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Next Day Thread: Buffalo vs. Landover Junior Varsity

KDawg

By KDawg
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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted

@petey hodge accidentally typed that our defense had allowed 15 of 13 3rd down conversions. And through what I believe to be a very easy to make typo I believe he actually eloquently summed up this game in six words: "Fifteen of thirteen third down conversions".

 

It obviously can't be accurate, but it felt so correct.

 

I waited for hours to make this thread. I sat and thought about possible positives to take out of this game today. I pondered about Logan Thomas' tough play. And Antonio Gibson's screen reception. And Terry McLaurin's grit and skill. And even Heinicke's heart (despite his poor play). But then I thought about that awful 4th down QB sneak call and... well... every defensive play... And I got lost again.

 

I don't even know how to do a good/bad/ugly breakdown of today's game. It was pretty much entirely ugly. 

 

Buffalo had 481 yards.

 

And quite frankly it appeared like they were bored.

 

We can talk about the offense... because quite frankly they have problems, too. But this defense... 

 

Buffalo had 29 first downs. Washington had 13. Buffalo was 9/15 on third down conversions. Washington was 2/11. 

 

Washington's vaunted defensive line came away with zero quarterback sacks. Not a single one. None. 

 

Washington turned the ball over 3 times. Buffalo? Zero. 

 

Washington's starting linebackers have been total liabilities. They are targeted every single time they are on the field. Everyone knows exactly what they are weak at and they expose them. We are unable/unwilling to help them out schematically. Our slot corners are rough in man, our man corners spend too much time in zone because our slot corner is better in zone. Landon Collins is a free lancer who works outside of the scheme at times (likely with good intentions to be fair to him) and I'm not sure we even have a true free safety on the roster. That's before we even get to the defensive line who virtually no-showed today's game with the exception of Payne and Allen. 

 

It's frustrating. 

 

And while I am not someone that thinks Rivera should go all out with the media and light this defense up (quite frankly I'm not sure that does any good whatsoever) it is frustrating to see some of his comments:

 

On if the expectations for the defense were too high: 

 

"It depends on whose they are. You know? Whether they're our expectations or outside expectations. My expectations were to play better than we did."

 

I have too much respect for Coach Rivera to drop a, "Things we knew for $500, Alex" at this comment... but yeah. We agree. So now the question is: What is being done about it?

 

And the announcers even talked about this rebuild being in the early phases... over and over again. Look, I understand Ron Rivera and co. haven't been here long and quite frankly they deserve some time to get this thing going in the right direction. I'm not one of those kneejerk reaction folks who want everyone fired. Things can be fixed from within and sometimes that means you need some time to right the ship. I understand that as a coach as well.

 

Having said that, and stepping away from this current iteration of Washington football... How many rebuilds has this team endured in the last 30 years? Could it be considered one large one? Or has it been 16 multi-year rebuilds? At some point there has to be a very strong desire to change the way things are going. And maybe there is. And maybe this regime does it...

 

But that wasn't looking like it was the case today.

 

Rough, rough game.

 

Awards:

 

*** - Antonio Gibson

** - Logan Thomas

* -  Terry McLaurin

:( - Chase Young

:( :( - Cole Holcomb

:( :( :( - Jon Bostic

 

Season to Date:

 

* x4 -  Terry McLaurin

* x3 - Antonio Gibson 

* x3 - Taylor Heinicke

* x3- William Jackson III

* x2 - Tress Way

* x2 - Logan Thomas

* x1- Jon Allen

:( x3- Cole Holcomb

:( x4 - Chase Young

:( x5- Kendall Fuller

:( x6 - Jon Bostic 

 

 

 

 

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petey hodge

petey hodge

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hey @KDawg, it wasn’t an error, but a sad joke about how it appeared that the Bills were “firing at will” and getting an Impossible completion rate over 100%.  It.just.felt.like.it

 

i don’t know the actual stat, but I recall the Chargers were around 13 of 15 on 3rd downs, so I made a play on that.  Sadly, I didn’t put an emoji there to show there was some snark involved.

