2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

Getting a first for Payne would be a real coup. It's not likely to happen. 2nd/3rd is his value I would think. 

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Getting a first for Payne would be a real coup. It's not likely to happen. 2nd/3rd is his value I would think. 

 

Or we'll just let him play out this year and get our end-of-the-3rd round comp pick for him as has been the M.O. for nearly a decade... smh

[KDawg]

Just now, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

Or we'll just let him play out this year and get our end-of-the-3rd round comp pick for him as has been the M.O. for nearly a decade... smh

 

Entirely possible. And to be honest I'd rather do that and get ammo for next year's draft with a potential comp pick than to trade him for a third or under.

 

This is so disgustingly mismanaged.

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Entirely possible. And to be honest I'd rather do that and get ammo for next year's draft with a potential comp pick than to trade him for a third or under.

 

This is so disgustingly mismanaged.

 

Agreed.  But the comp pick wouldn't come until the 2024 draft, would it?   (Assuming he plays 2022-23 for us, then signs FA in spring 2023, that comp pick doesn't hit until the 2024 draft.  The incompetence with this one is truly staggering.... and for this franchise that is saying a helluva lot.

[Ball Security]

I felt like something was up when the team tweeted out a picture of Allen, Young, and Sweat with no Payne.  
 

Davis’ weight is such a concern.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

Agreed.  But the comp pick wouldn't come until the 2024 draft, would it?   (Assuming he plays 2022-23 for us, then signs FA in spring 2023, that comp pick doesn't hit until the 2024 draft.  The incompetence with this one is truly staggering.... and for this franchise that is saying a helluva lot.

Good point. That makes the whole thing worse

[Panninho]

I can absolutely understand not paying Payne after paying Allen. I can absolutely understand choosing Allen over Payne. However, it is almost malpractice to know you are not keeping Payne and then not keeping your cheap options in Settle and Ioannidis. You are opening a gigantic hole on a position without any reason.

You have to trade Payne if you are not extending him. But then you also have to keep at least one out of Settle/Ioannidis. Instead we trade assets away for Carson Wentz and then have to get rid of our backups for cap reasons, only to then also not extend our starter.

 

How incompetent can you handle a situation like this?

 

Payne, Scherff, Trent, Kirk...in the end, they will have netted us a couple of 3rd round picks. Stuff like this is the main reason why we can't have nice things. This is not how a professional team operates. This is what it looks like if you don't have a strategy. This sucks so much.

[Zim489]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Love Cine.  Love Hamilton more.  But I'd still rather have a WR at 11 -- London, Wilson or Williams -- if his health checks out. 

Yeah im not advocating for Cine at 11. Give me a WR at 11 > Trade down and take Cine > Hamilton.

[seantaylor=god]

I would have no problem with this if we resigned Settle. But we just lost all of our DT depth. Time for our “genius” D line coach to show how great he is with UDFA!

[Zim489]

Just now, Panninho said:

I can absolutely understand not paying Payne after paying Allen. I can absolutely understand choosing Allen over Payne. However, it is almost malpractice to know you are not keeping Payne and then not keeping your cheap options in Settle and Ioannidis. You are opening a gigantic hole on a position without any reason.

You have to trade Payne if you are not extending him. But then you also have to keep at least one out of Settle/Ioannidis. Instead we trade assets away for Carson Wentz and then have to get rid of our backups for cap reasons, only to then also not extend our starter.

 

How incompetent can you handle a situation like this?

 

Payne, Scherff, Trent, Kirk...in the end, they will have netted us a couple of 3rd round picks. Stuff like this is the main reason why we can't have nice things. This is not how a professional team operates. This is what it looks like if you don't have a strategy. This sucks so much.

Roster management continues to be woeful. It was awful under Bruce. It continues to be awful under Ron. It makes absolutely no sense in the way they have handled things. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Panninho said:

I can absolutely understand not paying Payne after paying Allen. I can absolutely understand choosing Allen over Payne. However, it is almost malpractice to know you are not keeping Payne and then not keeping your cheap options in Settle and Ioannidis. You are opening a gigantic hole on a position without any reason.

You have to trade Payne if you are not extending him. But then you also have to keep at least one out of Settle/Ioannidis. Instead we trade assets away for Carson Wentz and then have to get rid of our backups for cap reasons, only to then also not extend our starter.

 

How incompetent can you handle a situation like this?

