the point a bit.  Bram brought up the question "did the agent do it because Daniels was upset?" To which Keim slammed the door hard on that again and said something to the effect of "Daniels is a good kid and wouldn't do that. I haven't heard anything to suggest he would react that way."  Which is speculation. 

 

He didn't want to even entertain the possibility anything happened on the 30 visit that would be a problem.  And he kept saying, "I think it's Daniels.  I think it's Daniels."  Mostly unprompted.  At the end of the segment with Bram, Bram asked him directly, and he said, "I think it's Daniels."  (FWIW, I thought it was odd Bram even asked because he had said it at least a dozen times already.) 

 

Also, it flies somewhat in contrast to the Schefter report which stated Daniels didn't have a good visit.  Now, Schefter could be doing the Raiders bidding.  That's possible.  But why?  (unless he's being paid, which is a possibility.)

 

It is lying season, so it's really impossible to know the truth.  

 

I know you're going to write a "war and peace" length, full-throated defense of your client John Keim when I say this, but I think (and others on here have concurred) he's lost a little objectivity when it comes to Daniels.  And I think it's clouding the reporting a tad.  Not a ton, but a tad.  I also don't think there's anything wrong with that.  Everybody has some degree of personal bias. I don't think he's wrong, and I don't think he's reporting anything incorrectly.  And he's being careful.  But still, I think there is a bias.  I think it's obvious.  It's not JUST what he's hearing, it's also what he thinks and what he wants.  Standig, on his mock draft pod, said "That's what I would do" about drafting Daniels.  I had no problem with that.  I have no problem with Keim being a bit biased as well. He's still the best in the business.  (I await your SCATHING retort.)  

 

Related, Bram has NEVER been objective on Daniels.  He said that's the guy he wants.  He's been open about it, and at one point said he thought it was a done deal.  He's backed off that significantly from the "what will they do" perspective to say he thinks it's 50/50. And I think he's hedging (because he is going to call the games next year so he can't exactly trash whoever they pick) and has said some good things about Maye.

However, it's absolutely unmistakable what his personal opinion is.  It's like he has an Angel on one shoulder telling him he needs to be unbiased because of his team radio job, but a Devil on the other saying DANIELS DANIELS DANIELS IT HAS TO BE DANIELS. JUST KEEP TALKING ABOUT HOW GREAT DANIELS IS!!!!!

 

And quite frankly, he's not succeeding really well at playing both sides of that and is currently sounding like a big idiot.  

 

And candidly,  Bram's opinion on QBs is basically trash.  He LOVED him some Taylor Heinicke.  Like, dedicated an entire half hour segment to him after he left to the Falcons and said, and I quote, "I will be a fan for life."  And then kept, throughout the season, saying Atlanta should start him and they would win the division.  Even after he had been benched TWICE.  "Well, if Ridder starts they will lose. But if they played Heinicke, they're going to win."  I thin that came up weekly in his game prediction segments.  

 

He also has a mad fascination with Just Fields, and thinks Pittsburgh will/should pick up the 5th year option.  He has said "NOBODY will convince me he can't be successful in the right offense.  You just have to commit to him and the Bears blew it."  

 

So, my guy Bram, (and I generally like Bram) is having a tough go of it.  I actually stopped listening to his show for about 2-3 weeks because it was useless dribble.  I've listened a couple of times since and it hasn't gotten that much better.  Sadly, he MIGHT be approaching Sheehan territory for me.  Not quite yet.  But he's trending in the wrong direction.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

50 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

People often underrate QBs on these things, as a cheap out in case the QB fails or falls.  But it's a meaningless hedge, no one in the world actually believes Marvin Harrison is better and more valuable than the top QBs, or that he should be picked in front of them.  And the truth is that superstar QBs are the best and most valuable football players in every level of the sport, regardless of position.  Harrison isn't even close to as good a player as Williams or Maye are.

Very true. These lists of prospects "regardless of position" for some reason never have Safeties, off the ball LBs or Interior OL that high (24 is the highest on this particular list). Why is that? If it's regardless of position shouldn't we see players from all kinds of positions crashing the top of the list? How about a K? 

 

The answer, of course, is that they are valuing players based on their positional values, but downgrading QBs to seem basically contrarian. 

