The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[actorguy1]

Just now, Florgon79 said:

Would the Texans still trade Watson if he is able to get his charges or whatever dropped?

Watson was reported multiple times saying he would never play another snap for the Texans even before the legal stuff came up.

[rumplestilskin]

1 minute ago, Florgon79 said:

Would the Texans still trade Watson if he is able to get his charges or whatever dropped?

He said he wont play for them. Hes done there.

[CobraCommander]

I feel like I've heard the same thing about Wilson in Seattle and Rodgers in Green Bay. The fact is moving franchise QBs just doesn't happen very often. 

 

He probably really wants to play again and put this all behind him. I'm assuming this was fallout from Bill O'Brien or does he not want to play there because of the legal issues? Bill O'Brien hasn't been there in a long time.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Florgon79

[Redskins 2021]

2 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I feel like I've heard the same thing about Wilson in Seattle and Rodgers in Green Bay. The fact is moving franchise QBs just doesn't happen very often. 

 

He probably really wants to play again and put this all behind him. I'm assuming this was fallout from Bill O'Brien or does he not want to play there because of the legal issues? Bill O'Brien hasn't been there in a long time.

Watson will be moved that ship has passed. He most likely will be moved before March 17 when his 35 million dollar bonus is due. 

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I feel like I've heard the same thing about Wilson in Seattle and Rodgers in Green Bay. The fact is moving franchise QBs just doesn't happen very often. 

 

He probably really wants to play again and put this all behind him. I'm assuming this was fallout from Bill O'Brien or does he not want to play there because of the legal issues? Bill O'Brien hasn't been there in a long time.

It’s beyond O’Brien.  It goes all the way to the top of the organization.

https://www.si.com/nfl/texans/.amp/news/deshaun-watson-houston-texans-owner-cal-mcnair-hate-each-other-trade-miami-dolphins

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

But if you think we're going to get Watson, Wilson, Rodgers... Or even Carr or Mayfield... I'd stop thinking that those are solutions and stop looking to them.

 

Could it happen? Sure. There's a lot of low chance probability items that happen every single day. It's not impossible.

To piggyback on your message, which I agree with 100%...

 

Folks are getting a bit carried away because X media guy says they think Ron will go after Rodgers, or Ron didn't say he wouldn't try to get Watson, etc.

 

We can go after whoever we want, that still doesn't make it any more likely that they are a realistic option for us.  I would definitely cool my jets on any 'rumors' or 'tweets' about pulling in one of the big veterans.  We are currently in the part of the season where folks tweet all sorts of stuff, very rarely is it based on any actual information - it's more just throwing thoughts out there about things that 'make sense' but aren't necessarily realistic.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

We have discussed on here about some DL being expendable, and Rivera essentially said they are looking at the roster and considering assets that could potentially be moved. That was my interpretation when he discussed ways in which we can acquire a QB. That would imply to me that we intend to set our sights high initially.

 

Yeah no doubt.   He's more or less telegraphed this.  They are swinging hard first for a veteran and if they miss, they will trade up for whatever QB they love in the draft.  He talked about trading up in ther draft in a Finlay interview.   Aggressive big time.

 

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

Did you hear Phillips say he really thinks Rivera is going after Rodgers?  Whether that works out or not, he thinks that's his #1.

 

At the very least, this offseason will be extremely entertaining!  LOL

 

 

 

I did.  He thinks they are swinging for the fences.  I think he's right -- they will be very aggressive.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[shemp nixon]

I think the target is Russel Wilson.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 

Odds are we don't get. If he beats the criminal charges you can definitely consider it but you have to have an idea what NFL is going to do suspension wise.

 

If he beats criminal charges would the NFL decide on a suspension before or after he gets moved? If before at least we'd get to see what it is. If after...you know if he's with us they'll come down hard. If he went to the Giants it would be a 2 game suspension. If he comes here it will be a full season.

[Skinsinparadise]

To the point below, I agree with Rivera that this team is set up for a QB to succeed if we find the right one.

 

 

 

[mistertim]

Yeah I think one of the things we don't really appreciate that much due to having a subpar season overall, is how good our OL has performed. 

[Redskins 2021]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah no doubt.   He's more or less telegraphed this.  They are swinging hard first for a veteran and if they miss, they will trade up for whatever QB they love in the draft.  He talked about trading up in ther draft in a Finlay interview.   Aggressive big time.

 

 

I did.  He thinks they are swinging for the fences.  I think he's right -- they will be very aggressive.

