The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[DogofWar1]

 

[WashingtonRedWolves]

Also isn’t the ACL/whatever area of injury ultimately rendered weaker after an injury, even after full repair? I.e. much more likely to get re-injured as opposed to an area thats never had a major injury occur. Another reason i wouldn’t want penix.

[Rex Tomb]

2 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

For those who summarily dismiss, even the idea of considering offers to trade back in the draft, here’s a pretty interesting graphic on the last 10 qbs that teams that have traded up to take….

 

 

 

gg

 

 

Even giving Bryce Young the benefit of the doubt going into his second year and admitting that Goff is a solid qb, this isn’t exactly a list of future hall of famers.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I mean...ok, sure it's non-zero. But so is a black hole passing by the earth and destroying it in the middle of the draft.

 

At the end of the day, the final decision is for GMAP to make. He'll take everyone else's opinion into account, but he's ultimately in charge of the draft. So I think it's almost impossible that there would truly be a "deadlock" unless GMAP himself is truly 100% torn between Maye and Daniels, which I think is extremely unlikely.

 

 

You answered "a" question, but not "the" question I proposed.

 

To reiterate, my question is based on a hypothetical scenario, one which I freely admit is unlikely.

 

I wasn't asking you to give me a hypothetical demonstrating the improbability of my scenario, that's understood. (By the way any hypothetical incorporating cosmological anomalies gets an A+ for shear creativity in my book.) 😊

 

What I was, and am again now asking you, is whether or not you would concede that if that extremely improbable hypothetical did indeed occurr, would trading down then become an option worth considering?

[Conn]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yeah, agree. I think even Jay Gruden (who McCloughan used to praise as an evaluator) admitted he typically only watches the highlights of a given prospect. And justified it by saying he only cares about what a prospect can do. Not surprisingly, he prefers Daniels as well. 
 

I usually take coaches’ opinions on prospects with a grain of salt - unless they’re foolishly granted the ultimate decision-making authority during the draft… as we did with Rivera. 

This is also famously how Mike Shanahan scouted his offensive players. Was pretty boom/bust obviously 

 

And then (until he got fired for lack of defense) he totally nailed that Cutler/Marshall/Sheffler period of drafting and got even higher on his own ability to find young offensive talent. 

Edited April 7 by Conn

[SkinsFTW]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

This is also famously how Mike Shanahan scouted his offensive players. Was pretty boom/bust obviously 

 

He probably had his YouTube settings at 2x when he "scouted" John Beck.

"Look at that arm strength!"

"Look at them legs move!"

[redskinss]

Got a cold this weekend so I spent the last 5 hours watching every throw and run from the big 3 from last year.

 

Not much has changed as far as my opinion goes, the good people of extremeskins have done a pretty darn good job summarizing all of their strengths and weaknesses. 

 

A couple observations that maybe haven't been hammered completely to death.

 

Drake maye needs to work on his ball placement on swings and screens.

Far too often it was low, high or worse yet behind the receiver causing him to have to check up and or twist his shoulders around and those plays have to be bang bang if they're not the defense has time to rally and the play is dead before it started or at best its a minimal gain.

 

The perception of daniels as a runner is that he's straight line fast and not elusive.

He's no Barry sanders shaking people out of their cleats on stop and goes but I believe that this perception takes something away from his vision and silky smooth ability to change direction and turn defenders around when he's out in the open.

That Florida game, my God was that a clinic on how to move north and south at a high rate of speed without getting caught.

He's both fast and incredibly gifted at changing directions while running full speed.

Also the pressure to sack ratio may be a bit overblown, yes he had a good offensive line but he only took 22 sacks last year versus Mayes 29 and Williams 33 so all in all he's not taking a ton of sacks.

 

Williams is so Natural throwing the ball, he makes it look effortless, he is kind of a live by the sword die by the sword quarterback sort of like maye but his ability to extend plays is second to none.

 

Lastly, the difference in receiver separation and yards after the catch from Maye/Williams to Daniels was a gap that is glaring to say the least.

Williams and maye had no choice but to scramble around waiting for someone to get open and when they did finally throw it, it was to someone usually well covered.

Daniels had so many wide open throws it's hard to tell what he's capable of with lesser talent around him, and the way nabers and Thomas can move after the catch some of those big stats he put up could be a little deceiving. 

 

All 3 are great prospects, if given the choice between any of them I'm not sure which way I'd go, they all have some serious positives and some serious red flags but in the event of a tie I'd probably go with the tall one with the body to sustain a long career.

