Bench Heinicke???

[Renegade7]

21 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

We're just not going to see eye to eye on this. That's ok. I contend that 2020 was a step backward in the big picture as it relates to a rebuild. 

 

I can dig it, keep the faith : )

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

It does not take five years to change culture. This isn't the 80s.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

It does not take five years to change culture. This isn't the 80s.

Yep I’d agree. I would hope his actual aim is closer to the three than the five.

[Renegade7]

Culture as ratchet as ours top to bottom, i dont know if he can by himself, let alone 3-5 years.  He's got to be talking about more then jus the football team...

[CobraCommander]

27 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Culture as ratchet as ours top to bottom, i dont know if he can by himself, let alone 3-5 years.  He's got to be talking about more then jus the football team...

A leopard can't change its spots. Snyder is the culture. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

20 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Paging @Spaceman Spiff

 

He's not great.  That dude is so beat up and past his prime.

 

I mean, he'd probably be a better QB than what we have.  And Ren, I know you can't fathom the fact of tanking for a better draft pick and I find that admirable.  I understand why you'd want him but at the end of the day he's just another stop-gap that doesn't move us to a better place in the future.  Regardless of how many games we'd win with him, we still have to find a long term solution.  

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Something I think everybody needs to remember is TH is a backup QB.  That’s not a label I’m placing on him.  He was the backup behind Fitz.  He had the entire off season to convince Ron and Scott to give him a shot with the starters and he never did.  
 

He played admirably against Tampa.  But he’s the backup of this team and the only reason he’s playing is because Fitz is hurt.  
 

Adk yourself this:  if any team in the NFL lost their starting QB in the first half of the first game, would they be able to be as competitive as if they hadn’t?

 

The answer is probably not.  So what we’re seeing with TH is what happens when you have a backup playing. 
 

We’re there some who thought he could be the answer as a starter? Yes. Did we get the answer to that question? Yes.  
 

I think in a lot of ways, the step back this season is due to the fact we have a backup QB starting, and Ron knew this, which is why they went out and got Fitz.

 

The defense is another story.  But the offense hasn’t been good in weeks. And a lot of that has to do with the QB.

 

I see no reason to switch to Kyle Allen, though.  He’s also a backup.  He could be slightly better than TH, or slightly worse.  But there’s no reason to flip backups.

 

Unless Fitz is ready to come back, there’s no reason to change QBs at this point.
 

 

 

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

I’m having HineyHiney withdrawals after the bye week. So, I’m gonna spend a couple hours this afternoon throwing a beach ball at the dogs in the backyard to get that feeling again.

 

Should be fun!

[bowhunter]

On 11/2/2021 at 1:10 PM, Renegade7 said:

 

I can dig it, keep the faith : )

 

 

 

Sadly there's another side to this coin. Most of our young guys were winners, came from thoroughbred programs and seldom ever lost a game. Whether that be Ohio, Alabama, or Susans school of cosmetology. They are used to winning and losses were difficult to accept. What happens after 3-5 years of this??

[Renegade7]

19 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Sadly there's another side to this coin. Most of our young guys were winners, came from thoroughbred programs and seldom ever lost a game. Whether that be Ohio, Alabama, or Susans school of cosmetology. They are used to winning and losses were difficult to accept. What happens after 3-5 years of this??

 

So many NFL players go through this that i don't know how to care.  Be professional, do your part, dont fall into the we're losing why bother trap.

[Warhead36]

It doesn't take 3-5 years to rebuild. 2 years maximum if you find the right QB. Look at the Bengals, Chargers, Browns, Cardinals etc.

[CjSuAvE22]

On 11/2/2021 at 8:18 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

 
 

Adk yourself this:  if any team in the NFL lost their starting QB in the first half of the first game, would they be able to be as competitive as if they hadn’t?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fitzpatrick is also an NFL back up qb. So Heinicke was a back to a backup.

[PartyPosse]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

It doesn't take 3-5 years to rebuild. 2 years maximum if you find the right QB. Look at the Bengals, Chargers, Browns, Cardinals etc.

