2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, SeatCushionGame said:

Heath Shuler had small hands!  😮

I read recently that Howell's stats this year are very similar to his performance last year.  Considering the talent that offense lost, I think that is pretty commendable. 

Actually Heath Schuler had large hands. He measured 10.63 inches at the combine. His problem wasnt his hands. It was with his head. 

[SeatCushionGame]

38 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Actually Heath Schuler had large hands. He measured 10.63 inches at the combine. His problem wasnt his hands. It was with his head. 

I stand corrected.  I thought he had small hands.....

[SeatCushionGame]

https://youtu.be/XBRFlnib5nU

 

Howell is definitely going to have to learn to slide. He won't last long in the NFL running like that.  I like his toughness though.

[mistertim]

43 minutes ago, SeatCushionGame said:

I stand corrected.  I thought he had small hands.....

 

I think you're mixing up hand size and IQ.

[Skinsinparadise]

Both the major reclamation projects for this season who some in the NFL thought would be fixed by superior coaches: Darnold and Winston look like the same busts they were in the previous organizations. 
 

Sounds like the Saints and Panthers will be heavy in the QB derby this off season. 
 

looks like there will be a lot of competition for QBs.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

Yeah we really need to stop hoping that other teams' castoff busts will come here and suddenly turn into good QBs. That **** just doesn't happen. The closest thing might be Tannehill, but he wasn't a bust, he was a "decent" QB in Miami who didn't fully live up to his draft position when he was there. It also helps that he's now on a team with an unstoppable All Pro RB.

[wit33]

51 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yeah we really need to stop hoping that other teams' castoff busts will come here and suddenly turn into good QBs. That **** just doesn't happen. The closest thing might be Tannehill, but he wasn't a bust, he was a "decent" QB in Miami who didn't fully live up to his draft position when he was there. It also helps that he's now on a team with an unstoppable All Pro RB.

The reality is there is no right way to do it and all options are horrible options from a percentage standpoint. 
 

I think the dual threat young QB has the highest floor. Bring in the Liberty dude and be the Ravens of NFC. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by wit33

[mistertim]

28 minutes ago, wit33 said:

The reality is there is no right way to do it and all options are horrible options from a percentage standpoint. 
 

I think the dual threat young QB has the highest floor. Bring in the Liberty dude and be the Ravens of NFC. 

 

You mean highest ceiling? Willis has a potentially very high ceiling but also a very low floor because of how raw he is.

 

Another thing to remember is that this is WFT, which means that if we bring in a running QB there's probably about a 78% chance that he'll have a season ending injury his first year or maybe even in training camp.

 

I certainly like some of the tools that Willis has, but he didn't look all that great when playing against a big boy team yesterday. I'd much rather go with Corral if possible.

Edited November 7, 2021 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, mistertim said:

Yeah we really need to stop hoping that other teams' castoff busts will come here and suddenly turn into good QBs. That **** just doesn't happen. The closest thing might be Tannehill, but he wasn't a bust, he was a "decent" QB in Miami who didn't fully live up to his draft position when he was there. It also helps that he's now on a team with an unstoppable All Pro RB.

 

Yeah its very rare to turn around a bad QB.  And yep Tannehill wasn't bad in Miami.  He was above average there.  With the Titans he turned from decent to good to very good -- he went up half a peg but that wasn't a transformation. 

 

We could blame this crap organization on not developing QBs but we've had really accomplished coordinators who succeeded before or since elsewhere.  It wasn't that Norv Turner was a moron and Joe Gibbs was a moron when he returned for his 2nd stint or Al Saunders or Kyle and Mike Shanahan or even Jay were all idiots and hence Heath Shuler failed and Jason Campbell failed, and Haskins, and Ramsey and on and on.

 

It was because they drafted the wrong guy.  These failed Qbs haven't gone on and succeeded elsewhere.  Norv was considered all the rage when he came here.  He was considered a QB guru because of how good Aikman was.  Saunders was considered one of the top coordinators at the time.   Mike Shanahan was considered an offensive legend.  Jay was brought here because some were jazzed about him developing Dalton.  Heck even Zorn was billed as one of the top QB coaches in the league at the time.  None of them developed a good QB.   Except Kirk.  Not because they were bad coordinators with the wrong "system" for these QBs.  It was because the QBs simply weren't good.  

 

John Beck even with the brilliant Kyle Shanny remained John Beck when he got his hands on him -- he was still bad.    Sean Payton all of a sudden looks mortal when he has Winston at QB versus Brees.  He didn't transform him.  According to a NO beat guy I listened to, Payton knows he needs to a find a different QB and his "system" isn't fixing just any QB.   The Carolina hot shot offensive coordinator (the supposed innovator who thinks outside the box from LSU) hasn't turned around Sam Darnold.  Darnold actually might be worse in Carolina.

