The Vaccine Thread

[mojo]

1 hour ago, skinsmarydu said:

He's my friend and said it a whole lot classier than I would have. 

My apologies. Wishing death on people is something I don’t do. Kind of a rule of thumb of mine. But you do your thing.

[NickyJ]

I dunno how I feel about forcing businesses to do the work of punishing anti-vaccers. If anything, why not make vaccines mandatory, enforced by the government and not through businesses? I'd support it, and both would probably be challenged in court anyway.

 

Also, why not a government paid bonus for getting fully vaccinated, like a $1000 check? It's paid a lot more for people being put out of work by Covid. Putting Covid at a much less dangerous infection rate would likely save the government money in the long run.

[mojo]

1 hour ago, skinsmarydu said:

5 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I dunno how I feel about forcing businesses to do the work of punishing anti-vaccers. If anything, why not make vaccines mandatory, enforced by the government and not through businesses? I'd support it, and both would probably be challenged in court anyway.

 

Also, why not a government paid bonus for getting fully vaccinated, like a $1000 check? It's paid a lot more for people being put out of work by Covid. Putting Covid at a much less dangerous infection rate would likely save the government money in the long run.

Totally agree.  With all money that’s spent over the last 17 months, pay the people if it’s really such a priority.  Don’t put all the pressure on the working class.

[Riggo-toni]

2 hours ago, mojo said:

Wishing for another variant and more death. Classy.

No, not really...just venting my frustration at those who willfully endanger the safety and well being of others.

[The Evil Genius]

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

I dunno how I feel about forcing businesses to do the work of punishing anti-vaccers. If anything, why not make vaccines mandatory, enforced by the government and not through businesses? I'd support it, and both would probably be challenged in court anyway.

 

Also, why not a government paid bonus for getting fully vaccinated, like a $1000 check? It's paid a lot more for people being put out of work by Covid. Putting Covid at a much less dangerous infection rate would likely save the government money in the long run.

 

Fwiw OSHA was created to protect workers. I see this (involving OSHA) as also protecting workers from their asshat fellow workers who won't vax. Workers should not have to fear being infected from their coworkers. 

 

I sadly know of a 52yo person who recently passed despite being fully vaxxed and masked. He worked for the Greenbrier Hotel and his unvaxxed boss attended a meeting in Texas, came back to work, and likely infected him. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by The Evil Genius

[max21]

I usually stay away from vaccine talk, but a guy I work with is so against vaccines he didn’t even vaccinate his newborn. I’m talking measles, mumps, polio whooping cough normal stuff. Yeah I’m glad you think you’re smarter than DECADES of science you ****in idiot. He thinks it causes autism but that’s been defunked many times smh 

[mojo]

9 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

No, not really...just venting my frustration at those who willfully endanger the safety and well being of others.

Then wish death on all the assholes driving down the road at 70 mph staring at their cellphone.  That’s about a million times more dangerous then someone refusing to get a shot that doesn’t work.

[skinsmarydu]

6 minutes ago, mojo said:

Then wish death on all the assholes driving down the road at 70 mph staring at their cellphone.  That’s about a million times more dangerous then someone refusing to get a shot that doesn’t work.

×than×

 

And unless or until you're the Director of the CDC (where I'm about 8 miles from), STFU.  

Literally.  Go ahead, bounce your knowledge off of the wall.  I hope it smacks you squarely in the face. 

Ever had a broken nose? 

[GhostofSparta]

3 hours ago, max21 said:

He thinks it causes autism but that’s been defunked many times smh 

Andrew Wakefield needs to go down as one of history's greatest monsters. The amount of blood on his hands because he lied so he could make money off his own version of the MMR vaccine is unfathomable.

[The 12th Commandment]

2 hours ago, mojo said:

Then wish death on all the assholes driving down the road at 70 mph staring at their cellphone.  That’s about a million times more dangerous then someone refusing to get a shot that doesn’t work.

The proof that the vaccine works is overwhelming and incontrovertible.  That claim is far more heinous and damaging than an off the cuff reference to idiots having to lie in the bed they themselves made.

