Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Morneblade]

Outside Giving TH a cannon for a arm, what he needs to really be coached on is to trust reads and his guys. I think we all forget, he's 29, but hasn't played a lot of ball in the last several years. He's not really anticipating a lot of these throws. And he doesn't have the arm to wait until his guy is "officially" open. You don't have to have a big arm, but if you don't you need to be able to makes throws to a point and trust your guy gets there. TH isn't there, yet. Hopefully with a little time he will start to get there. And stop waiting that extra tick to make the throw. He does that, he becomes a good NFL QB. Not just lower tier average guy that does make plays when the chips are down, but a guy that can take command and beat a team going away.

 

Another thing I would do as a playcaller. TH has come out "hot" and tends to throw the ball high. I'd give him a couple easy touch throws, maybe a couple screens, to get him a chance to come down a bit.

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I was worried about Heinicke when we were down 10-0, he wasn't just throwing high but he was inaccurate on the short throws but he came back and lead us to TD's on the next 2 offensive drives.

 

I wonder if this guy can be a Kirk type but with added traits like better athleticism and the ability to lead his team to victory at the end of games. People said Kirk had a weak arm as well but we learned his arm was fine, but it took a while.

 

I've seen Kirk throw in multiple camps including in his younger years and I saw Heinicke this year.  Kirk never had a rocket but had decent arm strength from the jump IMO.  Heinicke to me is somewhere between Kirk and Colt as for arm strength.  I am not so sure he can improve his arm strength much.  But heck like any player, the more you play the better you can get.  And he seems self aware and is a studier so I think he can keep getting better.    So far so good as to staying healthy which is my top concern about him. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

No other analysis except that he has “it”. I love analytics and numbers but some guys transcend them. He does. 
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Outside Giving TH a cannon for a arm, what he needs to really be coached on is to trust reads and his guys. I think we all forget, he's 29,

 

28 but will be 29 next year.

 

17 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

He's not really anticipating a lot of these throws. And he doesn't have the arm to wait until his guy is "officially" open.

 

Actually I do think he throws with anticipation.  I think his issue is when his first read isn't open and locks onto his next guy and the CB reads his eyes they can jump the pass because the balls don't come with much zip.

 

Most QBs have a weakness, I think his arm strength just is what it is.  I don't think its going to improve at his age and sometimes it will get him in trouble.   But his other attributes make up for it. 

 

IMO his strength is he has some Russell Wilson in him on three fronts.

 

A.  His ability to escape the pocket and make off platform throws -- he's off the carts on that front like Wilson

 

B.  Like Wilson he's a gamer.  Makes big plays in big moments. 

 

C.  He has a never say die attitude on plays

Edited October 3, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

A lot of people are dumping on this throw, because it was up for grabs. And yeah, it was ugly, because his arm got hit as he was trying to throw it. Better than a sack, because we're down by 8 and Hop missing everything and a D that can't stop anyone.

 

1st and 10 inside the 20. 4 minutes left in the game. Down by 8. That is an insanely dumb throw to make in that situation because the likely outcome of a toss up with 2 DBs and 1 WR in a compressed red zone play area is an interception. And in that circumstance an interception is quite possibly the end of the game for you. So I can't see how it's better than a sack.

 

Look, I loved watching that play. I screamed like a little girl when it happened. But it was a stupid throw. If it had been picked instead of Terry making an amazing catch, everyone would be asking what in the hell was going through Heinicke's head to do something like that on 1st and 10 inside the 20.

 

If it were 3rd down or 4th down,  then yeah...I get it. Last chance to make something happen; YOLO. But he had 3 more downs after that inside the 20 to make something happen.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

28 but will be 29 next year.

 

 

Actually I do think he throws with anticipation.  I think his issue is when his first read isn't open and locks into his next guy and the CB reads his eyes they can jump the pass because the balls don't come with much zip.

 

Most QBs have a weakness, I think his arm strength just is what it is.  I don't think its going to improve at his age and sometimes it will get him in trouble. 

 

IMO his strength is he has some Russell Wilson in him on two fronts.

 

A.  His ability to escape the pocket and make off platform throws -- he's off the carts on that front like Wilson

 

B.  Like Wilson he's a gamer.  Makes big plays in big moments. 

 

 There is some of that, but I've noticed on quite a few throws he waits a tick, sometimes even double clutches before making the throw. 2 of the "almost" int's were because of exactly that. If he can pull the trigger a tick faster, he will clean up a lot of issues. If he can do that, I'll be real happy having him be out QB. Especially if our D ever starts playing. Right now, the way things stand with that, we need Aaron Rodgers on fire to have a shot at having a winning record.