 

I don't argue that good coordinators don't matter.   They certainly do.  But we've had them.  Where we've missed is finding the right guy at QB.  And to me there is zero ambiguity about it.  It's not a debatable point.  Norv, Shanahan, Saunders were considered some of the best offensive minds at the time.   And the dud QBs we've had here have had plenty of time to succeed elsewhere.  Yet they failed.  The only debate left in that mix is Haskins because the sample size is still small -- but its trending that he ends up a bust clearly.  The whole league could have signed him and passed.  Right now he's the third string QB in Pitt.

 

My point is I am not a huge believer in reclamation projects because IMO the #1 factor in a player's success or failure is the actual player.  And if its on the organization IMO, you will still see flashes in the soup that intrigue.  Talent cannot be denied with rare exceptions.  Justin Herbert isn't Justin Herbert because he was drafted by the Chargers.    Heck that coaching staff was canned after his rookie season.  No one is saying who won't kill it when they play for Anthony Lynn?  Or if Anthony Lynn had his hands on Jason Campbell, then he'd be as good as Herbert or whatever.   Justin Herbert is good because he's a special dude as was pointed out by Jim Nagy who had him for Senior Bowl week. 

 

We indeed have a crap organization but that's because we have a crap owner, not because we've had bad coordinators.  And our crap owner has interferred especially with QBs.  As far as the dysfunction filtering to the QB spot.  We cannot have the owner at odds with the coach and his scouting staff by overriding their choices and interferring in the coach-QB relationships.  That's been Dan's Hallmark.  That's not on the coaches.  That's 100% on Dan.

 

Sorry i went in a tangent. My point isn't directed purely to your post, I am just explaining my thinking. 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

The road to sustained success is to draft and develop your own guy. There are exceptions here and there like the Rams and  Bucs this year but who knows how long those teams will stay good. You have to draft and develop your own guy and then you can be a year in year out 10+ win team and hope that every once in a while the stars align and you can win a Super Bowl.

 

Lets stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

[KDawg]

Get a plan B and go for a guy in the draft. The end.

[clskinsfan]

Lets just sign Colt Mccoy back. Dude is balling today.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Yeah I am not a fan of giving up assets for any of the vet QB's. I mean the Raiders asking price for MM was ridiculous.  

Agree with your QB comparisons but am not into bringing in another late 30's starter. 

I do like that Trubisky went to Buffalo of all places.I feel if they go after him, it has to do with what their staff is telling RR. 

 

It's a good point.    If Buffalo's staff sells Ron, I'd put some stock in it.  I really don't care that much which reclamation project they add, if they add one.  My key is draft a young QB. 

 

I would have to be sold from their coaching staff.  But I'd put stock in it if I were.  Otherwise, I can care less that Trubisky flashed in a preseason game with Buffalo.  Preseason involves playing vanilla defenses.  And really all QBs have a good game or two in real time let alone preseason.  Trubisky didn't put one lemon game after another in Chicago.  He had some good games, too.  Heck even Darnold will have an occasional good game.  Colt McCoy helped beat Dallas when he was here.  Helped beat Seattle on the road when he was with the Giants and is helping the Cards beat the 49ers on the road right now.  He has a good day every now and then.  They all do.    But the mark of a good player is consistency.

 

I haven't really sat down and studied Trubisky.  I am not sure if I need to do it or not.  If we hear rumors of interest in the off season, I'll watch him more carefully.  Just watching him casually over the years, the two things that made me sour on him was his accuracy seemed wild outside of the easy stuff in the flat and he wasn't a gamer -- not the guy I want with the ball with the game on the line.  But in fairness to him, I was just causally watching and maybe my take is based by the sample I just happened to watch.  Also I tend to pause when a player is a punchline with a fan base and Trubisky to an extent is.  Not that fans are always right but sometimes they can be if it hits such as extent where that player is lampooned by them.

 

I did watch Mariotta carefully.  And I got some intrigue about him for reasons I've talked about plenty of times in the QB thread last off season, but still I am not jazzzed about him, and he seems to be brittle as heck. 

 

 

[HoggLife]

Desmond Ridder by far looks like the best QB to me. I'd love for us to suck enough this year to be able to draft him. 

[Daniel.redskins]

Ridder is the best all around QB in the draft.  He is a top 10 pick for sure.  Tall, strong arm, athletic, high character.  He also has that baller attitude.  

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

Desmond Ridder by far looks like the best QB to me. I'd love for us to suck enough this year to be able to draft him. 

 

Judging by mocks it should be a piece of cake landing Ridder if he's the guy they want.  Granted its early.  But tough for me to recall a mock where he's top 20 let alone top 10.  but will see.  I like Ridder, I talked him up last season, but he's definitely not my QB 1.  

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

We're going to draft Howell and change our name to the Redwolves and the branding/marketing will be glorious.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

The road to sustained success is to draft and develop your own guy. There are exceptions here and there like the Rams and  Bucs this year but who knows how long those teams will stay good. You have to draft and develop your own guy and then you can be a year in year out 10+ win team and hope that every once in a while the stars align and you can win a Super Bowl.

