The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Jumbo]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

At this point I'm mostly interested in @Conn's statement about being funny making it all ok. Does that include the ability to fart on command or is that a bit too puerile?

 

Your gaseous capabilities (and I'm not referring to your posting) are legendary and definitely count towards your ES humor ceiling, which is an important stat here.

 

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

 

There is no way for me to tell you this, I simply pointed out that if you’re not willing to talk specifics when comparing these guys, it’s pointless. What do you see and why? It’s the only way to add value to a message board community, if you’re going to run around being opinionated. Unless you’re funny, then you get a pass. Are you funny? 

 

 

None of this matters, you’re throwing a smoke grenade. I’m simply asking what you see from their skill-sets, specifically, that informs your opinion—and why. And then if there’s still disagreement, that’s fine.

 

 

What you’re saying is the definition of “elementary stuff”, because you can’t describe why you feel the way you do. 

 

If you so easily label yourself as someone who is unable to take in new information and give thought to changing your mind, that’s about the loudest comment you could make on the topic. It’s extremely revealing that you see things involving your own thoughts this way. It invalidates your ability to be objective and makes talking to you essentially useless. Why post on a message board then, if there’s no chance of an exchange of ideas?

I'll come back later to respond. 

[Conn]

5 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

I'll come back later to respond. 

No need to make threats, sir! 

[Rolo Tomasie]

Other traits I am noticing about these guys - 

• Maye exhibits pretty good ball security on the move or sliding around the pocket. He often has two firm hands on the ball and I saw him take several hits that would have jarred the ball loose if he didn't. He fumbled a few times this year, notably against Payton Wilson, but it took a lot to knock the ball loose. He's better than Caleb in that regard and I bet his hands measure fairly large. He's not going to be a Daniel Jones fumble machine.
• Another mechanical issue - he can sometimes get the ball's nose down a little on shorter throws and he loses accuracy down and to the sides, especially when you throw as hard as he does because aerodynamics push the ball to sink.
• He wore no mouth guard this season even though all plays were called from the sidelines to everyone and his snap call was a clap. Contrast that to Daniels whose mouth guard was usually hanging out of his mouth pre-snap. Not sure that means anything but just an observation.
• Daniels' release is so quick and effortless. Love it.
• Maye is not good at the decision part of the Read Option. I don't think that's a strong part of his game in the pros. He often made the wrong decision, and hence UNC didn't run it that much.
• Maye's pre-snap decision making is really, really good. His progressions after the snap need to catch up to it. He seemed to be often pre-determining where the throw would go, but he was usually right. Underrated part of his game. Maybe that success is why he occasionally stuck with his primary target too long.

Edited February 23 by Rolo Tomasie

[Dah-Dee]

2 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

He wore no mouth guard this season even though all plays were called from the sidelines to everyone and his snap call was a clap. Contrast that to Daniels whose mouth guard was usually hanging out of his mouth pre-snap. Not sure that means anything but just an observation.

 

This bugged me about both Williams and Daniels, who both do that a lot (I'm sure others do it too, but not watching film on others...), I just don't get playing with it hanging out of your mouth like a twizzler or something. Either use it or don't, it's not jewelry guys. Ugh.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I am really surprised there is so much fan talk about wanting to take Jaden Daniels.  If he is the pick I will support it because I believe in the new regime. But he just sounds so risky to me.  This is all based off of one year with spectacular weapons.  I know I know Joe Burrow, but Burrow is not this thin and we don't have tape of him trying to blow through an entire front 7 and getting smashed.  

[illone]

How much better is Drake Maye compared to Sam Howell?
 

The college numbers are fairly comparable…

[Dah-Dee]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I am really surprised there is so much fan talk about wanting to take Jaden Daniels.  If he is the pick I will support it because I believe in the new regime. But he just sounds so risky to me.  This is all based off of one year with spectacular weapons.  I know I know Joe Burrow, but Burrow is not this thin and we don't have tape of him trying to blow through an entire front 7 and getting smashed.  

 

I just can't get past Daniels' build, really worried he's gonna have a short career due to repeated hits - he doesn't look to have a frame that can support adding much more weight, feels like LSU might have maxed out whatever muscle he can add without adversely affecting athleticism.  Seems to have narrow shoulders, long neck, feels like bad injury waiting to happen. /end RG3 PTSD.

 

That said, I do think the 'one-year wonder' slant is off base. Daniels' 2022 compares favorably to Maye's 2023, and Daniels' 2019 (freshman) and 2022 seasons were better than Burrow's 2018. Daniels had two pretty good years and then closed out with a monster 2023. Looks like development to me, not one-hit wonder status.

 

I think Daniels will be good, the question is, for how long? With Maye, my question is, will he be good? Because if he is, feels like he'll be good for a looooong time. If we're going to buy a QB lottery ticket, I want the chance to win a 15-20 year Pro Bowler, not a 2-3 year All Pro. I do hope I'm wrong about Daniels, because I think his character and positive attitude would be really good for the NFL.