Not getting Stafford last year was big. I think Rivera been thinking about it all year. The rebranding has to get off to a good start. We are at a cross roads. They will try to go big. Don't know if it will work but they will try.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[DiscoBob]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

To the point below, I agree with Rivera that this team is set up for a QB to succeed if we find the right one.

 

 

 

 

I don't know their grading scheme, but maybe Heinicke's "slippery" pocket presence and Turner's quick passing game are inflating the units grade?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

To piggyback on your message, which I agree with 100%...

 

Folks are getting a bit carried away because X media guy says they think Ron will go after Rodgers, or Ron didn't say he wouldn't try to get Watson, etc.

 

We can go after whoever we want, that still doesn't make it any more likely that they are a realistic option for us.  I would definitely cool my jets on any 'rumors' or 'tweets' about pulling in one of the big veterans.  We are currently in the part of the season where folks tweet all sorts of stuff, very rarely is it based on any actual information - it's more just throwing thoughts out there about things that 'make sense' but aren't necessarily realistic.

 

Following the process, like any year, lots of moving parts and things change over time.

 

5 things that have changed some in my own mindset versus before.  And granted things can change again.

 

A.  I thought there would be an air of desperation about their approach for QB.  But it screams even more desperate than I even imagined.  For example if there was a do over for the Stafford trade, I'd bet they'd end up with the best deal on the table if it went down this year.  I thought the air of desperation would be a 9 out of 10.  This feels like a 10 out of 10.

 

B.  i thought the market for veterans would be fairly vast but we'd not land any of them.  Now I am not so sure there will be much of a market period for ANY team.   Current rumors seem to be that almost all of these guys are staying put.  Granted the rumors could be false. 

 

C.  Cutting through the clutter, its screaming to me a veteran reclamation project, probably Trubisky or Mariota will be signed and they will trade up in the draft.  I don't think they are sitting at 11 and taking the BPA at QB.  I think if they got a target they like the most, they are trading up for him

 

D.  I used to think there is zero chance they'd chase Watson.  Now I am not 100% convinced they won't.  Don't get me wrong, if I had to bet on it, I'd say no.  But I wonder how they'd feel if they are desperate for a date to the prom but no prospects emerge aside from him.  What if no Jimmy G, Mayfield, Ryan, Rodgers, Wilson hit the market.  What if its just Watson?  My gut is they don't do it.  And Watson wouldn't want to come here.  But a small part of me wouldn't be shocked if we hear that they are toying with it albeit I'd still be surprised.  Before I would say 0% chance, now i'd say 5% 

 

E.  @mistertim in particular might like this thought.   I don't think they are going to draft more of a project type at QB the more I think about it.  I think Rivera telegraphed things when he suggested the Qb could play right away and why couldn't they win in season 1?  They feels to me like the project types which IMO are Ridder and Willis might be out.

 

 

15 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

I don't know their grading scheme, but maybe Heinicke's "slippery" pocket presence and Turner's quick passing game are inflating the units grade?

 

I think more likely the opposite as for Heinicke.  Rivera has talked about him holding on to the ball too long.  PFF ranked Heinicke as one of the worst QBs in the NFL in terms of being responsible for his own sacks.  I posted that stat in a different thread. 

 

 Rivera among others including the national media, PFF, etc seem very high on this o line.  I think its legit. 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Redskins 2021]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Following the process, like any year, lots of moving parts and things change over time.

 

5 things that have changed some in my own mindset versus before.  And granted things can change again.

 

A.  I thought there would be an air of desperation about their approach for QB.  But it screams even more desperate than I even imagined.  For example if there was a do over for the Stafford trade, I'd bet they'd end up with the best deal on the table if it went down this year.  I thought they air of desperation would be a 9 out of 10.  This feels like a 10 out of 10.

 

B.  i thought the market for veterans would be fairly vast but we'd not land any of them.  Now I am not so sure there will be much of a market period for ANY team.   Current rumors seem to be that almost all of these guys are staying put.  Granted the rumors could be false. 