 

Bottom Line:

when we lost to the Chargers, a lot of people gave our bad D a pass citing that “across the NFL, all teams have wonky starts… did you see who Team X lost to?”

 

well, after three games of observing our horrible defensive production.  It’s hard to believe we’re simply going to snap out of this funk.  Our D is what our eyes have seen.

 

 

Edited by petey hodge
Maths. lol
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KDawg

KDawg

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

Hey @KDawg, it wasn’t an error, but a sad joke about how it appeared that the Bills were “firing at will” and getting an Impossible completion rate over 100%.  It.just.felt.like.it

 

i don’t know the actual stat, but I recall the Chargers were around 13 of 15 on rd downs, so I made a play on that.  Sadly, I didn’t put an emoji there to show there was some snark involved.

 

Bottom Line:

when we lost to the Chargers, a lot of people gave out bad D a pass citing that “across the NFL, all teams have wonky starts… did you see who Team X lost to?”

 

well, after three games of observing out horrible defensive production.  It’s hard to believe we’re simply going to snap out of this funk.  Our D is what our eyes have seen.

 

 

 

Snark, no snark... It was the most accurate summation of today's events that I've seen anywhere on these forums. It was a literary masterpiece of descriptive narration all in six words. Absolute gem of a comment. 

Edited by KDawg
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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted

Two drives sum up this defense.

 

Right before the half, with 20 seconds left, Bills have the ball fairly deep in their own territory. I comment "I bet they get a FG try out of this." Lo and behold, we play soft vanilla coverage and they get a FG out of it.

 

Bills had another drive later in the 2nd half at their own 5 yard line. I comment "Incoming 95 yard scoring drive." Well what do you know, a few minutes later easy peasy TD drive.

 

I have absolutely no faith in this defense to make a stop. None whatsoever. Its Jimmy Haslett and Joe Barry all over again. Actually its worse because at least those defenses had very little invested in them. This defense has four first rounders in the DL and high priced FAs in the secondary in Collins, Jackson, and Fuller. We play with no aggressiveness or physicality at all. We also don't seem to have a clue what we're doing in the back end. We seem to be very vanilla in our schemes yet guys are constantly confused and looking at each other shrugging after giving up big plays. So what is it?

 

I was watching RedZone once the game went to 21-0. You watch other teams and you notice that they're able to consistently generate pass rush, at least on obvious pass downs. The Raiders consistently collapsed the pocket with 4 man rushes. Ditto the Vikings against a top notch QB. In the Bucs/Rams game, on a 3rd and 3, the Rams played tight press man across the board and stopped a guy short of the 1st.

 

I don't think all those defenses have significantly more talent than we do. Maybe they're a little more talented, but not to the extent where we should be giving up 60% on 3rd downs(and honestly even that seems low, it feels like 90%). Not to the extent that we should be giving up nearly 500 yards per game. Some regression after last year is reasonable, but we might legitimately have the worst D in the league and in particular the worst 3rd down D in recent history. The 2011 Chargers are the worst since 2000 with 49% allowed, like I said we're giving up 60%. SIXTY. And many of those are 3rd and 10+.

 

There appears to be some kind of disconnect on defense between players, between players and coaches, and/or between the coaches themselves. We bring in man corners but revert to zone on every big down. We invest heavily in the DL but don't seem to care about actually generating pressure. There is no identity and it looks like the players are on the verge of just checking out until something changes.

 

The root of this team's issues are the defense. The offense is what it is:  Heinicke is a good backup with some mobility and moxy but he's too physically limited to beat a team like Buffalo without guys around him helping. Unfortunately we had a fumble and some drops and then Heinicke had to press and try to force throws and that just won't work. I'd say the offense is probably around league average-ish right now which honestly I'm okay with all things considered(backup career UDFA QB, no Curtis Samuel, rookie starting RT). I'm not saying the offense bears no fault today, but I kinda feel like they were about as good as you can reasonably expect(turnovers and drops aside).

