Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

Eh, the "Taylor Heinicke outplayed Ryan Fitzpatrick throughout the week" thing is from a guy who's very much a Heinicke homer. He already came out with an article in the past saying that Heinicke should be the starter. I think it's probably safe to say that he's not exactly what you'd call an impartial observer. 

 

It's a breath of fresh air compared to the other people who are treating a cicada landing on Fitzpatrick's beard second to Neil Armstrong's one giant leap for mankind.  

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It's a breath of fresh air compared to the other people who are treating a cicada landing on Fitzpatrick's beard second to Neil Armstrong's one giant leap for mankind.  

 

You know its funny. You and I have played this QB dance before, so I know you a bit, and I feel like you have already picked a side in this. Am I wrong in that or have you already put your cards all in on Heinicke? 

 

Not judging at all by the way. Just curious. I think i just now noticed you sour on a guy based on how much over the top praise he gets and like rooting for the talented underdog. 

 

 

I dont have a side at all btw, but I kinda want to see Heinicke do his thing. I feel like hes better if he can stay healthy. 

[DJHJR86]

Just now, Llevron said:

 

You know its funny. You and I have played this QB dance before, so I know you a bit, and I feel like you have already picked a side in this. Am I wrong in that or have you already put your cards all in on Heinicke? 

 

Not judging at all by the way. Just curious. I think i just now noticed you sour on a guy based on how much over the top praise he gets and like rooting for the talented underdog. 

 

I dont have a side at all btw, but I kinda want to see Heinicke do his thing. I feel like hes better if he can stay healthy. 

 

I'm not all in on Heinicke.  His durability is a huge red flag and an issue.  But I'm not at all sold on Fitzpatrick.  He's 38 years old, and we are currently at the "get paid" part of the cycle.

 

And it has nothing to do with me rooting for the "scrappy underdog", but I still think Kyle Allen is the wildcard in all of this just because of his relationship with Rivera and Turner.  But if you could guarantee Heinicke's health, he would definitely be the starter for me on week 1.  Fitzpatrick was, IMO, a low risk medium reward type of signing.  Which was cheap.  And I have no issues with him being on the roster.  But he's already being anointed by the fans and the media because of his meme status, and I think people are overrating him because of that.  

[Die Hard]

4 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

[Stefanskins]

14 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Eh, the "Taylor Heinicke outplayed Ryan Fitzpatrick throughout the week" thing is from a guy who's very much a Heinicke homer. He already came out with an article in the past saying that Heinicke should be the starter. I think it's probably safe to say that he's not exactly what you'd call an impartial observer. 

but how do u kno??...have u been there??...well let me tell u "sir"...I was there yje whole timw!!...and Heinecke was by far the better quarterback...tyvm

14 hours ago, Llevron said:

all in on Heinicke?

yes please...

[joeken24]

Taylor is Brees reincarnated. Mark it.

[DJHJR86]

On 6/19/2021 at 11:10 AM, joeken24 said:

Taylor is Brees reincarnated. Mark it.

 

He also could be John Beck.  We have to wait and see.

[JoggingGod]

Testing testing

[Rex Tomb]

What has been up with ES lately? I've been going through withdrawal over here 😁

[DJHJR86]

I didn't realize how many times Heinicke has been injured over the years.  Dude was injured in Minnesota, made his NFL debut with the Texans and got a concussion after throwing only 1 pass, and then when he got the chance to start again with the Panthers he suffered an elbow injury.  That's really alarming.  

[ODU AGGIE]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

I didn't realize how many times Heinicke has been injured over the years.  Dude was injured in Minnesota, made his NFL debut with the Texans and got a concussion after throwing only 1 pass, and then when he got the chance to start again with the Panthers he suffered an elbow injury.  That's really alarming.  

1. The Minnesota injury was  non-football related.

2. Concussions by QBs are not exactly rare. 

3. The elbow injury happened when he was sacked and the defense was flagged for roughing the passer. It was a serious injury that required surgery, but he did return to the game with a brace on his arm.

