2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Forever A Redskin]

43 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Your first post.   An interesting one to ponder on but Olave and Terry are close friends.  However, Wilson is better, IMO than Olave but the nod may go to Olave rather than Wilson and Wilson also is probably drafted before Olave.  We are at an excellent position to trade down and I HOPE we do as it would allow us to address multiple position with more talented players if we draft the right ones.    My question to you is who trades with us, IYO and specifics would be welcomed.  I love Andersen and hope we draft him.  I don't think he last to the 3rd and is drafted in the 2nd round.  Andersen is so talented already after being a QB, RB, catching passes and playing ILB for a short period of time, even at his size with his speed I agree he could play nickel backer.  He can be used all over the place.  O and D.  I like Bellinger a lot and think he goes higher than projected anywhere from  late 4th through 5th round.  Take a look at the RB from BYU.  He's a bull and can catch the ball out of the backfield.  He always moves forward and never backwards.  Tyler Allegier runs faster than his tested 40 time, I think.  Again, watch his tape.  Please give me your thoughts on a trade down?  Thanks.   

 

Terry and Olaves friendship makes the interest APPEAR legitimate. It's honestly the perfect smoke screen for other teams in love with Olave to trade up.

 

I personally could see the Steelers coming up to grab a QB, or the Chiefs/Packers jumping up to draft a WR at 11.

 

My dream scenario is the Lions trading 32 and 34 to us plus a third this year or next year. Puts us right in the sweet spot in the meat of this draft.

 

I too love the BYU kid, he's on my list of favorites in the later rounds as a complimentary back.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Going Commando, I figure you will like this.  I think you and Ledyard have similar tastes in evaluating prospects.  He’s WAY DOWN on Walker.  Heck, I’m his latest mock, he has us passing on Lloyd (whom he loves) for Jordan Davis.

 

https://www.pewterreport.com/bucs-briefing-2022-nfl-draft-edge-rankings-grades/

 

I couldn't agree with him more.  Walker's stock is one of the most stark examples of "emperor's new clothes" bad groupthink I can remember.  The kid goes from day 2 pick to consensus top 5 selection after the combine and it's like everyone is tacitly citing everyone else as the justification for why, but who is actually banging the table for him?  No one would, because his tape is not any good.  He is the epitome of "just a guy" with marginal production in a Georgia front (with two superstars and three other NFL players) who ran a fast 40 and 3 cone and suddenly he has the best draft stock of anyone on that team?  It's utterly irrational, and a good demonstration of what a minefield the combine can be.  Which is why I'm praying the Giants draft him.

 

I think his rise was also a product of the NFL getting too down on Kayvon Thibodeaux.  Thibs is a horse's ass but he's still three times the player that Walker is, and some lucky team in the early teens is going to end up with the next Khalil Mack while some other team in the top five gets the next Dante Fowler.

[RWJ]

As each day goes by a trade seems to me something that will become reality on Thursday night.  I just hope we have the personnel to work through the process like Howie did/does with Philly and get decent trade value out of #11.  I haven't researched Mayhew or Hurney's background on draft trades.  

 

Update:  I'll add to this by researching it.  Here's an appetizer from the Panthers.  Don't look good so far.  Some are before RR and Hurney.  

 

12 Biggest Draft Day Mistakes in Carolina Panthers' History | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

Edited April 9, 2022 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

I like Skyy Moore a lot but no way he’s going that early. Late first maybe 

 

[Warhead36]

I think drafting Olave is more a sign to McLaurin like "hey, you've got influence here, and we're  gonna take your lil bro so you guys can wreck the league together for the next 5 years." 

 

I feel like he's gonna be the pick but we will end up trading out of 11. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Warhead36

[Forever A Redskin]

32 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think drafting Olave is more a sign to McLaurin like "hey, you've got influence here, and we're  gonna take your lil bro so you guys can wreck the league together for the next 5 years." 

 

I feel like he's gonna be the pick but we will end up trading out of 11. 

