Going Commando Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 hours ago, zCommander said: Like this one? I don't understand what point you are trying to make, or how you feel that it relates tonyhe discussion about the play Daniels made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 35 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said: Apologies if it's been said, but has any QB of note opted out of the combine drills? No but we expect that most of them will. Last year Bryce Young only got measured. He didn't run or throw. CJ Stroud did not run either but he did throw. Anthony Richardson did everything. I don't expect Caleb Williams to do anything but get measured Jayden Daniels might throw but I doubt he runs Drake Maye might throw and run? Not sure. We typically don't know what anyone is going to do until the day of the combine or juat before it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 9 minutes ago, FootballZombie said: He has been on this tilt for years. (2017) https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/05/kurt-warner-says-young-qbs-arent-taught-how-to-play-the-game-which-is-a-dumb-thing-to-say Kurt- “I do see that. I blame less the player and more the coaches. I believe the systems have become more simplified from the standpoint where it’s simply a numbers game or my guy is better than your guy. Or you have the zone read part of it.” 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 College coaches are obligated to do what they have to do to win, so I don't blame them either. It just is what it is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA2DC Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 11 hours ago, mistertim said: It absolutely is luck with some of the insane hits he's taken and the way he runs. He should probably have had about 5 concussions by now with the way his body flops around when hit. Thank god he hasn't, but with his skinny frame and the size and speed of NFL players, along with how his body reacts to hits, I think it's just a matter of time. There are only so many times you can crash a car before your luck runs out. Or you can stop driving so recklessly. All of these guys have something they will need to work in the pros. Yes, I do understand the size argument for the NFL. It was mentioned with the height of both Bryce and Kyler coming out. Kyler has been injured multiple times, so I am not saying it's not a valid position. Most dual-threat guys, regardless of size, learn to slide or get down in the NFL, and I do not think Jayden will be any different. He may have the highest ceiling outside of Williams, but I understand the front office may view Maye as a safer pick. I'm cool with that, but I think some skinny commentary for a guy who has played these many games against top completion demonstrates it's more than luck. Edited February 23 by NOLA2DC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 18 minutes ago, UK Skins said: Martin that's why I just can't watch College Football. Keep trying and keep giving up. I do enjoy watching College football - but it’s almost a totally different game to the NFL 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, MartinC said: I do enjoy watching College football - but it’s almost a totally different game to the NFL It's like playing Madden on Easy. Practically no defense and gimmicky offenses. Hard to take for me except in small doses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 18 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said: This is again why I do not buy into the "Caleb is generational" talk at all. He is not a better prospect than Burrow or Stroud (better than Lawrence though). His ceiling is high IF he can put it all together but if he can't? The floor is low. He had several plays just like this in the same game: So Kurt thinks that play resulting in a stupid fumble is disqualifying of Caleb being QB1, while simultaneously thinking Jayden is QB1. I'd like Kurt to explain how Caleb was supposed to step up into that collapsing pocket. And why isn't the stupid fumble by Jayden in the Ole Miss game disqualifying? On that play, Jayden did have a clean pocket, completed a full drop, climbed his ladder, and had an open Brian Thomas on an easy shallow crosser the whole way. But he passed him over because there was a linebacker in the area and his instinct is always to run first when he has to make moving or tight window throws. He also tried to cut his run back up field after first contact, which would be dumb even for a QB that has NFL caliber strength. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, UK Skins said: It's like playing Madden on Easy. Practically no defense and gimmicky offenses. Hard to take for me except in small doses. Lots of games are unwatchable mismatches. But there are games between good teams that are a great watch and the playoffs are gold. Bowl games need to be binned IMO especially when the playoffs expand. