The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[NoCalMike]

Come on guys Heinicke would be an all-pro if it wasn't for a few drops from Terry.  FACTS!

 

Seriously, I am not sure if the goal here is to get the thread locked/closed but it has become bizarro world real quick.

[88Comrade2000]

Send Taylor back to his sister's couch.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Rdskns2000

[Theismann to HOF]

16 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Is Heinicke better than Allen?

Is Heinicke better than Herbert?

Is Heinicke better than Burrow?

 

I'm not 100% sold on Allen.  I recently watched him throw 3 interceptions in ONE QUARTER against the Falcons.  He is not the same QB when he faces a pass rush.  The Patriots defense didn't even touch him in the playoff game last weekend.

 

Herbert is the second best QB in the league after Rodgers.  He was amazing on that last drive in the 4th quarter against the Raiders.  Anyone who converts six 4th downs on one drive is special.

 

Right now, I would rate Burrow ahead of Heinicke, based on potential.

 

I would put Heinicke somewhere in the top 15.  He should definitely be a starting QB in this league.  He is good enough for a team to win a Super Bowl with.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Theismann to HOF

[Fan since a Fetus]

 

 

Goodbye

 

 

 

[KDawg]

I think the Raiders are going to keep Bisaccia and in turn they will keep Carr for another year.

 

I think our solution at QB is going to be the bridge vet and rookie. I think it's going to wind up being the only realistic solution. 

[skinzplay]

We have the best backup QB in the league. We know he can come in and deliver. I don't watch as much film as you guys do, and I definitely appreciate the insights that KDawg, SIP and others share here. Hell, I look forward to it! From my limited watching of college games this season, I really like Howell.

Edited January 18, 2022 by skinzplay

[mhd24]

36 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

We have the best backup QB in the league. We know he can come in and deliver. I don't watch as much film as you guys do, and I definitely appreciate the insights that KDawg, SIP and others share here. Hell, I look forward to it! From my limited watching of college games this season, I really like Howell.

Dude was 2nd in the NFL in turnover-worthy plays.  How many times did he just loft the ball in the middle of the field that wasn't intercepted?  We should have the Vegas game, but Moerig drops the sure INT.  He's not the best backup QB in the NFL.  For example, I'd much rather have someone like Minschew over Heineke.  Ditto Mariotta (who has led a team to the playoffs).  

 

He does not have NFL arm talent.  He limits what an offense can do.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I wish i watched the Manning cast last night, I've watched a bunch of them previously.  I presume that's a joke below but wonder how it went

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Dude was 2nd in the NFL in turnover-worthy plays.  How many times did he just loft the ball in the middle of the field that wasn't intercepted?  We should have the Vegas game, but Moerig drops the sure INT.  He's not the best backup QB in the NFL.  For example, I'd much rather have someone like Minschew over Heineke.  Ditto Mariotta (who has led a team to the playoffs).  

 

He does not have NFL arm talent.  He limits what an offense can do.  

I'm actually not opposed to him being a high end backup.

 

Key word there: high end BACKUP. He shouldn't be the day one starter at any point. I'd keep three next year: 1. Bridge, 2. Rookie, 3. Heinicke. If rookie isn't quite ready and we need a backup to play then Heinicke goes in. 

 

Heinicke should not be relied upon to be our starter.

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

We have the best backup QB in the league. We know he can come in and deliver. I don't watch as much film as you guys do, and I definitely appreciate the insights that KDawg, SIP and others share here. Hell, I look forward to it! From my limited watching of college games this season, I really like Howell.

 

Thanks.   Not sure he's the best,  but he's one of the better backups in the league IMO.

 

 

[Zim489]

TH isn’t even a high end back up. He’s a spark plug you hope to surprise a team with. You have to change your entire offense with him.

[Tarpon75]

9 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Explain his performances the last two weeks, vs. Philly and NYG.

 

Vs. Philly, no TDs, a pick and took 3 sacks.

 

The Giants were begging to be beaten and we had to rely on the running game to win what was one of, if not the absolute worst games of the year.

 

Taylor still found a way to take 3 sacks, complete 9 passes and throw for no touchdowns.

 

At what point, is that just who he is?  Considering the low scoring offense, lasted the entirety of the season, even though they were fortunate enough to scrape out victories in some of them.

 

 

Again,my initial response was not regarding his  overall effectiveness as a quarterback. What I was responding to was a quote saying that he was responsible being sacked 38 times. His play toward the end of the season certainly left plenty to be desired but obviously no quarterback is responsible for the entirety of the sacks registered against them. More often a function of offensive line getting beat or receivers not getting open.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Tarpon75

[Skinsinparadise]

Final PFF QB ratings for whatever its worth

 

 

[daveakl]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I think the Raiders are going to keep Bisaccia and in turn they will keep Carr for another year.

 

I think our solution at QB is going to be the bridge vet and rookie. I think it's going to wind up being the only realistic solution. 

So Mitch T, Teddy B, Marcus M? 

Sign Jamies W?

 

Haskins, Young, Davis, Cosmi for Watson?

