2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@Skinsinparadise There's also the fact that trading him would free up $10 million in cap space which, in theory, could open up a range of options in post-draft free agency.

 

Say we get a 3rd for Payne and then go get Lutaleili to be a body or 3rd DT. We have to use a pick on a young DT. But those two combined wouldn't command half the salary of Payne's. So then maybe we use our extra $$ to get Mathieu, or bring back Landon Collins ... which would make Safety less of a need. So instead of using a pick on Safety, maybe they have a deal lined up post Payne-trade to get a DT body and starting FS in-house, which then opens things up in the draft a bit more. You need to add a DT with a pick in the 1st or 2nd, but then Safety is theoretically off the board.

 

Not sure what LBs are available out there at this point, but the same could go for MLB. 

 

It COULD be good roster management if you divest $$ in the DL in the next 2-3 years. It would allow them to extend Sweat and Young along with Allen, with a 4th starter on a rookie deal for 4+ years. 

 

Anyway, it'll be intersting to see how it plays out either way. I would imagine they have some funds allocated for a post-draft splash signing. 

[Redskins 2021]

I know we had some interest in Star Lotulelei as Fa. I hope we sign him as a replacement for starters.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Panninho]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don't disagree with any of this.

 

But Wentz > Heinicke

 

And we weren't getting anyone better.

 

The ONLY thing that will give me buyer's remorse, personally, is if Sam Howell is available at 47. Could have gotten him + kept our third... then I'd be a bit more meh on it.

 

But you have to pull the trigger in a window and they did.

 

I'd rather give up what we did for Wentz than be Seattle, Carolina or Pittsburgh right now. 

 

I think the comparison should be the Eagles. They drafted a rookie in the 2nd, moved on from Wentz but still are in a position where they have enough draft capital to make a move if necessary. Even this year they managed to pull-off a trade that might once again put them in a great position next year.

 

We, on the contrary, try to fix the most important position in football with an expensive patchwork approach that won't work. And with that approach we make sure we aren't getting out of that hell anytime soon. I don't think it's good enough to be better than last year. I think we have an extreme agency problem here. Ron is making moves for his future and not for the franchise's future.

[Zim489]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Agree here.

 

Gross mismanagement of the roster. This is a major pox mark against this group.

 

Only way I change my mind is if they get a 1 for Payne. And guess what? That isn't happening. 

I’ve been harping on this. This is just another feather in the cap 

[Redskins 2021]

 I doubt we take Davis. I think the Buffalo guy is the replacement plus draft pick we get for him.  What I don't get is why let Settles and Matt I walk if we are replacing Payne.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

If we traded Payne it would free-up $8.5m in cap space. Add-in the eventual $12m we'd get from Collins post-June 1st and we'd have $32m in cap space. That's a LOT of cap space to have sitting around to not spend. Even if you want to roll some into 2023 to help take on some of McLaurin's extension ... we'd have the most cap space at that point in the league ahead of Carolina.

 

Trading Payne screams to me a post-draft free agent signing. Going to go comb through the available players at positions of need. But I would become a fan of the trade if I knew we'd get a 2nd or a 3rd ... we'd use that pick on a DT ... and we'd be brning in Star on the cheap. Good teams get maximum value out of veteran FAs and Star could be just that for the short-term. I know he's tailed off recently, but if he's a rotational 3rd DT behind Allen and a Rookie, it's not a terrible situation to be in.

[Panninho]

4 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I know we had some interest in Star Lotulelei as Fa. I hope we sign him as a replacement for starters.

If we bring in another washed up ex-Panther who has played mediocre at best for the same price (or even more) than a Settle or Ioannidis I am going to lose it.

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, Panninho said:

I don't think it's good enough to be better than last year. I think we have an extreme agency problem here. Ron is making moves for his future and not for the franchise's future.

I agree with all of this. The approach now feels like we’re starting to get into ass saving mode. Whwre we’re making the same moves Rons predecessors have made. Moves that are decent this year to keep you from being terrible but sets you back some what in the future but doesn’t cut your legs out from under you. Just so you can do the same things the following year. It’s always about doing as best as they can this year. It’s what has kept us in the mediocrity for decades

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Panninho said:

 

I think the comparison should be the Eagles. They drafted a rookie in the 2nd, moved on from Wentz but still are in a position where they have enough draft capital to make a move if necessary. Even this year they managed to pull-off a trade that might once again put them in a great position next year.

 

We, on the contrary, try to fix the most important position in football with an expensive patchwork approach that won't work. And with that approach we make sure we aren't getting out of that hell anytime soon. I don't think it's good enough to be better than last year. I think we have an extreme agency problem here. Ron is making moves for his future and not for the franchise's future.

