2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

Honestly, I'd be fine if we signed a QB, drafted one of yalls top 3 and then someone like Armstrong in the 3rd or 4rth as well. Like 2012. Did we even have a veteran QB that season? Colt maybe?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

Check out Strong as well, assuming his knee holds up. 

His knee is what takes him off my first round list. For now. We'll see how the process folds out, too. 

[DWinzit]

21 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Honestly, I'd be fine if we signed a QB, drafted one of yalls top 3 and then someone like Armstrong in the 3rd or 4rth as well. Like 2012. Did we even have a veteran QB that season? Colt maybe?

If things continue I would be ok with a clean QB slate. I figure they will keep TH and/or Allen as a fairly cheap vet. They definitely need at least two young new faces at QB to be able to move forward.

 

Good question on 2012, not certain but maybe Sexy Rexy? 

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

If things continue I would be ok with a clean QB slate. I figure they will keep TH and/or Allen as a fairly cheap vet. They definitely need at least two young new faces at QB to be able to move forward.

 

Good question on 2012, not certain but maybe Sexy Rexy? 

 

Just Griffin and Cousins

[Skinsinparadise]

I've been team Corral just about from the jump of the college season.    I can't wait to see Saturday's match up with Willis.

 

I am still forming my opinion on Willis.  I am not all in, yet.  This game is big and will go a long way for what I think of him.  Seems like the hip position on different threads is to see Willis as overrated.

 

I guess i am a contrarian on Willis, I think his ceiling is sick and that intrigues me and intrigues me a lot.   I like Corral a lot but IMO he doesn't have a sick ceiling.    I don't think some of the mock drafters including McShay and a PFF dude I listened to talk about the QBs on a radio show last night -- are off with that Willis might be the first QB taken in the draft and they think its justified. 

 

I know on the QB thread, someone thought my position that Willis as a runner is on a sick level/great was a ridiculous take.  lol, but heck I've had other views that some thought were absurd, and heck some of them actually worked out to be true to my "crazy" take, so I am not bowing to peer pressure on this .  At least not yet, but I'd sour on Willis if he puts in a lemon game this Saturday.

 

I felt the same way early on about Corral, I wanted to see him pass certain tests, and he did. 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've been team Corral just about from the jump of the college season.    I can't wait to see Saturday's match up with Willis.

 

I am still forming my opinion on Willis.  I am not all in, yet.  This game is big and will go a long way for what I think of him.  Seems like the hip position on different threads is to see Willis as overrated.

 

I guess i am a contrarian on Willis, I think his ceiling is sick and that intrigues me and intrigues me a lot.   I like Corral a lot but IMO he doesn't have a sick ceiling.    I don't think some of the mock drafters including McShay and a PFF dude I listened to talk about the QBs on a radio show last night -- are off with that Willis might be the first QB taken in the draft and they think its justified. 

 

I know on the QB thread, someone thought my position that Willis as a runner is on a sick level/great was a ridiculous take.  lol, but heck I've had other views that some thought were absurd, and heck some of them actually worked out to be true to my "crazy" take, so I am not bowing to peer pressure on this .  At least not yet, but I'd sour on Willis if he puts in a lemon game this Saturday.

 

I felt the same way early on about Corral, I wanted to see him pass certain tests, and he did. 

 

 

 

 

I think it's pretty unfair to label Willis as overrated. I also think it's unfair to refer to it as "hip".

 

Willis has a high ceiling and a very low floor. I like him as a prospect for a great many teams.

 

Not ours.

[Going Commando]

That is some Michael Vick stuff right there.  You can't really defend it.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

If things continue I would be ok with a clean QB slate. I figure they will keep TH and/or Allen as a fairly cheap vet. They definitely need at least two young new faces at QB to be able to move forward.

 

Good question on 2012, not certain but maybe Sexy Rexy? 

 

You just need one guy, and you need to stick with him.  If you give coaches an option to hedge when adversity strikes, they will abandon the development of their prospect.  In none of the cases where recent prospects have or are currently turning into the bright young stars of the game (Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Murray) did their teams pick two prospects, or bring in vets that could actually threaten their job security.  And if they had a vet like that already, then they shipped them out.  The ONLY way to successfully develop a stud prospect is for the coaching staff to wed themselves to the guy.  And that's what needs to happen with the Rivera regime.  No more hedging, it will never pan out.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think it's pretty unfair to label Willis as overrated. I also think it's unfair to refer to it as "hip".

