Next Day Thread: Buffalo vs. Landover Junior Varsity

[ExoDus84]

5 minutes ago, zskins said:

So far our D right now.

 

 

If Rivera wanted to do a blood sacrifice of Jon Bostic at the altar of the Football Gods, I'd be more than ok with it.

[samy316]

It never fails with this team over the last 20 years.  Get a little bit of success, and they start feeling themselves, and buying into their press clippings.  I don't want to hear anything about this defense ever again as far as it's elite status, and how we're so "talented" on that side of the ball.  What a load of crap.  I never bought into this defense being "elite" as was stated periodically by the fan base, the local media, and surprisingly enough the national media during the offseason.  One look at who we played last year, and when we played them tells an entirely different story than the once that folks in Ashburn would have you believe.  This is the list of QB's that Washington beat last year to get to 7 wins:

 

Carson Wentz

Andy Dalton x2

Joe Burrow

Ben Roethlisberger

Nick Mullens

Jalen Hurts

 

 

Real "solid" list of QB's they feasted on last year to get to that impressive 7-9 record to win the worst division in NFL history.  Anyone with eyes would tell you that a defense with some talent would look really good beating that list of mostly backup QB's and QB's that have lost a step (Roethlisberger, Wentz).  Whenever the Football Team faced a team with a legitimate QB or an above average offense (Ravens, Browns, Seahwaks, Cardinals), they got their clocks cleaned straight up.  This is an overrated defense, which got gassed up listening to their own hype during the offseason.  These guys should check their ego's and attitudes real quick if they think they're that good.

 

These first 3 weeks is a microcosm of the past 20 years.  If anyone wonders why the stadium is less than half full each home game, with 40% of that crowd being opposing team fans, look no further than this.  It's the same story year after year.  Pretty soon, there won't be any fans left in the stands but opposing team fans.  I wonder if anyone will truly care the day that happens.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

17 minutes ago, samy316 said:

This is the list of QB's that Washington beat last year to get to 7 wins:

 

Carson Wentz

Andy Dalton x2

Joe Burrow

Ben Roethlisberger

Nick Mullens

Jalen Hurts

This is rather damning.

 

I'm just perplexed by how many of us forgot it.  And by many of us, I mean even those of us that tend to be much more realistic vs. those that find silver linings in everything.  Perhaps it was simply just having fun in the winter, getting to watch a playoff game.  It's such an unusual feeling, we got carried away and left logic in the dust.  But what's really odd is that there wasn't much of a peep about it in the offseason, after our division winning hangover wore off.  As fans we all tend to get carried away, but can normally come back down to earth and be realistic.  Nope, not this time.  We all sort of just expected to be a lot better than last year.

[Skinsinparadise]

53 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Seeing Fuller's 65 is all I need to know about the credibility of PFF

 

And if I recall you disagree about their take on William Jackson and you feel he's played well this season. 

 

Like I said, I've disagreed with some of their scores and openly talked about it at the time.  But that doesn't mean I am right and they are wrong.  I could be right.  They could be right.    And most of their scores to me do not seem out of whack even though I disagree with some. 

 

 I doubt every team subscribes to PFF because its a clown show that gets most things wrong but FO's nontheless they just want to waste their money and are willing to look foolish by actually quoting some of the scores.   IMO it has some value but to each their own.  😀

Edited September 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[PartyPosse]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And if I recall you disagree about their take on William Jackson and you feel he's played well this season. 

I didn't see anything egregious from him yesterday to warrant such a low score. I believe yesterday receivers caught 2 of 5 passes thrown at him. Fuller went 8 for 8 for 104 yards and a passer rating against of over 100. Too many weird variables have far too much influence. 

 

So far his numbers this year are better than they've ever been in Cincy. Lowest completion percentage against, Lowest yards per completions, lowest rating against,  already tied his high in INT. He's a significant upgrade over Darby, who everyone was fawning over and now isn't even playing.

[Koolblue13]

Bostic is so bad. Holcomb is out of position at times, too, but you see him trying to direct guys even during the plays. Davis doesn't look too bad. Fuller is playing awful.

 

We still need a real FS. It's just unbelievable.

 

Also, there are a lot of plays that no defense is going to stop. They are just really really good.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Koolblue13

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I didn't see anything egregious from him yesterday to warrant such a low score. I believe yesterday receivers caught 2 of 5 passes thrown at him. Fuller went 8 for 8 for 104 yards and a passer rating against of over 100. Too many weird variables have far too much influence. 