 

Payne, Scherff, Trent, Kirk...in the end, they will have netted us a couple of 3rd round picks. Stuff like this is the main reason why we can't have nice things. This is not how a professional team operates. This is what it looks like if you don't have a strategy. This sucks so much.

 

I don't include Wentz here, to be honest.

 

We needed a QB. Wentz would be the best in the class (insert my obligatory "except Howell" here). I'm not sure they would have traded him for less than they did and if he hit FA we may not have got him.

 

Granted, if we waited longer we may have been able to get Mayfield. But who knows.

 

But we had to do something for a QB. Losing a 3rd rounder this year is hardly crippling.

 

You want to talk about the more egregious loss of a draft choice this year? Cheeseman.

[Chump Bailey]

I thought letting Settle walk was a mistake from jump. He's a good player at a position that's not easy to fill.

[757SeanTaylor21]

We will just franchise Payne 2x before letting him walk for the 3rd round comp pick lol

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

I thought letting Settle walk was a mistake from jump. He's a good player at a position that's not easy to fill.

 

Maybe we can trade Buffalo Payne for Settle and a 3rd lol

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

We will just franchise Payne 2x before letting him walk for the 3rd round comp pick lol

Gonna be hard to franchise Daron, Sweat and Terry all at the same time.

[Panninho]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't include Wentz here, to be honest.

 

We needed a QB. Wentz would be the best in the class (insert my obligatory "except Howell" here). I'm not sure they would have traded him for less than they did and if he hit FA we may not have got him.

 

Granted, if we waited longer we may have been able to get Mayfield. But who knows.

 

But we had to do something for a QB. Losing a 3rd rounder this year is hardly crippling.

 

You want to talk about the more egregious loss of a draft choice this year? Cheeseman.

Wentz is a desperation move that will get us nowhere and ultimately cost us a boatload of money, a 3rd this year and a 2nd next year. So it will have ramifications even if we move on after this or next season, because the opportunity cost is high.

 

That is of course my opinion. But I don't see any reason to assume that Wentz is going to do wonders here after two teams decided to move on from him in the span of two years. He is what he is and that is better than what we have/had but it's also not nearly good enough.

[skinny21]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Entirely possible. And to be honest I'd rather do that and get ammo for next year's draft with a potential comp pick than to trade him for a third or under.

 

This is so disgustingly mismanaged.

It would be a 2024 3rd though, right?  Edit: just saw this was already mentioned

 

I wouldn’t mind trading Payne, taking Davis at 11, and picking up a picking up a pick or 2.  A late 1st would give us some interesting options (Dotson/Moore, Walker/Hall, or a safety/corner).  

A 2nd and 5th or 3rd and 4th could give us ammo to move up from 47 (as well as an additional early pick).  

Or maybe a mid round pick this year and another next year (recoup our 2nd we’ll be shipping to Indy for example)?  In this latter scenario, it’s basically trading Payne for Wentz (well, plus his contract)… not too bad a deal in that context.

 

With that said, 1) I worry the compensation wouldn’t be worth the trouble (ie the value will be more like a 3rd), and 2) if we did that and Baltimore or Houston traded up with the Jets at #10 to get Davis… we’re suddenly in a really bad spot on the dline.

 

Cutting Io, letting Settle walk, and not extending Payne… does this mean the team is really high on Wise?  I’d like to think it means they have a plan in place, but I worry it points to the opposite of that.

Edited April 26, 2022 by skinny21

[veteranskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Roster management continues to be woeful. It was awful under Bruce. It continues to be awful under Ron. It makes absolutely no sense in the way they have handled things. 

This is why the coach centric model doesn't work unless your name is Bill Belichick.  Ron the GM is turning out to be a disaster and the clowns he hired are a joke.  We should have kept Kyle Smith.  Ron should stick to coaching.  This group will be gone after this year or after next year.  Their time is running out.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Gonna be hard to franchise Daron, Sweat and Terry all at the same time.

 

Terry and Payne for sure. Sweat will be on a 5th year in 2023 and won't be tag-eligible until 2024, fortunately. 

 

But no chance we franchise Payne unless we can get a deal with Terry done.

 

I think you were being tongue in cheek though lol

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Panninho said:

Wentz is a desperation move that will get us nowhere and ultimately cost us a boatload of money, a 3rd this year and a 2nd next year. So it will have ramifications even if we move on after this or next season, because the opportunity cost is high.

