2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Some ES Draft Thread favorites showed well last night.  Michael Pittman and Jonathan Taylor looked amazing, but that OL put such an ass whipping on the Jets DL that everyone looked good.  Elijah Moore looked pretty good last night too.  Looked like Terry McLaurin TBH, same quickness and strong hands.  Denzel Mims looked like a bum and it's definitely not a good sign for him that he's so far down the pecking order in that receiver room.

 

For whatever reason Mims is out with them. They should've traded him before the deadline as they clearly aren't planning on using him and he has 2.5 years left on his rookie deal, just move him and get some comp. I think Mims could be something, I'd love to go after him on the cheap (offer like a 6th or something), but there are tons of WR's like that that represent underutilized values (Tyler Johnson in Tampa is another one, Bryan Edwards in Oakland etc). 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Crazy thought here.  What if we drafted a raw QB in the 1st (Willis), and then spent a 3rd rounder getting Matt Ryan?  There have been rumors the Falcons were ready to cut ties with Ryan when the time was right.  Well, they're rebuilding, have a new coach and new GM, and maybe those rumors happen in the offseason?

 

Not crazy. I've thrown it out there too. Judging by me talking about the same thing on the QB thread and getting push back, it migt not be a popular move.  I am not a big Matt Ryan guy.  So in theory I am not a fan of it.  But purely in the context of the hand they got, I like it more and more as I digest it purely compared to the alternatives.  IMO he's likely better than any other veteran scenario we have a shot at.  And if we can get him cheap I'd do it as long as they drafted a QB at the same time.

 

Ben Standig was just on 106.7, and was asked what does he think is best case sceanrio for them at QB and he mentioned this scenario of Ryan. He was then asked worst case sceanrio and he mentioned Trubisky.  He said that he asked the FO about Trubisky and got nos from them so it sounded like he has some doubts that its in play but he didn't slam down that scenario as a possibility. 

 

Personally I can't really think of a veteran who is an above average or even average (high floor) with confidence. If I had to go with a reclamation guy, I'd go Mariotta but the dude always gets hurt.  I am not that high on Trubisky -- too inconsistent.   But I really don't care that much as long as they draft someone.

 

But if I am in Rivera's shoes, I wouldn't bank on a low floor reclamation project.  I'd go for something more reliable than that.   Heck if Fitz can get healthy, he'd be my backup after Ryan if I had to go with a veteran.  Assuming the big QBs like Rodgers aren't coming here.  While drafting a guy.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

On 11/4/2021 at 2:47 PM, Koolblue13 said:

Him and Brisker I'd think would be the top targets. People thought Moehrig was a first rounder last year and he slid back, so who knows.

 

I've been posting on and off about Daxton. I'd love him in the 2nd.   I think there is a shot he's there in the early 2nd.   Safeties tend to fall.  I recall eons ago there was talk Landon Collins woiuld go in the first, McKinney, Moherig.  On and on.

 

One of the upsides of picking early in the draft is your 2nd rounder often ends up a dude that is considered a first round talent. 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I've "watched" 3 Liberty games. I put watched in quotes because I was switching back and forth between a few games, as I often do on Saturdays so I can see multiple different guys.

I do that, too.  And I am not saying everyone needs to do it the way I do it of course.  But for me to get a good feel I just have to watch a game exclusively and just focus on that player.  The flipping around which i do too doesn't do enough for me typically but it does give me a flavor. 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I do that, too.  And I am not saying everyone needs to do it the way I do it of course.  But for me to get a good feel I just have to watch a game exclusively and just focus on that player.  The flipping around which i do too doesn't do enough for me typically but it does give me a flavor. 

 

 

Nice thing about College ball is you can usually find the game on the web somewhere the next or later. They dont seem to enforce the licensing rules like the NFL does. 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been posting on and off about Daxton. I'd love him in the 2nd.   I think there is a shot he's there in the early 2nd.   Safeties tend to fall.  I recall eons ago there was talk Landon Collins woiuld go in the first, McKinney, Moherig.  On and on.

 

One of the upsides of picking early in the draft is your 2nd rounder often ends up a dude that is considered a first round talent. 

