The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I am deathly afraid of the football Gods, their rath, and their whims.  I worship at the alter of the football gods.  

 

In this case, however, I believe the football Gods WANT Hallock to start so this long, suffering fan base can see Allen and Payne pound him into the turf.  I think they're on our side.  Our demons have been Exorcised.  The football God's are on our side now.  

 

So, to Hallock:

 

 

Hmmm...good point, too!

 

[Thinking Skins]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

14 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

The metrics say it's not even a 50/50 chance to convert a 2-point conversion.  So you're being a bit bullish on the odds there.  Also, I don't think THIS offense has figured out short yardage yet.  They tried the Logan Thomas thing twice, they've tried to run it, pass it, and none of it has been especially effective or repeatable.  

 

Maybe in a few weeks, but I get the distinct feeling EB is still trying to figure out short yardage.  I would have been fine if they went for it, but I'm fine with them not going for it also.  

This is why i wasn't too big on going for the 2. We didn't get the 4th and goal at the 2 against Buffalo last week and it haunts me. Not bad dreams wise, but just like you say, we haven't figured it out yet. Our line is not in cohesion yet. We tried Thomas. We tried BRob. It would be different if we had more success but I wasn't mad. 

 

That said. I think Sam is the man and you never take it out of the man's hands. So the fact that the man  got the ball to start overtime says something and so he was dealing to start overtime and then the catch / no catch was there. I can honestly understand the punt decision because I'm thinking of a Gruden quote and its about playing a field position game and using Way as a weapon and pinning them deep and thats what I was honestly thinking. So the shank was the LAST think I was expecting. Then we lost. 

[Koolblue13]

I so want to see Heini play against Payne and Allen.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Same comment as my Jay Gruden comments: what the hell has Jason Garrett ever done except fail to meet expectations with loaded teams to earn the right to have an "expert opinion."  Dude is a no-nothing, bottom of the barrel OC and worse HC who was appointed by Skeletor to coach a loaded team.  I actually think he and Jay Gruden are the same person.  Except Garrett had better talent to fail with.  

Jason Garrett and Jay Gruden have forgotten more about football than you’ll ever aspire to know.

 

Just cuz dudes aren’t great head coaches doesn’t mean they don’t know football.  
 

Only VoR can make me defend Jason Garrett. 🤣
 

 

[DJHJR86]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't fear Heinicke even a little.  Bring him on.  it would be fun. 

 

Barring an injury I don't see the Falcons benching Ridder.  They are doing an experiment kind of like we are with Howell.  

[Thinking Skins]

Here's an interesting stat. The two most sacked QBs in the league: 

Sam Howell - 24

Justin Fields - 17

 

We've already talked about playing Arizona Denver Buffalo and Philadelphia

 

Chicago has played GB (4), TB (6), KC (3), DEN (4)

So this dude can get got. Lets have a race to the QB.  

[goskins10]

Catching up a few narratives: 

 

Going for 2 - The same people cruxcifying Ron for NOT going for 2 are the same ones that would cruxcify him for gonig for it if they failed. It was judgement call. You have to trust the person in the room. I was 50/50 WOukld have been OK either way. 

 

Play Taylor H in 2 weeks - I will be at the game and all I can say is: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL 7 in the box and dare him to throw. 

 

Going for it on 4th and 5 - You have a Probowl punter. Use him Just so happens he has his one bad kick in 3 yrs, then. Last week people complianed Ron went for it not using Way. Now they don;t want Way to punt.  LOL  **** happens. 

 

Defense - Yes, the D has started slow but they played two teams in the Bills and Eagles that score in bunches. And I see them getting better. 

 

Forbes getting jobbed by AB - AB is likely a future HOF WR. And Forbes did have a few passes defenced and came close to a pick. He took his lumps yest but this is game 4 in his NFL career. He will learn from it. 

 

A saw a few (granted only a few) suggesting Terry M was just good not great. Silly take at best. Terry is a great WR. He and Howell will continue to bond. But in fairness there are several other mouths to feed. AS they whow they can get open they will not be able to double Terry as much. Dude is literally amazing. 

 

Defense will get better. They have to . 

 

This was a big game for the entire team., Great way to bounce back after last week debacle. Face it, we all felt like another major beatdown was imminent. But they hung in there like ahomand almost won. Good on em!!

 

 

 

 

 

[method man]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Barring an injury I don't see the Falcons benching Ridder.  They are doing an experiment kind of like we are with Howell.  

