All things defense

[RandyHolt]

Stockholm Sweat Syndrome

 

I cannot recall once seeing Sweat coming free for a shot on a QB. 8 pressures in his first game. Maybe the Chicago DC schemed up trying to free him to validate to fans the trade and contract. Confused the OL with his fronts and blitzes. Something I'd swear JDR tries less than any other game I watch.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Silvernon]

Allen was playing through injury to start the year, so who knows whether he's feeling good...but by now they have to be hitting their stride. 

 

Both are top 10 DTs who aren't playing like it. With more disciplined edges and MLB, they have no reason not to wreak havoc.

 

At the end of the day, a penetrating middle is supposed to lead to sacks and interceptions. 

[Redwards]

Also, look at the team Sweat was playing.  Another weak ass team.   Let's see what he does when the Bears play a good O line.  Something Sweat struggled mightily against here.  I'm not saying JDR isn't culpable, because the man is a fool of a DC, but let's not pretend Sweat is some great player.  He's good.  Certainly not great.  

[method man]

3 hours ago, Redwards said:

Also, look at the team Sweat was playing.  Another weak ass team.   Let's see what he does when the Bears play a good O line.  Something Sweat struggled mightily against here.  I'm not saying JDR isn't culpable, because the man is a fool of a DC, but let's not pretend Sweat is some great player.  He's good.  Certainly not great.  

This is a weak argument. Sweat was going against Taylor Moton, a longtime starting NFL tackle on a $18M AAV deal, and he owned him.

[Silvernon]

Regarding Sweat: there's no issue with him performing. They chose to pick up an early 2nd (and save some '23 dollars), and spend the $25 million/yr elsewhere. 

 

As for the DTs....

Allen was playing through injury to start the year, so who knows whether he's feeling good...but by now they have to be hitting their stride. 

 

Both are top 10 DTs who aren't playing like it. With more disciplined edges and MLB - albeit less athleticism - they have no reason not to wreak havoc.

 

At the end of the day, a penetrating middle is supposed to lead to sacks and interceptions. That's what needs to happen. 

[Redwards]

10 hours ago, Silvernon said:

Allen was playing through injury to start the year, so who knows whether he's feeling good...but by now they have to be hitting their stride. 

 

Both are top 10 DTs who aren't playing like it. With more disciplined edges and MLB, they have no reason not to wreak havoc.

 

At the end of the day, a penetrating middle is supposed to lead to sacks and interceptions. 

Ok.  I'm willing to eat some crow on that.  I have to admit I didn't know Sweat was going against that good of a talent.  

 

I will concede then that Sweat indeed had a good day.  However, in four years in the same system in Washington, with great DTs, it can't be argued that Sweat was better than simply "good".  I stand by that firmly.  He was the definition of "almost got 'em" and "solid".  Nothing more.  I won't really miss him here.  

[Going Commando]

I'll miss him.  He generated tons of pressure and he was a good run defender too.  Even if he wasn't piling up sack totals, our defense never had trouble getting a bunch of sacks when he was playing. I remember all of those years in the aughts when we couldn't generate any pressure and struggled to get 20 sacks as a team.  Desperate and making stupid trades for Jason Taylor.  Basically we've been spoiled by having an alpha pass rusher every year since we drafted Orakpo, and we're about to be reminded of what it was like before then.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[bird_1972]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

I'll miss him.  He generated tons of pressure and he was a good run defender too.  Even if he wasn't piling up sack totals, our defense never had trouble getting a bunch of sacks when he was playing. I remember all of those years in the aughts when we couldn't generate any pressure and struggled to get 20 sacks as a team.  Desperate and making stupid trades for Jason Taylor.  Basically we've been spoiled by having an alpha pass rusher every year since we drafted Orakpo, and we're about to be reminded of what it was like before then.

 

I was disappointed with Orakpo. I really had hoped he would have turned out to be an elite DE but never felt he was more than average-ish. Brian Kerrigan was the most consistent DE we've had over the last 10 years. What a great find he was.

[Warhead36]

47 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

I was disappointed with Orakpo. I really had hoped he would have turned out to be an elite DE but never felt he was more than average-ish. Brian Kerrigan was the most consistent DE we've had over the last 10 years. What a great find he was.

Orakpo was much better then average. He gets a lot of hate from our fans but he actually produced double digit sack seasons playing out of position in a 3-4 with no real help around him other then Kerrigan.

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

I'll miss him.  He generated tons of pressure and he was a good run defender too.  Even if he wasn't piling up sack totals, our defense never had trouble getting a bunch of sacks when he was playing. I remember all of those years in the aughts when we couldn't generate any pressure and struggled to get 20 sacks as a team.  Desperate and making stupid trades for Jason Taylor.  Basically we've been spoiled by having an alpha pass rusher every year since we drafted Orakpo, and we're about to be reminded of what it was like before then.

Sweat is a good player, but teams get in trouble when they pay good players great player money and that's what Sweat got. $100 Mil over 4 years is a lot for a guy who has never had 10 sacks nor has ever made a Pro Bowl or All Pro. 

 

We're worse without him obviously, but its all about resource allocation. If the DL was truly dominant then yeah you pay him, but after paying the two Ts you have to make sacrifices for a unit that has underperformed relative to expectations and cost.