 

C.  Cutting through the clutter, its screaming to me a veteran reclamation project, probably Trubisky or Mariota will be signed and they will trade up in the draft.  I don't think they are sitting at 11 and taking the BPA at QB.  I think if they got a target they like the most, they are trading up for him

 

D.  I used to think there is zero chance they'd chase Watson.  Now I am not 100% convinced they won't.  Don't get me wrong, if I had to bet on it, I'd say no.  But I wonder how they'd feel if they are desperate for a date to the prom but no prospects emerge aside from him.  What if no Jimmy G, Mayfield, Ryan, Rodgers, Wilson hit the market.  What if its just Watson?  My gut is they don't do it.  And Watson wouldn't want to come here.  But a small part of me wouldn't be shocked if we hear that they are toying with it albeit I'd still be surprised.  Before I would say 0% chance, now i'd say 5% 

 

E.  @mistertim in particular might like this thought.   I don't think they are going to draft more of a project type at QB the more I think about it.  I think Rivera telegraphed things when he suggested the Qb could play right away and why couldn't they win in season 1?  They feels to me like the project types which IMO are Ridder and Willis might be out.

 

 

 

I think more likely the opposite as for Heinicke.  Rivera has talked about him holding on to the ball too long.  PFF ranked Heinicke as one of the worst QBs in the NFL in terms of being responsible for his own sacks.  I posted that stat in a different thread. 

 

 Rivera among others including the national media, PFF, etc seem very high on this o line.  I think its legit. 

 

 

 

Scherff is gone no doubt. Do you think it will be more difficult to get Trubisky or Marrota with lack of veterans available. If we can't a better QB.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think more likely the opposite as for Heinicke.  Rivera has talked about him holding on to the ball too long.  PFF ranked Heinicke as one of the worst QBs in the NFL in terms of being responsible for his own sacks.  I posted that stat in a different thread. 

That can't be true. 😉

 

Every time we have a contingent of fans that likes a certain QB and they take a bunch of sacks, it's because our offensive line sucks.  Remember when Griffin would just take sack after sack and then Cousins would come in and all the sudden the Oline is good?

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Following the process, like any year, lots of moving parts and things change over time.

 

5 things that have changed some in my own mindset versus before.  And granted things can change again.

 

A.  I thought there would be an air of desperation about their approach for QB.  But it screams even more desperate than I even imagined.  For example if there was a do over for the Stafford trade, I'd bet they'd end up with the best deal on the table if it went down this year.  I thought they air of desperation would be a 9 out of 10.  This feels like a 10 out of 10.

 

B.  i thought the market for veterans would be fairly vast but we'd not land any of them.  Now I am not so sure there will be much of a market period for ANY team.   Current rumors seem to be that almost all of these guys are staying put.  Granted the rumors could be false. 

 

C.  Cutting through the clutter, its screaming to me a veteran reclamation project, probably Trubisky or Mariota will be signed and they will trade up in the draft.  I don't think they are sitting at 11 and taking the BPA at QB.  I think if they got a target they like the most, they are trading up for him

 

D.  I used to think there is zero chance they'd chase Watson.  Now I am not 100% convinced they won't.  Don't get me wrong, if I had to bet on it, I'd say no.  But I wonder how they'd feel if they are desperate for a date to the prom but no prospects emerge aside from him.  What if no Jimmy G, Mayfield, Ryan, Rodgers, Wilson hit the market.  What if its just Watson?  My gut is they don't do it.  And Watson wouldn't want to come here.  But a small part of me wouldn't be shocked if we hear that they are toying with it albeit I'd still be surprised.  Before I would say 0% chance, now i'd say 5% 

 

E.  @mistertim in particular might like this thought.   I don't think they are going to draft more of a project type at QB the more I think about it.  I think Rivera telegraphed things when he suggested the Qb could play right away and why couldn't they win in season 1?  They feels to me like the project types which IMO are Ridder and Willis might be out.

 

 

 

I think more likely the opposite as for Heinicke.  Rivera has talked about him holding on to the ball too long.  PFF ranked Heinicke as one of the worst QBs in the NFL in terms of being responsible for his own sacks.  I posted that stat in a different thread. 

 

 Rivera among others including the national media, PFF, etc seem very high on this o line.  I think its legit. 

 

 

 

 

For E) I'd say I mostly agree. But in that interview Rivera also sort of said two different things. He mentioned people being patient with a rookie for a couple of years but then also said that a rookie QB could play right away. Then again we also know that he's ok with starting raw guys since that's what he did with Cam. So I think it's still a bit up in the air, but yeah I'd lean in the same direction. They might not be looking for a big time project guy like Willis.

 

With regards to the OL and Heinicke, doesn't PFF also grade OL purely based on whether they won their matchups, so they can try to remove other factors like the QB from the equation? That's what I remember reading in the past. Which makes sense...if you're trying to grade one unit you want to only grade that unit, and exclude things that could muddy it.