 

Willis has a high ceiling and a very low floor. I like him as a prospect for a great many teams.

 

Not ours.

 

My opinion has been ridiculed from multiple people for pumping up Willis on the QB thread.  I got hit for no one else, just Willis.   

 

I got no problem with yours or any opinion about any player.  You weren't who I was thinking of when I made that point.   I just noticed that there is a pushback on Willis from some. 

 

 I was thinking this morning about the predicament this team is with fans.  I like some of these young QBs but I admit even the dude I've been touting the most, Matt Corral, will unlikely bring fans back, at least not right away.   Malik on the other hand might be the perfect tonic.  This organization was at its peak under Dan in 2012 -- RG3 was exciting. Malik IMO is the most exciting of the prospects.  I am not saying I am in on him. i am getting there though.  I want to see how he does this Saturday first.   Again if he bombs I'll sour on him some.  But I am very intrigued. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

That is some Michael Vick stuff right there.  You can't really defend it.

 

That's exactly the take I gave, that was my comparison, and I got mocked for it on the QB take as that being absurd.  😀

Edited November 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

That's exactly the take I gave, that was my comparison, and I got mocked for it on the QB take as that being absurd.  😀

 

Really?  Maybe people don't remember Michael Vick then.  Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson had/have their Michael Vick moments at times, but these highlights from Malik Willis I've seen on twitter and ESPN are the best Vick impression since Vick.  Just sheer backyard creativity.  The same reactivity and quickness causing the same kind of panic and frustration among defenders.

 

I like what I've seen from some of the other QB prospects, and I haven't watched games of Willis yet, just highlights.  But he blows me away.

[method man]

To KDawg’s point, Willis needs to go to a well run org like the Steelers or Saints

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Really?  Maybe people don't remember Michael Vick then.  Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson had/have their Michael Vick moments at times, but these highlights from Malik Willis I've seen on twitter and ESPN are the best Vick impression since Vick.  Just sheer backyard creativity.  The same reactivity and quickness causing the same kind of panic and frustration among defenders.

 

I like what I've seen from some of the other QB prospects, and I haven't watched games of Willis yet, just highlights.  But he blows me away.

 

Yep. Me too.  The elusiveness-bouncing off of defenders among other things reminded me of him.  Video-game level highlights.  Sadly I was present for the Monday Night Massacre football game when Vick carved us up.  

[Going Commando]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think it's pretty unfair to label Willis as overrated. I also think it's unfair to refer to it as "hip".

 

Willis has a high ceiling and a very low floor. I like him as a prospect for a great many teams.

 

Not ours.

 

Why not us though?  The only QB whose generated any explosive plays in our offense is Heinicke, and it's mostly triggered off of his ad-lib creativity and athletic movement skills.  Willis looks like he's the Jeff Bezos man's version of Heinicke.  I know I need to watch more, but I am tantalized with the highlights.  If that's who he is, then I feel like Willis could be a star for a team like ours, where we don't really have a lot of offensive structure or many quality weapons outside of McLaurin.  Our QB is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting.

[Going Commando]

That arm with that blazing fast release 😮

 

He kind of looks like Kyler Murray too.  Vick had small stature and hands and Willis is built thicker like Kyler Murray is.

 

It's not like this guy isn't pedigreed either.  He was an Auburn transfer and VT recruit.  Probably just a late bloomer, and I assume he must be really religious and just found a safe home at Liberty.

 

My gut says this kid is QB1 and that he feels like a top five pick.  Could have been Howell but he put out a lot of god awful film at the beginning of the season, and he's just not as gifted as Willis.  I feel like it's crystallizing for Willis the way it did for Murray in 2019.

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep. Me too.  The elusiveness-bouncing off of defenders among other things reminded me of him.  Video-game level highlights.  Sadly I was present for the Monday Night Massacre football game when Vick carved us up.  

I was at the Redskins game in Philly when he was injured for good and carted off the field and it was awesome to experience. **** that guy.