4. Additionally, the injury in the Bucs game, though painful, was relatively minor, and he did not miss an offensive series while continuing to play very well.

Is his injury record cause for concern. I don't know, maybe so. Is it "really alarming"? I think that is sheer hyperbole. We will never know if the concern is real if he is not given the opportunity to put his skills on the field on a regular basis as a starter.

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

1. The Minnesota injury was  non-football related.

2. Concussions by QBs are not exactly rare. 

3. The elbow injury happened when he was sacked and the defense was flagged for roughing the passer. It was a serious injury that required surgery, but he did return to the game with a brace on his arm.

4. Additionally, the injury in the Bucs game, though painful, was relatively minor, and he did not miss an offensive series while continuing to play very well.

Is his injury record cause for concern. I don't know, maybe so. Is it "really alarming"? I think that is sheer hyperbole. We will never know if the concern is real if he is not given the opportunity to put his skills on the field on a regular basis as a starter.

 

Where there's smoke, there's fire. People on this board are hardly the only ones who have noticed that Heinicke seems to have an injury problem. Rivera and others in the FO have noted it as well. 

 

Whether it's fair or not, the fact is that Heinicke has an injury history. Pretty much every time he's stepped on the field in a game, he's ended up injured somehow. That's not good.

 

Is "alarming" the right word? I dunno, it's just semantics. I'd be pretty shocked if any NFL team didn't at least find his injury history worrying.

Edited June 24, 2021 by mistertim

[ODU AGGIE]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Where there's smoke, there's fire. People on this board are hardly the only ones who have noticed that Heinicke seems to have an injury problem. Rivera and others in the FO have noted it as well. 

 

Whether it's fair or not, the fact is that Heinicke has an injury history. Pretty much every time he has stepped on the field in a game, he's ended up injured somehow. That's not good.

 

Is "alarming" the right word? I dunno, it's just semantics. I'd be pretty shocked if any NFL team didn't at least find his injury history worrying.

MT, I don't think we are that far apart in our opinions. It's just a matter of how we state it, and what we seem to suggest. Let me ask you this hypothetical. You are the coach. You have made it clear there will be a competition for the starting QB position. You proceed through training camp and preseason, and you conclude that it is close, that Heinicke has remained healthy and that he has an observable edge in the competition, but you also remain concerned about his proclivity for injury. Who do you name as the starter?

 

 P.S. I would start Heinicke because he has outperformed FitzMagic during the competition. If he does get injured, I can always turn to his somewhat less capable backup. Conversely, if FitzMagic wins the competition, I would start him -- and bring in his injury prone backup when necessary.
 

[DJHJR86]

45 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

You proceed through training camp and preseason, and you conclude that it is close, that Heinicke has remained healthy and that he has an observable edge in the competition, but you also remain concerned about his proclivity for injury. Who do you name as the starter?

 

If it's "close"?  Fitzpatrick until the inevitable Fitztragic.  Then it's Heinicke time.  

[ODU AGGIE]

12 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

If it's "close"?  Fitzpatrick until the inevitable Fitztragic.  Then it's Heinicke time.  

Why wait if TH had the "edge"?

[wit33]

On 6/21/2021 at 7:18 AM, Koolblue13 said:

It's why I'm glad we'll eventually have a QB of the future on a rookie deal too. Only way we keep those 4 and TMac.

Ron and company have many options, especially if this years draft class produces another 3-4 starters with going hard after a rookie QB next draft and riding that window with a cheap QB and what we all hope is an elite roster (top 5-7 type). Could be a special window. 
 

I’m all about value at the position and believe in the coming years cap percentage taken by the QB will be common discussion amongst media and fans in relation to winning consistently. For example Brady was at about 10% last year and will be at 5% this year. He was always around 8-10% after rookie deal when with the Patriots. 
 

It seems fans and media just group all elite QBs together and point to stats and in season win (valuable metrics), but levels exist within the elite and what they’re being paid has a great deal to do with it. Data of how guys being paid 11-20% i of their teams cap should be begin to enter our scope of understanding a QBs value. 
 