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

1st and 10 inside the 20. 4 minutes left in the game. Down by 8. That is an insanely dumb throw to make in that situation because the likely outcome of a toss up with 2 DBs and 1 WR in a compressed red zone play area is an interception. And in that circumstance an interception is quite possibly the end of the game for you. So I can't see how it's better than a sack.

 

Look, I loved watching that play. I screamed like a little girl when it happened. But it was a stupid throw. If it had been picked instead of Terry making an amazing catch, everyone would be asking what in the hell was going through Heinicke's head to do something like that on 1st and 10 inside the 20.

 

If it were 3rd down or 4th down,  then yeah...I get it. Last chance to make something happen; YOLO. But he had 3 more downs after that inside the 20 to make something happen.

 

 

I have a question about this. Was it his decision to go to McLaurin that was insanely dumb? Or was it because he put up a duck?

[Malapropismic Depository]

 

Heinick isn't just a Legend.

He's contagious

Last week Gibson did the Heinicke Pylon Dive, for a TD

This week McKissic does it.

It's the Heinicke Dive, not Hive

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Thinking Skins]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

28 but will be 29 next year.

 

 

Actually I do think he throws with anticipation.  I think his issue is when his first read isn't open and locks onto his next guy and the CB reads his eyes they can jump the pass because the balls don't come with much zip.

 

Most QBs have a weakness, I think his arm strength just is what it is.  I don't think its going to improve at his age and sometimes it will get him in trouble.   But his other attributes make up for it. 

 

IMO his strength is he has some Russell Wilson in him on three fronts.

 

A.  His ability to escape the pocket and make off platform throws -- he's off the carts on that front like Wilson

 

B.  Like Wilson he's a gamer.  Makes big plays in big moments. 

 

C.  He has a never say die attitude on plays

I think this is the best comp but I'd say that we're still not seeing the true Heinicke because he doesn't really believe in himself yet. I say that because as Sanchez pointed out on one almost INT he had the play but double and triple pumped before letting go. Last week, it was him not running the ball. Other times it's been him taking the hit. 

 

I think he's still trying to prove he can play with the big boys and at the same time play mistake free football and that's hurting him in some of his progress. But ignoring his number of games played and age, when's the last time we've had a 4 or 5 game stretch by a qb like this? You could say Cousins but I remember the aggravation with Cousins for not doing what TH does, i.e. running when it's there,  putting the ball in the hands of his playmaker, extending plays,  etc. 

 

Arm strength is what it is but the question is can be hit the open guy down the sideline or zip the ball into tight coverage and he's shown is that over and over again. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's a great story.  Cool guy.  Lots of moxie.  Great pocket presence.  If I were a genie though I'd give him more arm strength.  

 

He looked alright in a dome!  But yeah, there were several throws where he was late and you could tell a big armed QB would have been able to turn that into a super explosive play.  He sees them as he has that playmaking instinct, he just doesn't quite have the arm to exploit those special windows.

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

I think we’ve learned enough to state with confidence that Heineke is a legit NFL QB. It’s still to be discovered where he falls in that group: average, good, very good, great, but he has shown he belongs in the field with other starters. 

I've been saying on Twitter that he's not an all pro yet but nothing he's shown me says he doesn't belong. That's 2 game winning drives in 3 weeks, and the game never seemed too much for him. Dude looks legit. Maybe one day he'll have a come to Jesus moment but based on the evidence dude is legit

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

TH seems to be late on a lot of throws downfield when the WR is open. I am not sure if it is arm strength specifically, or the loft on the throw, like is he putting too much air under it, which gives defenders time to get into better position?  Is it simply being late on his reads?  That one play where Terry beats his man badly, throws his arm up to show he is open.......if the ball is delivered on a tighter line, Terry is making that catch and running for awhile.  Instead it is floated to him, and the defender has time to run over there and break it up.  Not sure if he was under a ton of pressure and had to change trajectory of the throw or not, but games like this show why it is a mistake to have final judgements on him as a QB so early based on a few really good plays vs a few really bad plays.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think he's overthinking it. I think he wants to make sure he gets it there and doesn't over or underthrow it. It has cost us in some near picks but I just have to remember that this is like still less than 10 games he's played in total. So the game is still slowing down. And I think the being late is just him getting it right as something to build on.

