Bench Heinicke???

[tmandoug1]

22 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Whats left of the Hive is turning into a cauldron of excuses.  Everyones fault but his own now, fantastic, hopefully Ron sees throughout it while evaluating over the bye week.

 

Hopefully we trade the 2nd round generational talent for an actual QB.....sound good?

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Hopefully we trade the 2nd round generational talent for an actual QB.....sound good?

 

I'm reading through your likely typo and guess you mean Chase Young?

 

Nah, it doesn't sound good at all. 

 

This is crazy, yo, wow

 

 

What's it going to take?

Edited November 2, 2021 by Renegade7

[tmandoug1]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm reading through your likely typo and guess you mean Chase Young?

 

Nah, it doesn't sound good at all. 

 

This is crazy, yo, wow

 

 

What's it going to take?

Whoops...my bad, 1st round Bosworthesque pick for a better shot at an actual QB that we can all agree on.

Edited November 2, 2021 by tmandoug1

[Renegade7]

Just now, tmandoug1 said:

Whoops...my bad 1st round 2nd pick Bosworthesque pick for a better shot at a QB.

 

Still nah, not buying anyone worth trading up for yet.

[SpacePenguin]

8 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm reading through your likely typo and guess you mean Chase Young?

 

Nah, it doesn't sound good at all. 

 

This is crazy, yo, wow

 

What's it going to take?

 

Sounds like Ron agrees with some of us that draft positioning is all that's left to play for this season. (I'm not saying that a better pick will necessarily help, not with this staff)

Edited November 2, 2021 by SpacePenguin

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, SpacePenguin said:

 

Sounds like Ron agrees with some of us that draft positioning is all that's left to play for this season. (I'm not saying that a better pick will necessarily help, not with this staff)

 

Doubtful, it likely means he sees Kyle Allen everyday and has a different opinion of him then I do.  

[SpacePenguin]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Doubtful, it likely means he sees Kyle Allen everyday and has a different opinion of him then I do.  

 

It could also be that with the entire OL being injured, he doesn't think there would be much of a pocket to play from. Who knows how much mobility Allen retained, after his own injury.

 

They can change the name, but this is still definitely the same franchise. These problems are infinitely cyclical.

Edited November 2, 2021 by SpacePenguin

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I think it's safe to say that Kyle Allen still looks like he did in the preseason.

[CobraCommander]

Just really don't understand why we burned a 5th round pick on a QB we refuse to start. I'm really starting to sour on Rivera. Brought over an entire loser staff from one loser franchise to another. 

[NickyJ]

8 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

Just really don't understand why we burned a 5th round pick on a QB we refuse to start. I'm really starting to sour on Rivera. Brought over an entire loser staff from one loser franchise to another. 

To be fair, the 5th round pick is what bought us the playoff run last year. Kyle beat the Cowboys last year. Alex might not have been ready to roll for it, and Haskins probably wouldn't have been able to do it. Was a 5th round pick worth a wild card berth? I'll leave that to someone else to decide.

[CobraCommander]

9 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

To be fair, the 5th round pick is what bought us the playoff run last year. Kyle beat the Cowboys last year. Alex might not have been ready to roll for it, and Haskins probably wouldn't have been able to do it. Was a 5th round pick worth a wild card berth? I'll leave that to someone else to decide.

I will be the decider. It was not worth it. Making the playoffs last year has made everything so much worse. From a harder schedule to reaching for a 2nd day linebacker. Also, is it really a playoff run if you're one and done?

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Florgon79 said:

I will be the decider. It was not worth it. Making the playoffs last year has made everything so much worse. From a harder schedule to reaching for a 2nd day linebacker. Also, is it really a playoff run if you're one and done?

 

A lot went on last year off the field that any type of winning was needed to help Rivera get the credibility he needed to do this turn around he was hired for. 

 

I'm not sure what the future holds, but he'd have less to work with had he had a losing season, from the respect of his players, to Snyder possibly breathing down his throat. We had enough drama in 2020, losing wouldn't of made it any better.

 

All things being equal, this is likely still a losing team in 2021 with a last place schedule with Taylor being QB.  That may have got us to the playoffs last year, but it won't win the division this year.

[Thinking Skins]

I'm telling you. Kyle Allen is still hurt. Dude didn't look good in the preseason and under emergency he could probably play but they don't want to risk

[CobraCommander]

21 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

A lot went on last year off the field that any type of winning was needed to help Rivera get the credibility he needed to do this turn around he was hired for. 

 

I'm not sure what the future holds, but he'd have less to work with had he had a losing season, from the respect of his players, to Snyder possibly breathing down his throat. We had enough drama in 2020, losing wouldn't of made it any better.

