The Vaccine Thread

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Little case study in COVID spread. My mother in law’s 10yr old became symptomatic and tested positive on 9/14. She (vaccinated) and her husband (not vaccinated) isolated in their own house and kept their son in his room throughout the quarantine period. They went to the doctor and got his tested on 9/24. She got a test too, both came back negative.
 

Since my mother in law watches our kids and she didn’t get a more reliable PCR test on Friday, we asked her to get a PCR test before returning. She tested 9/27, 13 days after her son became symptomatic, and it came back positive. She is asymptomatic at this point, but we’re worried about her husband again since they ceased isolation once their negative tests came back on Friday. 
 

 

 

This is the **** that I try to convey to anti-vaxxers...that their decisions don't just stop at them. Hope your kids are ok.

[TheGoodBits]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

This is the **** that I try to convey to anti-vaxxers...that their decisions don't just stop at them. Hope your kids are ok.

My kids are good. Mother in law has not been here since her son tested positive over two weeks ago. However it was literally just us being hard asses and making her get a PCR test that prevented exposure. Had she come back on Monday after her negative (non-PCR) test from Friday, the kids probably would have contracted it. 

[The Evil Genius]

The only research needed was figuring out where to get the shot(s). Unless you have a super rare health concern, get the ****ing shots. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by The Evil Genius

[Renegade7]

 

[Llevron]

Yea. Good luck with that religious exemption if you are catholic now lol

[Sticksboi05]

Important note on testing at this stage of the pandemic.

 

TLDR: The past year has been overflowing with fixation on PCR tests and stories about how it's the better test / more accurate. However, PCR is not designed to answer the question that we want to know when we get tested: "Am I contagious right now?" It detects viral RNA in your nose, but that does not mean it is infectious virus or that the viral load is high enough to transmit. You can test positive well after recovery.

 

Rapid tests are better for determining if you can transmit SARS COV 2 so take advantage of them. They are available at CVS, Walgreen's though it is shameful how expensive they are when in the UK you can get them for Free 99. If we normalized having to take an immediate rapid test to go to places vs. providing a PCR negative test that was received within the past 48 hours, we'd be so much better off.

 

 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Yea. Good luck with that religious exemption if you are catholic now lol

 

Yep, LDS is declining to help with exemptions as well, late but welcome:

 

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/10/lds-church-wont-help/

 

Quote

Latter-day Saint leaders in California have been told not to sign “religious exemption” forms for anti-vax members who want to dodge vaccination mandates by citing their faith.

 

The issue has arisen in that state because it now requires vaccines for health care workers, teachers and others.

 

Some members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have asked their lay bishops to support their applications to receive religious waivers from their employers.

 

“No church official can sign any kind of document supporting the notion that church doctrine/teaching is opposed to vaccination or that the church is opposed to vaccination mandates,” reads a letter sent to all bishops and stake (regional) presidents from the faith’s Area Presidency. “As to the former, the opposite is true [the church not only supports but also encourages vaccination]; as to the latter, the Brethren [top officials] have not taken a position.”

 

In some instances, the letter adds, “signing such documents could even be perjury.”

 

[The Evil Genius]

 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Sticksboi05 said:

You can test positive well after recovery.

Yes. This has been known. My wife has staff testing positive months after recovering. 

[Renegade7]

 

[tshile]

As for the anti-vaxxers

 

i wouldn’t have nearly as much of a problem with them if they were otherwise taking all the proper precautions. 
 

however, from what I’ve seen, anti-cancers tend to not wear masks, not social distance, be against other people wearing masks (like in schools, or in stores, etc), and tend to attend large gatherings (concerts/festivals, sporting events, large family gatherings)

 

In their rush to cry their rights and paint themselves as a victim, they completely forget/gloss over that that real issue is that they won’t follow any of the guidance. 
 

what I’ve also found funny… and maybe I’m a bad person, but I do not give a **** anymore… I’ve become incredibly hostile towards anti-vaxxers. They think everyone wants to hear what they think, so I take the opportunity to let them know what I think. And say some things that are really harsh. It’s ruined a few relationships but I’m ok with that. But they get real, real mad when they realize you’d prefer they die than continue to **** up life for the rest of us. And thing is… that’s exactly what their stance is. They’d prefer other people die, and have ****ed up lives, so they can go on about some absurd notion of rights and a complete ****ization of science. After months of it, they have the audacity to get upset when the favor is returned. 
 

our lives get better when the % of unvaccinated plummets. Get the shot. Die. I don’t care anymore. Choose your own adventure, but make it a quick adventure please. 

