The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, illone said:

 

 

Who is the backup for next season?

 

A veteran hopefully? Surely people don't think Howell can or should mentor a rookie QB. 

[RWJ]

13 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Trade him? At least see if there is any interest. The Broncos need someone, the Saints might be looking for a successor to Carr but won't have a high draft pick, the Raiders, etc. 

 

I just don't see the value of keeping him around to be a 3rd QB that may not even be active most games or stashed on the PS. 

It'd be nice if someone bit, but he's been beaten up mentally and physically.  I guess a team would give up a 7th for him.  

[El Mexican]

Y'all seen the ProBowl selections?

 

Sweat made the list, as well as Trent Williams.

 

Zero players from our team.

 

Man we suck.

[skinsarethebest]

4 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

And he is still on his feet and playing, when is the last time a QB has made it through half a season here? New offense and coach 1st year starter.  K.Pickett  B.Young, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Mac Jones, Justin Fields, A.Richardson 1st rd. picks D.Ridder 3rd. He was a 5th rd. pick are any of these any better, every one of these have been benched except A.Richardson ,he only made it few games this season. Why are they still with their teams? 

You’re selectively ignoring a lot of strong counter examples - Brock Purdy, Stroud, Trevor Lawrence, the list goes on and on….  There are quite a few rookies who outperformed Howell during their rookie year by a wide margin 

[Jericho]

56 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

Y'all seen the ProBowl selections?

 

Sweat made the list, as well as Trent Williams.

 

Zero players from our team.

 

Man we suck.

 

You can count half a Sweat.

[El Mexican]

20 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

You can count half a Sweat.

 

Oh dear LOL

[method man]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

A veteran hopefully? Surely people don't think Howell can or should mentor a rookie QB. 

Why can’t QB3 be a cheap veteran who mentors both? Grossman was QB3 here when RG and Kirk were QB1 and QB2

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I was so onboard with him the first year and a half. I really was. I blindly defended him at times 

 

Me too. i defended him plenty.  But I was also somewhat consistent on one point which was yes maybe Rivera hasnt pushed the envelope yet but he was building up to something, and would make his move in off season #4.  When Ron never pushed the envelope at all, I bailed on him and big time so.

 

9 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 

But the arrogance and superiority complex drove me away slowly. 

 

Me too, that's what made me actually feeling rabidly down on him.  If it was just the lackluster off season, I'd have a beef with Ron but it would lack any vitriol.  But the arrogance of his off season both in its execution and rhetoric was really off putting.  It actually reminded me of Bruce Allen.  And if you told me before 2023 that I'd equate Ron with Bruce, I'd say that's nuts.  But the 2023 off season and all of Ron's comments gave me so many flashbacks to Bruce Allen and that era.

 

Maybe and i don't mean this sarcastically it was meant to be like that.  We've been living a sports nightmare during the Dan era-- so getting one last loud reminder of it as Dan's regime officially comes to a close after this Sunday is apt.  Darkest before the dawn.

Edited January 4 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

It's one of many fails from Ron but its amazing how fickle the dude is.  Ron going from Howell is the guy and he found this gem, this was his rap for most of the season, to now throwing in the towell on it a few games later

 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

Ron is admitting to whiffing on a quarterback three years in a row.  But he's not wrong.  I'm throwing a party on the 8th.

[HTTRDynasty]

Yikes.

 

 

Edited January 4 by HTTRDynasty

[MrJL]

On the trade front Howell has failed less than Fields and Wilson who had multiple attempts to get right but people expect market ms for them

[skinsfan66]

10 hours ago, skinsarethebest said:

You’re selectively ignoring a lot of strong counter examples - Brock Purdy, Stroud, Trevor Lawrence, the list goes on and on….  There are quite a few rookies who outperformed Howell during their rookie year by a wide margin 

No I am not, I posted the losers and compared them. Since everybody thinks he is a loser 5th rd. pick. Purdy is the best pick, Stroud is a great pick, Lawerence not playing that great the last half of the season and picked no. 1 overall 3rd year sucked most of his rookie year too. I need to add Will Levis to that list 2nd rd. rookie loser lists.

[DJHJR86]

 

  

[Conn]

35 minutes ago, MrJL said:

On the trade front Howell has failed less than Fields and Wilson who had multiple attempts to get right but people expect market ms for them

Fields has pedigree, can run, and is perceived as having untapped potential. 
 