Edited April 20 by Rufus T Firefly

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm fine with KK having an input. He's the OC and was hired for his expertise with QBs. But we shouldn't make the decision based on who fits what KK wants to do. Make him fit the offense around the QB he has.

 

Like Kevin Costner's character says in Draft Day: "Your job is the coach the team I give you."

 

Yeah there's a big difference between "your voice will be heard in this process" and "our decision will be based on what you want"

 

At the end of the day it's GMAP's pick to make, likely with input and buy-in from DQ and possible input from KK, but even DQ won't be a decision maker. Which is how it should be with a real team structure and a real GM.

[Renegade7]

I understand picking Daniels because of the potential multi-threat of someone that can pass as well as they throw.

 

Watching a QB get 5-10 yards running after the 3 second clock and no one is open is one of the demoralizing things to watch in sports.

 

You can totally wear out the psyche of a defense, not jus their physical stamina, with that happening repeatedly in a game.

 

I'm still picking Maye, but had a more then one conversation over the past couple days with fans...

 

Chance of potential shouldn't be more important then chance for production, as potential is just future production from am estimated standpoint.

 

I'm tired of picking potential over production with these franchise altering picks.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

 

 

Two additional tweets from the same source along the same lines...

 

 

.

 

.

[CommanderInTheRye]

38 minutes ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

Jayden Daniels agent being a plank, doesn’t make Jayden Daniels a plank

 

 

True, but if I were Jayden and I disagreed with what was done I would make my position crystal clear so there's not even a scintilla of doubt as to where I stand.

 

This could be done without openly chastising your representation by many methods.

 

The simplest one would have been to just issue a casual tweet Thursday morning, saying that he enjoyed his visit (whether true or not), thanking the Commanders for their hospitality, and stating plainly that he's excited to play football for whoever drafts him.

 

Issue over, no kerfuffle, the media cycle for this story ends, and the talking tv heads go on to the next item on their agenda.

 

 

Edited April 20 by CommanderInTheRye

[ExoDus84]

1 hour ago, Hooper said:

He was on pace to be bald at 30 and now has the thickest locks I've ever seen at 45.

 

Sign me up for Tb12!

 

The TB12 method includes finasteride and FUE hair transplantation.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

True, but if I were Jayden and I disagreed with what was done I would make my position crystal clear so there's not even a scintilla of doubt as to where I stand.

 

This could be done without openly chastising your representation by many methods.

 

The simplest one would have been to just issue a casual tweet Thursday morning, saying that he enjoyed his visit (whether true or not), thanking the Commanders for their hospitality, and stating plainly that he's excited to play football for whoever drafts him.

 

Issue over, no kerfuffle, the media cycle fir this story ends, and yhe talking heads go on to the next item on their agenda.

 

 

The simplest would just be to have your agent contact the Commanders and clear it up. 

[Redskins 2021]

 The Daniels thing is not really a big deal if they pick him he will play here.

[Fred Jones]

35 minutes ago, illone said:

DQ might have some input but I doubt Kliff is involved in the draft process one bit. His job is to work with the guy he is given by the evaluators. Nothing more. 
 

 

What DQ said to his staff is that he wants them to produce the best information possible to give to GMAP so AP can make the decision.  Kliff is just one of many providing input to Peters and Newmark - Nothing more or less.

 

But, as you said, he is not making any decision on any player.

[CommanderInTheRye]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

The simplest would just be to have your agent contact the Commanders and clear it up. 

 

 

That does nothing for public perception.

 

Once his agent liked and later emojied tweets questioning the Commanders interview process it had entered tge public domain and the news cycle. A public response was required.

 

The time for his agent to speak with the Cimmanders was before he reacted on Twitter.

 

Clearing it up with the Commanders alone doesn’t end the story. A public tweet along with private conversations on Thursday would have killed it.

[Est.1974]

31 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I understand picking Daniels because of the potential multi-threat of someone that can pass as well as they throw.

 

Watching a QB get 5-10 yards running after the 3 second clock and no one is open is one of the demoralizing things to watch in sports.

 

You can totally wear out the psyche of a defense, not jus their physical stamina, with that happening repeatedly in a game.

 

I'm still picking Maye, but had a more then one conversation over the past couple days with fans...

 

Chance of potential shouldn't be more important then chance for production, as potential is just future production from am estimated standpoint.

 

I'm tired of picking potential over production with these franchise altering picks.