 

That is of course my opinion. But I don't see any reason to assume that Wentz is going to do wonders here after two teams decided to move on from him in the span of two years. He is what he is and that is better than what we have/had but it's also not nearly good enough.

I don't disagree with any of this.

 

But Wentz > Heinicke

 

And we weren't getting anyone better.

 

The ONLY thing that will give me buyer's remorse, personally, is if Sam Howell is available at 47. Could have gotten him + kept our third... then I'd be a bit more meh on it.

 

But you have to pull the trigger in a window and they did.

 

I'd rather give up what we did for Wentz than be Seattle, Carolina or Pittsburgh right now. 

3 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

It would be a 2024 3rd though, right?

 

I wouldn’t mind trading Payne, taking Davis at 11, and picking up a picking up a pick or 2.  A late 1st would give us some interesting options (Dotson/Moore, Walker/Hall, or a safety/corner).  

A 2nd and 5th or 3rd and 4th could give us ammo to move up from 47 (as well as an additional early pick).  

Or maybe a mid round pick this year and another next year (recoup our 2nd we’ll be shipping to Indy for example)?  In this latter scenario, it’s basically trading Payne for Wentz (well, plus his contract)… not too bad a deal in that context.

 

With that said, 1) I worry the compensation wouldn’t be worth the trouble (ie the value will be more like a 3rd), and 2) if we did that and Baltimore or Houston traded up with the Jets at #10 to get Davis… we’re suddenly in a really bad spot on the dline.

 

Cutting Io, letting Settle walk, and not extending Payne… does this mean the team is really high on Wise?  I’d like to think it means they have a plan in place, but I worry it points to the opposite of that.

I reiterate:

 

If we draft a 5th defensive linemen in 6 drafts with our first rounder... Who the **** does that?

 

You CANNOT try to fix awful roster building with panic drafting. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

What Payne worth for draft picks? 

 

Who would replace him with?

 

I know we have an Fa offer out to the dt on buffalo. I guess the uconn dt fits for us. I don't know if the Oklahoma Dt does. I

I hope management knows something we don't. 

 

I''d guess 3rd tops, probably a 4th.  His contract is coming up so he won't be cheap anymore for an aaquiring team, he's been a good player but he's not been a big production guy or ballyhooed player around the league where I can see teams pounding the table for him.  He's a good player, underrated, but DTs typically aren't as in demand as edge, especially DT's who don't have big sack production like him. 

 

I know some of our fans typically think we will get the moon back in trades.  But the thing is football isn't baseball.  In football outside of the QB spot, or for rock star type players, guys usually go relatively cheap in trades.   I recall years ago when Kerrigan was still a good player but tailing off some.  Some on the board thought we could get a first rounder for him -- i recall one of the beat guys forgetting whom (probably Keim) said asking around the word if he'd fetch a 5th rounder give or take.

 

Heck lets take Calais Campbell, beast of a player, and he's more of an end which typically has more value than a DT -- he went for a 5th round pick, granted he's closer to the end of his career.   BJ Hill who IMO isn't as good as Payne but was decent and is young went for a conditional 7th,

 

The idea that Payne wouldn't be resigned isn't a novel out of the blue take.  Local media talked about it before.  National media has talked about it.  Some national cap guys have talked about it saying they wouldn't pay 4 guys top money on the D line and its a bad useage of resources.  I've posted that stuff and got some serious pushback from some on the idea. 

 

But at a minimum not having 4 guys at the same position at 18-30 million isn't some crazy outlier position.   Ultimately Young and Sweat are getting paid big assuming they stay.  But there has been a running narrative by some smart cap people that some here have rejected that they ultimately are going to have to chose 3 of these 4 players. 

 

So Payne playing out his contract doesn't bug me, I get it.  Ditto not trading him because I am convinced they've tried or at a minimum are about to.  If they end up getting a 3rd rounder back, that's as good IMO as I'd guess they could get on the market. The other thing I'd add is I bet they indeed tried already.  Keim talked about them wanting to move a player in a trade, heck even Rivera talked about it.   

 

So I doubt its a novel idea of hey maybe we should try to trade him.  And I'd put money that the Colts turned down having Payne as part of the package for Wentz or they did try to trade Payne outright but weren't offered anythng better than the 3rd round comp or if not they are about to try.   All indications are they's try to move him.  Keim talked about this thought in the previous off season citing what SF did and this team noticed that.  

