The Official ES 2021 Free Agency Thread / Tracker Fitzpatrick, Curtis Samuel, William Jackson, LB Mayo, C Larsen WR Humphries, CB D. Roberts, KR D. Carter , LT Charles Leno, S Bobby McCain signed

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Wouldn’t surprise me if Moses has been advised to push for more money/ a contract extension, especially with Roullier now picking up 10mil per year and Scherff just inside him on 18mil.

 

Moses on a two year 15/16mil deal from here on in isn’t the worst in the world, so to move him on with both Leno and Lucas free agents next year is a bit strange. 
 

Hell maybe we just draft another OT next year and pair the rookie with Cosmi. Rookie contracts at both tackle positions. Might have that anyway unless Charles becomes a clear guard prospect.

I'd say this year is it for Scherff. If the offered him what they say they did and it was a LTD, he not see near the money come next year especially if he experiences more injuries.

 

While we seem to have a glut of OL right now, most of the good vets aren't signed for next year. Too bad they couldn't have signed Leno for more than one year

[mudhog]

57 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's a problem that Rivera is getting such comically crappy returns on the good players that were here before he took over though.  He's a bad trader.  And it's also a problem that Scherff's contract situation has gotten so out of hand that it's a foregone conclusion he'll walk heading into an offseason where the cap is supposed to explode and we had plenty of cap space the one before.  Stuff like this is why coaches usually make such bad GMs.  Hopefully the Martins can do a better job of minding the shop moving forward.

Normally I would agree with you Steve, but after reading SIP's post on the Keim podcast, it doesn't sound like this one is on RR. It just sounds like Scherff is fed the eff up and ready to pack it somewhere else. Putting the second tag on him at least ensures that we get something for him when he leaves.

[Die Hard]

8 minutes ago, mudhog said:

Putting the second tag on him at least ensures that we get something for him when he leaves.

This team has about $60M to spend next offseason. They’re going to sign some FA’s. So it’ll cancel out anything that they fetch for Scherff.

[CommDownMan]

So I think I had seen that Scherff wouldn't be deemed eligible for compensatory pick status due to the franchise tag.  I decided to dig a bit deeper.

Thurney, Ngakoue, Anthony Harris and Henry (maybe others) were FT'd last year and are part of the formula.  It seems only RFA not offered deals are disqualified.

 

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

 

Maybe this is known or said previously.  But for those that are curious...

[PartyPosse]

53 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

This team has about $60M to spend next offseason. They’re going to sign some FA’s. So it’ll cancel out anything that they fetch for Scherff.

60 million isn't all that much when you consider they're yet to lock up ANY of their core FAs (Terry, Jon Allen, Payne, Ion) not to mention they still won't have a QB which, unless we're drafting one early, is going to eat up about a third of that.

[Die Hard]

Just now, PartyPosse said:

60 million isn't all that much when you consider they're yet to lock up ANY of their core FAs (Terry, Jon Allen, Payne, Ion) not to mention they still won't have a QB which, unless we're drafting one early, is going to eat up about a third of that.

Only Allen is up next year.

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

Only Allen is up next year.

 

But we need to get better at being proactive. When you wait till they are up it forces the FT option which players are starting to learn how to use to play hardball. Thje time to have signed Scherff was Bruce's last year. That is why RR had no choice but to FT him. 

 

So they need to start signing guys the year before they are due. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

But we need to get better at being proactive.

 

 

Terry has only played 2 seasons.

How often do NFL teams extend players on rookie contracts, after just 2 seasons ?

In fact, I seem to recall maybe that they're not even allowed to do that.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's a problem that Rivera is getting such comically crappy returns on the good players that were here before he took over though.  He's a bad trader.  And it's also a problem that Scherff's contract situation has gotten so out of hand that it's a foregone conclusion he'll walk heading into an offseason where the cap is supposed to explode and we had plenty of cap space the one before.  Stuff like this is why coaches usually make such bad GMs.  Hopefully the Martins can do a better job of minding the shop moving forward.

