Next Day Thread (Same Day Edition): WTF vs. New Orleans

[NoCalMike]

I think what frustrated me the most in today's game versus the other losses is that today the defense actually had some good stops/containments at times, but lacked the consistency to perform that entire game.  

 

It felt like a game the Saints were ready to lose until WFT just kept wasting opportunities over and over.  

 

Winston & Heinicke looked like 2 back up journeymen QBs battling out there, and tbh I think Winston looked mostly awful against the defense, but made a couple big throws that determined the game.  The TD at half time just can't happen.  I don't care if you "weren't ready" because there were plenty of defenders down there in the endzone and in postion and not one of them made much of an effort to disrupt the ball from being caught.

 

Taylor Heinicke.  He's not the guy, my friends.  His phyisical limitations are further emphasized each week because of more film being made available.  It's effecting how the secondary is covering, and is allowing them to play a lot more loose and aggressive.  

 

I am kind of baffled with the mistakes the defense are making.  We know it's miscommunications and missed assignments, but Jack Del Rio also seems to know this, so what is it during practice that is making him confident, that ends up not happening in games which ends ups angering him so much like he didn't see it coming.

 

Just....ugh.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I thought on a whole that this was our best effort of the season. And that’s really sad. 

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

They also had mistakes tho and boneheaded plays, we didn't look like the better team either half imo. 

I dunno. We had like triple their time of possession. More passing yards. More running yards. Forced more turnovers. We gave up two huge plays because we have dumb players and dumb playcallers. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[PolarExpress]

After FINALLY getting rid of Gruden, I am so unimpressed with the coaching staff.  This team is a hot mess.

38 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I dunno. We had like triple their time of possession. More passing yards. More running yards. Forced more turnovers. We gave up two huge plays because we have dumb players and dumb playcallers. 

Yet we lost and looked completely incompetent the entire game.  Get a turnover….yay…but then do nothing with it.  It’s the story of our lives.

[CjSuAvE22]

We are a bad football team, I don't know how people can have hope, imagine on offense if Mclaurin gets hurt whose our number 1? Humphries?...again starting a season with 3 qbs who can't start on any other football team in the league....no improvements made at the linebacker position, we have been duped again with a coaching regime change.....I seriously question Rivera at this point maybe without Cam hes nothing. 

[WTFforLife]

I think everyone should listen to Jon Kliens interview with Logan Paulsen where they take apart our  Defense. Paulsen basically says they are doing nothing, there is no disguise to our defense, it's straight up vanilla. He does not want to admit it on air but basically hes laying blame on RR and JDR.

My take they are both woeful at personnel. RR seems to over value ex-carolina cast offs; they pretended this was a Superbowl team and did next to nothing in the draft. Despite the team needing more impactful talent. They did not move up in the draft to get a true blue chipper nor move down to amass draft picks. As for Jamin Davis alot of fans like him BUT. For a 1st round pick he has to come in and add immediate value and impact something hes not doing. It's fine for a 2nd or 3rd round pick to have the training wheels on for awhile but if your going with guy in the 1st round he should be out there nearly every play impacting the game . Lastly what the hell is wrong with RR and Collins. Collins could not garner a 6th round trade pick at this point yet RR starts him. We could get 10X more value to just trade for a decent safety for a 3rd round pick and sit his poor ass with his gloried Bruce Allen salary till we can cut him.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by WTFforLife

[BleedBNG]

 

 

[El Mexican]

2 hours ago, El Mexican said:

 

Funny you didn't mention we are absolute dead last in the NFL in points scored against our Defense at 31 PPG. 

 

We normally need 8-12 plays to score. Opposing teams go 2-3 plays boom TD! Demoralizing as hell. The current safety situaton is making me nostalgic for the Adam Archuleta / Laron Landry era, by the way. 

 

Two plays and 40 seconds away from 0-5. That's our reality. It's gonna be a long season.

 

 

I stand corrected. We're second to last above KC.