 

I just think drafting a WR that you know going into it doesn't have the potential to be a WR1 in the 1st round is a waste. Is it a safe pick? Sure. But I feel like Olave isnt much more exciting than a sophomore Dyami Brown to me.

 

Olave is also more of the same of what we already have in the WR room. We only have one big threat in Cam Sims. I'd rather draft a Pickens/Watkins. A big WR that compliments Terry well but also have potential to break out into a WR1 themselves.

 

 

[757SeanTaylor21]

Why do you feel like you need a "big threat" when you have great route runners getting wide open? 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

38 minutes ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

I just think drafting a WR that you know going into it doesn't have the potential to be a WR1 in the 1st round is a waste. Is it a safe pick? Sure. But I feel like Olave isnt much more exciting than a sophomore Dyami Brown to me.

 

Olave is also more of the same of what we already have in the WR room. We only have one big threat in Cam Sims. I'd rather draft a Pickens/Watkins. A big WR that compliments Terry well but also have potential to break out into a WR1 themselves.

 

 

 

I don't think, in a vacuum, Olave can be a legit WR1 for a team. But personnel fit and scheme fit can elevate someone's talent to where they produce more than they would normally. Lots of examples of HoF players or guys on the cusp who were only that productive because the scheme and the talent around them were just that good of a fit.

 

Check out Odell Beckham Jr.  He looks washed in Cleveland, ACL tear too.  But then he suddenly looks pretty good again once he goes to a team with a QB and a scheme that can utilize his talents.  Rookie contract Odell would have not done much with Baker Mayfield and Cleveland's offense either.  Odell thrives on choice routes, but Baker can't read those well and Cleveland's scheme offers little opportunities for them.

 

In a vacuum, Olave isn't a WR1.  But I think he could produce like one with the talent we have on offense and hopefully a scheme that can use it.

 

It would be a ridiculous trio of WR's running in the 4.3's we would have.  While short stuff isn't Olaves strong suit.  That is Curtis Samuels strong suit, and Terry can handle that well too.  Olave (and Jameson Williams) do offer the intermediate/deep areas of the field value that Wentz prefers to target.

 

He fits Wentz well.  And his weakness is covered up with other talent on the team being good there.  Honestly, does it matter if he's not a good shallow crosser or screen guy if we have McKissic, Gibson, Samuel, and Terry who can all do that well?  What extra value do we get from having a 5th target who can do damage near the LoS?  4 is more than enough to keep defenses focused on it.

 

I've got Olave > Wilson as I think he fits the other players, QB, and scheme better.  I do think London is a better overall talent to where he's my #1 in this draft.  But Olave can do damage with this team.  The offense is going to hum with his skillset.

 

Wilson has talent.  He's got better hard plant and burst at a hard angle.  But Olave can keep speed better through cuts on less hard angles.  He can ramp back up to max on those faster than most can.  That smooth speed would like nice with how Wentz operates.

[Going Commando]

Kenneth Walker is one of the best players in the class.  Breece Hall is an incredible touchdown scoring machine with elite size and open field speed (for being as big as he is).  But he does not have Walker's sheer creativity and elusiveness.  There are several nice rotation backs in this class who could fill a role sometime in their rookie contracts.  Walker is a future star.  He presses the hole at a different speed and with a different level of creativity than we've seen with any of our backs since Portis.  His ability to cutback and reverse field after losing the numbers game playside is as good as it gets.  It is just instantaneous, shot out of a cannon speed in how he makes up his mind, changes his directions, and accelerates.

 

This class has a lot of really good prospects at non-premium positions and is pretty good on defense as a whole.  It has a lot of good but seriously flawed wide receivers in it, a couple of really nice OLs, and two really good backs.  Walker has a legit case for being the best offensive player in the class.  Getting him at 47 would be the steal of the draft.  He's got All-Pro upside and if we get him, we'll have added a huge amount of playmaking to the offense between him and Carson Wentz.  Could be one of the most brilliant playmaking backfields in the NFL.