 

So far his numbers this year are better than they've ever been in Cincy. Lowest completion percentage against, Lowest yards per completions, lowest rating against,  already tied his high in INT. He's a significant upgrade over Darby, who everyone was fawning over and now isn't even playing.

 

I'm with on you WJIII and Fuller. Not sure what their metrics are in totality but I don't think they are always completely accurate. But it's hard to make a formula to grade guys exactly... It's a tool...

 

That said I think they are way wrong on those two guys. WJ3 has played well.

Edited September 27, 2021 by KDawg

[PartyPosse]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm with on you WJIII and Fuller. Not sure what their metrics are in totality but I don't think they are always completely accurate. But it's hard to make a formula to grade guys exactly... It's a tool...

I get it. It's not perfect, but far too many use their numbers as the whole picture. And it's a lazy way for people who barely watch games to run their mouths about player opinions. 

 

Either way, as far as i'm concerned, WJ3 has probably been the team's second best player on defense behind Payne. You have one of the best man cover corners in the league and you continue running zone with a complete lack of communication everywhere.

Edited September 27, 2021 by PartyPosse

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

I get it. It's not perfect, but far too many use their numbers as the whole picture. And it's a lazy way for people who barely watch games to run their mouths about player opinions. 

 

Either way, as far as i'm concerned, WJ3 has probably been the team's second best player on defense behind Payne.

 

I have him third behind Payne and Allen. But yes. Same page.

[WTFforLife]

Does anyone think Rivera tossed this game? there have been documented times coaches HAVE done this for reasons.

Reasoning goes he knew going in there was no way his team could compete with the Bills so he used the game to test certain things and treat it like a per-season game

 

1. Running Gibson a unusual number of times on brutal up-the-gut runs which went no where. Gibson may have made the transition from WR to RB but hes not and will never be a pounder up the middle.

 

2. The "as reported" narrative that Taylor Heinicke was not listening to coaches and ignoring wide open check down throws and going for the big money throws; something tells me he does not have the cred to be willful like that and might have been told to do this.

 

3. The ridiculous amount of calls having Taylor Heinicke  throw dangerous thread the needle sideline passes which were not connecting so many times even the commentators where baffled as to why Turner kept calling them

 

4. The clip where Chase Young was yelling at Del Rio , I suspect because  on a number of plays Del Rio was dropping him into coverage ( which is insane)

I am not saying something was up, but some of the coaching decisions were down right crazy, it does make one wonder what they were thinking

 

[PartyPosse]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

I have him third behind Payne and Allen. But yes. Same page.

It's those three by far ahead of everyone else, which is actually a bit of a silver lining in that you still have 3 of your stars playing like stars. Just need to get a couple others to hold up their end and it's a vastly different defence.

[Conn]

2 hours ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

We're more looking like the panthers that got Ron fired than the panthers that went to the super bowl

The only important difference between those two looks was a healthy near-MVP caliber Cam Newton.

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, WTFforLife said:

Does anyone think Rivera tossed this game? there have been documented times coaches HAVE done this for reasons.

Reasoning goes he knew going in there was no way his team could compete with the Bills so he used the game to test certain things and treat it like a per-season game

 

1. Running Gibson a unusual number of times on brutal up-the-gut runs which went no where. Gibson may have made the transition from WR to RB but hes not and will never be a pounder up the middle.

 

2. The "as reported" narrative that Taylor Heinicke was not listening to coaches and ignoring wide open check down throws and going for the big money throws; something tells me he does not have the cred to be willful like that and might have been told to do this.

 

3. The ridiculous amount of calls having Taylor Heinicke  throw dangerous thread the needle sideline passes which were not connecting so many times even the commentators where baffled as to why Turner kept calling them

 

4. The clip where Chase Young was yelling at Del Rio , I suspect because  on a number of plays Del Rio was dropping him into coverage ( which is insane)

I am not saying something was up, but some of the coaching decisions were down right crazy, it does make one wonder what they were thinking

 

Our LBers were terribly out of position. I don't think Ron told Thomas to fumble or Heinicke to throw a pick. They played in 25mph wind. There is no conspiracy.

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Meh.

Barber had 140+ more yards than Patterson this week.