Where teams have ran into trouble in the past is paying there average QB big time money after a great season or two by the team. This was bad business, but I believe organizations are catching on to this and making some adjustments in how they value and pay QBs. 
 

Not all directed at you, just throwing some thoughts out there. 

 

2 hours ago, ODU AGGIE said:

1. The Minnesota injury was  non-football related.

2. Concussions by QBs are not exactly rare. 

3. The elbow injury happened when he was sacked and the defense was flagged for roughing the passer. It was a serious injury that required surgery, but he did return to the game with a brace on his arm.

4. Additionally, the injury in the Bucs game, though painful, was relatively minor, and he did not miss an offensive series while continuing to play very well.

Is his injury record cause for concern. I don't know, maybe so. Is it "really alarming"? I think that is sheer hyperbole. We will never know if the concern is real if he is not given the opportunity to put his skills on the field on a regular basis as a starter.

I think it’s the injury combined with being a small dude by NFL standards. Some responsibility falls on him for waiting to put on mass until now. I’m sure his size has always been a point of an issue and communicated to him in the past. Why did it take so long to get in the weight room?

 

Side note: I’m all about Taylor becoming the man for many reasons, but understand the organization having concerns about him lasting 17 games. 

[drowland]

8 hours ago, ODU AGGIE said:

1. The Minnesota injury was  non-football related.

2. Concussions by QBs are not exactly rare. 

3. The elbow injury happened when he was sacked and the defense was flagged for roughing the passer. It was a serious injury that required surgery, but he did return to the game with a brace on his arm.

4. Additionally, the injury in the Bucs game, though painful, was relatively minor, and he did not miss an offensive series while continuing to play very well.

Is his injury record cause for concern. I don't know, maybe so. Is it "really alarming"? I think that is sheer hyperbole. We will never know if the concern is real if he is not given the opportunity to put his skills on the field on a regular basis as a starter.

 

For a guy with just 2 career NFL starts and something like 120 pass attempts I'd say yes, it's alarming.  Taylor earned a chance to show what he can do but wake me when he strings together some good games and doesn't look like he just stepped out of the ring with Tyson afterwards.  With Houston didn't he get in a game for 1 play and get knocked out of the game with a concussion?  

[tmandoug1]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Where there's smoke, there's fire. People on this board are hardly the only ones who have noticed that Heinicke seems to have an injury problem. Rivera and others in the FO have noted it as well. 

 

Whether it's fair or not, the fact is that Heinicke has an injury history. Pretty much every time he's stepped on the field in a game, he's ended up injured somehow. That's not good.

 

Is "alarming" the right word? I dunno, it's just semantics. I'd be pretty shocked if any NFL team didn't at least find his injury history worrying.

Where there's smoke there's fire.......interception machines don't change their ways after playing 15 years of football. But let's not debate because you've already made up your mind about TH. Sorry had to.....🤣🤣🤣🤣

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Where there's smoke there's fire.......interception machines don't change their ways after playing 15 years of football. But let's not debate because you've already made up your mind about TH. Sorry had to.....🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

By pretty much any measurable criteria Fitz has elevated his game over the past 2-3 years. Again, I'm hardly the only one saying this...the coaches and FO have noted it as well.

 

As far as TH, I haven't made up my mind about him at all because there's barely any sample size to go on (which has always been my point with regards to him). If Rivera thinks he's the guy, great and I hope he lights it up.

 

But none of that changes the fact that pretty much any time Heinicke has stepped on an NFL field during a game, he's gotten hurt. I hope that's in the past, but anyone pretending like it's not a legit concern is deluding themselves IMO.

[tmandoug1]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

By pretty much any measurable criteria Fitz has elevated his game over the past 2-3 years. Again, I'm hardly the only one saying this...the coaches and FO have noted it as well.

 

As far as TH, I haven't made up my mind about him at all because there's barely any sample size to go on (which has always been my point with regards to him). If Rivera thinks he's the guy, great and I hope he lights it up.