 

I think the bar is probably lower for Arthur Smith to stick around. He probably needs to make the playoffs and he is ok is my guess

[zCommander]

Looks like some of you have a short term memory. TH tends to play hot when he comes off the bench for a game or two but fizzles if playing more than 4 games. So, I wouldn't look past that. Our D can be bad at scrambling ability of a QB. TH will do everything he can to keep himself relevant in the NFL. 

 

Regardless, I really don't see the Falcons benching Ridder. They drafted him. They need to see if he is going to be part of their future to build around. The QB draft class of 2024 looks good. They might even want to tank with Ridder if they have no confidence in Ridder. 

 

Anyway, I like to see us playing against Ridder though. 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by zCommander

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I disagree.  In the takes I heard from Sheehan, he was overly advocating for Brissett and I think he was just cherishing the possibility of last week being the "real" Howell and being proven right.  I heard it in his podcast with Cooley, which is all I listen to of him now.  

 

 

I listen to everything Sheehan does just about.  He's not really negative on Howell.  He thinks Ron is in a must win season and feels that its tough to win with a young QB right away.  He comes off angnostic about Howell before the season -- mixed.   The main hit from him is the 5th round stuff which is tiresome, I agree.

 

Listening to him right now, gave him an A for yesterday and said he is jazzed about seeing a lot more from him.

 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

Sheehan PROUDLY announced "I gave him an F." Again, petty, intolerable jack hole.    

 

 

After giving him an A the week before and said young QBs have ups and downs and he's not out on Howell.

 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

In what I listened to Cooley on Howell before the season, I think he was concerned about a few things: 1) propensity to hold the ball, 2) size as it relates to taking a pounding because of #1. 3) the unknown because of the system he played in in college. All of which were legitimate concerns.  Last week, Cooley was REALLY hard on Howell because of decision making.  Like, REALLY REALLY hard on him.  He put 6 sacks on Howell, and went through each play and said where the checkdown was, what he should have done, and which ones were dead easy, and what was really concerning.  He did say he thought a lot of it was correctable.  He also gave Sam a D, D+ for the game, said it was barely a passing grade, but he did enough to get a passing grade, and a lot of his issues were correctable.  He had a lot of "welcome to the NFL" plays he hasn't seen and needs to figure out 

 

 

Cooley also critiized the play calling that week saying Howell was a stationary target behind a bad O line.   He hit the O line multiple times.  Then later in that broadcast admitting some of those sacks were coverage sacks.  Guys weren't open.  And he also said he wasn't discouraged about Howell based on that game.

 

I posted about all of this previously.

16 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Our D can be bad at scrambling ability of a QB.

 

 

Not so much scrambiling but QBs who run.  Heinicke doesn't run.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I listen to everything Sheehan does just about.  He's not really negative on Howell.  He thinks Ron is in a must win season and feels that its tough to win with a young QB right away.  He comes off angnostic about Howell before the season -- mixed.   The main hit from him is the 5th round stuff which is tiresome, I agree.

 

Listening to him right now, gave him an A for yesterday and said he is jazzed about seeing a lot more from him.

 

 

After giving him an A the week before and said young QBs have ups and downs and he's not out on Howell.

 

 

Cooley also critiized the play calling that week saying Howell was a stationary target behind a bad O line.   He hit the O line multiple times.  Then later in that broadcast admitting some of those sacks were coverage sacks.  Guys weren't open.  And he also said he wasn't discouraged about Howell based on that game.

 

I posted about all of this previously.

 

Not so much scrambiling but QBs who run.  Heinicke doesn't run.

I listen to most of the Sheehan stuff too and I one of my most positive people on Twitter told me that I am negative on Sheehan based on how unwilling to be positive Sheehan will be.

 

Like the entire offseason, Sheehan REFUSED to allow callers to talk about this exact scenario. Where the defense was having problems coming together, problems with moble QBs, problems with the big plays, and big runs, etc. And we're kept alive by our young QB. He kept going to the stats - 5th round QB, number of times its happened, how many of them in the league right now are starting. The Dallas game didnt mean anything? You guys are really convinved after a meaningless game? 