 

All things being equal, this is likely still a losing team in 2021 with a last place schedule with Taylor being QB.  That may have got us to the playoffs last year, but it won't win the division this year.

I’m just laughing at the notion that we didn’t have a losing season when we lost 10 out of 17 games. 

[88Comrade2000]

21 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

A lot went on last year off the field that any type of winning was needed to help Rivera get the credibility he needed to do this turn around he was hired for. 

 

I'm not sure what the future holds, but he'd have less to work with had he had a losing season, from the respect of his players, to Snyder possibly breathing down his throat. We had enough drama in 2020, losing wouldn't of made it any better.

 

All things being equal, this is likely still a losing team in 2021 with a last place schedule with Taylor being QB.  That may have got us to the playoffs last year, but it won't win the division this year.

That winning sure helped us this year.

 

That winning took us out of getting qb.   We went into the season with a 38 year old journeyman backup QB, who last one game.  2 backup QB on the roster.   The so called great defensive play, went to the heads of some of those defense players.  Chase & Montez were saying they would break sack records this year.  When in reality, the defense wasn't as good as adverstised.  That great 2020 defense,  came because they faced mostly weak opponents. Many of those opponents were on their backup QBs.  Other than Pittsburgh, what good team did that defense do good against?  When they faced Tampa in the playoffs, they were torn to shreads and we seen just how bad that defense was.

 

 

2 years in, this team isn't any better and frankly is probably worse.

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I’m just laughing at the notion that we didn’t have a losing season when we lost 10 out of 17 games. 

 

Thats all you took from my post?  Our coach had cancer last year, that was huge our team rallying around him to get into the playoffs.  It might not matter to you, but it does matter.

[CobraCommander]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

Thats all you took from my post?  Our coach had cancer last year, that was huge our team rallying around him to get into the playoffs.  It might not matter to you, but it does matter.

I mean, I never tried to downplay Ron's cancer so not sure that's fair. But I still stand by my position that making the playoffs last year hurt this rebuild more than it helped. 

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

That winning sure helped us this year.

 

You play to win the game, man.

 

11 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

That winning took us out of getting qb. 

 

Which QB would you have drafted?  Three went 1,2,3. 

 

11 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

 We went into the season with a 38 year old journeyman backup QB, who last one game.  2 backup QB on the roster.   The so called great defensive play, went to the heads of some of those defense players.  Chase & Montez were saying they would break sack records this year.  When in reality, the defense wasn't as good as adverstised.  That great 2020 defense,  came because they faced mostly weak opponents. Many of those opponents were on their backup QBs.  Other than Pittsburgh, what good team did that defense do good against?  When they faced Tampa in the playoffs, they were torn to shreads and we seen just how bad that defense was.

 

I'm not seeing how have a record to get a top 5 pick would've changed that.  You saying its a hunger issue because we went 7-9, or we weren't that good in the first place?

 

11 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

 

2 years in, this team isn't any better and frankly is probably worse.

 

Worse then Grudens last season? I disagree. We took a step back, I agree, its jus hard to say what could've been with this offense if Fitz didn't get hurt.  The entire oline is gone now, we are losing for different reasons.

[FootballZombie]

28 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm telling you. Kyle Allen is still hurt. Dude didn't look good in the preseason and under emergency he could probably play but they don't want to risk

 

My only argument to that is if this was the case, we would have another QB on the roster by now.

 

We knew Fitz would be out for a while. If Allen is too injured to start, that would just leave us with an injury prone TH and not much else. No way you could go week in and week out banking on this guys health alone.

 

Allen may not be 100%, but he has to be at least healthy enough to be confidently inserted into the starting lineup, otherwise securing a new emergency vet QB would need to happen yesterday

Edited November 2, 2021 by FootballZombie

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I mean, I never tried to downplay Ron's cancer so not sure that's fair. But I still stand by my position that making the playoffs last year hurt this rebuild more than it helped. 

 

 Because of draft picks?  I maintain that the culture and environment of the team has a massive impact on incoming rookies.  Even now half his questions during press conferences are off-field, hes shielding his team from a lot of BS up top.

[CobraCommander]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

 Because of draft picks?  I maintain that the culture and environment of the team has a massive impact on incoming rookies.  Even now half his questions during press conferences are off-field, hes shielding his team from a lot of BS up top.

Because of draft picks but also because of the overall plan when you have certain picks. I don't think we try to get a stopgap QB like Fitzpatrick had we missed out on the playoffs. Maybe we go with a different QB all together, maybe we would have drafted one. Overall the plan would've been completely different, the expectations would've been completely different. Ron himself told the Junkies he wish they hadn't won.