 

Yeah we're in total disagreement here.

 

Wentz is far better than Heinicke and its not even close. But if he gets hurt or is a personality issue that's different.

 

Quarterback wise Wentz isn't all that expensive and, if we stink, we can still add one of 2023's high end QB prospects. He doesn't stop us from doing that.

 

I'm not on the Wentz is a savior train... but I think he allows us to be competitive. And this team has to be competitive this year.

 

But the roster as a whole has been mismanaged. Negotiations wait too long. We let guys walk in positions where we aren't going to be keeping starters. We rely on injury prone players to improve our team. 

 

But again, Cheeseman. Why the hell did we trade up for him?

[Ball Security]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I''d guess 3rd tops, probably a 4th.  His contract is coming up so he won't be cheap anymore for an aaquiring team, he's been a good player but he's not been a big production guy or ballyhooed player around the league where I can see teams pounding the table for him.  He's a good player, underrated, but DTs typically aren't as in demand as edge, especially DT's who don't have big sack production like him. 

 

I know some of our fans typically think we will get the moon back in trades.  But the thing is football isn't baseball.  In football outside of the QB spot, or for rock star type players, guys usually go relatively cheap in trades.   I recall years ago when Kerrigan was still a good player but tailing off some.  Some on the board thought we could get a first rounder for him -- i recall one of the beat guys forgetting whom (probably Keim) said asking around the word if he'd fetch a 5th rounder give or take.

 

Heck lets take Calais Campbell, beast of a player, and he's more of an end which typically has more value than a DT -- he went for a 5th round pick, granted he's closer to the end of his career.   BJ Hill who IMO isn't as good as Payne but was decent and is young went for a conditional 7th,

 

The idea that Payne wouldn't be resigned isn't a novel out of the blue take.  Local media talked about it before.  National media has talked about it.  Some national cap guys have talked about it saying they wouldn't pay 4 guys top money on the D line and its a bad useage of resources.  I've posted that stuff and got some serious pushback from some on the idea. 

 

But at a minimum not having 4 guys at the same position at 18-30 million isn't some crazy outlier position.   Ultimately Young and Sweat are getting paid big assuming they stay.  But there has been a running narrative by some smart cap people that some here have rejected that they ultimately are going to have to chose 3 of these 4 players. 

 

So Payne playing out his contract doesn't bug me, I get it.  Ditto not trading him because I am convinced they've tried or at a minimum are about to.  If they end up getting a 3rd rounder back, that's as good IMO as I'd guess they could get on the market. The other thing I'd add is I bet they indeed tried already.  Keim talked about them wanting to move a player in a trade, heck even Rivera talked about it.   

 

So I doubt its a novel idea of hey maybe we should try to trade him.  And I'd put money that the Colts turned down having Payne as part of the package for Wentz or they did try to trade Payne outright but weren't offered anythng better than the 3rd round comp or if not they are about to try.   All indications are they's try to move him.  Keim talked about this thought in the previous off season citing what SF did and this team noticed that.  

 

So the Payne stuff doesn't bother me at all.  What bothers me is Settle. According to some reporters this FO sort of botched Settle with their "patient" approach of go get wooed by another team, we won't offer you anything, but then we will counter that offer.  According to some reports they got caught flat footed with that approach.

 

They almost lost McKissic with that same approach.  And IMO them having this chill we will deal with Terry's contract later approach, cost them a chunk of money.

 

So as I've said I like Rivera but he's the classic case of a strength can also be a weakness.  His calm demeanor, patience, optimisim, class, creature of habits = stability.  But it can also burn them at times. 

 

DeForest Buckner netted a first rounder entering his fifth year.  So I’m holding out hope.  If the Packers are interested, I’d be ecstatic if we got #28.  But if we were to get their 2nd 2, a 4, and a 5, I’d be relieved.  GB has 11 picks.

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

and, if we stink, we can still add one of 2023's high end QB prospects

I don’t expect us to be anywhere close to the top ones next year 

[Redskins 2021]

 What team would want Payne? Any rumors on teams interested or teams interested in the past.

[KDawg]

Just now, Zim489 said:

I don’t expect us to be anywhere close to the top ones next year 

There are quite a few. And moving assets to get up in the draft for a franchise QB isn't unwise.

 

Having said that, doing it if Rivera becomes a lame duck IS an issue.

 

Our issues are all converging now. Rivera needs a playoff run real bad. And one where we win a round and look good in elimination. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Just now, Ball Security said:

DeForest Buckner netted a first rounder entering his fifth year.  So I’m holding out hope.  If the Packers are interested, I’d be ecstatic if we got #28.  But if we were to get their 2nd 2, a 4, and a 5, I’d be relieved.  GB has 11 picks.