[mistertim]

53 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I have a question about this. Was it his decision to go to McLaurin that was insanely dumb? Or was it because he put up a duck?

 

I'm not sure if we can really separate them because the play had broken down so we don't know what the initial reads were or where Terry was on the normal progression. We do know that after things broke down he decided to throw up a pass to a double covered guy in the end zone on 1st and 10 inside the 20 with 4 minutes left when down by 8 points and that the pass was a duck.

 

I think in that circumstance both of those things were bad. Deciding to throw the pass was dumb and it being a duck made it even worse.

Edited October 3, 2021 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think this is the best comp but I'd say that we're still not seeing the true Heinicke because he doesn't really believe in himself yet. I say that because as Sanchez pointed out on one almost INT he had the play but double and triple pumped before letting go. Last week, it was him not running the ball. Other times it's been him taking the hit. 

 

 

I agree that I think he's feeling out his game still so its a work in progress.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

but I remember the aggravation with Cousins for not doing what TH does, i.e. running when it's there,  putting the ball in the hands of his playmaker, extending plays,  etc. 

 

Cousins and Heinicke to me are apples to oranges.  Cousins IMO is built to be more of a pocket passer, play action IMO is his strength.  Kirk has some athleticism but to me he's not an extend the play kind of guy not just in attitude but also ability.   So if Kirk ran or not I didn't lose sleep over it.  He did though get the ball in the hands of his playmakers so I disagree with that criticism.  Heinicke to me plays with more moxie though than Kirk and has the natural agility and speed to extend plays in ways the Kirk couldn't.   They are different type of QBs IMO.

 

20 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Arm strength is what it is but the question is can be hit the open guy down the sideline or zip the ball into tight coverage and he's shown is that over and over again. 

 

I do think he throws well with anticipation.  But zipping balls in tight coverages over and over again, I disagree.    But he hits receivers in stride, throws a very catchable ball and can extend plays with the best of them IMO. 

 

 

[Morneblade]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

I'm not sure if we can really separate them because the play had broken down so we don't know what the initial reads were or where Terry was on the normal progression. We do know that after things broke down he decided to throw up a pass to a double covered guy in the end zone on 1st and 10 inside the 20 with 4 minutes left when down by 8 points and that the pass was a duck.

 

I think in that circumstance both of those things were bad. Deciding to throw the pass was dumb and it being a duck just made it even worse.

 

Ok. The duck isn't on him though. Arm got hit in the act of throwing.

 

All that being said I would normally agree with you. Right now, not as much. Take a sack, it will probably be a FG situation, and I'd have no confidence in Hopkins. And no confidence in the D to get an actual stop. I agree it's a low % play. But with everything else going the way it has been, I think he has to be aggressive. Because everyone else was s***ing the bed.

[PartyPosse]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I do think he throws well with anticipation.  But zipping balls in tight coverages over and over again, I disagree.    But he hits receivers in stride, throws a very catchable ball and can extend plays with the best of them IMO. 

Problem is they're not just catchable for his own receivers.

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm not sure if we can really separate them because the play had broken down so we don't know what the initial reads were or where Terry was on the normal progression. We do know that after things broke down he decided to throw up a pass to a double covered guy in the end zone on 1st and 10 inside the 20 with 4 minutes left when down by 8 points and that the pass was a duck.

 

I think in that circumstance both of those things were bad. Deciding to throw the pass was dumb and it being a duck made it even worse.

I don't know that it was dumb. I look at the throw from this context. The game was winding down and the defense was likely going to give up a score. Hopkins was shaky as hell. You couldn't afford a drive without points. So going for it was the only shot he had at keeping us in the game.

 

If Heinike had thrown the ball away to secure the field goal try and if by some miracle Hopkins made it then the Falcons would have just scored again and extended the lead so that it was impossible to make a comeback. If Hopkins misses then the Falcons would have scored again and widened the lead so that the 'skins couldn't catch up.

[Thinking Skins]

@Skinsinparadise,  Sheehan is probably the biggest hater faker on radio of Heinicke. I can't take him. 

[dunfer]

26 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think this is the best comp but I'd say that we're still not seeing the true Heinicke because he doesn't really believe in himself yet. I say that because as Sanchez pointed out on one almost INT he had the play but double and triple pumped before letting go. Last week, it was him not running the ball. Other times it's been him taking the hit. 

