The Vaccine Thread

[Jumbo]

3 hours ago, mojo said:

So a joke about yard signs gets a suspension.  I wonder if the several posts in this thread joking and wishing death on the unvaccinated got anybody suspended l?

 

 

you wonder like you posted in here recently---there's an air of cluelessness that permeates

 

fyi-- this post violates another rule (techboy's observation that you've been here since 2002 reminds you should also know the rules by now) 

 

Quote

 if you have a disagreement with an action regarding your account, you may either PM a moderator or you can email us at staff@extremeskins.com. Please be patient waiting for a reply. Members should use the Feedback Forum for any general comments you may have regarding board management on any matter. Do not engage in "hijacking" a thread by commenting on such matters in off-topic fashion within a thread.

  

since you're a long-timer i normally wouldn't give you another week off after the one you just did, but your fatuous inference that some targeted injustice has been visited upon you--the new ethics and morals czar for the mod staff as you may see yourself--is just garden-variety self-immolation and kinda makes a ban automatic

 

however, just to surprise tb, one of the bestest es'ers of all times (tho i've been a disappointment to him, and countless others no doubt), i won't ban you for another week, nor will tk put you in the 'banned from the tailgate' group

 

i suggest there be no next time tho  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

So, now that they have decided to shelf the boosters for the time being, I am going back to wearing masks in public along with my workers… plus is the cold season anyway.

 

But, do you think they are not doing boosters mainly because they aren’t needed or because they want to get more of the world vaccinated to try to prevent new variants from creeping up and making the current vaccines ineffective?

Edited September 24, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[NoCalMike]

I am a little confused on the boosters thing.  So the 2-jab vaccine offers protection that wanes at about 8-12 months?  Not wanes to dangerously low levels, but it does wane, yes?  And the booster would essentially up the protection either back up to peak protection level or even higher than the original 2 jabs did?  So what is the issue with it?   

 

Is it because the medical professionals feel even the waning protection from the original 2 jabs is still sufficient to ward off serious illness (for now) or is this more about making sure the rest of the world attempts to get up to speed with vaccines given out first?

[PleaseBlitz]

6 hours ago, mojo said:

So a joke about yard signs gets a suspension.  I wonder if the several posts in this thread joking and wishing death on the unvaccinated got anybody suspended l?

Those aren’t jokes.

Edited September 24, 2021 by PleaseBlitz

[Sticksboi05]

54 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I am a little confused on the boosters thing.  So the 2-jab vaccine offers protection that wanes at about 8-12 months?  Not wanes to dangerously low levels, but it does wane, yes?  And the booster would essentially up the protection either back up to peak protection level or even higher than the original 2 jabs did?  So what is the issue with it?   

 

Is it because the medical professionals feel even the waning protection from the original 2 jabs is still sufficient to ward off serious illness (for now) or is this more about making sure the rest of the world attempts to get up to speed with vaccines given out first?

 

mRNA vaccines spaced at 3-4 weeks, more so with Pfizer, show waning protection, largely against infection but severe disease and hospitalization preserved. Israel's data is an outlier - other countries show nowhere near the efficacy reduction Israel does. A booster will most likely increase protection vs. infection for a short period of time. For older people or immune compromised a booster makes total sense given Delta.

 

The issue is at the end of the day the vaccines are here to keep people out of the hospital, and prevent symptomatic illness. There is nothing to suggest they don't still do that for the general public. For at risk groups, the story is different. It still protects but at a lesser level. COVID won't ever end if the world isn't vaccinated, and considering vaccine makers missed basically all their stated manufacturing marks - giving rich nations boosters while half the world waits for first doses seems questionable.

[Cooked Crack]

Quote

In a rare move, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky late Thursday overruled her agency’s advisory panel and added a recommendation for boosters for people whose jobs put them at risk of infection.

 

The advisory panel had made a recommendation that largely mirrored an authorization issued a day earlier by the Food and Drug Administration, with a call for a third shot of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for people 65 and older, nursing home residents and people 50 to 64 with underlying medical conditions six months after completing their second shot.