Russ is washed compared to what he was and his current contract is a disaster (though whoever gets him next will get him cheap bc whatever they pay just offsets the tens of millions DEN already owes him) but he still threw 26 TD’s to 8 INT in an offense that isn’t a good fit for him this season. 
 

Neither are in the same situation or realm of regard as Howell, who has volume stats for a bad OC and little else to show for his season right now. Not all his fault, but acting like because those guys might have trade or FA markets that Howell should have a better market is pure homerism. 
 

Howell failed less than them? No he absolutely has not. Only a very niche group of Commanders fans would argue that. His contract is more valuable, but that has limits. 

[MrJL]

10 minutes ago, Conn said:

Fields has pedigree, can run, and is perceived as having untapped potential. 
 

Russ is washed compared to what he was and his current contract is a disaster (though whoever gets him next will get him cheap bc whatever they pay just offsets the tens of millions DEN already owes him) but he still threw 26 TD’s to 8 INT in an offense that isn’t a good fit for him this season. 
 

 

Wrong Wilson

[Rufus T Firefly]

17 minutes ago, MrJL said:

Wrong Wilson

You don't actually think Zach Wilson has trade value, do you?

[Conn]

16 minutes ago, MrJL said:

Wrong Wilson

There are people who think Zach Wilson will have a trade market? I highly doubt that, his 5th year option has no value. Not sure why you mentioned him and Fields in the same sentence lol, I just assumed you meant Russ (who will be cut of course). 

[Koolblue13]

I guess Fields is friends with MHJ and, so is Moore and the team believes in Fields and he's really come on. They could absolutely STACK that offense for him.

Edited January 4 by Koolblue13

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

  

I’m not here to combat the narrative on Sam as I’m aware that he’s taken several steps backward, to the point I’m unsure if he can even be saved.

 

But @HTTRDynasty’s post above yours is very damning regarding EB’s offense and correlates to your post.

 

There’s not a ton of tape prior to December where Sam is missing a bunch of open reads or bailing from clean pockets.  There’s been nothing there, which is why for as much as I like Sam, knew his demise was coming.  You can only shake it off for so long before you start seeing ghosts and lose confidence.

 

Bottom line is Bienemy stinks, and I want him nowhere near anyone we draft.  

Edited January 4 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[TradeTheBeal!]

As time goes by, I think the narrative closest to reality is going to be the one that 2023 EB was/is so atrocious and predictable in his scheming and playcalling that the offensive players were almost impossible to accurately grade or appraise.

 

For instance, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Howells’s best moments this year, for me, were when he and BRob had numerous splash plays off-script.  Any attempts by him, or other offensive players, to shine/succeed with the constraints of the “game plan” were almost non-existent.

Edited January 4 by TradeTheBeal!

[TheGoodBits]

5 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

As time goes by, I think the narrative closest to reality is going the one that 2023 EB was/is so atrocious and predictable in his scheming and playcalling that the offensive players were almost impossible to accurately grade or appraise.

 

For instance, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Howells’s best moments this year, for me, were when he and BRob had numerous splash plays off-script.  Any attempts by him, or other offensive players, to shine/succeed with the constraints of the “game plan” were almost non-existent.

Also that Howell’s best games were early in the season before teams had enough film on the offense to really start to understand the predictability. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Just now, TheGoodBits said:

Also that Howell’s best games were early in the season before teams had enough film on the offense to really start to understand the predictability. 

100% correct.

[El Mexican]

13 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

A veteran hopefully? Surely people don't think Howell can or should mentor a rookie QB. 

 

Howell won't come back.

 

He's to young to be dragged into a heavy politics situation with a new owner that will almost certainly draft a young stud QB. This season has shown that drafting a franchise lineman won't necessarily help the team as a whole. The problems are too deep.

 

I was adamant about getting a top LT, but it makes little sense. 

 

For a new owner and GM the orthodox thing to do is start fresh from zero. And that includes a new QB.

 

That means byebye Howell.

[Wyvern]

Okay we're now seeing lots of  PFF 'gurus' and Twitter analysts piling on Howell -- offering up their select PFF stats (which I don't think always capture the completely accurate  picture) in support of their pronouncement that Howell is one of the worst QBs in the league.  Sorry, but even PFF stats need to be balanced within the context of other factors. 

 

Here are a few factors influencing those stats for your consideration.