 

No matter what happens we're getting someone who will be exciting to watch, if it's daniels he'll be a home run threat every time he runs the ball, if it's Williams we'll get dizzy watching him dance around in the backfield and in awe after he pulls another rabbit out of his hat and if it's maye we'll get to see a guy who can launch missles deep downfield on the run across his body.

 

 

[Conn]

55 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

He probably had his YouTube settings at 2x when he "scouted" John Beck.

"Look at that arm strength!"

"Look at them legs move!"

I have had the (lightly held) theory for a long time that Shanahan was actually stealth tanking for Luck that year and that’s why he sold Beck so hard as an answer to compete with Grossman. Everyone knew about Luck and “suck for luck” was huge. We nearly did it. 

[wit33]

 

 

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yeah, agree. I think even Jay Gruden (who McCloughan used to praise as an evaluator) admitted he typically only watches the highlights of a given prospect. And justified it by saying he only cares about what a prospect can do. Not surprisingly, he prefers Daniels as well. 
 

I usually take coaches’ opinions on prospects with a grain of salt - unless they’re foolishly granted the ultimate decision-making authority during the draft… as we did with Rivera. 

 

Coaches typically aren't fans of using "potential" as a substitute for "project" and understanding that miracles can happen, but the odds of players correcting their natural inclinations and body mechanics is a tough, uphill battle that's unique to each individual and their personal journey toward improvement. 

 

Most players don't refine their mechanics, yet many are genuinely hardworking and nice young individuals. 
 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

I know some have disagreed with this take, but I still think it's valid to say that most coaches are also naturally likely to tend more towards shorter term thinking vs a GM. Which is natural. The more wins they can manage to rack up fast the more likely they are to keep their job.

[HTTRDynasty]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I know some have disagreed with this take, but I still think it's valid to say that most coaches are also naturally likely to tend more towards shorter term thinking vs a GM. Which is natural. The more wins they can manage to rack up fast the more likely they are to keep their job.

 

Well yeah, it would be weird not to agree with this take.

 

17 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Coaches typically aren't fans of using "potential" as a substitute for "project" and understanding that miracles can happen, but the odds of players correcting their natural inclinations and body mechanics is a tough, uphill battle that's unique to each individual and their personal journey toward improvement. 

 

Most players don't refine their mechanics, yet many are genuinely hardworking and nice young individuals. 

 

I agree.

 

 

We've seen previous versions of the rumor below, but this is coming from an NFCE beat guy.

 

And the quarterback who might tempt them to do that is North Carolina's Drake Maye.

 

He is the prospect who could most entice the Giants to make a blockbuster move up from No. 6, according to multiple NFL sources familiar with the Giants' thinking. With USC's Caleb Williams almost certain to be taken by the Chicago Bears at No. 1, the 21-year-old Maye is believed by many around the NFL to be the next quarterback on the Giants' list.

 

In fact, one league source said he believes that if Maye somehow gets past the Washington Commanders at No. 2 — which is far from a certainty — the Giants would consider making an aggressive offer to the New England Patriots to move up from No. 6 to No. 3 to draft him. It's not clear if New York would be willing to do the same for LSU's Jayden Daniels or Michigan's J.J. McCarthy, the other two top quarterbacks likely to be available at that spot.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/2024-nfl-draft-would-giants-trade-up-for-a-qb-maybe-if-that-qb-is-drake-maye

[Anselmheifer]

I’m going to throw a brick if we pass on Maye and he winds up with the Giants. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yeah, agree. I think even Jay Gruden (who McCloughan used to praise as an evaluator) admitted he typically only watches the highlights of a given prospect. And justified it by saying he only cares about what a prospect can do. Not surprisingly, he prefers Daniels as well. 
 

I usually take coaches’ opinions on prospects with a grain of salt - unless they’re foolishly granted the ultimate decision-making authority during the draft… as we did with Rivera. 

 

Not sure about that.  I recall him for example talk about watching full games of North Carolina, he was watching another player but Holcomb continued to pop when doing so -- so then he focused just on watching Holcomb.

 

I find for myself its really hard to judge players by highlights alone because most look like rock stars in that context.  

Edited April 7 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

21 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I’m going to throw a brick if we pass on Maye and he winds up with the Giants. 

It would put GMAP and Quinn under an extremely bright spotlight.
 