 

I get your point but disagree on those three examples.    My point here isn't meant to be lecturing.  I am just explaining my mindset.   And the theme is a player's value versus a player's value in the trade market are two wildly different things.  It's taking me awhile to absorb that point especially as a baseball fan where that type of thing doesn't really exist.  But in football I've learned that perceived value versus trade market value are on two different planets with the exception of the QB spot and elite players or a rare anamoly. 

 

Bruce blew the leverage on the Trent trade not Rivera.    Depending on the reporter, they could have gotten a 2nd and a third or a first and a third during that season for Trent.  Why?  It wasn't because Bruce was the sharper negotiator so the value was higher then because it was driven by him -- it was just about what teams were willing to give up then.  Then, you still had Trent for 2 seasons instead of 1 and you had teams desperate for help during the season.  Once the season was over, the leverage was gone.  Teams weren't desperate because the season wasn't in progress.  Trent's contract had only 1 year left and it was no secret he wanted a big payday.  And you were competing against both the draft and FA where there were other fish in the sea.   Rivera held out right till the end, draft day, and that's the best offer he got.  He didn't blow it.  Bruce did.

 

I recall you thought they got ripped off on Dunbar.  Disagree on that one, too.   A 5th rounder for a corner who was decent but nothing special is a good get in football.  If it was baseball it would stink.  But in football, trades for draft picks are typically heavy underpays unless you are trading a marquee player or a team is desperate.  We all talk here about fantasy trades like I recall 2 years ago or so people thinking we could get a first for Kerrigan.  I recall a radio guy throwing that at a national insider at the time who laughed at that and said they'd be lucky to get a 5th for him.    In our minds we tend to think we can get these big hauls for players but the numbers of guys that go cheap or more often teams have to release the player is staggering. There is a big discrepancy between the value of a player versus the value of the player in a trade.  It's often two wildly different things.   It's not the same thing. 

 

Leno is a durable, ex-pro bowl player who plays a premium position.  Yet the Bears got nada for him.   Why?  Shouldn't the Bears get something for a left tackle who has played well?  The Giants talked up wanting a pick for Zeitler but in the end got nada for him.  I can come up with a ton of examples like that.  Guys who are good players who are released for nothing.   Reason seems to be teams value draft capital like gold.  To win you need to have cheap players on cheap contracts.  Other reason seems to be they'd rather not pay the money.  So you let the player hit the market and then negotiate them down.

 

Typically teams got to suck it up and take nothing for their player.  So a 5th for Dunbar is actually good in NFL terms.  If your point is Dunbar as a player is worth more than a 5th rounder then i agree.  But as for reality of the NFL trade market, a 5th if anything is a good deal.   Dunbar signed this season as a FA elsewhere for a bag of peanuts.  If they tried to trade Dunbar for anything this year, good luck with that, I'd bet you'd get nothing. 

 

As for Scherff its come out that they offered him contracts in the last two years including offering making him the highest paid guard in the league this year.  Scherff turned it down.  Scherff said he wants to be here but clearly I doubt that's true.  The NFL had other tagged players this off season including a double tag in Leonard Williams and they still worked out a long term contract.

 

I know you aren't a fan of Rivera having final say.   I get the point.  I don't love it in theory either but factoring context I do love it because I didn't want Jim Zorn Part 2 here.  This organization wasn't a hot destination spot at the time of the hire to say the least.   When Rivera was hired our organization was a national laughingstock, bleeding fans, worst stadium, worst facilities, with argubly one of the top 3 worst owners in sports.  As Sheehan likes to say we outkicked our coverage when we landed Rivera.  Getting an established culture bidder versus some likely 2nd tier flier I think was huge.   And I doubt we've have landed Rivera if he wasn't given that power.  Heck according to a reporter Bruce Allen might have remained too if Rivera wasn't given that power. 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Standig defending Rivera.  I agree

I'll say another thing about Standig: he, Walker, and Keim have all carried a ton of water for this regime, even when it's been clear that Rivera messed up.  David Aldridge has done it too, but to a lesser extent.  Standig has been the least objective/critical, and the tone of that article strikes me as too snarky and fawning for a beat reporter.  They're not supposed to be drinking the kool-aid.  I can't stand the media markets that are homers for the in-market franchises.  They always end up being shrill mediocrities.