 

The panel also said younger people, 18 to 49 years old with underlying medical conditions, may assess their own risk and choose to get a booster if they want one.

The CDC panel parted with the FDA on a pivotal issue: It declined to recommend a booster for people at risk of illness because of their job.

 

[just654]

Any news on Moderna? All I can find is on Pfizer

[Cooked Crack]

9 minutes ago, just654 said:

Any news on Moderna? All I can find is on Pfizer

Just Pfizer for now. Moderna was like 2 weeks behind in submitting their data. I assume they'll probably get approval sometime in October

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Whose jobs put them at risk? That’s a lot of people, I would think.

Edited September 24, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[PleaseBlitz]

Newly minted lawyer challenges COVID restrictions in 'impenetrable thicket' of arguments

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/newly-minted-lawyer-challenges-covid-restrictions-in-series-of-lawsuits-one-judge-called-filings-an-impenetrable-thicket

 

Comments in brackets added by me. 

 

Quote

Ohio lawyer Thomas Renz quickly gained prominence in conservative circles by challenging COVID-19 mandates in a series of lawsuits filed after he passed the bar exam in November 2019 on his fifth try. []

Renz leads federal lawsuits in six states challenging COVID-19 shutdowns, mask mandates and vaccine requirements, the Washington Post reports. The states are Alabama, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico and Ohio.

 

Renz explained why he is handling COVID-19 litigation in an email to the Post. “I sincerely wish that the big firms would step up but they have not so it is left to nobodies like me,” he said.

 

Renz appears to have little previous litigation experience, according to a search of Ohio cases by the Post.

 

In one case he defended a man charged with DUI and in another he defended a man charged with aggravated menacing. The Post notes that there would be no legal records in any nonpublic cases handled by Renz, such as those involving juveniles.

 

In Ohio federal court, Renz filed three lawsuits related to the pandemic. One was withdrawn in March after U.S. District Judge James Carr asked Renz to show cause why it shouldn’t be dismissed.

 

Carr said the first complaint filed by Renz and his co-counsel was “well-nigh incomprehensible.” The judge said an amended complaint was “an impenetrable thicket of often conclusory and speculative assertions, allegations, contentions, innuendo, and legal arguments and citations.” [Judge-speak for "what the **** is this?]

 

The complaint is “neither short nor plain,” Carr concluded, citing federal lawsuit requirements. Renz told the Post he disagreed with the judge’s assessment.

 

Renz and his co-counsel also withdrew a second suit against a hospital system in Michigan that challenged its employee vaccine requirement. Other litigation is in its early stages.

Renz has filed affidavits in his Alabama and Michigan lawsuits in which an unnamed whistleblower says the COVID-19 vaccine has caused the deaths of 45,000 people.

 

The whistleblower, a computer programmer, cited information in a database of unverified reports of vaccine reactions, and said she believes the true number of vaccine deaths was five times higher than reported number of about 9,000. [At least one of these was someone who reported, as a joke, that the vaccine made him grow a third arm out of his forehead, just to show that anyone can claim anything on that database.]

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, however, has found no causal link between vaccines and any deaths.

 

Renz has created a nonprofit group called For God Family Country that is collecting money for his litigation. Another group led by a friend who contends the pandemic was a hoax, Make Americans Free Again, is also raising money with a goal of collecting at least $100 million. [Wait a minute, you mean this guy isn't on the up and up?  It's a grift?  SHOCKED!]

 

Renz told the Post, he has been paid about $250,000 for the litigation so far, which has been taking up most of his time. “I am certainly not making much off of this,” he added.

Renz is a law graduate of Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. He grew up in a small town in Ohio where his family owned a bowling alley and an electronics shop.

 

During the period when he was taking the bar exam, he became president of a small credit union and, after that job, worked at a nonprofit that says it wants to counter a “radical Islamic cultural invasion.”

 

Renz left the credit union after two employees accused him of sexual harassment, the Post reports. [MORE SHOCKING NEWS!] He was terminated from the next job, according to the group’s chief operating officer.

 

Renz told the Post the harassment allegations were “flatly untrue.”