 

59 and 140 would be appealing. And if we lose Payne, as I stated above, I think we'd be in the market for a veteran FA other than Loutoleilei ... even if it's "just" bringing back Landon Collins or signing Anthony Hitchens. We'd have $32m in cap space post Payne trade (and Collins' $12m relief on June 1st).

 

Depending on who the FO has lined up to come in post-draft, it could impact the outcome of the picks. If they are confident they'll bring in Tyrann Mathieu for example, Safety is of the board. If they think they can bring in Joe Schobert or Anthony Hitchens, then maybe LB is off the board early. And maybe they bring in Kyle Fuller to play along Kendall for a year or two, giving us needed depth at CB that allows us to wait on CB until late.

 

We'll see how it plays out. I'd love to get 59 and 140 from Green Bay and then trade back from #11 and just do a full-on re-tooling of the roster with the draft capital. It would be really helpul to balance out some of the soon-to-hit megadeals we'll have to be signing (Sweat, Curl, Young, Terry) that'll eat up loads of cap going out beyond 2023. 

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

I don’t expect us to be anywhere close to the top ones next year 

 We will not stink next year. Our schudule is to easy we should win ten games. Wentz was an over pay but they trade was not as bad as everyone thinks. 

 No Qb that we really wanted would have signed here. Wentz probably would not have come here as an Fa. We probably would have traded for him last year but the eagles would not have traded him on division.

[Panninho]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Yeah we're in total disagreement here.

 

Wentz is far better than Heinicke and its not even close. But if he gets hurt or is a personality issue that's different.

 

Quarterback wise Wentz isn't all that expensive and, if we stink, we can still add one of 2023's high end QB prospects. He doesn't stop us from doing that.

 

I'm not on the Wentz is a savior train... but I think he allows us to be competitive. And this team has to be competitive this year.

 

But the roster as a whole has been mismanaged. Negotiations wait too long. We let guys walk in positions where we aren't going to be keeping starters. We rely on injury prone players to improve our team. 

 

But again, Cheeseman. Why the hell did we trade up for him?

Never said he wasn't better than Heinicke. But the question isn't Heinicke or Wentz. The question is Heinicke plus a 3rd and a 2nd and almost 30m or Wentz. And the upside/downside of Heinicke is a disastrous season that puts you in a position to draft a great QB prospect next year.

If Wentz stays healthy we win maybe 10-11 games, barely miss the playoffs or likely exit in the first round. We then pick in the late teens once again, have no additional draft capital (actually the contrary) to move up and have to make a decision whether to pay him going forward or not and once again start with no QB and no draft capital.

 

But yeah, everyone can have a different opinion on that.

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Having said that, doing it if Rivera becomes a lame duck IS an issue.

Thats the terrifying part. You cant let him ruin the future with desperation

 

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Our issues are all converging now. Rivera needs a playoff run real bad. And one where we win a round and look good in elimination. 

A Real playoff run. Not sneaking in as the 7th seed at 9-8 to lose 34-16 to the WC round is utterly meaningless to me. 

[Going Commando]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Heck lets take Calais Campbell, beast of a player, and he's more of an end which typically has more value than a DT -- he went for a 5th round pick, granted he's closer to the end of his career.   BJ Hill who IMO isn't as good as Payne but was decent and is young went for a conditional 7th,

 

Calais Campbell was 34 years old when traded.  Grady Jarrett is 29 and the Falcons are shopping him and they're going to get at least a third round pick from him, hoping for a second.  If we trade Payne, it we need to get a second back or multiple thirds or else we're getting screwed.  He's got 29 career AV headed into his age 25 season.  That is way better than anyone still left on the team and Chase is the only one on track to match that pace of production.

 

Payne has more career AV than Vita Vea and he's two years younger.  What do you think the Bucs could get in return for trading Vea this offseason?

 

Payne is underrated but he is, without question, one of the best and most valuable players on our roster.  It would be an awful mistake to either sell him low or worse, let him walk for nothing.

 

Stuff like this is why I question whether Ron has made the roster worse since he took over.  We didn't have many good players before he took over, but the few we did have all seem to be walking away for a pathetic return.

[Redskins 2021]

 I am split on the Wentz thing.  If we did not get him who would we have gotten. People could say Mayfield but he was not available when we got Wentz. We needed to make a move when we did. Wentz is far from perfect but is probably the best we could do. 

[Est.1974]

Not surprised on the Payne rumor. I said I couldn’t seeing playing this season under his final year anyway. He wants paid and as things happen we have a receiver who is likely to get 25mil per year sometime soon. No way Payne can get 4/70mil from us like Allen.