[TradeTheBeal!]

5 minutes ago, KAOSkins said:

The proof that the vaccine works is overwhelming and incontrovertible.  That claim is far more heinous and damaging than an off the cuff reference to idiots having to lie in the bed they themselves made.

They seem to work pretty well in Denmark.

 

 

 

[steve09ru]

11 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Fwiw OSHA was created to protect workers. I see this (involving OSHA) as also protecting workers from their asshat fellow workers who won't vax. Workers should not have to fear being infected from their coworkers. 

 

I sadly know of a 52yo person who recently passed despite being fully vaxxed and masked. He worked for the Greenbrier Hotel and his unvaxxed boss attended a meeting in Texas, came back to work, and likely infected him. 

Sorry for your loss.  On the flip side though, unfortunately, it’s not just the unvaxxed that are transmitting so very well could have been someone who was vaxxed as well.

[skinsmarydu]

And let's not forget that Danish citizens pay roughly 60% in taxes and get almost everything that they pay for.  Health & welfare are EVERYONE'S concern.  

What a novel idea. 

[No Excuses]

12 hours ago, mojo said:

Totally agree.  With all money that’s spent over the last 17 months, pay the people if it’s really such a priority.  Don’t put all the pressure on the working class.

 

The unvaccinated minority is the biggest danger to the livelihoods of the working class by keeping caseloads high, straining community resources and slowing the economic recovery.

 

We should be honest about what's happening right now. A small % of the population has a bogus concept of freedom which states that society has to sit back and tolerate their ignorance, while they overwhelm public health resources and sabotage basic social functioning.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by No Excuses

[skinsmarydu]

15 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

The unvaccinated minority is the biggest danger to the livelihoods of the working class by keeping caseloads high, straining community resources and slowing the economic recovery.

 

We should be honest about what's happening right now. A small % of the population has a bogus concept of freedom which states that society has to sit back and tolerate their ignorance, while they overwhelm public health resources and sabotage basic social functioning.

 

In other words, The Revelation of John. 

[Riggo-toni]

 

3 hours ago, mojo said:

Then wish death on all the assholes driving down the road at 70 mph staring at their cellphone.  That’s about a million times more dangerous then someone refusing to get a shot that doesn’t work.

Despite my oversized ego, even I realize I am not God, and therefore lack the ability to inflict death by force of my will.  Even after decades of Jedi training, I can't so much as get a rock to move without picking it up.  

 

Thanks to Cheeto Mussolini expediting the approval process and Uncle Joe pushing effective distribution channels, the US began with a huge head start compared to other countries in vaccinations, and Moderna has proven to be the most efficacious of all...and now we have fallen behind and are considered a high risk area because inbreds who would have lined up around the block to get a shot if pumpkinhead had been re-elected now consider it unpatriotic cuz it might help the Biden economy. 

 

99% of Covid deaths in the US are now the unvaccinated, but we have had to throw out 15 million doses while poor countries are begging for vaccines.

[skinsmarydu]

9 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

 

 

 

99% of Covid deaths in the US are now the unvaccinated, but we have had to throw out 15 million doses while poor countries are begging for vaccines.

I know, this is the most ridiculous **** of my life (the Iraq war notwithstanding).

[Jabbyrwock]

12 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Even after decades of Jedi training, I can't so much as get a rock to move 

 

12 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

even I realize I am not God

[steve09ru]

21 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

 

Despite my oversized ego, even I realize I am not God, and therefore lack the ability to inflict death by force of my will.  Even after decades of Jedi training, I can't so much as get a rock to move without picking it up.  

 

Thanks to Cheeto Mussolini expediting the approval process and Uncle Joe pushing effective distribution channels, the US began with a huge head start compared to other countries in vaccinations, and Moderna has proven to be the most efficacious of all...and now we have fallen behind and are considered a high risk area because inbreds who would have lined up around the block to get a shot if pumpkinhead had been re-elected now consider it unpatriotic cuz it might help the Biden economy. 