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 15 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said: Or you can stop driving so recklessly. All of these guys have something they will need to work in the pros. Yes, I do understand the size argument for the NFL. It was mentioned with the height of both Bryce and Kyler coming out. Kyler has been injured multiple times, so I am not saying it's a valid position. Most dual-threat guys, regardless of size, learn to slide or get down in the NFL, and I do not think Jayden will be any different. He may have the highest ceiling outside of Williams, but I understand the front office may view Maye as a safer pick. I'm cool with that, but I think some skinny commentary for a guy who has played these many games against top completion demonstrates it's more than luck. This bolded part has been said many times and is so weird to me. Maye has a sky high ceiling. He's big, very athletic, fast for his size, can run well, has a huge arm, can throw off platform well, can create plays out of nothing, has shown that he can make any throw, including tight window and anticipation, even with a pretty poor supporting cast. The only thing Daniels has over him is running a likely 4.4 vs a likely 4.6 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA2DC Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, mistertim said: This bolded part has been said many times and is so weird to me. Maye has a sky high ceiling. He's big, very athletic, fast for his size, can run well, has a huge arm, can throw off platform well, can create plays out of nothing, has shown that he can make any throw, including tight window and anticipation, even with a pretty poor supporting cast. The only thing Daniels has over him is running a likely 4.4 vs a likely 4.6 We disagree and will not find the true answer for a few years. Regardless, I'm cool with either one at #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 10 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said: We disagree and will not find the true answer for a few years. Regardless, I'm cool with either one at #2. Besides running a faster 40 time what specific things do you think Daniels can do that Maye can't and which lowers his perceived ceiling compared to Daniels? Edited February 23 by mistertim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Going Commando said: I don't understand what point you are trying to make, or how you feel that it relates tonyhe discussion about the play Daniels made. And I didn't understand your point as well. If a QB sees that the defense is giving his WR wide open space and exploits that, even if it is on a 1st read - like Howell did in that video and even directed his WR - how is that not a good trait to have in the NFL. As a QB you take advantage of that and turn that into a 75 yards TD pass like in that Howell's video. Why wouldn't that translate to the NFL? All QB love to see no safety help whether in college or in the NFL. Edited February 23 by zCommander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderInTheRye Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) Craig Hoffman and Logan Paulsen give their exhaustive annual pre-combine analysis of quarterbacks available in the draft. Some of you will be pleasantly surprised and ecstatic with their conclusions. Hurrah, to you! But I fear that some of you will be distraught and shocked to the very core of your being. So much so that they will begin to question whether 'tis nobler to endure the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune... Or whether it is time to just give in and quietly shuffle off this mortal coil... Warning: The following is not for the feint of heart. I assume no responsibility for what happens to anyone courageous enough to actually watch this. Edited February 23 by CommanderInTheRye 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, zCommander said: And I didn't understand your point as well. If a QB sees that the defense is giving his WR wide open space and exploits that, even if it is on a 1st read - like Howell did in that video and even directed his WR - how is that not a good trait to have in the NFL. As a QB you take advantage of that and turn that into a 75 yards TD pass like in that Howell's video. Why wouldn't that translate to the NFL? All QB love to see so no safety help whether in college or in the NFL. The only times WRs get that open in the NFL is completely blown coverages. It does happen every so often, but very rarely. So yes, it's great that he saw a receiver running completely free and got him the ball, but that generally has little relevance in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 11 hours ago, MartinC said: He’s 6’ 4”. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Going Commando said: So Kurt thinks that play resulting in a stupid fumble is disqualifying of Caleb being QB1, while simultaneously thinking Jayden is QB1. I'd like Kurt to explain how Caleb was supposed to step up into that collapsing pocket. And why isn't the stupid fumble by Jayden in the Ole Miss game disqualifying? On that play, Jayden did have a clean pocket, completed a full drop, climbed his ladder, and had an open Brian Thomas on an easy shallow crosser the whole way. But he passed him over because there was a linebacker in the area and his instinct is always to run first when he has to make moving or tight window throws. He also tried to cut his run back up field after first contact, which would be dumb even for a QB that has NFL caliber strength. Because he didn't watch the Ole Miss game? He broke down the Alabama game. Edited February 23 by ThatNFLChick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 hours ago, Jumbo said: Simple for me. No to Daniels. My call is with the camp that thinks he's not going to be durable in this league. I know his supporters arguments, and I acknowledge his strengths, but I am dead set against him because of his physical build. Period. Happy to be wrong and wish success for him but with it looking fairly certain that Maye available at #2, I hope it's another team that will give Daniels his chance. Yep. He doesn't have an NFL body and there is nothing he can really do about that. He can't broaden his shoulders and hips and dramatically increase his physical might. He's a 23 year old man now. I agree with you that it doesn't need to be more than just that to disqualify him from being in the same tier as Maye and Williams. But it is more than that for me. He's not as creative as them, doesn't see the field as well or process as quickly as them, doesn't have the same playmaking instincts as then, doesn't manage pressure as well as them, doesn't