 

“You almost want to say, ‘I wish 7-9 last year wouldn’t have been good enough to win the division,'' Rivera said via 106.7 the Fan’s The Sports Junkies. "That way expectations would have been much lower and it would have been a little bit easier.''

 

If Ron is saying it, I'm saying it. For a myriad of reasons including draft position, making the playoffs with a losing record hurt this rebuild. 

 

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

Because of draft picks but also because of the overall plan when you have certain picks. I don't think we try to get a stopgap QB like Fitzpatrick had we missed out on the playoffs. Maybe we go with a different QB all together, maybe we would have drafted one. Overall the plan would've been completely different, the expectations would've been completely different. Ron himself told the Junkies he wish they hadn't won.

 

No idea what the plan would've been, but the pressure would've been higher then it is right now.  Which I dont trust Snyder with.

 

3 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

“You almost want to say, ‘I wish 7-9 last year wouldn’t have been good enough to win the division,'' Rivera said via 106.7 the Fan’s The Sports Junkies. "That way expectations would have been much lower and it would have been a little bit easier.''

 

If Ron is saying it, I'm saying it. For a myriad of reasons including draft position, making the playoffs with a losing record hurt this rebuild. 

 

 

When he said that, I cringed, he shouldn't of said that, invalidates all the hard work his team did for him last year.  

 

Again, who would we have drafted if we didn't make the playoffs?  The first 3 picks were QBs, and if we didn't trade up for Matt Jones, what makes anyone think we would've traded up into that cluster at the top?

46 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm telling you. Kyle Allen is still hurt. Dude didn't look good in the preseason and under emergency he could probably play but they don't want to risk

 

Ron is saying he's 100% healthy, but doesn't want to do a QB merry-go-round this year

[CobraCommander]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

No idea what the plan would've been, but the pressure would've been higher then it is right now.  Which I dont trust Snyder with.

 

 

When he said that, I cringed, he shouldn't of said that, invalidates all the hard work his team did for him last year.  

 

Again, who would we have drafted if we didn't make the playoffs?  The first 3 picks were QBs, and if we didn't trade up for Matt Jones, what makes anyone think we would've traded up into that cluster at the top?

I don't know who we would've drafted. Maybe we could've had Micah Parsons instead of Jamin Davis. That's a huge upgrade for a group that sorely needs it. We probably wouldn't be banking on Heinicke to be our Number 2 since he never would have had the chance to play hero ball in the playoff game. It changes everything and yet I have no clue what the actual outcome would have been because we're not in that timeline. Somehow we are perpetually stuck on the darkest timeline, I know that much. I know the expectations for this team would be a bit higher than 6 and 10 had we lost the last game. I know that we would have an easier schedule to boot. Instead were looking down the barrel of a 4 win season, max. We are most likely, but not definitely, worse off.

 

 

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I don't know who we would've drafted. Maybe we could've had Micah Parsons instead of Jamin Davis. That's a huge upgrade for a group that sorely needs it.

 

Usually when I hear we need higher picks its for a QB, but suggesting we couldve or should've added another yet different 1st round pick to outperforming defense?  Given our secondary issues, likely negligible difference.  We still don't know what we have in Jamin yet, jua that he's struggling as rookie, very early.

 

6 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

 

We probably wouldn't be banking on Heinicke to be our Number 2 since he never would have had the chance to play hero ball in the playoff game.

 

#2, if in your scenario hes not starting at all this year, then why does that matter and who is?

 

6 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

 

It changes everything and yet I have no clue what the actual outcome would have been because we're not in that timeline. Somehow we are perpetually stuck on the darkest timeline, I know that much. I know the expectations for this team would be a bit higher than 6 and 10 had we lost the last game. I know that we would have an easier schedule to boot.

 

 

There's no way to tell if the teams we faced were going to be bad because just because of 2020.  The divisions we play each year is a set rotation, we're talking 2-3 games max difference here.

 

6 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

 

Instead were looking down the barrel of a 4 win season, max. We are most likely, but not definitely, worse off.

 

Again, debatable, and so far how this is going I still don't agree with you.  Too many what ifs and revisionist history.  I didn't mean to come across like you didn't care about Rivera getting cancer, btw. We overcame a lot last year, and if with this step backwards, 2020 was huge step forward in the big picture of the rebuild.  Think macro, not micro.

 

[CobraCommander]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Again, debatable, and so far how this is going I still don't agree with you.  Too many what ifs and revisionist history.  I didn't mean to come across like you didn't care about Rivera getting cancer, btw. We overcame a lot last year, and if with this step backwards, 2020 was huge step forward in the big picture of the rebuild.  Think macro, not micro.

 

We're just not going to see eye to eye on this. That's ok. I contend that 2020 was a step backward in the big picture as it relates to a rebuild.