Edited October 11, 2021 by El Mexican

[NoCalMike]

I honestly am not sure why RR was so coveted in the first place.  My best guess was that Gruden was seen as too much of a cupcake when it comes to players and they wanted someone more "serious."

 

I'm a little worried that RR is in a Gibbs 2.0 type of situation.  Is he really back for the long haul to build this franchise up from the ashes of the former regime or did he come here over-valuing the talent thinking he could get a quick turn around?  His health battle might also be affecting his motivation, and I know that is an awful thing to suggest, but you never know when it comes to a life changing event like that, something he will have to constantly monitor and worry about for the rest of his life. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by NoCalMike

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

We need some more cut throat like Bill. He would of cut Collins last season. 

[Dark Acre]

4 hours ago, El Mexican said:

How about Jay Schroedder, Trent Green (drafted by San Diego but basically a rookie when he arrived here) and Kirk Cousins?

 

Talent HAS PASSED through the team, but the coaches/FO always seem to muck-up the QB situation either by internal politics or a poorly managed locker room.

 

The only things Jay Schroeder were good for were:  1) motivating Doug Williams to win SB MVP in a record-setting performance; and 2) being traded for Jim Lachey.

[Wildbunny]

5 hours ago, skins4eva said:

I’ve never been more disappointed with a coaching staff than I am with this one. We were told we had a veteran, experienced staff, but these guys have proven to be completely out to lunch. No one is leading this franchise at the moment—not the head coach, certainly not the owner, and of course not the players. This is a completely rudderless ship, and you see it out on the field every week. 

I would put the OL coach aside from this ****.

 

Guy is seeing his players being injured left and right, and our OL isn't missing a beat.

 

That's one a the few bright spots from sunday.

 

I liked Milne impressive sideline catch. With all our injuries at WR, the guy deserve a shot.

I liked the runs from Carter, 9 and 10 yards, that's good plays.

The limited plays from Patterson where good also.

 

Seems to me the young guys are hungry and deserve more playing time.

Definately.

[Leonard Washington]

5 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

They also had mistakes tho and boneheaded plays, we didn't look like the better team either half imo. 

Winston was getting chewed out after every series at one point, I bet the Saints were leaving points on the table. 

[FrFan]

Kamara killed us on offense, and Lattimore shut down scary Terry. There were too many blown up coverages by the defensive backs. Saints were without McCoy, Armstead, Thomas, Smith, Truffant, and they lost Hill in the first half. Nevertheless we couldn't seize the opportunity. This doesn't bode well for the upcoming games.

[ClaytoAli]

I don’t get that out of all of the position coach’s on this team, there are three D-Backs coaches (most for any position) and the players still screw up their basic roles.

 

How is it that JDR’s son working for the team while he is here.

[Gurgeh]

7 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

...

 

Taylor Heinicke.  He's not the guy, my friends.  His phyisical limitations are further emphasized each week because of more film being made available.  It's effecting how the secondary is covering, and is allowing them to play a lot more loose and aggressive.  

 

I am kind of baffled with the mistakes the defense are making.  We know it's miscommunications and missed assignments, but Jack Del Rio also seems to know this, so what is it during practice that is making him confident, that ends up not happening in games which ends ups angering him so much like he didn't see it coming.

 

Just....ugh.

 

During practice the defense is facing Taylor who we know doesn't play his best when it isn't game day, and as you say has his limitations. If our defense was practicing against someone like Prescott I bet JDR would be a whole lot less confident.

 

But having said that, the problems were evident after week 3 when they had 10 days to fix it and prepare and were still awful. I don't think the problem is that they can't see it, the problem is everyone involved (players and coaches) are living on what they did in the past rather than facing up to the stinking mess they are making in the present.

 

Collins - hasn't been good since he got here, and based on the number of times he's left Jackson hanging in the wind on coverage it seems like he doesn't want to be on the same team as him

Jackson -  prototypical Washington signing, a good player rewarded with a good contract who then collects the dollars and can't be bothered

Fuller - looks like he's simply unsuited to what he's being asked to do, at least compared to last year

JDR - out of football for 3 years and looks out of touch with his players. The defensive problems actually began towards the end of last year (and not just the playoff game) and I suspect the changes made to the secondary were meant to fix them. I don't know how much input JDR had in that, but you'd have to assume it was significant, and it's been a disaster.

