The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ThatNFLChick]

48 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That is assuming Kliff is like Kyle and can craft a one read offense that will work in 2024.

 

 

 

Daniels was not in a one read offense at LSU so why would he need to be in one in the NFL? People should look up Mike Denbrock's offense. It's a pro-style offense (except rarely under center) with a mix of RPO and WCO

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

Uncertain if Cousins talk has occurred -- I'm sure it has, I may have even engaged in discussion -- but how we feeling about ol Kirk coming back for a couple seasons? Assuming he's still able to play solid, he'd be the best QB this team has had since, well, the time he left.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

1 minute ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Uncertain if Cousins talk has occurred -- I'm sure it has, I may have even engaged in discussion -- but how we feeling about ol Kirk coming back for a couple seasons? Assuming he's still able to play solid, he'd be the best QB this team has had since, well, the time he left.

You better duck. The rocks are about to be flying. Lol.

[mistertim]

25 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Daniels was not in a one read offense at LSU so why would he need to be in one in the NFL? People should look up Mike Denbrock's offense. It's a pro-style offense (except rarely under center) with a mix of RPO and WCO

 

It may not technically be one-read-and-run offense per se, but when you watch Jayden's cutups and keep track of his head, you see him much of the time not get past his first read before he runs. He also has a tendency to lock onto his first read right after the snap a bit too much for my liking.

 

Now, part of that might be because his 1st reads were getting open so often, which wouldn't be surprising given that he was throwing to Nabers and Thomas. But it still raises the same concern as the low number of tight window and anticipation throws. He may be able to do it, but he didn't have to a lot in college so you don't have much of a sample size to make that prediction. 

Edited February 14 by mistertim

[clskinsfan]

8 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

We probably will see some level of noticeable visible change when he shows up to training camp this year.

On his frame? I doubt it. I was concerned with his frailty before the draft last year. But he is at a position where it is far less concerning than QB. Oh. And lets not forget Forbes got injured and missed 2 games last year.

Edited February 14 by clskinsfan

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Uncertain if Cousins talk has occurred -- I'm sure it has, I may have even engaged in discussion -- but how we feeling about ol Kirk coming back for a couple seasons? Assuming he's still able to play solid, he'd be the best QB this team has had since, well, the time he left.

 

[clskinsfan]

7 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Maye v Nix, is there a massive gulf in their ability ?

Yes. It is grand canyon sized. 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

8 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

You better duck. The rocks are about to be flying. Lol.

[ThatNFLChick]

18 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Uncertain if Cousins talk has occurred -- I'm sure it has, I may have even engaged in discussion -- but how we feeling about ol Kirk coming back for a couple seasons? Assuming he's still able to play solid, he'd be the best QB this team has had since, well, the time he left.

 

No. No. No. He is older. He never got anywhere or did much despite having a ton around him in Minnesota and he will want money. Pass. 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

 

No. No. No. He is older. He never got anywhere or did much despite having a ton around him in Minnesota and he will want money. Pass. 

But really, though. He could help stabilize this team for a couple years while they shovel themselves out of the crap pit.

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

On Cousins, seems pretty clear Commanders are focused on running some version of Air Raid, and I don't think that aging pocket-passer Cousins, coming off an Achilles injury, is going to be the mobile QB that would be a fit, even if he weren't going to be learning a new offense after 12 years of not-Air-Raid experience. 

 

Watching Maye and Daniels clips, I don't see much difference in arm strength or in accuracy/anticipation. Have seen both throw behind receivers at different levels of the field, seen both thread needle in coverage, seen both show good touch/placement on fades/etc. Both look like young QB's with things to work on.

 

What worries me about Daniels is the same thing everybody else sees - skinny kid who could take one bad hit and be done for good. What worries me about Maye is a record of inconsistent performances the last couple years, and saving his worst for last / fading down the stretch in both 2022 and 2023. 

Edited February 14 by Dah-Dee

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

But really, though. He could help stabilize this team for a couple years while they shovel themselves out of the crap pit.

 

 

Bringing Cousins back is just adding to the crap pit. He's old, coming off of a season ending injury, has always been a choker, and is going to want a huge contract. Hard hard hard pass.

[BurgundyBooger]

Cousins might want to go to a competitive team with a shot at the title, as it would most likely be his last rodeo (at least as a starter). He had his shot in Minnesota with Diggs and Thielen at their prime, and a strong running game, but he squandered that golden opportunity and I’m not convinced he’ll find another like that.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Something worth discussing that I haven't seen much of in here ... we COULD opt to sit our rookie QB early in the season. Maye is pretty young. Caleb is on the younger side. Jayden Daniels may be a bit raw. I know the impetus is to start your rookie ASAP, but we have seen time and time again how beneficial it can be for a rookie to sit, even if just for a short spell.