 

 

 

 

That was nasty. Yeah, safeties tend to drop. We know Hamilton is going early. Wonder if his injury makes him slide a bit ala Jonathan Allen, not that we could get him since our first is definitely going to be QB. Unless hill absolutely destroys the combine, he should go early 2nd.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am watching Phil Jurkovec play Virginia Tech.  What an odd game.  Reminds me of Weekend at Bernies what they are doing with Jurkovec.  the dude was supposed to be out for the season, they bring him back, he's recovering from a broken hand, and he's more of a decoy than a QB.  It's clear he can't throw with any velocity tonight and the hand is bothering him.  So BC is running like crazy.

 

During commercials I watched one of his games on Youtube.

 

Pros

Plays a bunch under center -- most of the other prospects in this draft are almost pure shot gun QBS

Ball handling is very good

Sells play action really well.  the best I've seen among this drafts QBs thus far.   Reminds me of Mac Jones on that front

Tough dude.  Tough in the pocket.

He's not crazy fast but he's elusive in the pocket and can run some

Some nice off platform throws

You can see him go through progressions, he's not a one read QB

Throws a catchable ball -- nice touch

 

 

Cons

Doesn't step into his throws enough, throws off his backfoot.  A lot of floaters Heinicke style

Throws too much into traffic -- could be INT prone in the pros

Accuracy is inconsistent -- nothing special

Arm talent seemed ordinary -- nothing extraordinary, I didn't see a signature type of throw from him aside from hitting WRs in stride in the flat, fades?

He doesn't always but at times stares and locks into his target

Puts too much touch on some balls

Doesn't let plays die, they can be good at times but sometimes you can get burned by that style in the NFL

 

I got to watch him more, not in love with what I saw but I like some of it.  Looks like he has some gamer to him and gets some style points from me.   He's a baller. 3rd rounder?

 

 

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Nice thing about College ball is you can usually find the game on the web somewhere the next or later. They dont seem to enforce the licensing rules like the NFL does. 

 

Yep.  I like to watch 2-3 games back to back of players when I have time.  You Tube is awesome in recent years on that front.  

Edited November 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[philibusters]

How would you guys rank the 2021 NFL QB draft class at this point?  I think I still have Trevor Lawrence 1, but I may have Mac Jones 2.  Is that an overreaction to a small sample size.

[KDawg]

47 minutes ago, philibusters said:

How would you guys rank the 2021 NFL QB draft class at this point?  I think I still have Trevor Lawrence 1, but I may have Mac Jones 2.  Is that an overreaction to a small sample size.

If we are ranking based on what they’ve done so far statistically?

 

1. Mac

2. Lawrence

3. Fields

4. Wilson

5. Lance

6. Mills

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

If we are ranking based on what they’ve done so far statistically?

 

1. Mac

2. Lawrence

3. Fields

4. Wilson

5. Lance

6. Mills

 

Eh, I want to give incomplete grades to both Lance and Mills.  Lance has barely played and Mills is on an absolute dumpster fire of a roster.

 

Brandin Cooks is a good WR.  But he's the only one on that roster that deserves to be in the NFL.  Their RB group was 32 years old, 30 years old, and 27 years old...and somehow the 27 year old looks like the one most washed up.  Their OL was bad, and is worse given that maybe the entire starting group is on IR?  Geron Christian now might be their best OL.

 

Besides that, all of them have underperformed expectations.  Even Mac.  Mac is what, 9 TD's and 6 Int's despite playing against some terrible defenses.  Dolphins, Jets, Jets again, Texans, and Chargers.  Not a good group of defenses.  Taylor Heinicke has thrown a TD on 4.0% of his passes.  Mac has only thrown one on 3.2% of his passes.  He hasn't been good.  None of the rookies have.

 

They are only rookies though, so who knows who makes that sophomore jump.  Maybe all of them do.

[mistertim]

8 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Eh, I want to give incomplete grades to both Lance and Mills.  Lance has barely played and Mills is on an absolute dumpster fire of a roster.

 

Brandin Cooks is a good WR.  But he's the only one on that roster that deserves to be in the NFL.  Their RB group was 32 years old, 30 years old, and 27 years old...and somehow the 27 year old looks like the one most washed up.  Their OL was bad, and is worse given that maybe the entire starting group is on IR?  Geron Christian now might be their best OL.

 

Besides that, all of them have underperformed expectations.  Even Mac.  Mac is what, 9 TD's and 6 Int's despite playing against some terrible defenses.  Dolphins, Jets, Jets again, Texans, and Chargers.  Not a good group of defenses.  Taylor Heinicke has thrown a TD on 4.0% of his passes.  Mac has only thrown one on 3.2% of his passes.  He hasn't been good.  None of the rookies have.