 

So the Payne stuff doesn't bother me at all.  What bothers me is Settle. According to some reporters this FO sort of botched Settle with their "patient" approach of go get wooed by another team, we won't offer you anything, but then we will counter that offer.  According to some reports they got caught flat footed with that approach.

 

They almost lost McKissic with that same approach.  And IMO them having this chill we will deal with Terry's contract later approach, cost them a chunk of money.

 

So as I've said I like Rivera but he's the classic case of a strength can also be a weakness.  His calm demeanor, patience, optimisim, class, creature of habits = stability.  But it can also burn them at times. 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Ball Security]

8 minutes ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

We will just franchise Payne 2x before letting him walk for the 3rd round comp pick lol

Can’t franchise Payne and McLaurin at the same time.  Lol.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I''d guess 3rd tops, probably a 4th.  His contract is coming up so he won't be cheap anymore for an aaquiring team, he's been a good player but he's not been a big production guy or ballyhooed player around the league where I can see teams pounding the table for him.  He's a good player, underrated, but DTs typically aren't as in demand as edge, especially DT's who don't have big sack production like him. 

 

I know some of our fans typically think we will get the moon back in trades.  But the thing is football isn't baseball.  In football outside of the QB spot, or for rock star type players, guys usually go relatively cheap in trades.   I recall years ago when Kerrigan was still a good player but tailing off some.  Some on the board thought we could get a first rounder for him -- i recall one of the beat guys forgetting whom (probably Keim) said asking around the word if he'd fetch a 5th rounder give or take.

 

Heck lets take Calais Campbell, beast of a player, and he's more of an end and typically as more value than a DT went for a 5th round pick, granted he's closer to the end of his career.   BJ Hill who IMO isn't as good as Payne but was decent and is young went for a conditional 7th,

 

The idea that Payne wouldn't be resigned isn't a novel out of the blue take.  Local media talked about it before.  National media has talked about it.  Some national cap guys have talked about it saying they wouldn't pay 4 guys top money on the D line and its a bad useage of resources.  I've posted that stuff and got some serious pushback from some on the idea.  But at a minimum not having 4 guys at the same position at 18-30 million isn't some crazy outlier position.   Ultimately Young and Sweat are getting paid big assuming they stay.  But there has been a running narrative by some smart cap people that some here have rejected that they ultimately are going to have to chose 3 of these 4 players. 

 

So Payne playing out his contract doesn't bug me, I get it.  Ditto not trading him.  If they end up getting a 3rd rounder back, that's as good IMO as I'd guess they could get on the market. The other thing I'd add is I bet they indeed tried already.  Keim talked about them wanting to move a player in a trade, heck even Rivera talked about it.    So I doubt its a novel idea of hey maybe we should try to trade him.  And I'd put money that the Colts turned having Payne as part of the package for Wentz or they did try to trade Payne outright but weren't offered anythng better than the 3rd round comp. 

 

So the Payne stuff doesn't bother me at all.  What bothers me is Settle. According to some reporters this FO sort of botched Settle with their "patient" approach of go get wooed by another team, we won't offer you anything, but then we will counter that offer.  According to some reports they got caught flat footed with that approach.

 

They almost lost McKissic with that same approach.  And IMO them having this chill we will deal with Terry's contract later approach, cost them a chunck of money.

 

So as I've said I like Rivera but he's the classic case of a strength can also be a weakness.  His calm demeanor, patience, optimisim, class, creature of habits = stability.  But it can also burn them at times. 

 

 

Agree here.

 

Gross mismanagement of the roster. This is a major pox mark against this group.

 

Only way I change my mind is if they get a 1 for Payne. And guess what? That isn't happening. 

[UK Skins]

This is truly sickening news. The article reads like they have known this for some time too, which makes it even more mind-boggling. If we really do sit this out for a 3rd round comp pick and not spend any money in free agency again in order to keep it I will truly lose it.

 

I'm not going back pages to check but we had Davis in for a visit didn't we? I'm sure we discussed how odd it was at the time. I guess now we know.

[Zim489]

4 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

This is why the coach centric model doesn't work unless your name is Bill Belichick.  Ron the GM is turning out to be a disaster and the clowns he hired are a joke.  We should have kept Kyle Smith.  Ron should stick to coaching.  This group will be gone after this year or after next year.  Their time is running out.

It won’t be this after this year and that’s the scary part. You go into the 2023 offseason and he’s desperate. He gives away the farm for the farm he won’t be a part of and he sinks the next group before they are even here. It’s 2027 before we’re on the right track