 

Since we have one young QB in Howell already on the roster (and presuming he doesn't get traded), I could see us rolling with Howell to start the season before flipping over to the rookie when it's clear the time has come. We know we likely aren't "going anywhere" next year, and truthfully the difference in performance between Howell and a rookie early on may not be that significant. There's also the chance that Howell just balls TF out early in the season with a better OL and another year of development, and we find ourselves in the Chargers' position from the early 2000's when they traded Brees to make room for Rivers. 

 

Not saying Howell is the next Brees, but if he plays well next season and holds off the rookie, he could become a super valuable trade asset after 2024. 

Edited February 14 by JamesMadisonSkins

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

The Josh Rosen thing made sense to me. He was barely the 4th QB taken in that draft, had an injury history (had to have surgery on the shoulder of his throwing arm in college), had a ton of maturity/leadership issues, and Kingsbury DID NOT draft him. Steve Wilks drafted him and then was fired after they went 3-13 and Rosen finished his rookie season with Bryce Young rookie season numbers (11 TDs and 14 INTs). When Kingsbury was hired he wanted to select his own QB for his system and they had the #1 pick so he could. 

Steve Kiem drafted him - and Kiem was still the GM who hired Kingsbury. You have to give Kingsbury some credit for convincing Kiem to draft a QB 1st overall a year after taking a QB in the top 10 of the previous years draft.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Uncertain if Cousins talk has occurred -- I'm sure it has, I may have even engaged in discussion -- but how we feeling about ol Kirk coming back for a couple seasons? Assuming he's still able to play solid, he'd be the best QB this team has had since, well, the time he left.

I’m one of the bigger Cousins believers out there, and a major denouncer of the idea that he lacks a “clutch gene”, but we need a fresh start. 
 

We lucked (seriously, so much had to go right) into the #2 overall pick in a good QB year. Even rarer, it happened at the dawning of a new era with the intersection of a new owner, new GM, new coaching staff. Don’t overthink it, kickstart the franchise with a deserving rookie QB pick at #2 overall like a normal franchise. Half the advantage of a young QB is they’re cheap so you can build up the rest of your roster. Cousins spits in the face of that. Just be normal for once as a franchise and be fine with growing pains imo. 

Edited February 14 by Conn

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Daniels was not in a one read offense at LSU so why would he need to be in one in the NFL? People should look up Mike Denbrock's offense. It's a pro-style offense (except rarely under center) with a mix of RPO and WCO

Perhaps that’s unfair to Daniels, but in regards to Griffin - it was primarily a one read or run offense.  I would expect any OC to simplify the game for Daniels as well, and build from there.

[The Consigliere]

22 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Its very weird how upset people get at posting opinions from verified NFL scouts and analysts. You know its perfectly fine for you to post from those who have Drake Maye as their #1 if you choose. 

Personally, I'm just confused, maybe it means I need to research, but there are an absolute litany of people on twitter who say anything and everything, so discriminating between who is a twitter this or a twitter that, and who actually does some work requires some extra leg work from the reader, and I am far too lazy to do that. Maybe its a me problem, I'm willing to own that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Perhaps that’s unfair to Daniels, but in regards to Griffin - it was primarily a one read or run offense.  I would expect any OC to simplify the game for Daniels as well, and build from there.

 

I think what Daniels has similar to RG3 in when flushed out of the pocket, they take off a lot versus throwing off platform.  Am guessing RG3 is slightly faster.  Daniels more zig and zag to his running style.  RG3 with the stronger arm.   

Edited February 14 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

22 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Do Right And Kill Everything

 

The one down side is that they might just blast Drake songs everytime Maye tosses a TD. Get ready for 3-4 renditions of "Miss Me" when we rout the Cowboys Week 1.

Oh gawd, you had to go and ruin it for me lol. 

[NOLA2DC]

Every year people recite the same critiques of dual threat QBs

[wit33]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't want ideally a QB with a low ceiling.  As for Nix he might have one of the highest floors but I don't feel as confident of that as I did pre-Senior Bowl.  Surprised he had a "meh" Senior Bowl.     Senior Bowl aside, I do think he can have a long career in the NFL but I doubt its as a top 15 type QB.  I am guessing 3rd tier type.

 

If they are dropping down, the only one I'd go for is McCarthy but considering McCarthy has top 10 hype i don't see how this team can drop down and be confident that he would be there waiting for them considering all the other QB needy teams.

 

I get a bit feisty on this point because most of these regimes inherited or got a QB without serious pedigree.  Spurrier got Ramsey, 2nd round talent who was a surprise late first round pick.   Gibbs with Campbell, -- 2nd round talent who was a surprise late first round pick.    Haskins who the teams own scouts rated as a third rounder, taken in the mid first. My other point on that if you are stuck back with third-forth tier QBs, you aren't becoming a serious contender, you are stuck at the same place you've been for the last 30 plus years.  

 

RG3 was the exception.  And it flamed out but for one season it was electric.   This time we don't even have to trade up.  We are right there.  Shoot high take Maye or if not Daniels is fine.  This is a good draft for QBs -- yes all the fans don't agree on that but they don't ever agree on that subject so if we wait for fan agreement here or on twitter we might have wait until 2064 to get that QB high.  Jordan Reid, ex-college QB, also said its a good draft for QBs the other day on Keim's podcast.  It's the conventional wisdom with the scouting community.