 

I'm not saying do those players, but thats 3 1's and a 2nd.

[Skinsinparadise]

Washington Football Team

Get a new quarterback.

Taylor Heinicke did enough to make Washington believe he's a high-end backup/low-end starter. So the team won't just settle for anyone. With better health it still could have -- and should have -- won nine games with Heinicke starting. But Washington has started 32 quarterbacks since it last won the Super Bowl after the 1991 season. The team knows it has a low ceiling until it can solve that hole. It will be aggressive looking for a quarterback and, if one is available, trying to acquire him. The Washington front office believes the roster is good enough that it can surrender more assets than it would have felt comfortable doing a year ago. -- John Keim

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33080968/offseason-needs-priorities-all-32-nfl-teams-free-agency-2022-draft-targets-plus-coach-questions

NFL exec predictions for 2022: Quarterback shuffling and trades, coach changes, future teams for Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson

Eagles will shop for a new QB in 2022

Jalen Hurts led the Eagles to the playoffs but struggled at times with accuracy and bailing on the pocket too early. As one NFL personnel evaluator said, "He just doesn't see it fast enough" as far as diagnosing the defense and making the correct read on time.

That's why, behind aggressive GM Howie Roseman, the Eagles should at least scour the quarterback market. Contention might require it.

"When you have three first-round picks and you don't have a top guy at quarterback, you have to exhaust that option," an AFC exec said.

The Eagles were long rumored to be interested in Houston's Deshaun Watson, so they could monitor his market once again and see if Watson would be willing to go there. There hasn't been much momentum around him wanting to do that, though. (Watson has been accused of sexual assault and inappropriate behavior in 22 active civil lawsuits, and there would obviously need to be clarity on that situation before such a move.) Alternatively, Minnesota's Kirk Cousins is the kind of established passer that might interest Philly, though his $45 million cap hit would be an issue.

---

Washington will trade for Niners QB Jimmy Garoppolo

Though Garoppolo would be a solid option for the 49ers' offense in 2022 -- which would give Trey Lance another year to develop -- most execs agree that starting Lance is probably best because San Francisco can capitalize on the rookie-wage-scale savings while also giving him valuable experience. And so, the 49ers should spend part of the offseason pumping Garoppolo's trade market.

Meanwhile, it's time for Washington to solidify its passing game for the first time in the Ron Rivera era. One NFC scout says Washington's offense can accommodate Garoppolo's skill set.

"I have some concerns about Garoppolo outside of the Kyle Shanahan offense, but Washington has some in-breaking stuff that would be similar," the exec said. "It wouldn't be as much of an issue if you can define throws for him."

I don't get the sense a return for Garoppolo would be that pricey, too. Some teams believe you shouldn't have to give up a first-round pick for him because it's known that San Francisco is probably ready to play Lance, thus hurting its leverage. Plus, his $24 million salary on the last year of his deal must be reworked. But Garoppolo has played well enough to garner at least a strong Day 2 pick.

 

Seattle QB Russell Wilson will wear a new jersey in 2022

What's funny is Seattle and Wilson might be in a better place after this 7-10 season than last year's 12-4 campaign. Seahawks coaches and Wilson had positive conversations about the offense throughout the season, and Wilson likes offensive coordinator Shane Waldron. Whispers of discord aren't as prevalent right now as they once were.

But it's no secret that Wilson wants to quarterback a team in contention, or at least a team willing to make the necessary moves to get there. And as one team source says, Carroll and Wilson, though friendly, have philosophical differences on how to build a team and attack a defense. Carroll's method is tried and true, focused on a steady running game. Wilson, at least in the past, has wanted to open things up. Something might have to give if Wilson forces the issue this offseason.

"I don't think they are as high on him as they let on," an AFC exec said. "You've got to remember they've looked into trading him multiple times now. You don't do that with a top guy unless you're comfortable with it."

The Saints were on Wilson's original list of preferred destinations should the Seahawks try to trade him -- he has a no-trade clause -- and it would surprise if New Orleans didn't at least discuss the pros and cons of such a move. Jameis Winston, who went 5-2 as a Saints starter, also will be in the mix for them. The other preferred teams (Cowboys, Raiders and Bears) seem set at quarterback, barring a surprise like Seattle taking over Justin Fields' contract from the Bears.

But Wilson can always expand that list, too. The Giants are loaded with two top-10 picks to dangle, for example, and they have the market that might attract Wilson.

 

Browns will look to trade QB Baker Mayfield

The Mayfield-Kevin Stefanski relationship seems salvageable, and the franchise shouldn't be eager to dump a quarterback with winning experience after two decades of futility in that spot.

"But at the end of the day, it's not a great fit. He'd be best in a shotgun, up-tempo offense like they have in Arizona," an NFC exec said. "The Browns will get rid of the only good quarterback they've had in years and fall into the same traps of the past."