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Why not us though?  The only QB whose generated any explosive plays in our offense is Heinicke, and it's mostly triggered off of his ad-lib creativity and athletic movement skills.  Willis looks like he's the Jeff Bezos man's version of Heinicke.  I know I need to watch more, but I am tantalized with the highlights.  If that's who he is, then I feel like Willis could be a star for a team like ours, where we don't really have a lot of offensive structure or many quality weapons outside of McLaurin.  Our QB is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting.

 

I don't think we're stable enough as a franchise to really foster a guy like Willis. I also don't believe we are creative enough schematically to foster him. He is a Mike Vick type (this weekend will tell us more if that is a good read or a false read based on competition, but I think it's going to be a fairly true read). I don't love his accuracy at times. I think he's more of a runner at this stage than Jackson (again I will give my disclaimer: I need to do a full deep dive. This is me watching some games where I can and highlights). 

 

I just don't think we have the support necessary to bring in a big time mobile quarterback. I know many here think that's the exact route we need to go, and I respect that mindset and thought process. I just think that is dangerous given the circumstances this franchise is in.

 

Now, the pros of him being here?

 

Electric/excitement

High upside

Franchise level player that would be highly marketable

 

Downside?

 

Potential developmental curve

Lack of support

Potential lack of creativity to utilize his tools

 

I like him a lot as a prospect. If I were giving my ratings for who I like overall in the draft and not for WFT he'd be among the top 2. Right there with Corral. But for us the foundation around him seems a bit weak to me to support a guy like him. And our fans/media would eat him alive if he needed developmental time. It would be the opposite of Josh Allen. 

[Going Commando]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I want to see how he does this Saturday first.   Agan=in if he bombs I'll sour on him some.  But I am very intrigued. 

 

I am very intrigued too.  And I wouldn't let one game color your feelings on him too much.  Don't want to fall in love after one game, nor fall out of love.

[Renegade7]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep. Me too.  The elusiveness-bouncing off of defenders among other things reminded me of him.  Video-game level highlights.  Sadly I was present for the Monday Night Massacre football game when Vick carved us up.  

 

I remember being in class with ESPN sportscast up and I thought the scoreboard was broken or glitching : /

 

And I remember being at the game against Atlanta when Vick came to town.  It wasn't like he lit us up in the air, he jus kept slipping away from us.  As amazing as that was, the NFL has evolved and QBs have to do more then just dominate with their legs. 

 

So I hope Willis has an NFL arm to match.

[Renegade7]

21 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I am very intrigued too.  And I wouldn't let one game color your feelings on him too much.  Don't want to fall in love after one game, nor fall out of love.

 

Idk, man, isn't ole miss an sec team?  Thats probably as close to an NFL team as Willis will play this year, him bombing would have to be a red flag, imo.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Renegade7

[DWinzit]

39 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You just need one guy, and you need to stick with him.  If you give coaches an option to hedge when adversity strikes, they will abandon the development of their prospect.  In none of the cases where recent prospects have or are currently turning into the bright young stars of the game (Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Murray) did their teams pick two prospects, or bring in vets that could actually threaten their job security.  And if they had a vet like that already, then they shipped them out.  The ONLY way to successfully develop a stud prospect is for the coaching staff to wed themselves to the guy.  And that's what needs to happen with the Rivera regime.  No more hedging, it will never pan out.

 

I don't disagree if they can get themselves someone they see as a "bright young star" so they could wed themselves to him. If they didn't feel strong enough last year to go after Fields or Mac Jones, whats to say they can be comfortable with one this year? 

 

I not feeling going into next season with TH, Allen and #1 pick right now. It TH shows more or Allen comes in and shows something later this year than maybe, but if things remain the same, one of they should be gone and bring a second player in be it prospect or FA. 

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Idk, man, isn't ole miss and sec team?  Thats probably as close to an NFL team as Willis will play this year, him bombing would have to be a red flag, imo.

 

Ole Miss is SEC and a top 25 opponent, but he already has a bigger win under his belt from last season in #9 Coastal Carolina.  That doesn't sound as impressive of a win as it actually was.  They were one of the best defenses in the country last season and they shut down a monster BYU offense earlier in the year and held Zach Wilson to his worst game that season.  Looks like Willis beat them pretty much on his own.

 

The other thing is he's probably not working with a lot of surrounding talent at Liberty.  He can be individually brilliant and his team still be completely overmatched.  That's how it was for Kyler Murray against Bama in the CFP, and how it was for Vick against Florida State in the NC game.  So it wouldn't be a red flag to see him struggle to move the chains and score or lose against a team that is clearly far more talented.