 

At least Tress Way is still really good and Dusty Hopkins had a nifty little kickoff bounce return thingamajig(that lets be honest was 100% luck).

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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, gooseneck said:

When do you think Young and Sweat will break the two person sack record of 39?  I would think easily by week 10.

 

I know this is snark but I'm glad you said that.

 

People have been anointing these guys as one of the best duos in the league. Truly elite. 

 

In 2015 Preston Smith and Chris Baker had 14.5 total sacks. In 2020 Chase Young and Montez Sweat had 16.5.

 

Two more sacks combined than Chris Baker and Preston Smith.

 

In 2009 Brian Orakpo and Andre Carter combined for 22 sacks. 

 

In 2013, a 3-13 season, Rak and Kerrigan combined for 18.5 sacks.

 

In 2021, the combo of Sweat and Young are on track for roughly 11 sacks. All from Sweat. That obviously won't happen. But... Yeah. Let's let these guys be better than Carter/Rak before we consider them among the upper echelon of NFL pass rushers. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by KDawg
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IrepDC

IrepDC

Posted
Posted

Ron inherited a team that was bottom 5 in the league. The best I can rationalize is that he needs more time to raise the floor of our roster; especially on defense.

 

The NFL is a match up league and that means you're usually as strong as your weakest link. I think about Kevin King getting exploited over and over last year until Green Bay was eliminated. Well our weakest links are a lot worse.

 

It cannot be overstated how easily our LBs are to exploit. In man coverage, in zone coverage, in run support; they are liabilities. I have never seen such an obvious area for opposing offenses to attack as this years LBs. Offenses clearly know it too. If I weren't so depressed about this game, I'd break down how often they were targeted, but we all see it. Bostic is a marked man.

 

That is the only part I can explain though. The secondary is playing terrible too. What happened to Kendall Fuller? Why do our DBs blow coverages every week? Why do so many players look lost and unmotivated? And of course the four 1st round picks on the line... I don't understand any of this. 

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bakedtater1

bakedtater1

Posted
Posted

I watched at buffalo wild wings up until Taylor's first int..early in the second..just got up and left...I went in hung over just ordered a water was working on that and.was about to start ordering wings when the int happened...a bills fan was talking to.me saying he was nervous as hell going into the game against our d line and I just laughed at him..said you ain't got **** to worry about lol

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KDawg

KDawg

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Ron inherited a team that was bottom 5 in the league. The best I can rationalize is that he needs more time to raise the floor of our roster; especially on defense.

 

The NFL is a match up league and that means you're usually as strong as your weakest link. I think about Kevin King getting exploited over and over last year until Green Bay was eliminated. Well our weakest links are a lot worse.

 

It cannot be overstated how easily our LBs are to exploit. In man coverage, in zone coverage, in run support; they are liabilities. I have never seen such an obvious area for opposing offenses to attack as this years LBs. Offenses clearly know it too. If I weren't so depressed about this game, I'd break down how often they were targeted, but we all see it. Bostic is a marked man.

 

That is the only part I can explain though. The secondary is playing terrible too. What happened to Kendall Fuller? Why do our DBs blow coverages every week? Why do so many players look lost and unmotivated? And of course the four 1st round picks on the line... I don't understand any of this. 

 

The pieces just don't fit together.

 

We bring in William Jackson and St. Juste as man corners. We move on from Moreland/Darby who can play some zone. We have Kendall Fuller in the slot, who is primarily a zone corner matched with two man corners. We have Collins who isn't good in coverage in general other than when he's used as a robber (which he is very good at) and we don't really have a free safety.

 

Now, add our linebackers who can't play man or zone.

 

We have a hodge podge of pieces and I'm not sure anyone can get them to row the boat in the same direction.

 

I even have a hard time blaming the individual players. And the coaching. 

 

This team was VERY poorly put together.

 

To fix it you have to try to match personnel the best that you can.