[bird_1972]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We're worse without him obviously, but its all about resource allocation. If the DL was truly dominant then yeah you pay him, but after paying the two Ts you have to make sacrifices for a unit that has underperformed relative to expectations and cost.

 

Agree with this. Also consider our D was ranked 31 of 32 with Sweat and Young. I think a lot of that comes down to coaching and playing people out of position, but still - can't justify big contracts for guys on a D this bad. We were right to get value for them while we could.

[Conn]

Did we see anything out of Andre Jones after JSW went out with injury? 

[MrJL]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

Did we see anything out of Andre Jones after JSW went out with injury? 

he got a pass deflection

[DWinzit]

20 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Orakpo was much better then average. He gets a lot of hate from our fans but he actually produced double digit sack seasons playing out of position in a 3-4 with no real help around him other then Kerrigan.

Sweat is a good player, but teams get in trouble when they pay good players great player money and that's what Sweat got. $100 Mil over 4 years is a lot for a guy who has never had 10 sacks nor has ever made a Pro Bowl or All Pro. 

 

We're worse without him obviously, but its all about resource allocation. If the DL was truly dominant then yeah you pay him, but after paying the two Ts you have to make sacrifices for a unit that has underperformed relative to expectations and cost.

It is amazing how many good players this team has had and used out of position. That's normal I guess when you experience constant HC and coordinator changes.

 

Then again, sometimes they have drafted players then just never used them to their known strengths.

 

I was a big fan of Orakpo and fully agree with you. Kerrigan was always consistent and another guy that gets little move I liked and wanted them to keep was Preston Smith. 

 

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

he got a pass deflection

He was also credited with one tackle assist.

[NoVaSkins21]

The majority of this defense, besides the DTs, is in need of a serious overhaul.  They need to add new DEs via the draft, need a MLB badly, the CBs are pretty bad along with the safeties.  Here's hoping they get the right DC to get this defense right

Edited November 13, 2023 by NoVaSkins21

[skinny21]

8 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

The majority of this defense, besides the DTs, is in need of a serious overhaul.  They need to add new DEs via the draft, need a MLB badly, the CBs are pretty bad along with the safeties.  Here's hoping they get the right DC to get this defense right

I’m mostly with you here, though I think the 2 biggest issues - coaching and lack of quality linebackers - are hurting the other position groups.  Of course, we still need to address Fuller and Curl hitting FA, could use a stud corner, and we’ll have virtually nothing at DE going into the offseason.  
Personally, I’d look to FA for defense - a high end linebacker and corner, along with a pretty good DE.  
Use the draft mostly on offense - Oline, TE, receiver and RB (though FA is pretty cost effective for RB, and maybe not a bad idea to look for a LG in FA either).  Not likely we can land a good OT or TE via FA, and good receivers are pricey.  

Corner, linebacker and DE are sensible ancillary options in the draft as well (in addition to addressing them in FA).  

[Warhead36]

36 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

The majority of this defense, besides the DTs, is in need of a serious overhaul.  They need to add new DEs via the draft, need a MLB badly, the CBs are pretty bad along with the safeties.  Here's hoping they get the right DC to get this defense right

Mostly agree but I think Fuller is a rock solid CB. St. Juste isn't bad but he's just way too handsy and every throw towards him has a 50/50 shot at DPI. If Forbes develops that does alleviate the CB need somewhat. Safety and LB outside of Curl Davis are atrociously bad though.

[djpapeleta360]

If the 49ers don't franchise tag Bosa I hope we go all in to sign him. I would spend big in free agency to shore up this defense and use the draft for offense.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, djpapeleta360 said:

If the 49ers don't franchise tag Bosa I hope we go all in to sign him. I would spend big in free agency to shore up this defense and use the draft for offense.

He already signed a long term deal.

[djpapeleta360]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

He already signed a long term deal.

A damn. I thought he was still a free agent.

[No Nonsense]

Where have Payne and Allen been hiding all year? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, No Nonsense said:

Where have Payne and Allen been hiding all year? 

The bank.

 

In all seriousness though, Allen likely feeling the ills of plantar fasciitis.  Payne on the other hand, there’s been some glimpses but I gather he lost that extra gear when he signed that deal.

[PlayAction]

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 I think the 2 biggest issues - coaching and lack of quality linebackers - are hurting the other position groups.   

 

The lack of quality linebackers is never so obvious as when the team plays against a team with high quality LBs.  It really sucks that this team devalued that position or just didn't have the eye for LB talent.  

[SkinsGuy]

2 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

The lack of quality linebackers is never so obvious as when the team plays against a team with high quality LBs.  It really sucks that this team devalued that position or just didn't have the eye for LB talent.  

 

Which is shocking because both Rivera and Del Rio are former linebackers. You would think they would put a premium on the position. 

 

However as coaches, they've treated it like a complete afterthought. 🤔

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Which is shocking because both Rivera and Del Rio are former linebackers. You would think they would put a premium on the position. 

 

However as coaches, they've treated it like a complete afterthought. 🤔

Rivera also drafted and spent the majority of his coaching career with Luke Kuechly wrecking games. 
 

And we’ve been out here with guys like Jon Bostic and David Mayo since he came to Washington.