 

The Post says Renz’s “quick public ascent illustrates how promoting misinformation about the pandemic can be an effective fundraising tool and lead to renown within the portion of the country that remains suspicious of coronavirus vaccines, despite their general acceptance by the medical and scientific communities.”

 

[goskins10]

23 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Whose jobs it them at risk? That’s a lot of people, I would think.

 

One group that some states - MD for instance - have left out retail workers. I friend of mine is a store manager for Target and she had to wait a long time to get the first shot. And she still as not technically eligible. There is a pharmacy in her store. At the end of one night the had let over doses they were going to throw out so she got hers early. But many others in retail are often left out yet forced to work. 

 

To your point they really need to better define what they mean by "jobs at risk."

[skinsmarydu]

Y'all know me, I thought about the food/bev industry first.  Constant contact with (possibly) unvaccinated and (definitely) unmasked people...seriously? 

[mistertim]

25 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Newly minted lawyer challenges COVID restrictions in 'impenetrable thicket' of arguments

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/newly-minted-lawyer-challenges-covid-restrictions-in-series-of-lawsuits-one-judge-called-filings-an-impenetrable-thicket

 

Comments in brackets added by me. 

 

 

 

I'm certainly not a lawyer, but 5 times sounds like an awful lot. How many lawyers take any more than 2?

[Sticksboi05]

13 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

So, now that they have decided to shelf the boosters for the time being, I am going back to wearing masks in public along with my workers… plus is the cold season anyway.

 

But, do you think they are not doing boosters mainly because they aren’t needed or because they want to get more of the world vaccinated to try to prevent new variants from creeping up and making the current vaccines ineffective?

 

There is not enough safety data, no clinical trials have been done, and the data does not suggest that healthy people under 65 are at major risk of severe outcomes at this point.

[PleaseBlitz]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm certainly not a lawyer, but 5 times sounds like an awful lot. How many lawyers take any more than 2?

 

Not many and none of the good ones. 

[Jabbyrwock]

14 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Not many and none of the good ones. 

 

Hell...ive failed my bar exam more times than I can count.

 

What can I say?...I really enjoy testing

[skinsmarydu]

I have a friend who has failed it 5 times. 

He's a Magat.  *shocked face* 

[Sticksboi05]

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

36 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said:

 

Hell...ive failed my bar exam more times than I can count.

 

When I passed mine and told a friend that I passed the bar, he said something like "well that's the first bar you've ever passed."

[Renegade7]

Resistance is futile

 

 

[TMK9973]

So for boosters -I can tell you 1st hand knowledge its the honor system. You say you need it because of health or at risk job, no one is questioning it.  you will get the booster.

HOWEVER -I urge people to do what has been urged since day 1. Trust the science and the Experts.

 

There is no evidence that most healthy people under 60 need the boosters, and there IS a unknown risk that "overstimulating" the antibodies could end up causing more problems.

 

If you are under 60 and have no other health risk and been fully vaxed, while a booster shot might offer you some increased short term protection against getting covid -in all likely hood all it is doing is reducing the chance you get a mild to asymptomatic case of covid - which may not be worth the unknown.

 

Booster will prob be needed for everyone eventually -I see no reason to rush out and get it before it shows a vailt reason to.

and no -I am no expert. Which is why i will continue to defer to the general consensus of the experts.   

[mistertim]

59 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

I have a friend who has failed it 5 times. 

He's a Magat.  *shocked face* 

 

[zCommander]

23 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

So for boosters -I can tell you 1st hand knowledge its the honor system. You say you need it because of health or at risk job, no one is questioning it.  you will get the booster.

HOWEVER -I urge people to do what has been urged since day 1. Trust the science and the Experts.

 

There is no evidence that most healthy people under 60 need the boosters, and there IS a unknown risk that "overstimulating" the antibodies could end up causing more problems.

 

If you are under 60 and have no other health risk and been fully vaxed, while a booster shot might offer you some increased short term protection against getting covid -in all likely hood all it is doing is reducing the chance you get a mild to asymptomatic case of covid - which may not be worth the unknown.