 

The grandslam draft scenario for me is to trade down into the 20s and add a pick in the 30s and go:

 

20s - Linderbaum

30s - Walker

47 - Metchie

 

Follow up with Rasheed Walker in the 4th and a TE like Kolar in the 6th and I think you will have absolutely loaded up the offense.

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

And there are plenty of other complimentary backs later in the draft as well. 

 

Walker and Hall aren't complimentary backs.  Those kids are future stars who would be lead backs in our rotation as rookies.  They are way better than Gibson.

[Going Commando]

On 4/8/2022 at 8:41 AM, Warhead36 said:

For those saying they like Olave but not at 11, where would you be comfortable picking him?

 

~20.

 

Tier 1:

1 - Hutchinson

2 - Davis

3 - Lloyd

4 - Hamilton

5 - Linderbaum

6 - Thibs

 

Tier 2:

7 - Ekwonu

8 - Gardner

9 - Willis

10 - Stingley

11 - Cross

12 - Pickett

13 - Jermaine Johnson

14 - Neal

 

Tier 3:

15 - Garrett Wilson

16 - London

17 - Dean

18 - Booth? (not real confident about this take)

19 - Kenyon Green

20 - Burks

21 - Olave

 

Tier 4:

22 - Kenneth Walker

23 - Corral

24 - Devonte Wyatt

25 - Karlaftis

 

Tier 5:

26 - Zion Johnson

27 - Breece Hall

28 - Metchie

29 - Elam

30 - Jameson Williams

31 - Dotson

32 - Penning

 

Tier 6:

33: Ridder

34: Dax Hill

35: Mafe

36: Howell

37: McDuffie

38: Skyy Moore

39: Travis Jones

40: Travon Walker

41: Christian Watson

 

This is a generally bad and shallow class.  There are only ~24 guys I would feel confident in giving first round grades in a normal year.  In that context, reaching for Olave at 11 feels less dire since I do think he's a first rounder.  Especially if you can bag a second first rounder like Kenneth Walker at 47.  It'd still be a reach though.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Going Commando

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

I just think drafting a WR that you know going into it doesn't have the potential to be a WR1 in the 1st round is a waste. Is it a safe pick? Sure. But I feel like Olave isnt much more exciting than a sophomore Dyami Brown to me.

 

Olave is also more of the same of what we already have in the WR room. We only have one big threat in Cam Sims. I'd rather draft a Pickens/Watkins. A big WR that compliments Terry well but also have potential to break out into a WR1 themselves.

 

 

Out of curiosity, I looked up Ridley’s stats since he seems a pretty good comp for Olave (I don’t follow the rest of the league that closely usually).  Seasons of 800+, 800+, then 1300+.  Now, I only know part of the context - like Jones only playing 9 games in 2020, and the high volume for Ridley that year (though I believe he had 15ypc), but I’d absolutely take those numbers in a vacuum.

I hear you though about upside.  We could very well regret passing over other prospects for Olave if we went that route.

 

I do like that he has a built in mentor (hopefully for a while) in Terry, and proficiency in route running (IMV) points to someone very serious about their craft.  I’m very curious about the “D” score on football IQ/interviews above though.

Edited April 9, 2022 by skinny21

[sebestian]

 

After trading from pick No. 11 to No. 16, the Washington Commanders nab Ohio State wide receiver Chris Olave, and gain three more draft picks in the process

[KDawg]

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Kenneth Walker is one of the best players in the class.  Breece Hall is an incredible touchdown scoring machine with elite size and open field speed (for being as big as he is).  But he does not have Walker's sheer creativity and elusiveness.  There are several nice rotation backs in this class who could fill a role sometime in their rookie contracts.  Walker is a future star.  He presses the hole at a different speed and with a different level of creativity than we've seen with any of our backs since Portis.  His ability to cutback and reverse field after losing the numbers game playside is as good as it gets.  It is just instantaneous, shot out of a cannon speed in how he makes up his mind, changes his directions, and accelerates.