 

For the Guards...holy cow, I didn't realize we had 3 Guards in the top 10 in run block win percentage. That's amazing. Yeah, just let Scherff bounce. He's been a good player for us but he wants a ****load of money and he's injury prone. But I wonder if the fact that he was injured and missed time yet again this season might sour other teams on  him. Maybe he screwed himself over by refusing to take the deal WFT offered him last year.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That can't be true. 😉

 

Every time we have a contingent of fans that likes a certain QB and they take a bunch of sacks, it's because our offensive line sucks.  Remember when Griffin would just take sack after sack and then Cousins would come in and all the sudden the Oline is good?

 

 

Yeah the irony is Garafolo is selling this team's supporting cast as part of the reason why a QB might want to come here.  He also sold Scott Turner.  Another national media guy recently said the same about the supporting cast, if I recall it was Breer?

 

We have one of the only teams in the NFL with a 1000 yard rusher.  We got an O line that can both block and pass protect.  We need another weapon at WR and another RB to help.  But overall the main thing this offense needs is the QB.

 

Average time to throw on drop backs, Heinicke had the 4th most time in the NFL among starters this season.  

 

As for the Heinicke Hive.  Heck Joe Thiesmann who was one of the bigger fans before the season of him and said why not Taylor as for being the solution, recently on air suggested the opposite.  He was super polite and classy as always but he more or less said he's not the guy, and they need to find one.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Pick6]

I think I am okay with trading for Watson, Rodgers, or Wilson over any QB in the first round. I would even be cool with that trade and late round rookie QB. 

 

I would take a QB room with one of those guys, Heinicke, and a rookie. 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Pick6

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Pick6 said:

I think I am okay with trading for Watson, Rodgers, or Wilson over any QB in the first round. I would even be cool with that trade and late round rookie QB. 

I’m good with Peyton Manning finding the Fountain of Youth, reverting to early-mid career form and signing with us for vet minimum.

 

I think it could work. 

[FootballZombie]

Getting a good vet QB behind this O-line would shred. Imagine what they would have looked like if they stayed healthy/avoided COVID.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

For E) I'd say I mostly agree. But in that interview Rivera also sort of said two different things. He mentioned people being patient with a rookie for a couple of years but then also said that a rookie QB could play right away.

 

Yep I posted that on this thread earlier today.  But thinking about it he was led into that point to some extent.  When he was free associating more, it screamed to me that he came off desperate to win this coming season.

 

Also as some who cover the team suggested, for them to rebrand this team, etc this presents a really important season for them -- and winning would help in a big way to sell the rebrand. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Then again we also know that he's ok with starting raw guys since that's what he did with Cam. So I think it's still a bit up in the air, but yeah I'd lean in the same direction. They might not be looking for a big time project guy like Willis.

 

 

Yeah its possible that they go heavy RO from the jump like they did with Cam but Cam I think was more advanced at this stage than Willis.

 

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

With regards to the OL and Heinicke, doesn't PFF also grade OL purely based on whether they won their matchups, so they can try to remove other factors like the QB from the equation? That's what I remember reading in the past. Which makes sense...if you're trying to grade one unit you want to only grade that unit, and exclude things that could muddy it.

 

 

They seperately grade the O line and the QB's part of sacks-pressure.  I forgot where I pulled it from, I'll look for it shortly, but I recall pulling and posting it days back that Heinicke had one of the worst rates in the NFL as being responsible for their own sacks -- I presume by holding on to the ball too long or running into pressure.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, shemp nixon said:

I think the target is Russel Wilson.

 

Me, too.  From what's been said lately I am doubting he hits the market.  But I'd bet they swing hard for him.

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Scherff is gone no doubt. Do you think it will be more difficult to get Trubisky or Marrota with lack of veterans available. If we can't a better QB.

 

I doubt it would be hard.   Trubisky was a FA last year and from what I could tell he didn't have much of a market.    But will see. 

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, Pick6 said:

I think I am okay with trading for Watson, Rodgers, or Wilson over any QB in the first round. I would even be cool with that trade and late round rookie QB. 

 

I would take a QB room with one of those guys, Heinicke, and a rookie. 

 

 

Why in the world would you settle for those guys? Just trade for Mahomes and be done with it. I think Sweat, Payne, and a 2nd rounder should do it.

[Ball Security]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Me, too.  From what's been said lately I am doubting he hits the market.  But I'd bet they swing hard for him.

 

 

 

Mr. Forbes, who is our MLB?