 

I like J, but he does not provide anything that the guys above him on the depth chart don't do so much better. Even in a sans Samuel world Patterson is not currently getting touches, and if the staff does not trust him to even give Gibby or McK a blow, then he can do his job just as effectively from the practice squad. As to this point he is clearly not needed to split reps until Gibby or McK go inactive.

 

At least a big body back would provide something different and we wouldn't have to rely on TH for those clutch short yardage carries. They may even be willing to play a big body back if they had one active, like they did all of last year.

 

Lack of an alternate power back is severely limiting this team right now, and its adding up damage on the people you don't want it on. We are in dire need of a big boy. It does not really even matter who at this point.

 

We saw what Barber was here. And Barber lost weight to get quicker, he really isn't a big power back anymore. And if you think Barber would put up 140, or even 40 yards Sunday, you're lying to yourself. Maybe we need a actual power back, but Barber still isn't the answer.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

We saw what Barber was here. And Barber lost weight to get quicker, he really isn't a big power back anymore. And if you think Barber would put up 140, or even 40 yards Sunday, you're lying to yourself. Maybe we need a actual power back, but Barber still isn't the answer.

We do need one, yes.

 

Been beating that drum along with linebacker and QB and FS for a few years now.

[CjSuAvE22]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is what losing does to us, we question everything.

 

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater again, this is only his second year.

I dunno seems eerily similar like I've seen this book before, at least Jay Gruden offenses were decent he was an offensive minded coach, So far this defense is ranked last and oh btw Gruden was forced to work with a qb he knew wasn't good to start....A Ron Rivera defense with what has been invested in it shouldn't be almost dead last in the league through three weeks. I think its justifiable to be annoyed with how that unit has played so far and be extremely critical of the head coach.

Edited September 27, 2021 by CjSuAvE22

[RandyHolt]

People complaining about our LBs. Know that LBs are heavily targeted by OCs and exploited. But JDR is exacerbating their weaknesses by having them read as much as they do. LBs by their nature are aggressive and it may mitigate their weaknesses to just roll the dice and let them attack the ****ing ball sometimes. At least we'll have a greater chance of forcing a turnover vs waiting for a bad throw that rarely happens in the modern game. Let the LBs attack do some stunts with our all world DL. Try the Dallas play where a blitzer doesnt go after the QB, they attack an OT and free up his assignment. Dictate to offenses a few times a game dammit. Instead we are on our heels.

 

My heads going to explode if we rush 4 all day and get curb stomped next week. I suspect JDR will only change when we are 3-8.

 

if our LBs are at the core at what ails our D, its very disconcerting to have LB coaches yet they cannot find good LBs, nor use them effectively.

Edited September 27, 2021 by RandyHolt

[Dan T.]

Fingers crossed...

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I didn't see anything egregious from him yesterday to warrant such a low score. I believe yesterday receivers caught 2 of 5 passes thrown at him. Fuller went 8 for 8 for 104 yards and a passer rating against of over 100. Too many weird variables have far too much influence. 

 

So far his numbers this year are better than they've ever been in Cincy. Lowest completion percentage against, Lowest yards per completions, lowest rating against,  already tied his high in INT. He's a significant upgrade over Darby, who everyone was fawning over and now isn't even playing.

 

Their score was for the full three games not yesterday alone.  He had to play well yesterday for it to elevate to 49 because it was 40 before that.  I just looked up their individual game scores for him, what lowered his score is they gave him a 30 for the game against the Giants.    

 

That plays into actually what I said about him the other day, to my eyes yeah he looked bad against the Giants.  As for the Bills game,  we barely heard a peep about him so that was a good sign and said the same yestertday.

 

And yes I did watch the game and did even rewatch it some, so I am not  barely watching the game yet i am willing to run my mouth about it, as you suggested in another post that people do.   It doesn't mean i am right but that's been my impression.  You are offering a different opinion, and that's cool.  I don't think the difference is you watched it more closely than I did.  It's just different takes. 

 

As for him as a player, you'd be hard pressed to find someone here who was higher about that signing than me.  But the point was has William Jackson played really well in the first two games or not?  To my eyes, specifically pointing to the Giants game, nope.  

Edited September 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Their score was for the full three games not yesterday alone.  He has to play well yesterday for it to elevate to 49 because it was 40 before that.  I just looked up their individual game scores for him as to the, what lowers it is they gave him a 30 for the game against the Giants.    