 

1.  The offensive line's pass protection is not very good and maybe passing from a clean pocket means Howell was having to pass within 1-2 seconds which may not give much time for his primary and second targets to get open.  (That coupled with Bieniemy's insistence that Howell be decisive, may have led to Howell having to make 'bullet passes' to a receiver blanketed with several defenders around him, which does not always yield a good outcome.). Also, unless Howell successfully scrambles a bit, I don't see the O-line giving him enough time for attempting the longer throws which, if completed,  probably would improve his PFF stats.

 

2.  The receiving corps has a role in Howell's performance as well.  Since the O-line can only support quick passing plays, that puts a lot of pressure on them to get separation quickly, usually against a defense that's prepared for the shorter pass, since that's a tendency of the Bieniemy offense.  Assuming Washington's receivers can get slightly open, they are then challenged with having to catch and hang onto those passes Howell had to put pace on, in order to beat the defender to the spot.  Another problem is the absence of big-bodied WRs, who might be able to win on contested receptions that Howell attempts;  this season, the TE group has really just been Thomas.

 

3.  The defense hasn't been helping Howell much.  Everyone knows it's only a matter of time before they give up a bunch of points, and consequently Howell feels the pressure to play "Hero-Ball" to try to keep his team close.  That usually doesn't end well, which means the opponents get even more points, and now they can really pin their ears back and blitz Howell even more.

 

4.  The last eight games of Washington's schedule were against tougher defenses, and a time that Washington had more injuries at running back and offensive line -- which resulted in contests in which even more pressure would be on Howell to be able to, somehow, put up some gaudy passing numbers against these tough defenses. Even so, between Halloween and Thanksgiving, Howell was averaging over 300 yards of passing; however in December things really fell off the cliff for Howell  Maybe, it was due to the stronger defenses  figuring out how to best defend against the Howell-led Bieniemy offensive schemes, and that Bieniemy had run out of adjustments to make?  Or maybe all the sacks Howell took coupled with the extra games over the typical college schedule were taking their toll on Howell?

 

5.  Bieniemy certainly cannot be absolved of blame -- opponents appear to have figured out his offense, and I really haven't seen that many effective adjustments from Bieniemy. Moreover, it's amazing how he stubbornly keeps going so heavily back to the passing game. Considering how good Robinson is, I'd noted with surprise that no Washington RB has had a 100 yard rushing game this season. And even when the running game is working,  such as against the 49'ers, Bieniemy abandons it in the second half to go back to his one-dimensional passing attack.  I'd also note that in much of his play design, Bieniemy seems intent on making Howell fit his system, rather than consider ways to adjust his play schemes to maximize Howell's skill-set and mitigate Sam's height limitations.  (And maybe Bieniemy could consider more use of motion to help Howell better identify the defense's intentions; after all  most NFL innovative offenses are doing that these days)  Lastly, as far as supporting Howell during these last few weeks, it seems neither Bieniemy, Rivera, nor even Tavita Richards have done much in December in reaction to Howell's slide.

 

Look, I'm not trying to absolve Howell -- he's still got a lot to learn, and maybe his ceiling will wind up just being a journeyman backup. His height is a concern when playing from within the pocket.  Its not clear how well he's doing on his pre-snap reads, or going though his progressions.  Like many rookie QBs, (and Rex Grossman?) he still has that "Hero-Ball" mindset -- often at the wrong times.  He's tough and willing to take the hits, but I suspect he's now playing through some injuries/aches that might be impacting his throwing mechanics.  But while Howell is probably weary of the constant pressure of trying to execute Bieniemy's offense with a suspect supporting cast -- I don't think he's permanently "broken" and will forever be seeing 'ghosts.'. He seems to have a toughness and resilience to him, and I expect he'll bounce back and learn from his full first season of as an NFL starter.

 

Sorry, PFF and other social media analysts -- I don't think Howell's the worst QB in the league  -- look around, you'll quickly see lots of other starters and 'wannabe-starters' who looked a lot worse than him. IMHO, Howell just happened to be the starter, in essentially his rookie season, for a badly-run Rivera-led Washington team.  And since he wasn't able to carry the team to a winning season, and he's wearing down late in the season against night ranked defenses, he is now being made the scapegoat for the team's losing season.  And as I mentioned above, there's plenty of blame to go around.

 

Lastly, I apologize for my long post.  I just wanted to take the time to type it all out to offer up my thoughts on this matter for fellow ES'ers to read, consider, and/or comment.  These are just my own views and I don't plan to react to those seeking to debate with me on what I'd typed out above.  However, I do value reading other peoples thoughts on this matter -- after all, most ES'ers are better dialed in on this issue than many of the media pundits!

 

 

Edited January 4 by Wyvern