 

They are only rookies though, so who knows who makes that sophomore jump.  Maybe all of them do.

 

Yeah I'm usually pretty hesitant to even "grade" rookie QBs against the rest of the NFL at all until they're at least midway into their second seasons. We've seen some guys who have played terribly their rookie years and who then light it up in thier second year as well as guys who have looked pretty good their rookie seasons but then went on to slump and not be that great. Then you have some guys like Josh Allen who take a few years to really "get it" but when they do, they look great.

Edited November 6, 2021 by mistertim

[Going Commando]

Henry Ruggs is facing up to 46 years in prison.  Killed a woman and her dog by driving 156 mph with a BAC twice the legal limit.  Kid killed a person and threw his life away in the most senseless and stupid way imaginable.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:13 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

I've only really watched Howell, Corral, Willis, Ridder, and Pickett so far, but of this group, Willis has been the most impressive to me.  I think he's a cut above the others in terms of talent, and that the other four are largely equal and form a second tier.  I see their respective ceilings like this:

 

1 - Willis = Kyler Murray with Vick shiftiness and balance and ability to gear up

2 - Ridder = Dak Prescott.  Right now, he's not the passer that the other four are.  But there is something special about this dude.

3 - Corral = Somewhere between Derek Carr and Drew Brees.  Much bigger arm than late career Brees, but similar stature and similar hyper speed and urgency in the pocket.

4 - Pickett = Stafford but not as strong armed

5 - Howell = Baker Mayfield but not as good of vision and not as patient and creative

 

 

I like any of those five for us, and I think they're all worthy of going in the first round and building around.  I'd favor Willis right now if he's there, because I think he's the one with superstar potential.  But it kind of feels like he'll be QB1 and go before we pick unless the bottom completely falls out on our season.  After him I think I favor Ridder and Corral over Pickett and Howell.  

 

Love reading people's takes about comparisons.  My takes are similar on some, little different on others but I see where you are coming from.  My takes keep changing.  I think some of these guys are close where its hard to seperate these guys compared to most drafts.  I need to watch them more.  And, more importantly which one of these guys have Mac Jones, Herbert type intangibles?  It not all 20-20 hindsight that those guys succeeded beyond expectations, there were some crumbs at the time that led down the path about them. 

 

1.  Corral.  (Zach Wilson-Derrick Carr) I locked into him pretty early this season. I was somewhat intrigued last season and talked about him some here.  He's grown.  I know some think Wilson is already a bust but I saw a good game out of him, he's young, give him time.  Corral doesn't have Zach's arm strength, its more similar to Carr.   Corral isn't quite Zach as for making plays off script but he's close and he's faster than Zach.  Baller.  I am afraid of injuries just like I was with Zach considering their style of play.   Like his makeup.   Quick release -- master of RPOs.  I am not so sure Howell and Pickett's running will translate to the NFL, especially Pickett.  I think Corral will translate on that front.  He has more elusiveness and quickness than them IMO.

 

2.  Willis. (Vick-J. Allen)  Tough to ignore the trend of high upside QBs working out, not all of them, but when they do, man.  Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, Herbert, Josh Allen all had some really strong crtitical opposition before the draft as I mentioned in a different post.  I don't see for example why Lance > Willis.  They both have freakish talent but Willis' running IMO is on an even higher level than Lance. 

 

3.  Ridder. (Dak-Hurts). As a runner he strikes me a cross between Hurts and Dak.  As a passer, I am not sure.  Ridder was one of my guys last year, I talked about him more last year than this one.  I was intrigued by him as a 2nd-3rd rounder then but alas he didn't come out in the draft.   I've liked him but its tough to get out of my mind how many easy type throws he misses in the flat.  His delivery seems labored at times.   Some mock drafters talk him up like he's the closest thing to Josh Allen -- raw talent that needs to be refined.  I get the point but its seems to be hyperbole.  He's definitely talented but not through the roof Josh Allen type talent IMO.  He's another guy who plays with moxie and oomph which is something I can say to different degrees to every QB I mention here.    I like his makeup. 

 

4. Howell (Baker Mayfield-Carr).  I admit I have to watch him more.  I happened to watch one of his better games this season so it might be biasing me.  I think he's a full peg behind Corral.  He plays though somewhat with Corral's style.  Baller.  Runs.  Throws a really nice deep ball.   By reputation though he's not consistent and likely falls down the draft for that reason.