Bengals have been a sub 500 team for 4+ years now. Rebuilding doesn’t just start when you hit rock bottom. Same with Arizona and Cleveland. Chargers never had a rebuild.

[mistertim]

29 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Fitzpatrick is also an NFL back up qb. So Heinicke was a back to a backup.

 

Eh I wouldn't necessarily call Fitz a backup. He's been in that position several times, but he's also been brought in and been the starter several times. He's a bit of an odd duck in a league where QBs usually cement themselves as either a starter or a backup within their first 2-3 years.

[88Comrade2000]

Ron blew it on so many levels.  The big thing, his QB roster was full of backups and you can't compete in  the modern NFL that way. Then he misjudged how good the defense really was. Ron is dreaming if he thinks he will get 5 years to build his so called culture.  

 

If we do finish with 5 or fewer wins, there's no guarantee than Dan doesn't eat the contract and move on. We don't know who's whispering in Dan's ear. Yeah, post Ron it will be a return to a new puppet buddy and Dan making first round picks and signing big name free agents. Rinse and repeat. Dan did say, he plans to be more involved and we already know what that means.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

We will always having a loosing culture till we have a franchise QB. It doesn’t really matter who the coach is.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Fitzpatrick is also an NFL back up qb. So Heinicke was a back to a backup.

Well, he wsn't THIS team's backup.  He was this team's starter.  And they brought him in because they knew he was better than TH and Kyle Allen.  

 

I think, at least based on the last 2 years, Fitz proved he was at least deserving of one of the 32 starting jobs in the NFL.  

 

TH is not deserving of that.  

[Koolblue13]

I'm picking up what Ron is putting down. He said last year was just an evaluation year. This year we have our GMs, scouting department and are getting started on the rebuild all at the same time of the FO disaster which was already cleaned out of the rotten personnel and the name change. It's a huge restart of this franchise and it's going to take time. He didn't exactly take over a class organization coming off championship years. I'm good with the patience and I hope we can keep some continuity within our coaching and FO for years to come.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

The big thing, his QB roster was full of backups and you can't compete in  the modern NFL that way.

But here's the question: We don't KNOW how this offense would have functioned with Fitz because he was hurt right away.  We've played the entire year with our backup QB.  Who didn't even push Fitz in camp.  

 

Ron went out to get Matt Stafford, but based on the fact the Rams wanted him and traded multiple firsts and Goff for him, it wasn't going to happen.  Any price we would have had to have paid to get Stafford would have been mocked.  

 

The idea of trading up in the draft, they would have had to go to #9 to get fields.  10 was Dallas and 11 were the Giants, neither of whom are going to trade with Washington for a QB.  19 to 9 is a big jump. Should they have given up a 2022 1st, probably the 2021 second, and probably the 2023 first, because it would have taken something like that, multiple firsts and another pick to move from 19 to 9) for Fields?  I guess if you just LOVE him, then maybe?  I don't know, I'm not sure I would take that chance.  Because if it doesn't work out, you're really hamstrung on what you can do down the road to fix it.  

 

They could have gone to 13 or 14 to get Jones.  MAYBE.  If the other team was willing to trade. Should they have?  Dunno.  Maybe?  Depends on what you think of Jones.

 

Who else was there in Free Agency?  Mitch? Trade for Mariotta (backup). Trade with the Eagles for Wentz?  

 

Russ, Rodgers and Watson were not available.  Some have said to they should have tried for Carr.  Ok.  But I don't think he was really available either.  

 

The fact is Fitz was the most "sure thing" on the market aside from Stafford, and they swung for Stafford and didn't get him.  I'm not sure what else they could have done.

 

But I will say I would have liked to have seen what the offense looked like with Fitz.  I think it would have been a lot better than with TH.  But we'll never know.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm picking up what Ron is putting down. He said last year was just an evaluation year. This year we have our GMs, scouting department and are getting started on the rebuild all at the same time of the FO disaster which was already cleaned out of the rotten personnel and the name change. It's a huge restart of this franchise and it's going to take time. He didn't exactly take over a class organization coming off championship years. I'm good with the patience and I hope we can keep some continuity within our coaching and FO for years to come.