have the arm talent that they have, took a lot longer to break out and demonstrate that he was an NFL level prospect, and he played in a far better situation with way better teammates and coaches. I think I might have been the first poster on this forum to take Daniels seriously as a top ten pick, and same for McCarthy. I absolutely think both are top ten worthy, and they were interesting to me back when it seemed like we were going to pick around four or five and be out of the Williams/Maye tier. I understand their potential pretty well. It's really clear for me that nither are the same caliber prospect as Maye or Williams. There is a significant cliff from Maye to the Daniels/McCarthy tier, and they are closer to each other than they are to Maye. It'd be really crazy and concerning to me if we passed over either Williams or Maye for them. Trust doesn't come easily for me, and I would not trust Quinn and Peters unconditionally if they made what I feel to be an immediate and significant mistake at QB. 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA2DC Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, mistertim said: Besides running a faster 40 time what specific things do you think Daniels can do that Maye can't and which lowers his perceived ceiling compared to Daniels? We disagree, so there is no need to get into spect attributes. Overall, I think he is a better and playmaker/difference than Maye. That's my opinion, and he's proven that against better competition. I am aware that top QBs currently have gone to Texas Tech, Louisville, Oregon, North Dakota St. (or wherever Allen went), LSU, and I forgot where Stafford went. So there is no correlation of where you play in college, just like I'm sure Maye will probably be better than previous UNC QBs😀. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 For the trade down crowd: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 12 minutes ago, zCommander said: And I didn't understand your point as well. If a QB sees that the defense is giving his WR wide open space and exploits that, even if it is on a 1st read - like Howell did in that video and even directed his WR - how is that not a good trait to have in the NFL. As a QB you take advantage of that and turn that into a 75 yards TD pass like in that Howell's video. Why wouldn't that translate to the NFL? All QB love to see no safety help whether in college or in the NFL. The play you posted wasn't an example of an on time throw to a dominant first read receiver running wide open up the seam. It was a scramble where Howell created an off script play by extending it and allowing Downs to uncover late. But if you were trying to argue that I'm wrong and that it is something that readily translates to the NFL, then that argument wouldn't make sense either, because the clip you posted was from Howell in college. And even if what Howell did in that clip was a 1:1 match of the play that Daniels made, and you were arguing that it could be a demonstration of elite NFL prospect play, that wouldn't be cogent either because Howell was not an elite NFL prospect and doesn't set that standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, DogofWar1 said: Is there such a thing as overthinking when it comes to finding a franchise qb in a franchise who hasn't had a franchise qb in decades (arguably ever but at least since 91)? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) I just watched QB School's breakdown on Maye vs Clemson. Again he talks about Maye's low football IQ. I can't sorry, feels like Zach Wilson. For people wanting to know specifics: In the Duke game UNC is in the redzone. They break the huddle and there are only 10 men on the offense on the field. Then they actually get up on the line of scrimmage and still don't have enough men on the line. Maye doesn't notice, snaps the ball, someone comes running in late who is ineligible and he doesn't notice and throws him the ball for a TD. He said its just super low football IQ when you're the leader of the team. The other play was when he drifted like 10-15 yards backward, he had nobody open and instead of throwing the ball out of bounds, he just ran out of bounds with the ball in his hands and lost 15 yards. Like its just basic football stuff that you can not do. So similar to Zach Wilson being physically talented but having low football IQ on several plays a game Edited February 23 by ThatNFLChick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, MartinC said: When I watch Williams for example the arm talent and play making ability is off the charts. But the offense he was in was just a mess (alarmingly Kingsbury was part of that). It’s basically just scramble drill and let Williams figure it out. I heard some discussion with a USC reporter talking to somebody on some podcast. According to him, his primary focus wasn't the offense or the offensive construction, it was just working with Caleb on certain things, and helping him handle situations. I'm not sure if that's true or false, or how much input he had on the offense, but according to this guy, it wasn't much. 1 hour ago, FootballZombie said: He has been on this tilt for years. (2017) https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/05/kurt-warner-says-young-qbs-arent-taught-how-to-play-the-game-which-is-a-dumb-thing-to-say Kurt- “I do see that. I blame less the player and more the coaches. I believe the systems have become more simplified from the standpoint where it’s simply a numbers game or my guy is better than your guy. Or you have the zone read part of it.” Kurt is one of the smartest QBs of all time, and he knows what he's talking about. He's not wrong. I can barely watch the college game. It's infuriating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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