 

This class has a lot of really good prospects at non-premium positions and is pretty good on defense as a whole.  It has a lot of good but seriously flawed wide receivers in it, a couple of really nice OLs, and two really good backs.  Walker has a legit case for being the best offensive player in the class.  Getting him at 47 would be the steal of the draft.  He's got All-Pro upside and if we get him, we'll have added a huge amount of playmaking to the offense between him and Carson Wentz.  Could be one of the most brilliant playmaking backfields in the NFL.

 

The grandslam draft scenario for me is to trade down into the 20s and add a pick in the 30s and go:

 

20s - Linderbaum

30s - Walker

47 - Metchie

 

Follow up with Rasheed Walker in the 4th and a TE like Kolar in the 6th and I think you will have absolutely loaded up the offense.

Are you talking about two different Walkers? A few posts above you blast him. Now you say he’s a great talent. Absolutely must be talking about a different guy. Were you talking about Rasheed above?

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Are you talking about two different Walkers? A few posts above you blast him. Now you say he’s a great talent. Absolutely must be talking about a different guy. Were you talking about Rasheed above?

 

The Walker he is negative on is Travon Walker (DE, Georgia)

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

The Walker he is negative on is Travon Walker (DE, Georgia)

Oh. Ya. I agree with that. I don’t see much with him.

[CommDownMan]

7 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I don't think, in a vacuum, Olave can be a legit WR1 for a team. But personnel fit and scheme fit can elevate someone's talent to where they produce more than they would normally. Lots of examples of HoF players or guys on the cusp who were only that productive because the scheme and the talent around them were just that good of a fit.

 

Check out Odell Beckham Jr.  He looks washed in Cleveland, ACL tear too.  But then he suddenly looks pretty good again once he goes to a team with a QB and a scheme that can utilize his talents.  Rookie contract Odell would have not done much with Baker Mayfield and Cleveland's offense either.  Odell thrives on choice routes, but Baker can't read those well and Cleveland's scheme offers little opportunities for them.

 

In a vacuum, Olave isn't a WR1.  But I think he could produce like one with the talent we have on offense and hopefully a scheme that can use it.

 

It would be a ridiculous trio of WR's running in the 4.3's we would have.  While short stuff isn't Olaves strong suit.  That is Curtis Samuels strong suit, and Terry can handle that well too.  Olave (and Jameson Williams) do offer the intermediate/deep areas of the field value that Wentz prefers to target.

 

He fits Wentz well.  And his weakness is covered up with other talent on the team being good there.  Honestly, does it matter if he's not a good shallow crosser or screen guy if we have McKissic, Gibson, Samuel, and Terry who can all do that well?  What extra value do we get from having a 5th target who can do damage near the LoS?  4 is more than enough to keep defenses focused on it.

 

I've got Olave > Wilson as I think he fits the other players, QB, and scheme better.  I do think London is a better overall talent to where he's my #1 in this draft.  But Olave can do damage with this team.  The offense is going to hum with his skillset.

 

Wilson has talent.  He's got better hard plant and burst at a hard angle.  But Olave can keep speed better through cuts on less hard angles.  He can ramp back up to max on those faster than most can.  That smooth speed would like nice with how Wentz operates.

 

Since you broke this down well and quoted a post that includes Dyami, how do you see Brown's skill set fitting within this group compared to what Olave brings factoring in wentz at qb.  

[Warhead36]

8 hours ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Why do you feel like you need a "big threat" when you have great route runners getting wide open? 

Yeah thats my take too. We obsess over size. Get me a guy who gets open. Speed is the name of the game.

7 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I don't think, in a vacuum, Olave can be a legit WR1 for a team. But personnel fit and scheme fit can elevate someone's talent to where they produce more than they would normally. Lots of examples of HoF players or guys on the cusp who were only that productive because the scheme and the talent around them were just that good of a fit.