 

5.  Pickett. (Cousins-Keenum)  I go back and forth on him.  i'll record his game today and watch it and try to form a more concrete view.  I am intrigured but there is something that makes me hesitate about him and I can't put my finger on it.  Arm strength more similar to Keenum than Kirk.  Mobility more similar to Keenum.  Him blossoming late coupled with not having that one killer attribute is my hesitation.  But I am intrigued.  Got to see more.

 

Strong and Jurkovec still digesting.  

Edited November 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

I've read multiple times and heard from a NO beat writer on the radio before they were playing us, that Payton doesn't think Winston is the answer.     So they got 3 scouts there.

 

Sean Payton is a lot like McVay that is if he wants a player he goes as aggressive as need be to get their man. 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

9 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Eh, I want to give incomplete grades to both Lance and Mills.  Lance has barely played and Mills is on an absolute dumpster fire of a roster.

 

Brandin Cooks is a good WR.  But he's the only one on that roster that deserves to be in the NFL.  Their RB group was 32 years old, 30 years old, and 27 years old...and somehow the 27 year old looks like the one most washed up.  Their OL was bad, and is worse given that maybe the entire starting group is on IR?  Geron Christian now might be their best OL.

 

Besides that, all of them have underperformed expectations.  Even Mac.  Mac is what, 9 TD's and 6 Int's despite playing against some terrible defenses.  Dolphins, Jets, Jets again, Texans, and Chargers.  Not a good group of defenses.  Taylor Heinicke has thrown a TD on 4.0% of his passes.  Mac has only thrown one on 3.2% of his passes.  He hasn't been good.  None of the rookies have.

 

They are only rookies though, so who knows who makes that sophomore jump.  Maybe all of them do.

 

45 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I'm usually pretty hesitant to even "grade" rookie QBs against the rest of the NFL at all until they're at least midway into their second seasons. We've seen some guys who have played terribly their rookie years and who then light it up in thier second year as well as guys who have looked pretty good their rookie seasons but then went on to slump and not be that great. Then you have some guys like Josh Allen who take a few years to really "get it" but when they do, they look great.

It was an exercise based on now. Not a final opinion. 

[Redskins Reparations]

17 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Crazy thought here.  What if we drafted a raw QB in the 1st (Willis), and then spent a 3rd rounder getting Matt Ryan?  There have been rumors the Falcons were ready to cut ties with Ryan when the time was right.  Well, they're rebuilding, have a new coach and new GM, and maybe those rumors happen in the offseason?

I just had a McNabb flashback.  I think trading draft picks is the reason for the lack of positional depth and talent at key positions thats plagued the organization for years.  We need to be adding draft picks, not trading them for aging veterans to dabble in mediocrity.  That being said…I am all in on adding the best possible GM who is willing to come here and build this team through the draft.  No more bandaids please…

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It was an exercise based on now. Not a final opinion. 

 

Oh I know. I wasn't really even directing that at you or your comment. I was just saying that in general it's so hard to really "grade" rookie QBs compared to vets that I usually give them a while before coming to any sort of conclusion. But obviously that doesn't mean there can't be any opinions or evaluations on how they're currently playing.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Oh I know. I wasn't really even directing that at you or your comment. I was just saying that in general it's so hard to really "grade" rookie QBs compared to vets that I usually give them a while before coming to any sort of conclusion. But obviously that doesn't mean there can't be any opinions or evaluations on how they're currently playing.

I totally agree with you. Just wanted to point out its okay to have some fun sometimes. Life is short.

 

Speaking of fun going to see Eternals so recording Willis Corral

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

15 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said:

I just had a McNabb flashback.  I think trading draft picks is the reason for the lack of positional depth and talent at key positions thats plagued the organization for years.  We need to be adding draft picks, not trading them for aging veterans to dabble in mediocrity.  That being said…I am all in on adding the best possible GM who is willing to come here and build this team through the draft.  No more bandaids please…

 

Ok, so no trading for veteran QB's.  Got it.  If a QB at decent value doesn't drop to us in the draft, what do we do?  Roll with Heinicke again?

 

And we just got a brand new front office.  You want to replace them after what, 6-8 months?