Won’t call it a hot seat, but man, they would need to pray Maye busts and Daniels balls out. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Why would Arizona trade up to 2 for Marvin Harrison Jr? 

 

Especially with growing talk that Nabers and Odunze are neck and neck in the eyes of some teams with Harrison.  If you want a Wr in the top 10 no need at all to trade up let alone to #2.

[HTTRDynasty]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not sure about that.  I recall him for example talk about watching full games of North Carolina, he was watching another player but Holcomb continued to pop when doing so -- so then he focused just on watching Holcomb.

 

I find for myself its really hard to judge players by highlights alone because most look like rock stars in that context.  

 

Maybe, I just recall hearing it from an old interview.  Not gonna go down the rabbit hole to look for it so I'll concede the point.

[mistertim]

37 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Well yeah, it would be weird not to agree with this take.

 

 

I agree.

 

 

We've seen previous versions of the rumor below, but this is coming from an NFCE beat guy.

 

And the quarterback who might tempt them to do that is North Carolina's Drake Maye.

 

He is the prospect who could most entice the Giants to make a blockbuster move up from No. 6, according to multiple NFL sources familiar with the Giants' thinking. With USC's Caleb Williams almost certain to be taken by the Chicago Bears at No. 1, the 21-year-old Maye is believed by many around the NFL to be the next quarterback on the Giants' list.

 

In fact, one league source said he believes that if Maye somehow gets past the Washington Commanders at No. 2 — which is far from a certainty — the Giants would consider making an aggressive offer to the New England Patriots to move up from No. 6 to No. 3 to draft him. It's not clear if New York would be willing to do the same for LSU's Jayden Daniels or Michigan's J.J. McCarthy, the other two top quarterbacks likely to be available at that spot.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/2024-nfl-draft-would-giants-trade-up-for-a-qb-maybe-if-that-qb-is-drake-maye

 

I'd be pretty shocked if the Pats trade down with Maye or Daniels there, unless they really have their eyes on only one and really aren't interested in the other. Even if they like McCarthy there's no way for them to know that he'll still be available at 6. Does anyone really think they're going to go into this season with nobody but Brissett at QB? Can you imagine how absolutely insane we'd go if that happened here?

 

Yeah, I think the Giants would have to offer them something truly insane to get them to even think about it.

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'd be pretty shocked if the Pats trade down with Maye or Daniels there, unless they really have their eyes on only one and really aren't interested in the other. Even if they like McCarthy there's no way for them to know that he'll still be available at 6. Does anyone really think they're going to go into this season with nobody but Brissett at QB? Can you imagine how absolutely insane we'd go if that happened here?

 

Yeah, I think the Giants would have to offer them something truly insane to get them to even think about it.

 

I agree.  Though I do think they'd be more likely to trade down than us given they have one less high impact alternative option on their decision tree than we do.

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I’m going to throw a brick if we pass on Maye and he winds up with the Giants. 

everything I've heard says that if we pass on Maye the Pats take him

 

That's the thing about the prospects.  99% is Caleb going to Chicago with 1% of him somehow going to us, so no one really talks about getting him.  That takes us to Maye and Daniels.  It seems like Maye is liked by us, the Pats, he Vikings and now the Giants.  Daniels is really only strongly linked to us.

 

So it kind feels like Daniels is being overhyped

[bird_1972]

18 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

So it kind feels like Daniels is being overhyped

 

I wonder why this is?

[MrJL]

5 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

I wonder why this is?

the trick for that is if we're not trading out of 2 and we know we're taking Maye, then what good does Daniels being picked higher do us?  Someone gonna trade the Bears to jump us to take Daniels? and drop Caleb to us?

[Skinsinparadise]

It's going below the radar some because the focus for us is on us.

 

But its tough to miss that its not just this team depending on the reporter saying this team wants Maye or Daniels or to a lesser extent McCarthy.  Its been the same dynamic with the Pats.  Same with the Vikings and Giants as trade up options.

 

The reporter below has covered the Giants forever so is no clown.  But my point is its not just this team with competiting reports of player interest.

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by Skinsinparadise

[Llevron]

Do you y’all think we will ever get a real answer from the horses mouth (GMAP) about why he picked whoever it is he picks? No matter who it is I expect that we will never have that level of access….and we will have to trust him. 
 

And I don’t think any of of really trust him. Maybe I’m projecting though. 

[ST_DaGoat21]

*deleted

Edited April 7 by ST_DaGoat21
Don’t want to piss anyone off.