 

Check out Odell Beckham Jr.  He looks washed in Cleveland, ACL tear too.  But then he suddenly looks pretty good again once he goes to a team with a QB and a scheme that can utilize his talents.  Rookie contract Odell would have not done much with Baker Mayfield and Cleveland's offense either.  Odell thrives on choice routes, but Baker can't read those well and Cleveland's scheme offers little opportunities for them.

 

In a vacuum, Olave isn't a WR1.  But I think he could produce like one with the talent we have on offense and hopefully a scheme that can use it.

 

It would be a ridiculous trio of WR's running in the 4.3's we would have.  While short stuff isn't Olaves strong suit.  That is Curtis Samuels strong suit, and Terry can handle that well too.  Olave (and Jameson Williams) do offer the intermediate/deep areas of the field value that Wentz prefers to target.

 

He fits Wentz well.  And his weakness is covered up with other talent on the team being good there.  Honestly, does it matter if he's not a good shallow crosser or screen guy if we have McKissic, Gibson, Samuel, and Terry who can all do that well?  What extra value do we get from having a 5th target who can do damage near the LoS?  4 is more than enough to keep defenses focused on it.

 

I've got Olave > Wilson as I think he fits the other players, QB, and scheme better.  I do think London is a better overall talent to where he's my #1 in this draft.  But Olave can do damage with this team.  The offense is going to hum with his skillset.

 

Wilson has talent.  He's got better hard plant and burst at a hard angle.  But Olave can keep speed better through cuts on less hard angles.  He can ramp back up to max on those faster than most can.  That smooth speed would like nice with how Wentz operates.

Basically agree 100% with this

[Forever A Redskin]

9 hours ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Why do you feel like you need a "big threat" when you have great route runners getting wide open? 

 

A big WR gives us a dynamic in the end zone that none of our current receivers can provide, in addition to Wentz liking to throw up 50/50 balls....need a big body that can box out and high point above the defender.

 

It's moreso about him not having WR1 potential. As another poster said, we would regret taking Olave a year from now if we see who we passed on to take him that turns out to be a pro-bowler. 

 

I'm fine with Olave in the 20 range but still wouldn't be that happy. Just my opinion. People are just gun-shy after the Jamin Davis pick I think...they want the highest floor prospect.

 

Really hope the Lions offer us 32 and 34 and a 3rd for 11 overall and we can really stack our team with players.

 

Kenneth Walker/Hall at RB | Pickens/Watson/Pierce - WR | Muma/Andersen/Chenal - LB | Pitre/Brisker - Buffalo

 

We could just sit back and let the BPA at position of need that falls and address our many problems on this team as opposed to only one with Olave. I've never seen a draft more perfect for a trade down. Usually the drop off is extremely steep, but not this year. And the strength of this draft aligns with our needs. 

 

Calling it now. We will regret it staying at 11 after we see the amount of starters and pro bowlers that come out of the 2nd/3rd round this year. 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Forever A Redskin

[Voice_of_Reason]

So I’m. It really a draft guy or a college football guy.  Just don’t have the time.  
 

However I’ve been listening to all the draft prognosticators on all the podcasts and radio shows.

 

I have come up with a very generic opinion of what we should do at 11: draft an offensive guy.  The best offensive guy on the board. We have drafted a defensive guy in the first round since we drafted Scherff.  That’s just a lot of resources poured into one side of the ball.  I get they need a safety, MLB.  But this is now an offensive league and they need to get more offensive firepower. 
 

And I really don’t care about value or quantity.  Get the best guy you get.  2 good guys is not as good as 1 great guy.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I hyped up Kenneth Walker during the college season here among others, but I haven't rewatched him until now.  I started to dive into Breece Hall too but at least for game one, Hall didn't move the needle for me the way Walker does but I'd love to have him, too.   I did like a lot what I saw with Hall but wasn't wowed to the same extent like I was with Walker.