 

So occasionally I'll poke him on Twitter and say "are you on the bandwagon yet" "these aren't Kirk-like numbers against prevent defense" "You gonna start calling him the comeback kid" and others are saying that he wasn't as negative as I heard, but it seemed like - not that he was wishing for Howell to fail - (and I do think it was a good get for him to interview Howell) but that anytime a caller calls in with hope and optimism for Howell he's like calm down sonny this is a defensive team thats gonna carry us this year. 

 

We're seeing right now that's not true. We're going as far as Howell can carry us. And I listen to Sheehan's podcasts so I haven't heard it yet but if he finally agrees then good, if not then he's gonna keep barking up the wrong tree. 

[FootballZombie]

Bring on Heinie. All he has ever done is live up to his namesake. Let him hurt some other team for once.

 

Man will put his leg thru his apartment window before he faces our D-line tho.

Edited October 2, 2023 by FootballZombie

[Warhead36]

Oh man our D would be licking its chops facing Heinicke. They literally will hand the ball off to Robinson and Allgier every play.

[Captain James]

We can has Quarterback??

[The Consigliere]

15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, so it's Howell based in combination to your thought with a roster built to win now. 

 

If I felt that way I'd give Ron a break.  If I felt he built the roster the right way and all you needed is the QB -- in Ron's defense what other QB was he going to acquire this off season?

 

And I get your point on the QB its not that you are per se that down on Howell but you are down on a loaded roster in your mind being held up by a QB who likely will have some growing pains. 

 

Personally, I don't think he's built the roster in the right way.  Too many draft picks-too much money staggered on defensive unit in an offensive league -- a IMO below par O line, etc.   And too many bad decisions in general.  And this draft isn't looking hot at least in the context of 2023.  So that's why i am out on Ron. 

 

But if I felt he got it cooking with everything but the QB situation for this season, I'd be cool with Ron for the most part if I saw it that way which I don't.  But again to each their own.

 

 

 

Imagine Howell with the Eagles O line or a struggiling rookie CB lets say covering Terry?  When Hurts had to make big plays, he often had that time to do it and receivers were open.

 

I agree we need a bigger sample size but if it keeps going on this track -- a new regime next off season who Eagles style knows how to press the gas and build a roster with some urgency -- and this could be an 11-12 win team IMO.

 

Me, too

 

Part of this is logic for me, sample size, and part of this is like as that posters moniker suggests, a kind of battered fan syndrome, after 30 years of this, just not believing that it could finally end so suddenly w/us getting that good fortune that hits only about once or twice a decade (hitting on a franchise QB on day 3). 

 

I'm not sure what direction to go. But it's funny. I looked through the '22 draft thread to remind myself of my good and bad takes (like the painful PTSD of looking through past trades over five year windows in dynasty, some genius, some disastrous), and it was interesting, things I noticed (very sollipsistic):

 

1. Boy was I high on the '21 class that looks terrible now and I was so beyond pissed with us passing on Fields, who just is a bust at this point, have to admit, whats happened with Mac is very surprising to me. In general, my read on that class was Lawrence was Luck 2.0, Fields was 1A to Lawrence (no he aint), Wilson was an obvious bust (1 of 2 things I got right), Lance was a high risk, high upside guy (kinda right, kinda wrong), and Mac was a high floor, low ceiling maybe Carr level guy if everything broke right, he's nowhere near that and im shocked, even though I didn't love the guy.

 

2. I was spot on with everything in that '22 class other than my Malik Willis love, which I'm still totally fine with, Willis actually looked a lot better this offseason and he was always a high celing mega low floor dice roll. Just very surprised at how far he fell with his ceiling. Very happy the other guy I was buying all along was Howell as a target. I think a lot of the board liked Howell best if we didn't get a QB in round 1 which is one of the reason's Howell's performance is a bit of a lovefest. Some liked Pickett, some didn't (me), some liked Corrall some didn't (I liked him), some liked Willis, some didn't (I did), but all of us recognized the class was yucky, and if we didn't go QB in round 1 but got one on day 2 or 3 we'd be using value much better, when we got Howell, who a lot of us liked with a day 2 pick in round 5 there were celebrations in the draft thread but I think recognition that this was a Hakel zone pick which only had potential because the QB room in house was a total ---- show, a disaster in Wentz who'd played himself off QB needy rosters in back to back seasons in '20 and '21, and then a feel good story that was only that in Heinickie. So I think the board recognized that if things broke right, Howell would get his chance in '22 and '23, and he'd have a small window (a few starts in '22, maybe a chance to win the job in '23, and then keep it with his play in the first 6 weeks of '23), and if it didn't, we'd reload for a solid '24 class. 