[PleaseBlitz]

8 minutes ago, tshile said:

what I’ve also found funny… and maybe I’m a bad person, but I do not give a **** anymore… I’ve become incredibly hostile towards anti-vaxxers. They think everyone wants to hear what they think, so I take the opportunity to let them know what I think. And say some things that are really harsh. It’s ruined a few relationships but I’m ok with that. But they get real, real mad when they realize you’d prefer they die than continue to **** up life for the rest of us. And thing is… that’s exactly what their stance is. They’d prefer other people die, and have ****ed up lives, so they can go on about some absurd notion of rights and a complete ****ization of science. After months of it, they have the audacity to get upset when the favor is returned.

Same. If it’s a relationship I value, I couch my remarks as jokes at their expense. Otherwise, exactly the same as you. They are choosin to put themselves at risk of death and perpetuating the pain for the rest of us (for extremely stupid and selfish reasons). So plz go ahead and die already so the rest of us can move on. 

[Sticksboi05]

Pssst...breakthrough infections are normal with pretty much every vaccine, pass it on.

 

 

[Ball Security]

14 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

Pssst...breakthrough infections are normal with pretty much every vaccine, pass it on.

 

 

Obviously there are going to be break through cases.  However, anecdotally, it seems like there are so many with this.  It just seems strange that my daughter’s teacher last year and her teacher this year both had breakthrough cases.  
 

Earlier this summer, the Nats had six breakthrough cases for a team that travels with around 40-50 people.  
 

That all just seems like a lot.

 

Is there a good breakdown of how these breakthrough cases occur?  As in, are certain behaviors/activities more conducive for a vaccinated person to get it than a non-vaccinated person.
 

 

[Long n Left]

6 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Obviously there are going to be break through cases.  However, anecdotally, it seems like there are so many with this.  It just seems strange that my daughter’s teacher last year and her teacher this year both had breakthrough cases.  
 

Earlier this summer, the Nats had six breakthrough cases for a team that travels with around 40-50 people.  
 

That all just seems like a lot.

 

Is there a good breakdown of how these breakthrough cases occur?  As in, are certain behaviors/activities more conducive for a vaccinated person to get it than a non-vaccinated person.
 

 

I would surmise that the large number of breakthrough cases are a direct function of the large number of anti-vaccine asshats.

[tshile]

And again - it not just being anti-vaccine. 
 

it’s anti-all-precautions 

 

 

[TheGoodBits]

3 hours ago, Sticksboi05 said:

Important note on testing at this stage of the pandemic.

 

TLDR: The past year has been overflowing with fixation on PCR tests and stories about how it's the better test / more accurate. However, PCR is not designed to answer the question that we want to know when we get tested: "Am I contagious right now?" It detects viral RNA in your nose, but that does not mean it is infectious virus or that the viral load is high enough to transmit. You can test positive well after recovery.

 

Rapid tests are better for determining if you can transmit SARS COV 2 so take advantage of them. They are available at CVS, Walgreen's though it is shameful how expensive they are when in the UK you can get them for Free 99. If we normalized having to take an immediate rapid test to go to places vs. providing a PCR negative test that was received within the past 48 hours, we'd be so much better off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, tshile said:

Yes. This has been known. My wife has staff testing positive months after recovering. 

These were helpful posts. Thanks guys. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Same. If it’s a relationship I value, I couch my remarks as jokes at their expense. Otherwise, exactly the same as you. They are choosin to put themselves at risk of death and perpetuating the pain for the rest of us (for extremely stupid and selfish reasons). So plz go ahead and die already so the rest of us can move on. 

 

Most of them are conservatives/Trump Humpers...so...

 

[Larry]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

And again - it not just being anti-vaccine. 
 

it’s anti-all-precautions 

 

 

Yeah. Actively fighting against every attempt at preventing spread sure isn't helping. I get the impression that we were closing businesses and quarantining people and masking and hand washing a lot more, back when the infection and death rates were a tenth what they are now. 
 