 

Something has to give.

 

That said, its not great losing talent from the roster.....unless you do something better with the resulting capital you receive.

 

There are a lot of teams with multiple picks in each of the mid rounds. Maybe get a 2 and 4/5. Couple of 3rds. Don’t know.

 

Mayhew thinks we can get starters in the mid rounds at several positions. 
 

I don’t like potentially losing talented players but we need to see the fully picture of resulting moves if we trade him for example.

[The Consigliere]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No confusion I've been uber consistent.   I've said a zillion times Hamilton is not my guy at 11.   He's been consistently my 4th choice at 11.  My #1 guy seemingly forever guy would be Drake London.  Then Wilson.   I am intrigued with Jameson Williams if his speed checks out.  Lloyd also intrigued me but looks like he's out of consideration by this team.

 

But yeah to use an ice cream analogy, if I went to an icre cream shop and they were out of my top 3 flavors, i'd still be happy with the 4th -- Hamilton.

 

To each their own but i think the moaning on the thread by some about Hamilton at 11 surprises me.    He's a special player. 

 

I did say on this thread that IMO some mock drafters are too carried away with the generational stuff and their pushing that he's the best player in the draft -- i meant it as I said it.  That is, I don't think he's generational.   But I do think he is one of the best players in this draft.  I don't think he's the best.  But he does end up in my top 10 when i post my top 100.   

 

So even if he's not my top guy at 11, he's a stud IMO and an exciting get if they go that route. 

What do you think accounts for the speed issue? Was he carrying a knock or is he just not fast? I can honestly say I could have accepted him at 11 considering some of the write up, but the 40 was potentially so bad to borderline okay but not close to elite (4.59 to 4.70 which could be as bad as 4.75 considering it was hand timed) that it ruined him as a guy that could justify a selection that high. If your going to overreach positionally in round 1 that high it should be for a guy that checks every box and then some and that lack of top end speed is scary to me. I will add the strong caveat that he did test quite well in the explosion drills (vert and broad) so it might suggest more than meets the eye.

 

I hope you’re right about him, I’m nervous as hell and Olave over Wilson to me and even Jameson Williams strikes me as flat out nuts(not your take, just redskin preference apparently). I feel they got WR rankings completely backwards. Hope they’re right like they were w/McLaurin. Olave should be a solid WR but the upside is super limited. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Not surprised on the Payne rumor. I said I couldn’t seeing playing this season under his final year anyway. He wants paid and as things happen we have a receiver who is likely to get 25mil per year sometime soon. No way Payne can get 4/70mil from us like Allen.

 

Something has to give.

 

That said, its not great losing talent from the roster.....unless you do something better with the resulting capital you receive.

 

There are a lot of teams with multiple picks in each of the mid rounds. Maybe get a 2 and 4/5. Couple of 3rds. Don’t know.

 

Mayhew thinks we can get starters in the mid rounds at several positions. 
 

I don’t like potentially losing talented players but we need to see the fully picture of resulting moves if we trade him for example.

 

People aren't upset that we may be moving on from Payne.

 

It's the combo of that and losing both backup DTs. That's the concern. Losing Payne isn't great but something did have to give with the DL. 

[Ball Security]

I take what Mayhew said yesterday about moving all around in the draft and the timing of this report as a sign that they may already have something worked out and aren’t necessarily dealing from desperation.

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

People aren't upset that we may be moving on from Payne.

 

It's the combo of that and losing both backup DTs. That's the concern. Losing Payne isn't great but something did have to give with the DL. 

Yeah it sounds like Ion wanted out though didn’t it. Settle is the disappointing one for me.

 

Almost feels like Rivera wants to shift the balance of investment from D to O.

 

Or at least balance it out anyway.

[The Consigliere]

33 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

This is truly sickening news. The article reads like they have known this for some time too, which makes it even more mind-boggling. If we really do sit this out for a 3rd round comp pick and not spend any money in free agency again in order to keep it I will truly lose it.

 

I'm not going back pages to check but we had Davis in for a visit didn't we? I'm sure we discussed how odd it was at the time. I guess now we know.

Why are you concerned? Smart teams keep their books clean for flexibility and let guys go for comp picks unless they’re elite difference makers. Payne’s good but he’s not elite. Something on the order of 80-85% of draftees from what I recall get their second contract w/a different team. That’s just the way the NFL works. Not sure he would’ve fetched much more last offseason so what would you have the team do? We’re prioritizing Allen, Young and Sweat which makes sense as they are greater difference makers AND would fetch more in a trade anyway (not sure on Allen in terms of trade value).