 

 

Right now, it's a real interesting road in front of us. The schedule is murderous. We aren't making the playoffs with this OL and this inexplicably bad defense (boy they invested a ton in it only for it to be ----), will Howell play well enough for us to focus on OL in the draft and FA, or will we need to go after QB in probably the 2nd best class since '17-'18? Not sure. Howell needs to find it within himself but he could. So far so, so good, raw #'s in 5 starts are an above average QB. 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Here's the thing: we're not gonna be picking high enough to draft Williams or Maye. Just look at how atrocious some of these other teams are. We aren't bad. At worst we'll finish around 8 wins. Best case is 10-11 wins.

 

Since that's the case, I'd rather have Howell on a rookie contract for a couple more years and stack the team around him then mortgage our future to trade up for a guy(who you still don't know will be any good, look at how bad Bryce Young has been so far this year) OR draft a guy who might be 4th or 5th best in his class.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Warhead36

[The Consigliere]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

not everyone wanted him benched.

 

Anyone who did was either way too reactionary or a fan of the previous QB.

People wanted Howell benched?!?! (I'm in Reno/Lake Tahoe so don't hear your local media). 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

People wanted Howell benched?!?! (I'm in Reno/Lake Tahoe so don't hear your local media). 

There were some on here yes. One person even said it was the worst QB performance from this team he's ever seen which was such a joke of a take considering I can probably think of at least five that were worse since just 2018.

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The metrics say it's not even a 50/50 chance to convert a 2-point conversion.  So you're being a bit bullish on the odds there.  Also, I don't think THIS offense has figured out short yardage yet.  They tried the Logan Thomas thing twice, they've tried to run it, pass it, and none of it has been especially effective or repeatable.  

 

 

Brian Robinson is 6' 1" and 230. Has EB considered lining up Robinson 5 yards behind an under centre Sam Howell and handing it off to him? Possibly with say Thomas lined up as a full back to provide a lead block? Lets not overthink this.

 

I realize this is somewhat old school ...

[kingdaddy]

 

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

Looks like some of you have a short term memory. TH tends to play hot when he comes off the bench for a game or two but fizzles if playing more than 4 games. So, I wouldn't look past that. Our D can be bad at scrambling ability of a QB. TH will do everything he can to keep himself relevant in the NFL. 

 

Regardless, I really don't see the Falcons benching Ridder. They drafted him. They need to see if he is going to be part of their future to build around. The QB draft class of 2024 looks good. They might even want to tank with Ridder if they have no confidence in Ridder. 

 

Anyway, I like to see us playing against Ridder though. 

 

TH is 12-12-1 career as a starter and has beaten guys by the name of Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Jalen Hurts, just to name a few. I'd much rather see Ridder than TH even though neither really scares me. I do know that TH  getting the ball to Pitts and London is much more likely than Ridder doing so. Like him or hate him he's a bigger threat against us than Ridder is right now. They were just talking about this on Sirius radio about how long will Atlanta stay with Ridder given that their division is so winnable because it is so weak? In a win now league maybe Art Smith goes to the bullpen earlier than people think he will? Guess we'll find out soon enough.

Changing the subject a bit, I seriously wish we would trade Brissett if there is interest in him. Getting a pick for him would be nice considering we're likely gonna lose him after the season anyway. Who knows, getting a 3rd or 4th round pick for Brissett might lead into a starting offensive lineman or trade collateral to package with another pick to move up?

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 Heinicke doesn't run.

 

Well not for us when it mattered the most. He did in the beginning and then started to protect himself so we wouldn't get hurt and end up back on his sister couch. If they bench Ridder for the whole year then yes he might not run at all. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

 

TH is 12-12-1 career as a starter and has beaten guys by the name of Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Jalen Hurts, just to name a few. I'd much rather see Ridder than TH even though neither really scares me. I do know that TH  getting the ball to Pitts and London is much more likely than Ridder doing so. Like him or hate him he's a bigger threat against us than Ridder is right now. They were just talking about this on Sirius radio about how long will Atlanta stay with Ridder given that their division is so winnable because it is so weak? In a win now league maybe Art Smith goes to the bullpen earlier than people think he will? Guess we'll find out soon enough.