 

Lets stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

Yep.  we've played it against the odds.

 

A.  We drafted three guys that plenty didn't feel were legit first rounders let alone elite QBs (Campbell, Ramsey, Haskins)

 

B.  We tried the 34 year old aging QBs who were good not great and we were hoping age-injuries wouldn't catch up to them.

 

C.  Once (under Dan) we swung hard for one of the top 2 QBs in the draft.  RG3. 

 

D.  Reclamation guys:  Colt McCoy.  Case Keenum. John Beck.  Rex. 

 

Only once IMO did we play the odds and it worked for a season but ultimately failed.  That was RG3.   So lets swing again.  And by playing odds forget another round of trying to go against the odds and get lucky.  Play the odds.  

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[D’Pablo]

I’m on the Ridder train and have been for a year.

[Anselmheifer]

I want us to draft Kayvon Thibideaux just to see the board explode. 

[The Rook]

I hope UVA QB Brennan Armstrong (ribs) gets to play again this season.  I feel this guy is under the radar and has some serious skills.

 

Goes through progressions, slippery in pocket and can pick up some yards rushing.

In the top five for passing yards (3557 yds) with 27 tds and 8 ints. 

Malik Willis - 2164, 21, 9

Carson Strong - 3197, 25, 7

Matt Corral - 2527, 16, 2

Desmond Ridder - 2121, 20, 5

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/453

 

I know these are not the only things to evaluate on a QB, but if you have watched him for a few games, he really passes the eye test.  I am not promoting him to be the WFT first draft pick, but I sure would like to see a scouting report on him.  I have watched 2 Liberty games and 4 UVA games and Brennan is a better QB than Willis.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[wit33]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

You mean highest ceiling? Willis has a potentially very high ceiling but also a very low floor because of how raw he is.

 

No, I believe the supremely/freak athletes at the QB spot guarantee the acquiring team an elite run game. Providing a unique high floor. Lamar Jackson could not read the field or throw ball accurately in his rookie year and reeled of 6 wins or 7 of 8 to end the year and into the playoffs. 
 

It’s the modern day ground and pound approach.

 

I have no clue about the dude as a prospect

 outside seeing a few talk him up here a bit and watching a 5 minute video. If he’s as talented of a runner as Jackson, Vick, or Murray, then yes, I’m all in. Seems like he has a cannon for an arm as well. 
 

Another team will approach the QB spot like the Ravens, why not Washington. 
 

 

 

 

[markmills67]

We will draft a player that is either from Carolina, or used to live in Carolina, or went on holiday to Carolina or flew over Carolina, or had family born in Carolina. 

 

So Washington drafts in the 1st round of the 2022 NFL draft 

 

A player with a Carolina connection 😁

[Koolblue13]

On 11/6/2021 at 10:38 PM, KDawg said:

When people are saying they don’t like Willis for this team it has very little to do with Turner. Or at least when I say it.

 

His one read and run style, decision making at times, pocket drift are limiting. I don’t know how well he can read a defense. And that’s going to require time.

 

The narrative that this team can’t foster him has little to do with the offensive coaching staff. Or even Rivera. 
 

It’s the city, the media, the fans.

 

People can say the fans don’t matter, but they do. Fassell was virtually unhired due to fans. Jason Wright is under a desk waiting for mortar rounds to stop because of fans. 
 

Then factor in Snyder. Then factor in that if this staff doesn’t win it’s always a possibility that they aren’t back. Now you’re changing the OC on the guy early in his career. Snyder has given too much rope with coaching staffs at times (Jay) and too little at times (Schottenheimer).
 

Now factor in the stuff with Snyder, Congress, the emails, the cheerleaders. There’s a lot. Lots of questions. Lots of issues.

 

For a guy that needs development… significant development, this is a pretty bad place to come. 

I have NO doubt they could create a scheme for Willis. But I don’t think Willis is Cam Newton, either. 

I've kind of been with you on this, but Hurts is starting to look pretty good and he's had some really rocky learning curves and if Philly can weather that, DC definitely can. It'll be interesting to see if they stick with him or go QB this offseason. They'll have a shot at Willis (and anyone else) in the draft and im starting to think its less of a sure thing.

[KDawg]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I've kind of been with you on this, but Hurts is starting to look pretty good and he's had some really rocky learning curves and if Philly can weather that, DC definitely can. It'll be interesting to see if they stick with him or go QB this offseason. They'll have a shot at Willis (and anyone else) in the draft and im starting to think its less of a sure thing.

 

Hurts was pretty decent at getting through his reads in college. 

 

Hurts was a better QB coming out, in my opinion, than Willis. Willis is a superior athlete. That part isn't close, in my opinion.

 

Philly is going to be interesting, agreed.

 

And I'm not down on Willis. I just don't trust our franchise (this really should be read as "Snyder") and our fanbase to allow him to develop as needed. But I have absolutely no problem with Willis as a developmental project for us in a vacuum. I just don't know that we can do it.