[CommDownMan]

15 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

60 million isn't all that much when you consider they're yet to lock up ANY of their core FAs (Terry, Jon Allen, Payne, Ion) not to mention they still won't have a QB which, unless we're drafting one early, is going to eat up about a third of that.

 

14 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

Only Allen is up next year.

 

If playing well it could also go to Logan Thomas, McCain, Leno, Fitzmagic, Settle, Kyle Allen (ok, yeah that will be 850K) and maybe a guy or 2 I'm missing.  I'd imagine at least 2 of these guys is around 2022.

9 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Terry has only played 2 seasons.

How often do NFL teams extend players on rookie contracts, after just 2 seasons ?

In fact, I seem to recall maybe that they're not even allowed to do that.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-2021-nfl-rookie-contract-projections-for-key-round-1-picks-plus-a-rookie-wage-scale-explainer/

"Draft pick contracts can't be renegotiated until the conclusion of a player's third NFL regular season."

 

Conclusion of third year.  Next year is fair game.

 

[Koolblue13]

13 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Terry has only played 2 seasons.

How often do NFL teams extend players on rookie contracts, after just 2 seasons ?

In fact, I seem to recall maybe that they're not even allowed to do that.

I always forget this. I feel like he is a 10 year veteran already. Long live the TMac!

[Skinsinparadise]

During his visit with the team on May 10, Leno met with Coach Ron Rivera, General Manager Martin Mayhew, team president Jason Wright, offensive coordinator Scott Turner and offensive line coach John Matsko. What he found were like-minded coaches who were developing a culture he believed in and instilled teachings already familiar to him. From 2018-19 in Chicago, Leno’s offensive line coach was Harry Hiestand, who was an assistant to Matsko at the University of Southern California from 1987-88.

“So he took a lot of concepts that Matsko uses and that’s one thing that I really enjoy, because I know those concepts,” Leno said. “So it won’t take me a long time to figure out how to adjust.”

 

The chance to work with Rivera, whom Leno describes as more of a “life coach” than a football coach, was among the bigger selling points. So, too, was the trajectory of the team after it won the NFC East with a 7-9 record last season.

“I remember watching games last year and watching how competitive this team was,” Leno said. “Nobody gave this team a shot last year and they ended up winning the division and going to the playoffs and actually being competitive in the playoffs. That let me know right then and there that this is a team I want to be with. I’m a very competitive person and I want to match that, if not intensify that when I come here.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/05/20/charles-leno-daughter-washington-football-team/

 

 

 

[goskins10]

16 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Terry has only played 2 seasons.

How often do NFL teams extend players on rookie contracts, after just 2 seasons ?

In fact, I seem to recall maybe that they're not even allowed to do that.

 

No where did I suggest we sign Terry this year. I was responding to list of players that are coming up over the next few years that NEXT years $60M in CAP will be needed. My response was a more general response that we need to start signing players before their contracts are up. 

 

But if you want to talk Terry specifically, again the conversation was about NEXT offseason. At that time Terry would be 3 yrs into a 4 yr contract - not have 2 yrs left. So yes we should sign him at the end of this year before he finishes his final year. We keep waiting until guys are done with their final year and we get the Scherff situation.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by goskins10

[PartyPosse]

34 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

But we need to get better at being proactive. When you wait till they are up it forces the FT option which players are starting to learn how to use to play hardball. Thje time to have signed Scherff was Bruce's last year. That is why RR had no choice but to FT him. 

 

So they need to start signing guys the year before they are due. 

Yep. Why not sign and front load guys now with the money you have so you won’t be in cap hell when Chase and Sweat need extensions? 