Changing the subject a bit, I seriously wish we would trade Brissett if there is interest in him. Getting a pick for him would be nice considering we're likely gonna lose him after the season anyway. Who knows, getting a 3rd or 4th round pick for Brissett might lead into a starting offensive lineman or trade collateral to package with another pick to move up?

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I listen to most of the Sheehan stuff too and I one of my most positive people on Twitter told me that I am negative on Sheehan based on how unwilling to be positive Sheehan will be.

 

 

You just said you just listen to his podcasts with Cooley.   Unless I misundersood you?  I listen to him everyday and very rarely miss his shows including just now.

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I 

 

Like the entire offseason, Sheehan REFUSED to allow callers to talk about this exact scenario. Where the defense was having problems coming together, problems with moble QBs, problems with the big plays, and big runs, etc. And we're kept alive by our young QB. He kept going to the stats - 5th round QB, number of times its happened, how many of them in the league right now are starting. The Dallas game didnt mean anything? You guys are really convinved after a meaningless game? 

 

So occasionally I'll poke him on Twitter and say "are you on the bandwagon yet" "these aren't Kirk-like numbers against prevent defense" "You gonna start calling him the comeback kid" and others are saying that he wasn't as negative as I heard, but it seemed like - not that he was wishing for Howell to fail - (and I do think it was a good get for him to interview Howell) but that anytime a caller calls in with hope and optimism for Howell he's like calm down sonny this is a defensive team thats gonna carry us this year. 

 

We're seeing right now that's not true. We're going as far as Howell can carry us. And I listen to Sheehan's podcasts so I haven't heard it yet but if he finally agrees then good, if not then he's gonna keep barking up the wrong tree. 

 

He's back and forth on Howell.   He has said a zillion times he just doesn't know.  He's argued with some who said they do know one way or another -- positive and negative.  There are some callers (granted not today) who call him who are negative on Howell.

 

I've hit him on some of his positions on QB.  I am certainly not afraid to do it.  But if I hit him on Howell, it would be that he seems to think taking the Switzerland position is the high ground here.  But to me its wishy washy.     And when he hits Howell he loved the 5th round pick rap which to me is lame.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You just said you just listen to his podcasts with Cooley.   Unless I misundersood you?  I listen to him everyday and very rarely miss his shows including just now.

 

 

He's back and forth on Howell.   He has said a zillion times he just doesn't know.  He's argued with some who said they do know one way or another -- positive and negative.  There are some callers (granted not today) who call him who are negative on Howell.

 

I've hit him on some of his positions on QB.  I am certainly not afraid to do it.  But if I hit him on Howell, it would be that he seems to think taking the Switzerland position is the high ground here.  But to me its wishy washy.     And when he hits Howell he loved the 5th round pick rap which to me is lame.

Yeah I listen to his shows and his podcasts, but not live. i listen (download) and listen at 2x. 

 

I have listened to him today and he seems more positive so he's an easy listen today. Some days he's a difficult listen. Honestly, during the summer I have to fast forward through some parts of those shows and just listen to an audo books later because he is so negative. Its just not my cup of tea. Its the same as when he would have weeks and weeks worth of shows devoted towards the name. I'd just fast forward because I'm not interested. Same with all the gambling stuff now. 

 

He says he's back and forth but his words don't match his actions.

1) He goes and cites that a 5th rounder can't make it (or the number of 5th rounders who are starting in the league right now or since 2000 or whatever the stat Ben Standig quoted was) - that's being negative. But he never quoted anything to try to balance that. That's no being balanced.

2) The stuff about this team being a defense led team and having a top ten defense and all that being what we were what we were going to lean on. That's a negative shot at Howell. So when callers pointed out comps and similarities and things he did in college and in his Dallas game film and even in the preseason, he was quick to dismiss them and act as if it was nothing. So what can we use? his opinion? It was frustrating?

3) This was a QB who was highly scouted and dropped to the 5th round and anytime a caller brings that up, he dismisses it and talks about other QBs that either dropped or were highly scouted. Thats being negative. 

 

See a pattern? It was so frustrating in the summer time before training camp before games were played because he is probably the most knowledgable guy on radio but he was so dismissive of Howell. I'm glad he's not the coach of the team though. 

 

It doesn't matter though. He's just a fan like you or me. Given he has a radio show, but you and I are on this message board. I just hope Howell continues to win games and inspire fans. 

[Koolblue13]

The fact that the Hive is showing up alive and well is making this monday so much better.