The big issue with this year is the regression of the defense and Fitz getting hurt in quarter 2 of the first game.  

 

I'm not entirely sure why the defense has regressed to the level it has.  It's not all on personnel.   I have a theory (which I've posted before) that basically they screwed with the chemistry on the defense in an attempt to upgrade the talent and it blew up in their faces.  

 

I think if the offense was struggling and the defense was playing well, people wouldn't lose faith.  

 

The problem is, the defense is playing like the south end of a north bound skunk.  It's just terrible.  And because of it, everything is being questioned.  

[Koolblue13]

21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The big issue with this year is the regression of the defense and Fitz getting hurt in quarter 2 of the first game.  

 

I'm not entirely sure why the defense has regressed to the level it has.  It's not all on personnel.   I have a theory (which I've posted before) that basically they screwed with the chemistry on the defense in an attempt to upgrade the talent and it blew up in their faces.  

 

I think if the offense was struggling and the defense was playing well, people wouldn't lose faith.  

 

The problem is, the defense is playing like the south end of a north bound skunk.  It's just terrible.  And because of it, everything is being questioned.  

I agree with all of that. I think Curl brings a ton of that swagger and him sort of getting benched for Collins took that away. Reaves wasn't good on the field, but a big club house guy. I think that's how they played over their level. It's been getting better since Collins was moved to LBer and WJ got injured. 

 

I understand why fans are pissed and I think theres a lot of things people will be taking back going forward. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I agree with all of that. I think Curl brings a ton of that swagger and him sort of getting benched for Collins took that away. Reaves wasn't good on the field, but a big club house guy. I think that's how they played over their level. It's been getting better since Collins was moved to LBer and WJ got injured. 

 

I understand why fans are pissed and I think theres a lot of things people will be taking back going forward. 

WJIII for Darby

St. Juice for Moreland

Curl out for Collins (early in the year)

Shaze out (granted he ALWAYS gets hurt) and McCain in

 

And they trusted Holcomb and Bostic to hold down the LB fort while Davis developed.

 

It ALL blew up.

 

But the thing is, none of the moves (minus Curl for Collins) really DOESN"T make sense.

 

Darby was ok, but he had an injury history, and WJIII was seen as an upgrade.  And, btw, Darby was hurt again this year, and wasn't having a banner year.  So, maybe it works out if you bring Darby back, but eh, maybe not. 

 

St. Juice looks like he's going to be a player.  I don't understand why they didn't keep Moreland, though.  But you always draft guys, and St. Juice wasn't a bad pick, at least not yet.

 

I have sympathy for the FS decision, when they decided not to really invest in a FS, and just bring in McCain.  Shazer plays 2 games and gets hurt.  He has for years.  So you can't count on him.  McCain, in a vacuum, is an upgrade.  

 

The BIG problem is they let Collins back on the field.  They should have started Curl, and just had Collins come in as a reserve, and work his way back.  But they went all-in with Collins as the starter, and that blew up rather spectacularly.

 

It's just one of those things, they thought they were upgrading, and they inadvertently broke absolutely everything.   

[petey hodge]

just think... we're one offsides penalty away from picking #2 in the draft next year.  Thank you NYG!!!

Edited November 8, 2021 by petey hodge

[CjSuAvE22]

All i know is if we burn a first rounder on Malik Willis im gonna be really disappointed 

[Leonard Washington]

This thread was started one month into the season. If the fans were in charge, half the team would have been cut or traded. The remainder would be intentionally losing games to improve draft position.  Yet many complain about Snyder’s meddling. 
 

 

Strong culture* and building a solid balanced team will create an opportunity for sustainable success.  

*The team has to figure how to push Terry and John as the team leaders instead of a 2nd year player still figuring things out. The team leader needs to be a guy that regularly looks good on tape.