The anti-vaxers are a big problem. But dismantling all infection controls when the disease is still spreading is feeding it a lot, too. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

And again - it not just being anti-vaccine. 
 

it’s anti-all-precautions 

 

 

This.

 

I can understand why some people won’t get the vaccine.  I don’t agree with it but there is plenty of vaccine fear being peddled out there and It’s obviously effective.  
 

But the whole won’t wear a mask, social distance, wants everything wide open, no restrictions on anything folks are just Aholes, plain and simple.

 

To them it has zero to do with any concern about the safety of the vaccine and everything to do with being a selfish, ignorant POS.
 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[tshile]

12 minutes ago, Larry said:

Yeah. Actively fighting against every attempt at preventing spread sure isn't helping. I get the impression that we were closing businesses and quarantining people and masking and hand washing a lot more, back when the infection and death rates were a tenth what they are now. 
 

The anti-vaxers are a big problem. But dismantling all infection controls when the disease is still spreading is feeding it a lot, too. 

honestly, I would think now that 72% of the (eligible) population is vaccinated, we don’t need to close businesses. Wearing masks and basic respect for space and basic hygiene would likely be enough. 
 

elementary schools in my area have 2 years of holding classes at different phases. None of them are vaccinated. There’s one common denominator through both years so far. When there’s no mask mandate the infections spiral out of control. When there is a mask mandate there’s nothing in schools and the few infections they have are linked to community spread. 
 

(my opinion but I’m not qualified in the field so… whatever 😂)

Also hospitals have kept infections of their staff to a minimum with basic mask wearing. 
 

sure they get suited up to deal with a covid patient. 
 

but otherwise they just wear a mask and practice basic hygiene. 
 

And stay home when they’re sick or someone in their household is sick. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by tshile

[tshile]

23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I can understand why some people won’t get the vaccine

I can too. 
 

I don’t get mad at a person who won’t get the vaccine but will wear a mask and practice the basics. hell, I’m not crazy about it. 
 

but most of these people aren’t anti-vaxers. They’re anti-society. Anti-government. Anti-social contract. 
 

most of this is just petulance and angst. It’s ignorance and some pathetic sense of rebellion or independence. 
 

they’re not taking ivermectin because they researched everything and decided it makes the most sense. If they accidentally stumbled upon a research paper one day they wouldn’t be able to get through the opening abstract. They’re not smart enough to read, much less understand and evaluate, research papers. They’ve got no experience in any of it. 
 

They’re taking it because it’s one of many ways they’ve found to buck society. 
 

they’re playing a childish game and people are dying from it. They’re are awful people. They actively make their country a worse place. They are utterly selfish and have no regard for the well being of others. 
 

and they’re as ignorant as it gets. 
 

the quicker they go away the better. Every day they do damage. And they’re never going to change. Their just pathetic pieces of **** that couldn’t pull their heads out of their asses when it got important 

Edited September 30, 2021 by tshile

[Sticksboi05]

2 hours ago, Ball Security said:

Obviously there are going to be break through cases.  However, anecdotally, it seems like there are so many with this.  It just seems strange that my daughter’s teacher last year and her teacher this year both had breakthrough cases.  
 

Earlier this summer, the Nats had six breakthrough cases for a team that travels with around 40-50 people.  
 

That all just seems like a lot.

 

Is there a good breakdown of how these breakthrough cases occur?  As in, are certain behaviors/activities more conducive for a vaccinated person to get it than a non-vaccinated person.
 

 

 

This is a respiratory virus - vaccines that aren't nasal sprays aren't going to stop people from testing positive on PCR in many cases. The goal of the vaccines has always been to stop symptomatic illness. If someone tests PCR positive with zero symptoms, the job was done. This isn't to say this is always the case - many people are testing negative because the vaccinated immune system indeed suppressed the infectious dose so potently. The vaccines stop the virus from spreading beyond your airways into your lungs and the rest of your body where it can wreak havoc but it's not a magic force field that bounces virus off of you. COVID-19 is the disease caused by SARS-COV-2, if you test positive with zero symptoms, you are not in a disease state and therefore really don't have COVID-19, which is the point of the vaccines first and foremost.