 

But none of that changes the fact that pretty much any time Heinicke has stepped on an NFL field during a game, he's gotten hurt. I hope that's in the past, but anyone pretending like it's not a legit concern is deluding themselves IMO.

But yet you give Fitz the key to the city even though his last 27 teams haven't.  That is my issue....can't hammer the rookie with durability issues and embrace the dude from Fast Times at Ridgemont High that has zero success in the NFL. But hey.....I'm just sayin...and it don't mean nothing.

Edited June 25, 2021 by tmandoug1

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

But yet you give Fitz the key to the city even though his last 27 teams haven't.  That is my issue....cast aside the rookie with durability issues and embrace the dude from Fast Times at Ridgemont High that has zero success in the NFL. But hey.....I'm just sayin...and it don't mean nothing.

 

I'm not giving Fitz the keys to anything; it sounds like the coaches mostly are unless something unforeseen happens. So take it up with them, not me.

 

And Heinicke is 28 years old and has been in the NFL since 2015. He's not a rookie. Yeah he hasn't played much but he's still been on multiple practice squads and had offseason workouts with NFL teams so it's not like he's had no exposure.

 

The fact that every time he has stepped on an NFL field in a game he's gotten hurt is worrying though so I can understand coaches being wary of it.

[tmandoug1]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm not giving Fitz the keys to anything; it sounds like the coaches mostly are unless something unforeseen happens. So take it up with them, not me.

 

And Heinicke is 28 years old and has been in the NFL since 2015. He's not a rookie. Yeah he hasn't played much but he's still been on multiple practice squads and had offseason workouts with NFL teams so it's not like he's had no exposure.

 

The fact that every time he has stepped on an NFL field in a game he's gotten hurt is worrying though so I can understand coaches being wary of it.

How many times has he stepped on an NFL field.....and don't count the illegal mashing he got at the Panthers game. You can't hold him accountable for getting his ass stomped illegally.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, wit33 said:

I think it’s the injury combined with being a small dude by NFL standards. Some responsibility falls on him for waiting to put on mass until now. I’m sure his size has always been a point of an issue and communicated to him in the past. Why did it take so long to get in the weight room?

 

Side note: I’m all about Taylor becoming the man for many reasons, but understand the organization having concerns about him lasting 17 games. 

 

Him being a small dude IMO is the operative point about his injuries as far as my concern coupled with those who know him best including even his biggest cheerleader, his ex-ODU coach, has stressed it's a concern he needs to overcome.  I'll use a player that I recall both you and me liked before that draft, Kyler Murray.  I liked Murray a lot.  But he's also a really small guy.  Short with a small frame.  If Murray in his short career was nicked up multiple times regardless of the reasons why -- I'd be concerned about him because looking at him, it wouldn't strike me a fluke that he'd be injury prone.  Thus far, Murray has been relatively fine.  But Murray would be my closest apples to apples comparison to Heincike frame wise.

 

I wish we knew Heinicke's actual size.  Heinicke himself has said in an interview he's not the 6"1 he's listed as, I wish i can find that interview but I recall it.  And then in another interview when he come out in the NFL he said he is that size.  he doesn't look 6"1 to me but my concern is more his frame than his height.

 

I like his style of play.  I'd love for him to be the guy.  But I'd feel better if i didn't hear his old coach and his current coaches double down on the injury concerns.   I am real curious to see if that 15 pounds maybe changed it? 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/taylor-heinicke-admits-people-gym-dont-believe-hes-nfl-qb

And when he's not wearing the Burgundy and Gold uniform, ends up some people don't even believe Heinicke is an NFL quarterback. 

"When my trainer introduces me to new people as an NFL quarterback, [they say], ‘No, he’s not. This guy is like 5’10” looking 170,’” Heinicke said. “Actually have to go prove myself to everybody out there."

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm not giving Fitz the keys to anything; it sounds like the coaches mostly are unless something unforeseen happens. So take it up with them, not me.