 

99% of Covid deaths in the US are now the unvaccinated, but we have had to throw out 15 million doses while poor countries are begging for vaccines.

I dont think it’s necessarily a rebublican vs democrat thing because you have underwhelming participation across Hispanics and blacks as well.  You also had democratic leaders not long ago saying they wouldn’t trust the vaccine or government to make these decisions and flipped the tune in January.  This can’t help if trust is trying to be gained and you are looking for leadership and guidance.
 

the thing people across all spectrums do end up saying is the total lack of trust in the government.  At least that’s what I’ve seen the common theme be regardless of political platform.

 

found this as well and thought it was interesting.  Pretty comparable between conservatives and liberals when it comes to negative feelings about vaccines (specifically childhood) (from 2018 with multiple polls across a number of different orgs).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.precisionvaccinations.com/childhood-vaccination-programs-should-be-exempt-political-bias%3famp

 

 

 I think our issue came when we relaxed mask guidance regardless of vaccination status as we have seen it’s still transmittable and can be mutated (not as severe for vaxxed).

Edited September 11, 2021 by steve09ru

[skinsmarydu]

1 minute ago, steve09ru said:

I dont think it’s necessarily a rebublican vs democrat thing because you have underwhelming participation across Hispanics and blacks as well.  You also had democratic leaders not long ago saying they wouldn’t trust the vaccine or government to make these decisions and flipped the tune in January.  This can’t help if trust is trying to be gained and you are looking for leadership and guidance.
 

the thing people across all spectrums do end up saying is the total lack of trust in the government.  At least that’s what I’ve seen the common theme be regardless of political platform.

And some R leaders are saying "Trust your doctor".  And the doctor says, "Get a vaccine."  And the patient goes all haywire.  Rinse, repeat. 

[steve09ru]

17 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

And some R leaders are saying "Trust your doctor".  And the doctor says, "Get a vaccine."  And the patient goes all haywire.  Rinse, repeat. 

I think we need better guidance on antibodies as well.  I’d be curious to know how many of the 80 million or so have strong antibodies.  Sanjay Gupta was talking with Cooper and Fauci and mentioned those previously who have had covid or have antibodies likely have a higher response rate than vaccinated from Fauci didn’t really say a whole lot to it and said he’d have to look into it more.

 

I think that is also causing some resistance for folks as well who have either tested for antibodies or have previously had covid and have those antibodies.  
 

so at that point, break it down and you have roughly 10% (previous polling) who are likely in the antivaxxer, then the remaining 15-18% are trust issue and antibodies

Edited September 11, 2021 by steve09ru

[The Evil Genius]

Please stop giving the troll attention. Without it, they go away. 

 

 

54 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

I think we need better guidance on antibodies as well.  I’d be curious to know how many of the 80 million or so have strong antibodies.  Sanjay Gupta was talking with Cooper and Fauci and mentioned those previously who have had covid or have antibodies likely have a higher response rate than vaccinated from Fauci didn’t really say a whole lot to it and said he’d have to look into it more.

 

I think that is also causing some resistance for folks as well who have either tested for antibodies or have previously had covid and have those antibodies.  
 

so at that point, break it down and you have roughly 10% (previous polling) who are likely in the antivaxxer, then the remaining 15-18% are trust issue and antibodies

 

My understanding was that vaccination produces greater amounts of antibodies than natural infection. I suspect a medical professional can confirm here..or correct me. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by The Evil Genius

[goskins10]

5 hours ago, mojo said:

Then wish death on all the assholes driving down the road at 70 mph staring at their cellphone.  That’s about a million times more dangerous then someone refusing to get a shot that doesn’t work.