 

For me going for the next Haskins, Campbell, Ramsey type of that tier pedigree would feel nauseating. 

 

Maye has very high upside.  So does Daniels.  Daniels IMO has further to go in his development and am worried about his durability so hence I favor Maye.  But both dudes would be #1 in other drafts.  And that's not just me saying it.  Personnel-scouts have said the same in quotes that I've put here especially as to Maye. 

Ignoring injuries, do you lean towards Daniels over Maye?
 

 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think what Daniels has similar to RG3 in when flushed out of the pocket, they take off a lot versus throwing off platform.  Am guessing RG3 is slightly faster.  Daniels more zig and zag to his running style.  RG3 with the stronger arm.   

 

Absolutely hate Daniels wasnt a former baseball player, off platform throws and baseball slides are below average for him. Admire his consistent throwing motion and am hopeful he measures close to or at 6'4. Love the concept of having an elite dual-threat player who can excel at checking down without being prone to batted balls and similar issues.

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On another note, boy are they telegraphing they are taking a QB.

 

A.  Hiring a staff that specilaizes in college offense -- setting up that QB for an easy adjustment

 

B.  Klingbury's record as an O coordinator isn't pristine. But listening to many narratives about him for those who know him and covered him -- if he has one niche its evaluating QB talent and developing them.

 

Some forget but Josh Rosen had some hype even after his rookie season.  Some drooled over his mechanics-foot work, etc.  Yet Kliff discarded him and went with Murray.  That decision was clearly the right one. 

Not that I think they pass on taking a qb at 2, but couldn’t your points also lend themselves to sticking with Howell?  Howell has the arm talent, (mostly) positive intangibles, flashed, has pro experience but is still young, could benefit with an offense more catered to him (Kingsbury’s offense and his connection with Longo looms large), and that #2 could be parlayed into (even more) improvement of the supporting cast for Howell.

 

Again, I don’t see them going that route.  Frankly, feels like it would be spitting in the face of karma, lol.  Heck, even if they really like Howell, even if they have him on par w/ Maye, the added 3 years of a rookie contract is pretty massive.  However, I don’t think it would be too hard for the staff to sell the possibility to the rest of the league (if they cared to).

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, NOLA2DC said:

Every year people recite the same critiques of dual threat QBs

 

Yes its why I am not doing the back and forth anymore

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Personally, I'm just confused, maybe it means I need to research, but there are an absolute litany of people on twitter who say anything and everything, so discriminating between who is a twitter this or a twitter that, and who actually does some work requires some extra leg work from the reader, and I am far too lazy to do that. Maybe its a me problem, I'm willing to own that. 

 

the short version of it is.  As to Maye, Daniels, some like one, some like the other more.

 

As for what gets posted here, just depends on whatever people feel like.  is it Brugler putting Maye ahead of Daniels the other day in his top 100.  Or Reid doubling down from ESPN again that he prefers Maye.  Or is it Yates from ESPN doubling down again that he's a Daniels guy or Reddick says its again.

 

It's repetitive.  And if this is some type of contest in popularity I'd guess it ends up around 50-50, judging purely by talking heads.  

 

But for me it ultimately gets boring, since its not a popularity contest among the media that will of course determine the pick.

 

Happens every draft.  It's actually shades of the last time we picked #2.   RG3, Luck stuff, some swore by Luck, some like Greg Cosell, Salsbury (if I recall), Bayless among others said RG3 is the dude.    It meant nothing to the bottom line, too.

 

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/08/31/colts-links-remember-when-many-said-rgiii-better-than-andrew-luck/71495180/

 

 Believe it or not, there was a debate back in 2012 about which quarterback coming out of college -- Robert Griffin III out of Baylor or Andrew Luck out of Stanford -- would be the better draft pick. Hindsight is 20-20, and we all know how that turned out. But given the drama surrounding RGIII in Washington, here's a look back from The Big Lead:

 

"In January 2012, Tony Dungy told Dan Patrick the Colts should pick Griffin. 'I like those mobile guys,' Dungy told Patrick, saying he thinks they supply an 'extra dimension….they are intriguing to me…I like Robert Griffin. … I do [like him over Luck]. As I say, just watching him play a couple of games, not studying it every throw and every play.'

" ... [Merril] Hoge was also 'blown away' by Griffin’s arm strength and velocity. 'Luck is good, however [the football] didn’t come out like RG3.' Hoge said that in 'half a heart beat' he would select Griffin over Luck if he was drafting for Indianapolis. 'Don’t be shocked if the Colts take RG3. … Football people will look at this, and they’ll be like ‘holy cow. That kid [Griffin] is unreal.’”

 

And for added measure, a memorable comment from ESPN2 commentator and Luck's favorite troll Skip Bayless.

Edited February 14 by Skinsinparadise