 

[illone]

11 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I am really surprised there is so much fan talk about wanting to take Jaden Daniels.  If he is the pick I will support it because I believe in the new regime. But he just sounds so risky to me.  This is all based off of one year with spectacular weapons.  I know I know Joe Burrow, but Burrow is not this thin and we don't have tape of him trying to blow through an entire front 7 and getting smashed.  

 

Burrow would probably be ranked ahead of Daniels on 32 draft boards, so i get what you’re saying. Very different play styles and body types... but Burrow was just an obvious top pick. I could argue that Joey is/was a better prospect than Caleb, but it’s pointless. 

 

 

[mh86]

15 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I am really surprised there is so much fan talk about wanting to take Jaden Daniels.  If he is the pick I will support it because I believe in the new regime. But he just sounds so risky to me.  This is all based off of one year with spectacular weapons.  I know I know Joe Burrow, but Burrow is not this thin and we don't have tape of him trying to blow through an entire front 7 and getting smashed.  

Just to touch on the burrow thing - that is probably not the best thing to hang your hat on. That’s like saying, well Tom Brady was selected in the 6th round, so therefore all QBs in the 6th round will be the goat. The one year of success is a good starting point to evaluate though. What did he do differently to get to that point. What about his game improved and why. @ThatNFLChickhas cited sources saying he basically upped his study habits and work ethics. That’s big time for a QB to me. I think the mental aspect can beat out the physical in most cases. 

[FootballZombie]

No such thing as a sure thing.

Taking any of them still has risk.

U can't be afraid of life.

 

[NOLA2DC]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

 

There is no way for me to tell you this, I simply pointed out that if you’re not willing to talk specifics when comparing these guys, it’s pointless. What do you see and why? It’s the only way to add value to a message board community, if you’re going to run around being opinionated. Unless you’re funny, then you get a pass. Are you funny? 

 

 

None of this matters, you’re throwing a smoke grenade. I’m simply asking what you see from their skill-sets, specifically, that informs your opinion—and why. And then if there’s still disagreement, that’s fine.

 

 

What you’re saying is the definition of “elementary stuff”, because you can’t describe why you feel the way you do. 

 

If you so easily label yourself as someone who is unable to take in new information and give thought to changing your mind, that’s about the loudest comment you could make on the topic. It’s extremely revealing that you see things involving your own thoughts this way. It invalidates your ability to be objective and makes talking to you essentially useless. Why post on a message board then, if there’s no chance of an exchange of ideas?

You’re a funny person because you assume because I refuse to engage in a pointless exercise of opinion, I am useless. The board seems polarized, with most people favoring Maye, and I don’t think my comments will change that.

First, I make an assumption that this is a fan forum, which means the bulk of the positions are made by non-professionals. Fan=fanatic. Have you heard that one before?

Your request for some type of objective measure is like searching for an international constitution, it simply does not exist. All of us are pulling from the same games and highlight vids. I’ve seen Daniels do everything I need to see an NFL QB need to do.  

He may not be in the pocket as much as you want but I’ve seen him stand tall and go through his progressions.

I wish he was 10-5 pounds bigger, but I’ve acknowledged that already.

He may not have the strongest arm, but I’ve seen him make all the throws an NFL QB needs to make.

He’s shined and made plays on a bigger stage than Maye, but I’ve acknowledged that is not a predictor of NFL success.

I am not confused, and I do not expect someone to be swayed after numerous pages and vids on both guys.  The idea that you think you’ll point to a game or stat and change my mind is me not being realistic. I don’t do this for a living(and I assume you don’t either), but I’ve seen several mocks with Jayden going #2 as well as Drake.  The bulk of the board seems to favor Drake, which is cool. I won’t try to convince people who’ve made up their minds. As long as we get the best guy, that’s all that matters.

[wit33]

Feeling perplexed; while following this thread, there appears to be similar, if not slightly more, support for Maye compared to Daniel's, yet the tone from some suggests otherwise.
 

The seasoned individuals here seem to lean towards Maye. My assumption is that supporters for Daniels are 20 years younger or so than those for Maye lol 😂

 

For scorekeeping purposes, I qualify as an old head these days. lol

Edited February 23 by wit33

[illone]

Interesting article about “bold moves”

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/39539764/2024-nfl-offseason-afc-nfc-bold-moves-free-agency-draft

 

 

The Commanders need a quarterback. There are a couple of top quarterback prospects in this draft class. Therefore, the obvious move is for the Commanders to use the No. 2 pick on a quarterback. However, that's not the bold move. The bold move would be to trade down and accumulate more picks they can use to rebuild their whole roster.

Let's start with the easy trade down: one spot to No. 3 with the Patriots. We all want to believe that we can properly rank the best quarterback prospects, but we certainly learned from the 2023 season that the higher-rated quarterback going into the draft doesn't necessarily turn into the better quarterback in the NFL. So, if New England loves Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels, trade the Patriots the No. 2 pick, get a couple of lower-round picks and just use the No. 3 pick on whichever quarterback the Pats don't want.