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I always forget this. I feel like he is a 10 year veteran already. Long live the TMac!

 

It’s because he’s caught passes from the equivalent of 10 years’ worth of QBs (Keenum, McCoy, Haskins, Smith, Allen, Heinecke)

Edit: 7. He also caught a pass from Logan Thomas.

Edited May 20, 2021 by PartyPosse

[Skinsinparadise]

 

I

26 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'll say another thing about Standig: he, Walker, and Keim have all carried a ton of water for this regime, even when it's been clear that Rivera messed up.  David Aldridge has done it too, but to a lesser extent.  Standig has been the least objective/critical, and the tone of that article strikes me as too snarky and fawning for a beat reporter.  They're not supposed to be drinking the kool-aid.  I can't stand the media markets that are homers for the in-market franchises.  They always end up being shrill mediocrities.

 

Not sure what you are getting it as for he clearly messed up. 

 

But on the aggregate, his first year has been well received as far as I can tell with fans and according to national reporters he's helped start reestabish this team's reputation around the league.    The media tends to rally around any coach when he's off to a good start and they tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

I've had bosses that really like the job I do, they've seen me make mistakes (no one is perfect) but yet they don't rip me hard for those mistakes because its about the aggregate job.   Conversely, I've had co-workers from time to time in the dog house, and their bosses are more than happy to rip them for every slight.

 

Considering who the team owner is, IMO its better for Rivera to be loved by the media than ripped even if the ripping is just on occasion.  By some accounts, when Dan Snyder sees blood in the water, that's when he feels compelled to start interferring.  Kind of like George Steinbrenner used to do with the Yankees. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[PartyPosse]

I would like to make a motion that from now on any posts mentioning Julio Jones being a good fit here should result in a 7 day ban. Who’s with me?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I would like to make a motion that from now on any posts mentioning Julio Jones being a good fit here should result in a 7 day ban. Who’s with me?

 

I just saw one saying "Julio Jones being a good fit here"....does that count?

[PartyPosse]

10 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I just saw one saying "Julio Jones being a good fit here"....does that count?

FROM NOW ON I SAID!!

[Est.1974]

This team likely has at least 35-40 free agents next season based on the roster right now. Will be interesting to see what the final cuts leave us with in terms of 2022 FA’s.

[terpfan]

WR went from one of our weakest positions to potentially our second strongest after DL. Last thing we need is a 32 year old WR on massive contract. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by terpfan

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Didn't realize Morgan Moses had phenomenal size/length/width for OT but his athletic testing was abysmal.  Going to be weird going from Moses, to Cosmi who lacks the length but has otherworldly athletic testing.  Just hoping Cosmi has Moses durability.

[PartyPosse]

Just now, terpfan said:

WR went from one of our weakest positions to potentially our second strongest after DL. Last thing we need is a 30 years old WR on massive contract. 

We should trade for him.

Just now, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Didn't realize Morgan Moses had phenomenal size/length/width for OT but his athletic testing was abysmal.  Going to be weird going from Moses, to Cosmi who lacks the length but has otherworldly athletic testing.  Just hoping Cosmi has Moses durability.

The hope is to put the two of them in a room together with a bottle of wine and hopefully in 22 years we have the perfect tackle.

[terpfan]

Just now, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Didn't realize Morgan Moses had phenomenal size/length/width for OT but his athletic testing was abysmal.  Going to be weird going from Moses, to Cosmi who lacks the length but has otherworldly athletic testing.  Just hoping Cosmi has Moses durability.

Ironically Moses rarely missed games but he was *always* hurt. Hopefully Cosmi can avoid injuries both big and small...

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Didn't realize Morgan Moses had phenomenal size/length/width for OT but his athletic testing was abysmal.  Going to be weird going from Moses, to Cosmi who lacks the length but has otherworldly athletic testing.  Just hoping Cosmi has Moses durability.

I think we’re going from Moses to Lucas, following the move to get Leno at LT.