 

And Heinicke is 28 years old and has been in the NFL since 2015. He's not a rookie. Yeah he hasn't played much but he's still been on multiple practice squads and had offseason workouts with NFL teams so it's not like he's had no exposure.

 

The fact that every time he has stepped on an NFL field in a game he's gotten hurt is worrying though so I can understand coaches being wary of it.

 

I talked about this some in a different thread but I'll expand on it here.  Been diving into a lot of podcasts from camp and Rivera interviews.  My take from them..

 

A.  Fitzpatrick started well in camp.  Then had a couple of choppy practices.

B.  Fitzpatrick got every single snap against the #1 defense.

C.  Fitzpatrick has already won over the locker room.  Rivera loves his veteran leadership.

D.  Fitzpatrick would have to bomb training camp to lose the job.  Rivera flat out say its his job right now.   It's not defacto 50-50 up for grabs.

E.  Most said Heinicke looked sharp in practice.  Forgetting which beat guy said it (maybe Standig?) said he looked good but not great 

F.   Most say since Heinicke did all his work against the #2's that they aren't buying a real competition until they see Heinicke go up against the #1 defense

G.  Heinicke at this given time has a better mastery of the offense than Fitz does

H.  Rivera is open to either Fitz or Heinicke being the guy in 2022, too.

I.   Rivera thinks Heinicke can push Fitz in practice and vice versa and is playing that up. In essence Heinicke has a shot to unseat Fitz. 

J.  Some beat guys think Rivera playing that up is his style with all spots, he wants everyone pushing everyone to bring out everyone's best.

K.  Kyle Allen is clearly out of the running to be the starter.  If I had to go with one clear takeaway among all these points it would be that Rivera doesn't think Allen is as good as Fitz or Heinicke and isn't shy making that clear. 

L.  Definitely the coaches are intrigued with Heinicke but are also concerned about durability

 

I am relatively one of the biggest Fitz guys here.  I am actually fairly strong pro Heinicke too as for his play but I don't brush off durability concerns.   I try to be objective listening to this stuff.  If anything I'd favor Heinicke winning the job because of his age.  The impression I get is that Fitzpatrick does end up the starter unless he has a meltdown in camp which I doubt happens.  We had people like Standig say in a column that Fitz looked super accurate in practice.  So at times obviously he looked sharp.  But I gather the practice he had with multiple picks  (Heinicke had a pick, too in that one) damaged his overall rep for camp because leading up to that it was pretty positive.

 

My guess is Fitz starts.  But if Heinicke burns it up in camp and especially if he stays healthy through the pre season then he has a shot to take the job during the season if Fitz struggles.

 

It's funny to listen to Heinicke's ex-ODU coach talk about this.  I've heard two interviews where he somewhat implies that the dude who starts the season might be at a disadvantage because of the strong run of opponents during the first part of the season.   He implies without explicitly saying it that Heinicke just needs to stay ready if he doesn't win the job because the opportunity may come considering who the WFT play in the first half of the season.  He's gracious though about Fitz.  He doesn't rip him at all.   He complements him and went on about how Heinicke himself loves Fitz who has already taught him some useful tips, etc.

 

 

[ODU AGGIE]

13 hours ago, drowland said:

 

For a guy with just 2 career NFL starts and something like 120 pass attempts I'd say yes, it's alarming.  Taylor earned a chance to show what he can do but wake me when he strings together some good games and doesn't look like he just stepped out of the ring with Tyson afterwards.  With Houston didn't he get in a game for 1 play and get knocked out of the game with a concussion?  

Not that it makes any difference to the point you are making, but just for clarity, no, he did not get knocked out on his first play. He had one play before half time and then started the second half. He had ten total plays and completed his only pass before being concussed. Ironically, he was in for T. J. Yates who went out for a concussion protocol of his own. Yates, by the way, was playing because Tom Savage was out with a concussion from the game before. Yates passed the concussion protocol and came back into the game to replace Heinicke. I don't know, maybe Houston needed to have their QB helmets checked. /s/ Cheers.