 

I get some say the advantage with Hall is his pass catching ability and Walker brings nothing to the pass game.  As I mentioned a few days ago, I heard in a podcast Michigan State coaches talk up that Walker catches the ball well in practice but they simply don't throw the ball to the backs much in games.

 

For those concerned about Walker on that front, rewatch the game against Michigan.  He caught a bunch of balls, I don't recall a miss.  They lined him up outside on some plays.  Wildcat on one play.  Only concern I got about him in the passing game is his pass blocking is "meh".  A willing blocker but he comes off like he doesn't always love contact on that front.  But I think he's passable enough on that front, that its OK.

 

And for the critics who say is Walker really a "today" RB because he doesn't have the pass catching stats.  To me, today's NFL is mainly about making big plays.  Chunk plays.  And Kenneth Walker is a big time home run hitter.  30 -- 15 yard plus runs.  I thought the run blocking he good was fine but nothing special, he wasn't running behind big time O lines tradtionally like Iowa or Wisconsin.  He can create without having monster holes to lead the way.

 

What I love about him is how eclectic he is as a runner.  He's IMO both good at power and zone. Inside or outside.  Fast and elusive.  Strong and violent too.   He can do it all.  His vision looks sick.  He sees cut back lanes -- a play could look dead but he makes something out of it.  If he finds a crease, he's gone.  If he needs to Peyton Barber grind a yard or two when there is nothing there, he can do that too.   Nice spin move.  Great contact balance.

 

I wish he was an inch taller, was a better pass blocker but outside of that IMO he's a RB built in a lab.  Too bad we swaped those 2nd rounders with Indy.  It could come back and be a sneaky problem in the draft.  It reminds me of the year I loved Dalvin Cook (and found out later that the team loved him too) but he went before our pick and we ended up with Ryan Anderson in the 2nd.  Hopefully a similar fate doesn't happen this time.  Not that I am married to Walker but I'd take him in a flash if he fell to 47.  Heck I'd take him if we were picking 33. 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So I’m. It really a draft guy or a college football guy.  Just don’t have the time.  
 

However I’ve been listening to all the draft prognosticators on all the podcasts and radio shows.

 

I have come up with a very generic opinion of what we should do at 11: draft an offensive guy.  The best offensive guy on the board. We have drafted a defensive guy in the first round since we drafted Scherff.  That’s just a lot of resources poured into one side of the ball.  I get they need a safety, MLB.  But this is now an offensive league and they need to get more offensive firepower. 
 

And I really don’t care about value or quantity.  Get the best guy you get.  2 good guys is not as good as 1 great guy.  

This is my sentiments as well. Our offense currently only has one player that was a 1st round pick and that's Wentz. Our only decently sized investments on that side in the Rivera era were Fitzpatrick(bust) and Samuel(injured, could be a bust). 

 

We need weapons and a lot more of it. People keep bringing up the likes of Cam Simms and Dyami Brown. Relative to the league, they're just guys. Every team has someone like that buried on their depth chart or practice squad and we're banking on them being contributors.

 

Look around the league and the best teams have lots of weapons. The Bengals had three ace receivers, a stud RB, and a real good TE. Same with the Cowboys. Rams were loaded too before injuries to Woods and their RB. Ditto Chiefs and Packers(less so now because of having to trade their star WRs). 

 

We're bringing knives and trying to win against artillery fire.

[Forever A Redskin]

I'd Kill to fleece a team like the Eagles did, but instead of 2023 picks, get them all in this year's draft. Getting multiple 2s and 3s this year could be franchise altering.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Forever A Redskin said:

I'd Kill to fleece a team like the Eagles did, but instead of 2023 picks, get them all in this year's draft. Getting multiple 2s and 3s this year could be franchise altering.

I feel like that gets said every year and every year like 90% of guys taken in those rounds are JAGs. 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I feel like that gets said every year and every year like 90% of guys taken in those rounds are JAGs. 

2nd round is where the WRs, LBers, Safeties and RBs all come from.