 

Please provide proof of this. Let me help you - you cannot. The shot works the way it's intended. And before we go there it's not new. Work started on this vaccine with SARS. Is it 100%? No, nothing is. But the more people that are vaccinated the less opportunity there is for the virus. There are literally mountains of factual data showing the vaccines efficacy. Again, no one is saying it is 100%. As for serious side effects - since that is where this typically goes next - based on VAERS - that will accept any report from anyone, doctor or individual and then will research, between Dec 20, 2019 and July 26th 2021 there were 6340 deaths reported of people who had the vaccine. This does not mean all died from the vaccine. The CDC requires doctors to report to VAERS if someone dies after the getting the vaccine regardless of cause of death. But let's say they all died from it. That would be approximately 12,000 deaths out of literally 100,000,000s of vaccine doses. 

 

Meanwhile - Covid statistics for 2020 - 40,900,000 cases, with 659,000 dead, vs 12,000, almost none have been verified as due to the vaccine. The deaths were becasue the vaccine did not work for that person. But not working for 0.008% (based on approximately 150,000,000 doses given), vs the actual millions who died from Covid or got seriously ill, seems like it makes sense to get the shot. 

 

 

And the first part of your comment is also false. Below are real traffic statistics. The latest complete data shows 36,096 fatalities on US roads in 2019 down 739 from 2018, likely a result of less drivers due to Covid restrictions. I would expect 2020 to be even less while 2021 will go back up again. 

 

Below that are the distracted driver deaths for 2018 (the latest complete data from NHTSA) - 2841 (with approximately 400,000 injuries) - down from 3242 in 2017 and lower than the peak in 2015.  Below that are deaths due to texting and driving - 401 in 2017, down from 453 in 2016. 

 

Meanwhile - Covid statistics for 2020 - 

40,900,000 Covid cases - we can say vs approximately 400,00 injuries due to distracted drivers

659,000 dead from Covid - vs an average of roughly 35,000/yr for distracted driving and all of 450 (rounding up) due to the texting and driving you referred to as "a millions times more dangerous". 

 

So, if you are going to make an analogy please get the numbers straight. We all exaggerate sometimes but this was gross exaggeration that boils down to misinformation that quite frankly could be deadly if someone were to believe what you wrote. Please be more responsible. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, steve09ru said:

I think we need better guidance on antibodies as well.  I’d be curious to know how many of the 80 million or so have strong antibodies.  Sanjay Gupta was talking with Cooper and Fauci and mentioned those previously who have had covid or have antibodies likely have a higher response rate than vaccinated from Fauci didn’t really say a whole lot to it and said he’d have to look into it more.

 

I think that is also causing some resistance for folks as well who have either tested for antibodies or have previously had covid and have those antibodies.  
 

so at that point, break it down and you have roughly 10% (previous polling) who are likely in the antivaxxer, then the remaining 15-18% are trust issue and antibodies

From an article in the other thread:

 

Over the past several months, a series of studies has found that some people mount an extraordinarily powerful immune response against SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes the disease COVID-19. Their bodies produce very high levels of antibodies, but they also make antibodies with great flexibility — likely capable of fighting off the coronavirus variants circulating in the world but also likely effective against variants that may emerge in the future.

 

"One could reasonably predict that these people will be quite well protected against most — and perhaps all of — the SARS-CoV-2 variants that we are likely to see in the foreseeable future," says Paul Bieniasz, a virologist at Rockefeller University who helped lead several of the studies.

 

In a study published online last month, Bieniasz and his colleagues found antibodies in these individuals that can strongly neutralize the six variants of concern tested, including delta and beta, as well as several other viruses related to SARS-CoV-2, including one in bats, two in pangolins and the one that caused the first coronavirus pandemic, SARS-CoV-1.

 

"This is being a bit more speculative, but I would also suspect that they would have some degree of protection against the SARS-like viruses that have yet to infect humans," Bieniasz says.

So who is capable of mounting this "superhuman" or "hybrid" immune response?

 

People who have had a "hybrid" exposure to the virus. Specifically, they were infected with the coronavirus in 2020 and then immunized with mRNA vaccines this year.

[steve09ru]

3 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

My understanding was that vaccination produces greater amounts of antibodies than natural infection. I suspect a medical professional can confirm here..or correct me. 

Here’s what I was referring to:

so I think we need to understand durability more post infection which it doesn’t sound like is known at this point based on the above