[Renegade7]

18 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Ole Miss is SEC and a top 25 opponent, but he already has a bigger win under his belt from last season in #9 Coastal Carolina.  That doesn't sound as impressive of a win as it actually was.  They were one of the best defenses in the country last season and they shut down a monster BYU offense earlier in the year and held Zach Wilson to his worst game that season.  Looks like Willis beat them pretty much on his own.

 

Hate to sound cynical, but that was last year, what about this year?

 

18 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The other thing is he's probably not working with a lot of surrounding talent at Liberty.  He can be individually brilliant and his team still be completely overmatched.  That's how it was for Kyler Murray against Bama in the CFP, and how it was for Vick against Florida State in the NC game.  So it wouldn't be a red flag to see him struggle to move the chains and score or lose against a team that is clearly far more talented.

 

I have the upmost respect for the homework some of yall do in this thread.  Same time, im not sure how to process this part of your post.  I guess it depends on how he struggles, but this feels like a built in get out of jail free card.  There is a difference between guys not getting open and Willis panicking, for sure.

[Going Commando]

36 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I like him a lot as a prospect. If I were giving my ratings for who I like overall in the draft and not for WFT he'd be among the top 2. Right there with Corral. But for us the foundation around him seems a bit weak to me to support a guy like him. And our fans/media would eat him alive if he needed developmental time. It would be the opposite of Josh Allen. 

 

I get that sentiment 100% and share a similar anxiety about our organizational stability and capacity to develop prospects.  Do you remember Allen's first playoff game, against Houston, where he made a really bad mental mistake trying to make a big play and attempted a janky improvised lateral that resulted in a game-losing fumble?  Can you imagine if he had made that mistake as the QB of the WFT?  That would have been it for him with our organization and our fanbase.  He just would have been done here.

 

Not for them.  That fanbase was fully bought into him and showed constant support.  And that organization was fully committed to him.  So that mistake was just a learning experience on the road to stardom for him and they didn't waste him and his talent.

 

I fully agree we need to build in far more support for our QB prospect than we have right now.  I don't like the quality of our weapons and I think the only thing that has really improved for our offense since we picked Dwayne Haskins in 2019 is the quality and depth of the OL.  And even that is still not as good as I would want it to be.  I'm hoping Curtis Samuel pans out as another big time weapon but I can't count on that yet, and I think we need to treat him like finding an unexpected 20 dollar bill in your pants after you take them out of the dryer.

 

But the reason I'm starting to like the idea of Malik Willis is because I have so little faith in our offensive coaching and personnel.  Turner has no creativity or instincts and we only get scheme and situational calling advantage against the worst defensive staffs in the NFL.  I think we need a QB who can make magic with a crap script in order to be explosive on offense.  And I think getting a guy from a football backwater who is used to doing everything himself because one of his teammates is losing a match up every snap would make his transition here easier.

 

I wouldn't just throw him out there next year though.  If I were architecting this thing and had a high enough pick to draft Willis, the way I would try and thread the needles is pick Willis, then probably bring Fitzy back for next year, or someone similar to go in as the starter.  Then I would use the rest of my resources to try and load up on as much offensive talent specifically at RB and TE and deep threat WR as I can this offseason and next.  When the time comes to play Willis--and we'll know that bridge when we arrive at it--I run a remedial offense like Baltimore did with Jackson his first two years or so.  I need like three TEs and three backs of legit quality to do it, and hopefully I'll be close to that by then.  And I don't worry about people complaining about the offense not having the ability to come back from deficits yadda yadda, all I worry about is if we're hitting certain benchmarks in the run game and winning more games than we're losing.  Then by year three or four you open up the playbook and diversify the offense and make the big move to bring in high quality receivers and run a fully matured scheme that will begin your window of contention.  Then I keep that core of playmakers in place, make sure my OL pipeline stays stocked, and focus on building up the D with draft picks.

 

But the very first step of the build has to be picking Willis with that first rounder.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I am very intrigued too.  And I wouldn't let one game color your feelings on him too much.  Don't want to fall in love after one game, nor fall out of love.