 

Booster will prob be needed for everyone eventually -I see no reason to rush out and get it before it shows a vailt reason to.

and no -I am no expert. Which is why i will continue to defer to the general consensus of the experts.   

 

See the bolded part. There is no such thing as overstimulating and causing more problems. That is not how antibodies work. Your system produces antibodies to fight an infection. It stays in your system for a long time. How long the covid fighting antibodies stay in your system has not been determined yet. This is where the estimate of 8-12 months figures are coming from.

 

If you get the so called booster shot all it is doing is telling your immune to produce the antibodies for the covid virus just like it did with with the first two shot. Matter of fact it is #2 shot given for the 3rd time. If you already have some antibodies left from shot #1 and #2 then all you are doing is increasing the amount of the same antibodies for more efficient killing if you do get the virus. It is like increasing the amount of buckets of water on hand in case there is a fire instead of having two buckets. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by zskins

[TMK9973]

3 hours ago, zskins said:

 

See the bolded part. There is no such thing as overstimulating and causing more problems. That is not how antibodies work. Your system produces antibodies to fight an infection. It stays in your system for a long time. How long the covid fighting antibodies stay in your system has not been determined yet. This is where the estimate of 8-12 months figures are coming from.

 

If you get the so called booster shot all it is doing is telling your immune to produce the antibodies for the covid virus just like it did with with the first two shot. Matter of fact it is #2 shot given for the 3rd time. If you already have some antibodies left from shot #1 and #2 then all you are doing is increasing the amount of the same antibodies for more efficient killing if you do get the virus. It is like increasing the amount of buckets of water on hand in case there is a fire instead of having two buckets. 

 

 

Well -This isnt exactly true although I may not have used the correct terms.

For instance - Type 1 diabetes is a autoimmune disease where the immune system is over active and attacks the pancreas thinking the insulin is bad.  

That is a extreme but a overactive immune system is a issue.  

Some people may have a overactive immune system and not even know it -but boosters could trigger it (in fact -Most type 1 diabetics i know, including my sister who have asked their Dr if they should get a booster have been told no. Not right now).  

I am not expert -nor do I claim to be. I repeating what I read by some of the FDA experts that voted AGAINST the recommendation.  Im not against boosters either -but unless there is some evidence that people under 60 without high risk factors would benefit- I dont see the rush.

 

And I am strongly pro-vaccine because the science was clear.  

 

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

Well -This isnt exactly true although I may not have used the correct terms.

For instance - Type 1 diabetes is a autoimmune disease where the immune system is over active and attacks the pancreas thinking the insulin is bad.  

That is a extreme but a overactive immune system is a issue.  

Some people may have a overactive immune system and not even know it -but boosters could trigger it (in fact -Most type 1 diabetics i know, including my sister who have asked their Dr if they should get a booster have been told no. Not right now).  

I am not expert -nor do I claim to be. I repeating what I read by some of the FDA experts that voted AGAINST the recommendation.  Im not against boosters either -but unless there is some evidence that people under 60 without high risk factors would benefit- I dont see the rush.

 

And I am strongly pro-vaccine because the science was clear.  

 

 

Autoimmune disease has nothing do with your immune system producing antibodies for an infection. I will try to explain to you how the body's immune system works. The vaccine is a fake virus trigger. It is the same as if you are getting attacked by a real virus. Your immune system will produce the antibodies. Your immune system produces 2000 antibodies per second. Once it finds the the right antibody for the infection it then remember which key worked and then starts mass producing the same key to kill the infection.

 

The vaccine DOES NOT heighten the immune system. Actually it helps in the long run if you do get the real virus. If you got the real virus and you didn't have antibodies for covid in your system your immune system would take longer to produce the antibodies (as it is already overworked or weak)  to kill the virus and by then the virus would have made more damage to your internals organs. In another words, it actually takes your immune system longer to produce the antibodies if you have a weaker immune system. 

 

As for the booster. The reason some are saying don't is because it really hasn't been a year yet. There is no real data of how long the antibodies stay in your system for covid. Now if you do have a weaker immune system because you have an autoimmune disease then the booster actually makes more sense to get. These are the people who should be getting it first along with the elderly as they also have a weaker immune system.