I’d say that explanation would suggest you should take Daniels over Maye 

[mistertim]

28 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I understand picking Daniels because of the potential multi-threat of someone that can pass as well as they throw.

 

Watching a QB get 5-10 yards running after the 3 second clock and no one is open is one of the demoralizing things to watch in sports.

 

You can totally wear out the psyche of a defense, not jus their physical stamina, with that happening repeatedly in a game.

 

I'm still picking Maye, but had a more then one conversation over the past couple days with fans...

 

Chance of potential shouldn't be more important then chance for production, as potential is just future production from am estimated standpoint.

 

I'm tired of picking potential over production with these franchise altering picks.

 

Yeah that can definitely be demoralizing. But we know for a fact that good teams can game plan to try and take away the legs of QBs who run a lot. A game plan for Daniels could be a combination of blitzing and keeping a spy on him. We know when pressured he doesn't throw often. So make him uncomfortable, get him off his spot, keep a spy on him so he can't pick up a bunch of yards, and then try to take away short stuff and deep boundary throws. Force him to beat you with throws he's not all that comfortable with. Mostly tight window 2nd level middle of the field.

 

I honestly don't think he'll be all that difficult to game plan for, especially early in his career. 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

That does nothing for public perception.

 

Once his agent liked and later emojied tweets questioning the Commanders interview process it had entered tge public domain and the news cycle. A public response was required.

 

The time for his agent to speak with the Cimmanders was before he reacted on Twitter.

 

Clearing it up with the Commanders alone doesn’t end the story. A public tweet along with private conversations on Thursday would have killed it.

 

It's a double edge sword.  

 

One of the tenets in my job is crisis management including dealing with a bad story like this -- often the best response is to do nothing.  Because the response adds legs to the story. It keeps it alive.  And someone can always twist the response.

 

Eventually the story will likely get replaced with another story from somewhere else about somethng else.  Especially in the week leading to the draft -- that's gossip city week.

 

48 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Ok, I think I listed to the same stuff you did, and honestly, I don't know that he knows this, I think he just said it.  I'm 100% sure he didn't hear that from the team.  He wasn't there.  If he got ANY information on this, it would have come from tweet-dumb the agent.  

 

The way he said it was almost off-hand, and almost a "hand-wave" type of thing. "Eh, he had a good time." (unsaid - it's not an issue, leave it alone.)

 

 

Why would I want to hear from the team if he had a good time?  Be like being dragged to a family event am not into -- and someone asks my family, not me, if I had a good time.

 

Keim has referenced several times he knows some people super close with Daniels.   I'd want to hear it from them.  Not a team source.  Not that I care though.  To me that was the smallest point among the one i mentioned he talked about.

Edited April 20 by Skinsinparadise

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’d say that explanation would suggest you should take Daniels over Maye 

 

I can't...I just feel like I've seen this movie before.  I currently believe its safer picking Maye.

Edited April 20 by Renegade7

[Hooper]

24 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

The TB12 method includes finasteride and FUE hair transplantation.

No doubt. Mix that propeica right in your avocado ice cream. 

[bh32]

I heard Jay Gruden in one of his and Colts film breakdowns say that JD has to look to the sideline to get his line protections,while Maye call his own...How are you a 5 year starter and you can't call your own protections..lol

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah that can definitely be demoralizing. But we know for a fact that good teams can game plan to try and take away the legs of QBs who run a lot. A game plan for Daniels could be a combination of blitzing and keeping a spy on him. We know when pressured he doesn't throw often. So make him uncomfortable, get him off his spot, keep a spy on him so he can't pick up a bunch of yards, and then try to take away short stuff and deep boundary throws. Force him to beat you with throws he's not all that comfortable with. Mostly tight window 2nd level middle of the field.

 

I honestly don't think he'll be all that difficult to game plan for, especially early in his career. 

 

How many times we made it that simple in game day threads and not pull it off?

 

Big reason Ravens get high seeds and nothing for them is because most defense can't fully contain Lamar like you're saying here.

 

At some point they run into a defense in the playoffs that can.

 

These running QBs are an illusion to being successful, we are close to all QBs being dangerously mobile in some way, and defenses are adjusting..see how quick defenses adjusted to read option.  It helps but this is still a passing league.

Edited April 20 by Renegade7