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

45 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Henry Ruggs is facing up to 46 years in prison.  Killed a woman and her dog by driving 156 mph with a BAC twice the legal limit.  Kid killed a person and threw his life away in the most senseless and stupid way imaginable.

 

His fellow first rounder, Arnette is apparently also in hot water.  He supposedly filmed himself waving guns around threatening to kill people.  Then he posted that film online for some reason.

 

Crazy to think that CB class with 6 first rounders has only one player that doesn't suck.  I guess the jury is still out for Okudah.  But two of them aren't on their original teams or aren't in the league anymore.  2 more are healthy scratches each week.  Okudah is always hurt.  AJ Terrell, looks good though.

 

1 out of 6 hit rate.

 

Then you get to the 2nd round and all 3 of those corners were good picks.

 

Draft can be weird.

[method man]

12 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

His fellow first rounder, Arnette is apparently also in hot water.  He supposedly filmed himself waving guns around threatening to kill people.  Then he posted that film online for some reason.

 

Crazy to think that CB class with 6 first rounders has only one player that doesn't suck.  I guess the jury is still out for Okudah.  But two of them aren't on their original teams or aren't in the league anymore.  2 more are healthy scratches each week.  Okudah is always hurt.  AJ Terrell, looks good though.

 

1 out of 6 hit rate.

 

Then you get to the 2nd round and all 3 of those corners were good picks.

 

Draft can be weird.

I don’t know if he is a schematic fit but Okudah could be a good buy low candidate

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Redskins Reparations]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Ok, so no trading for veteran QB's.  Got it.  If a QB at decent value doesn't drop to us in the draft, what do we do?  Roll with Heinicke again?

 

And we just got a brand new front office.  You want to replace them after what, 6-8 months?

Hypothetically, I think Fitz retires after this season and unless there is a quality QB available in free agency, I think it’s a quarterback battle in next years preseason between TH and Kyle Allen. I personally believe Allen is the better QB of the two and we roll with him.  Keep in mind Allen was the starter before breaking his ankle last season.  Following this model, the GM would continue to improve positions of weakness and essentially will entice quality free agents to sign with an up-and-coming Washington Football Team.

 

I would have zero issues with passing on a quarterback in the 2022 draft if it means truly building a team and improving depth.  I can handle another three win over the next two seasons if it means we are in position to draft the best QB available in 2023 or 2024.  Lord knows I have been patient enough with this organization but I doubt Mr. Snyder is.

 

I respect Martin Mayhew but he wouldn’t be my first choice as GM.  Unfortunately, he is tied to Rivera so hopefully he exceeds expectations because I don’t see Rivera leaving for another two seasons at a minimum.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Redskins Reparations

[Koolblue13]

I was upset about turning off the great British baking show for this game, but then I remembered day light savings time exists for some weird reason and it's still noon.

25 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said:

Hypothetically, I think Fitz retires after this season and unless there is a quality QB available in free agency, I think it’s a quarterback battle in next years preseason between TH and Kyle Allen. I personally believe Allen is the better QB of the two and we roll with him.  Keep in mind Allen was the starter before breaking his ankle last season.  Following this model, the GM would continue to improve positions of weakness and essentially will entice quality free agents to sign with an up-and-coming Washington Football Team.

 

I would have zero issues with passing on a quarterback in the 2022 draft if it means truly building a team and improving depth.  I can handle another three win over the next two seasons if it means we are in position to draft the best QB available in 2023 or 2024.  Lord knows I have been patient enough with this organization but I doubt Mr. Snyder is.

 

I respect Martin Mayhew but he wouldn’t be my first choice as GM.  Unfortunately, he is tied to Rivera so hopefully he exceeds expectations because I don’t see Rivera leaving for another two seasons at a minimum.

 

The only way I'm cool passing on a QB is if someone like the broncos or saints offer us an RG3 type mega trade for our first. 

 

I think it buys Ron another year IF they're aggressive in FA, draft a QB in the second or so and its a deal you can't pass up on. We need to be on the plus side of .500 next year, regardless of the QB position.

 

I'd love to bring in Trubisky or Mariotta and sitting on a draft like the eagles are this year.

[mistertim]

It's definiely interesting watching Malik Willis and Matt Corral playing essentially side by side right now. You can see clear differences. This goes to something @KDawgnoted in an earlier post. Willis looks like a running back who also plays QB and passes sometimes. He's absolutely a one-read-and-run guy. Corral looks like a QB who also happens to be able to run well sometimes.