 

Incidentally, while I know statistics aren't everything, looking back over JDR's record as DC and HC, his teams have as many bottom 5 pass defences as top 5. Historically it seems his defences were much better against the run.

[fearlessNelms]

Heinicke was bad, defense was bad, coaching was bad...the Team was/is bad. Heinicke has bailed the defense out in our 2 wins, but his reckless, "what the hell is he seeing" throws caught up to him yesterday. 

 

His 2 picks were obviously very costly and I have no idea what he was seeing when he threw those balls. Neither ball should've been thrown and it's a real issue with him. He got away with it last week when Atlanta dropped several would be picks, but he wasn't so fortunate yesterday and it cost us big.

 

As for the D? They're just terrible pretty much across the board- including the coaching- and it is hard to watch. The Saints came into the game without their top 2 receivers and then lost another one early in the game, along with Tasum Hill- one of their key offensive weapons. We still couldn't stop them when we had to and not only is this defense not improving, they're regressing. The fact that we're the worst defense in the league and have given up the most points after 5 games is nothing short of mind boggling.

 

I said in the prediction thread that I thought we'd win, mostly because Jameis Winston stinks. Despite the outcome yesterday, I still strongly believe that. Payton was seen yelling at him several times on the sideline when he came off the field and that was a clear indicator that he was missing throws and/or throwing to the wrong guy repeatedly. If you take away the Collins gaff on the 72 yd. TD and the 49 yd. Hail Mary- two things that obviously should've never happened-, Winston was 13-28 for about 158 yds and 2 TD's, that  might have been meaningless on the scoreboard had it not been for the other 2 fluke TD's.

 

It was a game that we gave away and Winston is exactly who I thought he was, but we let him off the hook.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 versus 2 in the end zone.  6 versus 4 in general. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

“We weren’t ready for it”

 

💩

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, WTFforLife said:

I think everyone should listen to Jon Kliens interview with Logan Paulsen where they take apart our  Defense. Paulsen basically says they are doing nothing, there is no disguise to our defense, it's straight up vanilla. He does not want to admit it on air but basically hes laying blame on RR and JDR.

 

I listened to all of Paulsen's takes on Keim's podcasts and elsewhere including rewatching that segment. He's gotten into detail about a bunch of the players on defense and what they need to do better.   Maybe he does it this week but I don't recall him once laying the blame on Rivera.  I guess since its Rivera's team I guess its implied that any criticism, critcizes him by implication, but I don't recall any direct shots.  Granted maybe they come this week from him. 

 

He's been mostly on the players with some sprinkle of blame on Del Rio.   And yeah with Del Rio its been disguise.  The irony is Collins blamed the big blown coverage on him overdoing the disguise look time wise. 

 

The most hard opinion I take from Paulsen is its not hard to read between the lines he's not a Heinicke guy.  He couches it sometimes.  Praises him sometimes.  But he's talked about not being impressed with him before he was here in one podcast and has doubts.  In another recent one he more or less said he can pick apart simple defenses but has some doubts he can do it against higher end defenses.  His comments are peppered with criticisms, he saves himself here and there with complements but its not hard to deduce he doesn't see himself as a believer as the dude being a franchise QB.

 

Granted Paulsen's take isn't gospel.  He's smart but its still just opinion. 

19 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

“We weren’t ready for it”

 

💩

 

The secondary is my least favorite unit on the team.  😧    They do a lot of talking.  Some excuses.   But their ability to let big plays happen IMO has been the worst chapter in this defenses demise. 

 

The Bobby McCain rant about how the media needs to praise them when the going gets good -- I suspect won't age well.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll add to that, its not hard to piece together there is building tension with the secondary and D line.  A week ago it was a Chase Young comment about he doesn't know what's going on behind him.  But after the game, Ionnaidis and Payne had much more pointed comments that referenced the secondary. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The Bobby McCain rant about how the media needs to praise them when the going gets good -- I suspect won't age well.