 

The other issue is half the country isn't vaccinated and natural immunity, which can have some advantages, is also less consistent. A vaccine that is not sterilizing isn't going to eliminate a disease by itself if so many people won't take it. Polio it didn't matter because everyone lined up and ate their sugar cube.

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

This is a respiratory virus - vaccines that aren't nasal sprays aren't going to stop people from testing positive on PCR in many cases. The goal of the vaccines has always been to stop symptomatic illness. If someone tests PCR positive with zero symptoms, the job was done. This isn't to say this is always the case - many people are testing negative because the vaccinated immune system indeed suppressed the infectious dose so potently. The vaccines stop the virus from spreading beyond your airways into your lungs and the rest of your body where it can wreak havoc but it's not a magic force field that bounces virus off of you. COVID-19 is the disease caused by SARS-COV-2, if you test positive with zero symptoms, you are not in a disease state and therefore really don't have COVID-19, which is the point of the vaccines first and foremost.

 

The other issue is half the country isn't vaccinated and natural immunity, which can have some advantages, is also less consistent. A vaccine that is not sterilizing isn't going to eliminate a disease by itself if so many people won't take it. Polio it didn't matter because everyone lined up and ate their sugar cube.

I think I understand all that, but why do I know a lot of people who are fully vaccinated and are symptomatic?  The Nationals example speaks to what you are saying because the only way those six guys tested positive is because a non-vaxed Trea Turner tested positive and the other guys were close contacts but were asymptomatic.  My nephew got it his first month away at college, but he too was asymptomatic.  But, on the other hand, I know of a half dozen people who got it and the reason they got tested was because they had symptoms.  They ranged from mild to severe.  Maybe that’s not a lot, but I don’t have a wide circle and am not actively in touch with a lot of people.  
 

Is there good research on breakthrough cases that are symptomatic versus non symptomatic?

 

Also, you say if you’re not symptomatic, then you are not in a disease state.  You can still spread it though, right?

 

Let me be clear, I am absolutely pro-vaccine.  If one doesn’t get one and has the ability to, then they are a moron.  I just feel like I’m coming across more symptomatic cases of vaccinated people than I would expect.  I have two unvaccinated children at home and want to make sure I understand the risks and modify my behavior accordingly.

[Sticksboi05]

12 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I think I understand all that, but why do I know a lot of people who are fully vaccinated and are symptomatic?  The Nationals example speaks to what you are saying because the only way those six guys tested positive is because a non-vaxed Trea Turner tested positive and the other guys were close contacts but were asymptomatic.  My nephew got it his first month away at college, but he too was asymptomatic.  But, on the other hand, I know of a half dozen people who got it and the reason they got tested was because they had symptoms.  They ranged from mild to severe.  Maybe that’s not a lot, but I don’t have a wide circle and am not actively in touch with a lot of people.  
 

Is there good research on breakthrough cases that are symptomatic versus non symptomatic?

 

Also, you say if you’re not symptomatic, then you are not in a disease state.  You can still spread it though, right?

 

Let me be clear, I am absolutely pro-vaccine.  If one doesn’t get one and has the ability to, then they are a moron.  I just feel like I’m coming across more symptomatic cases of vaccinated people than I would expect.  I have two unvaccinated children at home and want to make sure I understand the risks and modify my behavior accordingly.

 

I know many athletes opted for JnJ to only get one shot - it is not as protective against symptomatic illness as the mRNA vaccines or two-dose AstraZeneca.

 

Yes you can spread it asymptomatic but vaccinated people even who are positive, are less likely to transmit. Less competent virus for less time vs. unvaccinated. If you're asymptomatic and testing negative repeatedly on rapid tests, odds are you cannot transmit even if you are PCR positive.

 

Another issue - the vaccines were developed against the original SARS-COV-2, which basically doesn't exist anymore, we're in a Delta world now. Delta is significantly better at evading antibody responses, which is why it's causing more illness. Antibodies prevent symptoms as the first line of defense, whereas cells like T-cells jump in to prevent severe illness later on. There are actually immunologists who now think the vaccines really might be three-dose vaccines vs. two, and it's possible no further boosters would be needed. Time will tell and tons of factors. There are other vaccines that have required more than two doses.

 

As for data, this is a great Twitter account to follow, as is this one.