 

I think he's still trying to prove he can play with the big boys and at the same time play mistake free football and that's hurting him in some of his progress. But ignoring his number of games played and age, when's the last time we've had a 4 or 5 game stretch by a qb like this? You could say Cousins but I remember the aggravation with Cousins for not doing what TH does, i.e. running when it's there,  putting the ball in the hands of his playmaker, extending plays,  etc. 

 

Arm strength is what it is but the question is can be hit the open guy down the sideline or zip the ball into tight coverage and he's shown is that over and over again. 

he floats some that his guys seem to come down with. most folks call that touch

6 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Problem is they're not just catchable for his own receivers.

most balls thrown arent

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

@Skinsinparadise,  Sheehan is probably the biggest hater faker on radio of Heinicke. I can't take him. 

 

Sheehan isn't that different from most of the media who cover the team.  Their thesis is Heinicke is a nice story but they don't think he's the long term answer here just yet.  I am listening to Nick Ashooh right now.  He's echoing the same thought.  Their take doesn't bother me.   If I was buying stock right now, I'd dip in and buy some Heinicke stock but I am not going full blown at it where I am putting major money in that stock.  I get the stay medium or I need to see more mindset.    This isn't the first rodeo where we think we got the solution in hand based on a small sample and its blown up in our faces.  Maybe the story ends up different this time.  I am certainly intrigued.  Will see.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

Turner did a nice job in the 2nd half of playing TH to his strengths which is using his legs to make plays. Make TH multi-dimensional and he is a nightmare for opponents. We don't need a QB, we need a defense at this point, either that or a better defensive philosophy. Teams are watching film on us and killing us because we do nothing different. ****, we can't stop anyone on 3rd down and we know they're gonna pass the ball. It's ****ing disgraceful.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Ok. The duck isn't on him though. Arm got hit in the act of throwing.

 

All that being said I would normally agree with you. Right now, not as much. Take a sack, it will probably be a FG situation, and I'd have no confidence in Hopkins. And no confidence in the D to get an actual stop. I agree it's a low % play. But with everything else going the way it has been, I think he has to be aggressive. Because everyone else was s***ing the bed.

 

Well I think it would have been somewhat lofted either way, as he doesn't have the arm strength to put it on a rope into the back of the end zone (if he could do that and put it where only his guy could get it or nobody could, then I'd be ok with it).

 

If you take a sack or throw it away (throwing it away would be much better, obviously) then it wouldn't be a FG situation because you still have 3 more downs inside the 20 and 4 minutes to get into the end zone (I agree that they wouldn't have wanted to settled for a FG there, so it was 4 down territory).

 

So I just disagree with the premise that the throw was in any way necessary, let alone a good idea, in that situation.

 

3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I don't know that it was dumb. I look at the throw from this context. The game was winding down and the defense was likely going to give up a score. Hopkins was shaky as hell. You couldn't afford a drive without points. So going for it was the only shot he had at keeping us in the game.

 

If Heinike had thrown the ball away to secure the field goal try and if by some miracle Hopkins made it then the Falcons would have just scored again and extended the lead so that it was impossible to make a comeback. If Hopkins misses then the Falcons would have scored again and widened the lead so that the 'skins couldn't catch up.

 

Pretty much the same answer for this one. You're making it sound like it was 3rd or 4th down or there was 10 second left in the game. That wasn't the case. A full 4 minutes left and 3 additional downs if that one doesn't work.

 

Heinicke throwing the ball away there wouldn't be securing a field goal try, it would be ensuring that we still had 3 additional downs to try and punch it into the end zone instead of throwing a likely game ending interception on a hope and a prayer pass.

 

The amazing happened, and the hope and a prayer worked out. But if it hadn't and it had been intercepted, Rivera would likely be talking in his post-loss presser about how he thought Heinicke played pretty well but he has to learn to make better decisions in those situations because bad ones like that cost you games.

[Indi1988]

This dude is straight up clutch. He might not be the most gifted arm talent wise but he has zero fear and is a legit dual threat quarterback. Legit speed.

 

I’m pretty sure we also lead the league in least sack taken because Taylor rarely gets sacked. he escapes the pocket just like a Russell Wilson lite. 
 

 

[Morneblade]

I suppose the big question is this: How many games would we have won with Fitz? Smith? Allen? McCoy? Cousins?

 

I think we likely have a loosing record with all of them.