It never does.

 

I wish we weren’t so experienced in having outspoken safeties run their mouth about “when they start playing well” and then the defense never actually plays well.  

[RandyHolt]

Has anyone ever seen an obvious hail mary situation and all the DBs are chasing all the WRs to the endzone?  If I were RR I would make all the coaches watch that clip over and over until there is a resignation.  I assume that was JDRs swinging gate moment trying to get fired.

I'll look for some Kenny Stills.

[Skinsinparadise]

The Washington Football Team’s biggest defensive breakdowns might not be its biggest problem. While the New Orleans Saints’ two longest scores certainly hurt Sunday — the 49-yard Hail Mary before halftime and the 72-yard bomb in the first quarter — they were also not unusual. Last year, Washington’s defense was one of the NFL’s best despite an inability to prevent home runs, allowing 16 plays of 40 or more yards, third most in the league.

 

The difference this year has been an inability to prevent doubles. Think of a double as a big play — a rush of 10 or more yards or a pass of 20 or more — that totals less than 40 yards. Last year, Washington gave up 63 doubles, the league’s lowest total. This season, it has already conceded 26, which is right around league average but a big step back from last season’s performance.

Sunday seemed like a perfect opportunity for Washington to reverse the trend. Coming in, New Orleans’s offense ranked last in the league with only 14 big plays in four games. Against Washington, New Orleans recorded eight big plays — including six doubles to go with the aforementioned home run touchdowns — to extend drives and ultimately secure a 33-22 win.

 

The causes of the big plays have varied. Sometimes the defense is unprepared, like on the Hail Mary; on others, it doesn’t communicate fast enough — like on the 72-yarder, when safety Landon Collins said New Orleans quick-snapped while he was out of position. Washington plays an aggressive style of defense, one Rivera said can collapse if even one player is out of position, and last year, it limited missed tackles and blown coverages well enough to mostly limit doubles, despite its penchant for giving up home runs.

“People just need to keep playing hard and [keep] playing assignment football,” defensive tackle Daron Payne said. “Stick to your assignment, do the things that you’re asked, and everything will fix [itself].”

 

Doubles have been an issue for Washington since the season’s first possession. The Los Angeles Chargers ran for two en route to an easy opening touchdown, added two more on their marathon possession to set the tone of the second half and squeezed in a last one to convert third and seven on the final, clock-killing drive late in the fourth quarter. The New York Giants had three more crucial doubles — one for a lead-seizing touchdown, two for lead-cushioning field goals — the following week. In a Week 3 blowout, the Buffalo Bills seemed to get one whenever they needed it.

 

Beyond the obvious concern with allowing big plays — even ones that don’t go for 40-plus yards — is that they are tied closely to an offense’s ability to score. In one study of the importance of big plays, Ben Elsner of the 33rd Team, a football website, found that only 10 percent of drives without a big play since 2010 have ended in a score. If an offense manages to hit a big play, the odds it scores triples, and if it hits two, its chances shoot over 50 percent.

Even when it didn’t score, New Orleans’s doubles hurt Washington. Quarterback Jameis Winston twice scrambled for 10 or more yards before the drive ended with a Blake Gillikin punt inside Washington’s 2-yard line. And when it was time to close out the game, the Saints, as the Chargers did before them, found a hole.

 

New Orleans had first and 10 from its 36-yard line with 5:36 remaining. Washington only trailed 27-22, so if it got the ball back, it would allow quarterback Taylor Heinicke to attempt another comeback. It couldn’t. The Saints used play-action to freeze linebacker Cole Holcomb, and tight end Adam Trautman got behind him for a 32-yard gain into Washington territory.

Washington will undoubtedly seek to address its problem of giving up critical home run plays like the Hail Mary and the 72-yard bomb that helped cause Sunday’s loss. But if it isn’t able to cut down on the number of doubles it has allowed through five games, it’s difficult to expect different results moving forward.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/10/11/washington-football-defense-big-plays/