 

You are right about that.  I've watched one full game.   And the highlights.  The game I watched showcased the highlights was no fluke.   Maybe because I am so high on Corral and intrigued by Malik that i've been looking forward to this game for weeks.  So I might have it built up too much in my mind. 

 

I know there are mixed views on Rivera but i've listened to him talk about defending mobile QBs and how hard they are for defenses to stop.  Between that and other interviews, if anything I pigenhole Rivera as a dude who would do better with a mobile-running QB versus a pocket passer.  I think these type of passers are closer to his wheelhouse versus this being the types that befuddle him. 

 

I think some are so used to thinking about Jay and his offense.  Yeah for Jay, he's a pocket passer WCO kind of guy.  Jay flat out said he doesn't love the RO and prefers a pocket passer.  Rivera's best success came from RO-RPO.  Cam was Carolina's team.  I don't think that escapes Ron judging by some of his interviews.  Ditto Hurney who drafted Cam.

 

 

 

46 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

The other thing is he's probably not working with a lot of surrounding talent at Liberty.  He can be individually brilliant and his team still be completely overmatched.  That's how it was for Kyler Murray against Bama in the CFP, and how it was for Vick against Florida State in the NC game.  So it wouldn't be a red flag to see him struggle to move the chains and score or lose against a team that is clearly far more talented.

 

I didn't really pay a heck of a lot attention to the O line in the game I watched but the PFF guy who studied Willis and apparently knows the grades of different players too on that team was crapping on Liberty's O line. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

30 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I get that sentiment 100% and share a similar anxiety about our organizational stability and capacity to develop prospects.  Do you remember Allen's first playoff game, against Houston, where he made a really bad mental mistake trying to make a big play and attempted a janky improvised lateral that resulted in a game-losing fumble?  Can you imagine if he had made that mistake as the QB of the WFT?  That would have been it for him with our organization and our fanbase.  He just would have been done here.

 

Not for them.  That fanbase was fully bought into him and showed constant support.  And that organization was fully committed to him.  So that mistake was just a learning experience on the road to stardom for him and they didn't waste him and his talent.

 

I fully agree we need to build in far more support for our QB prospect than we have right now.  I don't like the quality of our weapons and I think the only thing that has really improved for our offense since we picked Dwayne Haskins in 2019 is the quality and depth of the OL.  And even that is still not as good as I would want it to be.  I'm hoping Curtis Samuel pans out as another big time weapon but I can't count on that yet, and I think we need to treat him like finding an unexpected 20 dollar bill in your pants after you take them out of the dryer.

 

But the reason I'm starting to like the idea of Malik Willis is because I have so little faith in our offensive coaching and personnel.  Turner has no creativity or instincts and we only get scheme and situational calling advantage against the worst defensive staffs in the NFL.  I think we need a QB who can make magic with a crap script in order to be explosive on offense.  And I think getting a guy from a football backwater who is used to doing everything himself because one of his teammates is losing a match up every snap would make his transition here easier.

 

I wouldn't just throw him out there next year though.  If I were architecting this thing and had a high enough pick to draft Willis, the way I would try and thread the needles is pick Willis, then probably bring Fitzy back for next year, or someone similar to go in as the starter.  Then I would use the rest of my resources to try and load up on as much offensive talent specifically at RB and TE and deep threat WR as I can this offseason and next.  When the time comes to play Willis--and we'll know that bridge when we arrive at it--I run a remedial offense like Baltimore did with Jackson his first two years or so.  I need like three TEs and three backs of legit quality to do it, and hopefully I'll be close to that by then.  And I don't worry about people complaining about the offense not having the ability to come back from deficits yadda yadda, all I worry about is if we're hitting certain benchmarks in the run game and winning more games than we're losing.  Then by year three or four you open up the playbook and diversify the offense and make the big move to bring in high quality receivers and run a fully matured scheme that will begin your window of contention.  Then I keep that core of playmakers in place, make sure my OL pipeline stays stocked, and focus on building up the D with draft picks.

 

But the very first step of the build has to be picking Willis with that first rounder.

 

IF this is the way I did it I'd be on board.

 

This is where the Mitch Trubisky's of the world come into play for us. 

 

You add Trubisky, Mariota, Winston... no they probably aren't going to transform our team. But they are capable to take the reigns until Willis would be ready.

 

If they did it this way, pending a full evaluation on him and just basing this on my feelings at the moment... I'd be glad to have Willis.