 

Which is difficult. But: 

 

LB: Davis

LB: Holcomb (if Hudson is so bad he can't even see the field)

CB: St-Juste

CB: WJIII

FS: Kendall Fuller (over the top zones)

SS/Slot Corner: Kam Curl

Hybrid/Slot Corner: Anyone who can even remotely play man. Maybe McTyer.

 

Then we need to delay receivers just enough for our pass rush to get home. Even if it's close. We saw today that on the few times we manage to apply pressure it gets us into favorable situations. 

Edited by KDawg
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Cooleyfan1993

Cooleyfan1993

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

Here’s what our D allowed

Week 1: 20 points

Week 2: 29 points 

Week 3: 43 points

 

we’re on pace to give up over 60 points on Oct 9!

 

On a day that we don’t even play?? That’d be a trick wouldn’t it. But, wouldn’t put it past this defense to do something like that :) 

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IrepDC

IrepDC

Posted
Posted
Just now, KDawg said:

 

The pieces just don't fit together.

 

We bring in William Jackson and St. Juste as man corners. We move on from Moreland/Darby who can play some zone. We have Kendall Fuller in the slot, who is primarily a zone corner matched with two man corners. We have Collins who isn't good in coverage in general other than when he's used as a robber (which he is very good at) and we don't really have a free safety.

 

Now, add our linebackers who can't play man or zone.

 

We have a hodge podge of pieces and I'm not sure anyone can get them to row the boat in the same direction.

 

I even have a hard time blaming the individual players. And the coaching. 

 

This team was VERY poorly put together.

 

To fix it you have to try to match personnel the best that you can.

 

Which is difficult. But: 

 

LB: Davis

LB: Holcomb (if Hudson is so bad he can't even see the field)

CB: St-Juste

CB: WJIII

FS: Kendall Fuller (over the top zones)

SS/Slot Corner: Kam Curl

Hybrid/Slot Corner: Anyone who can even remotely play man

 

Then we need to delay receivers just enough for our pass rush to get home. Even if it's close. We saw today that on the few times we manage to apply pressure it gets us into favorable situations. 

This is painfully true. Defense is about working as a unit and being on the same page. Our defense is pieced together like Frankenstein and it shows in the lack of chemistry between the parts.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

The pieces just don't fit together.

 

We bring in William Jackson and St. Juste as man corners. We move on from Moreland/Darby who can play some zone. We have Kendall Fuller in the slot, who is primarily a zone corner matched with two man corners. We have Collins who isn't good in coverage in general other than when he's used as a robber (which he is very good at) and we don't really have a free safety.

 

Now, add our linebackers who can't play man or zone.

 

We have a hodge podge of pieces and I'm not sure anyone can get them to row the boat in the same direction.

 

I even have a hard time blaming the individual players. And the coaching. 

 

This team was VERY poorly put together.

 

That's my issue too and why I've said repeatedly that there seems to be a disconnect among our staff and/or FO. We want to play man and made moves to play more man but then revert back to zone.

 

I feel like the few times we play tight press man it seems to work. Not always of course, but we've at least made some plays. I can't recall a single play we've made so far this year playing zone. But like the Jamin Davis 4th down stop, that was straight up man coverage across the board. At the very least, Davis appears to be a capable coverage LB. He really should see more playing time.

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Indi1988

Indi1988

Posted
Posted (edited)

 I refuse to believe with all the cap space this team had that they couldn’t find any upgrades at linebacker through free agency. Teams are targeting that LB core and having whatever they want whenever they want.

Edited by Indi1988
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KDawg

KDawg

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Just now, Indi1988 said:

 I refuse to believe with all the cap space this team had they they couldn’t find an upgrades at linebacker through free agency. Teams are targeting that LB core and having whatever they want whenever they want.

 

There were many upgrades available. WFT chose to roll with Holcomb and Bostic.

 

Keeping Holcomb and continuing his developmental path would have been a great move... but needing to have him in the starting lineup... not so much. 

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