Or, go bolder and trade down even further. There are several teams that need quarterbacks this year. Call up Denver, Atlanta or Pittsburgh. See what's the biggest package the Commanders can get for that No. 2 selection, with multiple picks both this year and next year to fill multiple holes. Washington can then use a lower pick that it gets back in trade and take a young quarterback who might not be the highest of the top prospects but could still compete with Sam Howell for the 2024 starting job.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

34 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

He may not have the strongest arm, but I’ve seen him make all the throws an NFL QB needs to make.

Have you though?  What’s missing for me is stuffing it in tight windows, which is one of the most important aspects of being a legit QB in the NFL.

[mh86]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Have you though?  What’s missing for me is stuffing it in tight windows, which is one of the most important aspects of being a legit QB in the NFL.

[ThatNFLChick]

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23 by ThatNFLChick

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I am really surprised there is so much fan talk about wanting to take Jaden Daniels.  If he is the pick I will support it because I believe in the new regime. But he just sounds so risky to me.  This is all based off of one year with spectacular weapons.  I know I know Joe Burrow, but Burrow is not this thin and we don't have tape of him trying to blow through an entire front 7 and getting smashed.  

 

Live shot of @Darrell Green Fan after making this comment.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

This bolded part has been said many times and is so weird to me. Maye has a sky high ceiling. He's big, very athletic, fast for his size, can run well, has a huge arm, can throw off platform well, can create plays out of nothing, has shown that he can make any throw, including tight window and anticipation, even with a pretty poor supporting cast.

 

The only thing Daniels has over him is running a likely 4.4 vs a likely 4.6

It's a good question. I think it's basically "he can be Lamar" that is the "ceiling" we hear of. With that, I suppose, is the idea that a running QB like that can elevate a team single-handedly beyond what a good passer can. Which is true, if we're talking about lifting a bad team to the middle of the pack, or slightly higher.

 

But while I don't think he should be considered a potential Lamar 2.0, I guess we're also supposed to ignore that Lamar himself is 2-4 in his playoff career. And he has had enough injury problems that he's missed two playoff runs and been knocked out of a playoff game in another year, out of 6 seasons. 

 

So I guess his ceiling is basically "Lamar minus all the negative of Lamar." Which, you know, is quite a ceiling. 

[ThatNFLChick]

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It's a good question. I think it's basically "he can be Lamar" that is the "ceiling" we hear of. With that, I suppose, is the idea that a running QB like that can elevate a team single-handedly beyond what a good passer can. Which is true, if we're talking about lifting a bad team to the middle of the pack, or slightly higher.

 

But while I don't think he should be considered a potential Lamar 2.0, I guess we're also supposed to ignore that Lamar himself is 2-4 in his playoff career. And he has had enough injury problems that he's missed two playoff runs and been knocked out of a playoff game in another year, out of 6 seasons. 

 

So I guess his ceiling is basically "Lamar minus all the negative of Lamar." Which, you know, is quite a ceiling. 

 

Ehhh, I have never agreed with the Lamar comparisons.

 

But also Lamar, Herbert and Allen's playoff careers are nothing to write home about. 

[FootballZombie]

7 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

So I guess his ceiling is basically "Lamar minus all the negative of Lamar." Which, you know, is quite a ceiling. 

 

I don't think that is quite his idealized trajectory that people envision.

Lamar has developed into a decent passer and incredible runner.

 

The "ceiling" for JD is not just a decent passer, but you'd hope he'd have most of Lamar's impact as a runner. 

 

[Dah-Dee]

I thought this headline from a Chicago reporter was funny, but it also made me cry a little. 

 

Jayden Daniels Scouting Report: If RGIII Could Read Defenses

 

 

And here's a Drake Maye comp (from Jeremiah on NFL.com last summer) that did not make me cry at all, I'd run to the podium if we're getting Carson Palmer 2.0.

 

Scouting Drake Maye: North Carolina quarterback similar to Carson Palmer

Edited February 24 by Dah-Dee

[ThatNFLChick]

2 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

I thought this headline from a Chicago reporter was funny, but it also made me cry a little. 

 

Jayden Daniels Scouting Report: If RGIII Could Read Defenses

 

😂😂😂

 

Didn't I say RG3 had a powerful arm and was fast but also had a significant  injury history, came from a gimmick offense and couldn't read a defense to save his life? I rooted for him because I'll root for whoever is on his team but Luck by a wide margin >>>>>>

[mistertim]

47 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I don't think that is quite his idealized trajectory that people envision.

Lamar has developed into a decent passer and incredible runner.

 

The "ceiling" for JD is not just a decent passer, but you'd hope he'd have most of Lamar's impact as a runner. 

 

 

I think he meant more along the lines of not choking in the postseason.

[ThatNFLChick]