 

That plays into actually what I said about him the other day, to my eyes yeah he looked bad against the Giants.  As for the Bills game,  we barely heard a peep about him so that was a good sign.

 

And yes I did watch the game and did even rewatch it some, so I am not  barely watching the game yet i am willing to run my mouth about it, as you suggested in another post that people do.   It doesn't mean i am right but that's been my impression.  You are offering an opinion, and that's cool.  I don't think the difference is you watched it more closely than I did.  It's just different takes. 

 

As for him as a player, you'd be hard pressed to find someone here who was higher about that signing than me.  But the point was has William Jackson played really well in the first two games or not?  To my eyes, specifically pointing to the Giants game, nope.  

 

He played very well in 2/3 games.

 

The Giants game I'd like to know how they computed that 30. Seems like they gave him credit for some of Collins' blunders.

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And yes I did watch the game and did even rewatch it some, so I am not  barely watching the game yet i am willing to run my mouth about it, as you suggested in another post that people do.   It doesn't mean i am right but that's been my impression.  You are offering an opinion, and that's cool.  I don't think the difference is you watched it more closely than I did.  It's just different takes. 

 

As for him as a player, you'd be hard pressed to find someone here who was higher about that signing than me.  But the point was has William Jackson played really well in the first two games or not?  To my eyes, specifically pointing to the Giants game, nope.  

I wasn't referring to you. Mostly the know-nothing social media trolls that live and die on fantasy football. My impression of a corner is like an OL. The less you hear their name the better. I think considering the scheme and the lack of any pocket collapses, the fact that he'd been pretty steady says a lot about how he's played. The Giants game, I also don't understand the harsh criticism. Outside of the Slayton TD (which was pretty much a perfect throw) it was a fairly quiet day against him. Fuller now has given up 17 receptions on 20 targets. How is that significantly better than Jackson according to PFF?  He leads the league in PD as well. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

He played very well in 2/3 games.

 

The Giants game I'd like to know how they computed that 30. Seems like they gave him credit for some of Collins' blunders.

 

I tried to rewatch that game yesterday but they still don't have the all 22 on Game Pass which makes rewatching corners tough.  I rewatched some of the Giants game last week on my big screen TV, focusing on the LBs and D line but caught some of the corner play and it wasn't hard to see the Giant WRs seperating well against Jackson on some plays I noticed.    I don't have the patience though to rewatch that game without the all 22.  The secondary is hard to zone in on with the regular feed.

 

The argument from me wasn't that he played poorly against Buffalo.  I actually said he was probably playing well since his name wasn't mentioned much that day which typically is a good sign for CBs.  My point also wasn't he is a bad player.  I loved the signing.  The argument on the game thread was William Jackson has played well on the aggregate in the first two games.  I said I don't think so but I also said I thought PFF's 40 grade was too harsh.  

 

As for the other argument (not from you) being made that PFF is somewhat of a joke.  And I've seen what you've said before about PFF, I am pretty much at the same place about them.   Heck I put out my own grades just for fun as for college prospects and juxtaposed it with PFF grades and put in on a couple of threads, and I disagreed a ton with PFF.  But at the same time I don't think the outfit is mostly wildly off.  There are some useful stats you can glean from them IMO.  I don't take them as gospel clearly but its an interesting tool.  And you rarely see that much that's let say is weird like they think Aaron Donald stinks and name that scrub is a killer player.  Their scores usually have some rationale to them even though I far from agree with everything they put out.  

Edited September 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[PartyPosse]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

He played very well in 2/3 games.

 

The Giants game I'd like to know how they computed that 30. Seems like they gave him credit for some of Collins' blunders.

They probably gave him a -50 on the Slayton TD and the OPI

[FootballZombie]

46 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

We saw what Barber was here. And Barber lost weight to get quicker, he really isn't a big power back anymore. And if you think Barber would put up 140, or even 40 yards Sunday, you're lying to yourself. Maybe we need a actual power back, but Barber still isn't the answer.

 

1.) I suggested any big body back.

 

2.) Are you seriously implying the guy who put up 140 yds from scrimmage just 24 hrs ago is somehow incapable of putting up 140 yds? Or even a fraction of that total?  C'mon now, that's fantasy land.