In this scenario, Mayfield would be looking for support. If the Seahawks did move on from Wilson, I wonder if the Browns would get involved. Seattle exec Alonzo Highsmith was on the Browns' staff that drafted Mayfield, and that offense -- though not like Arizona's unit -- could at least support him with a good running game while unlocking some of the up-tempo/shotgun stuff he might like.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/33087396/nfl-exec-predictions-2022-quarterback-shuffling-trades-coach-changes-future-teams-aaron-rodgers-russell-wilson

[Conn]

17 minutes ago, daveakl said:

So Mitch T, Teddy B, Marcus M? 

Sign Jamies W?

 

Haskins, Young, Davis, Cosmi for Watson?

 

I'm not saying do those players, but thats 3 1's and a 2nd.

We aren’t gonna go after Watson but he’s also not pulling 3 1’s and a 2 with his issues. 
 

Haskins isn’t on the roster lol but no you wouldn’t see a package like that for anyone in the league, that looks more like an NBA deal, it would mostly be draft picks whose value and usage are a lot more liquid.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

40 minutes ago, Tarpon75 said:

His play toward the end of the season certainly left plenty to be desired but obviously no quarterback is responsible for the entirety of the sacks registered against them. More often a function of offensive line getting beat or receivers not getting open.

Coverage sacks and jail breaks do happen, but they happen to everybody.  Heineke has the propensity to hang on to the ball vs. throw it away.  I can't tell you how many times I yelled at my screen "get rid of it" only for him to take the sack, sometimes 12 yards behind the line of scrimmage.  Even if a defender is coming free, he's supposed to have some semblance of an idea that's going to happen and make a decision, but he regularly takes the sack.  As for receivers not getting open, there's a plethora of tape all over twitter that suggests otherwise, practically every single week.  Where Heineke just isn't seeing it or simply doesn't have the tools to get it there.

 

Like I said, sometimes he makes extraordinary plays when those situations present themselves.  Other times, he eats a sack when he should just throw it away and move on to the next down.  

Edited January 18, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Ball Security]

7 hours ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

I'm not 100% sold on Allen.  I recently watched him throw 3 interceptions in ONE QUARTER against the Falcons.  He is not the same QB when he faces a pass rush.  The Patriots defense didn't even touch him in the playoff game last weekend.

 

Herbert is the second best QB in the league after Rodgers.  He was amazing on that last drive in the 4th quarter against the Raiders.  Anyone who converts six 4th downs on one drive is special.

 

Right now, I would rate Burrow ahead of Heinicke, based on potential.

 

I would put Heinicke somewhere in the top 15.  He should definitely be a starting QB in this league.  He is good enough for a team to win a Super Bowl with.

 

 

No you didn’t.  Allen did not throw three interceptions in one quarter against Atlanta.  Stop lying.

 

He did throw three picks that game, yes. A game that his team won.  And a game that he still led his team to 29 points.  So in this awful game that you cite he still puts up more points than Heinicke did in all but two of his starts.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Stop feeding the troll, guys.

 

I know it's hard to just let such outlandish and ridiculous statements slide, but if we ignore them - he'll find some other place to post illogical statements.

[zCommander]

8 hours ago, Ball Security said:

What great QB this century doesn’t get a chance to start until they are 28?

 

Ummmm...Kurt Warner.

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, zskins said:

 

Ummmm...Kurt Warner.

Warner was 27 when he got his chance with the Rams.  So the one person we can name that broke out in his late 20s was 1) younger than Heinicke and 2) got his start before Y2K.

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I wish i watched the Manning cast last night, I've watched a bunch of them previously.  I presume that's a joke below but wonder how it went

 

 

 

 

FYI - 

 

 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

Nobody we have a realistic shot at QB wise moves the needle much to me and that bridge is likely to be one that is short lived. If it's Jimmy G, given his injury history, we will assuredly see Heinicke starting and possibly a lot unless whichever rookie we take is ready for prime time. I don't have a great feeling about any of them though they're better options than TH. I hope we do not give up too much and the contract's not a stranglehold. We need to hit on QB in the draft. IMO, the QB that is the most Pro-Ready for me right now feels like Pickett. 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Chump Bailey

[daveakl]

23 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

We aren’t gonna go after Watson but he’s also not pulling 3 1’s and a 2 with his issues. 
 

Haskins isn’t on the roster lol but no you wouldn’t see a package like that for anyone in the league, that looks more like an NBA deal, it would mostly be draft picks whose value and usage are a lot more liquid.

 

I'm not saying use those players, I'm using those players to illustrate a point.

 

Offering 3 1s and a 2 sounds insane at first glance.  Put in to terms of players we have drafted over the past 3 years (Haskins, Young, Davis, Cosmi) and all of a sudden it's not as bad.

 

I doubt he comes here also (and who knows what his value really is with everything hanging over his head), but I think you could sell him on DC.  New name, new beginning, your chance to be the face of this team that is starting over (and basically you are doing the same).

[zCommander]

47 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Warner was 27 when he got his chance with the Rams.  So the one person we can name that broke out in his late 20s was 1) younger than Heinicke and 2) got his start before Y2K.

 

He was 28 when he started for the Rams. So not younger than TH. Not sure what Y2K had to do with what you said about no one in this universe has done it before at that late of an age.