Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

Belichick got the "genius" label with Brady.  Granted he has one good  season with Cassell starting.  But this season has been a disaster for him.  Brady helps Bucs make the playoffs for the first time if I recall since 2007 whereas the Pats are losers.  I got to figure the Pats will be aggressive this off season at QB.  

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

From Keim, some Haskins in ther mix but its relevant as to going forward

 

 

ASHBURN, Va. -- If there was any doubt about the power coach Ron Rivera has in Washington's organization, it was put to rest Monday. He asked team owner Daniel Snyder whether he could release quarterback Dwayne Haskins Jr., a player whom it was well known Snyder liked and had pushed to draft at No. 15 in 2019 (against the wishes of his football people).

 

But for this franchise to take a step forward, Snyder has to listen to the same voice he did Monday morning. Not to mention the scouts who work all year assessing quarterback play, whether in college or the NFL.

 

A major reason Washington hasn't been a consistent winner since the early 1990s remains the quarterback position. If Taylor Heinicke starts Sunday vs. the Philadelphia Eagles (8:20 p.m. ET, NBC), he would become the 31st quarterback to start a game for Washington since 1993.

 

This offseason, Washington must find a quarterback it can build around. The team still has Alex Smith, one of the best comeback stories in a long time and who has been key to their playoff push. But what sort of future does he have as an effective NFL starter? Washington can save $13.6 million against the cap by cutting Smith.

 

When it comes to the next decision on a quarterback, Snyder must trust his football side. He pushed to trade for Donovan McNabb; he pushed to move up to select Robert Griffin III. Sometimes there was pushback; other times there wasn't enough. Snyder signed Jeff George in 2000 after Brad Johnson had delivered one of the best seasons by a Washington quarterback in a decade. None of those moves worked out, though Griffin did deliver one memorable season.

Snyder has a chance to build something positive for a few years. Washington's defensive line could anchor the unit for a while and be among the NFL's best. The team doesn't need to make a splashy move to sell tickets; rookie defensive end Chase Young can be the star to build around. Washington needs a quarterback about whom the football side says, "Yes, we can definitely win with him." Snyder then needs to do what he did Monday: listen.

 

Washington's scouts have spearheaded multiple consecutive good drafts. They know what they're doing; the coaches know what sort of quarterback they want. If the two are allowed to marry their desires, they have a better chance to find their guy.

With Snyder having to deal with court filings and squabbles with his minority owners, this is the best time for Rivera to wield his power.

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington/post/_/id/40869/ron-rivera-cements-his-power-in-washington-by-releasing-dwayne-haskins

[kingdaddy]

Seeing where we save 13 mil against the cap by releasing Alex I gotta believe he retires or we work out some kind of settlement where he's released with a job within the organization. After this Haskins release I am convinced more than ever that we go with a veteran QB to start next season. Ron needs someone reliable in the locker room and off the field that he trusts while he builds the rest of this roster and continues to build the culture. Two guys jump out as free agents, both good enough to win in this division:

Cam Newton and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Kyle Allen is the wild card as I dont know how much RR likes him as a guy we can win with. 

Cam is Ron's guy and vice versa...looking at both of their situations I can easily see a marriage between them again, especially if RR likes Cam as a person and leader. Fitzpatrick is finishing up a tremendous year and, if he keeps playing would be a nice addition to this team as a stopgap guy we can win games with. He will spread the ball around and help the kids develop. He would also be great to groom young guys. 

Neither of these names are gonna make most of you happy but if you really look at it the need for stability, not greatness, at the QB position is paramount for this team next season and there will be 2 cheap options available while we find a younger guy and build the roster across the board. Neither of these guys will cost us a player or draft pick and both are experienced vets who can win games with our defense in this division.

I want the next Joe Burrow too but, as this season proves, we need stability first until we find our future and RR needs a leader at that spot desperately.

 

[mhd24]

8 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Seeing where we save 13 mil against the cap by releasing Alex I gotta believe he retires or we work out some kind of settlement where he's released with a job within the organization. After this Haskins release I am convinced more than ever that we go with a veteran QB to start next season. Ron needs someone reliable in the locker room and off the field that he trusts while he builds the rest of this roster and continues to build the culture. Two guys jump out as free agents, both good enough to win in this division:

Cam Newton and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Kyle Allen is the wild card as I dont know how much RR likes him as a guy we can win with. 

Cam is Ron's guy and vice versa...looking at both of their situations I can easily see a marriage between them again, especially if RR likes Cam as a person and leader. Fitzpatrick is finishing up a tremendous year and, if he keeps playing would be a nice addition to this team as a stopgap guy we can win games with. He will spread the ball around and help the kids develop. He would also be great to groom young guys. 

Neither of these names are gonna make most of you happy but if you really look at it the need for stability, not greatness, at the QB position is paramount for this team next season and there will be 2 cheap options available while we find a younger guy and build the roster across the board. Neither of these guys will cost us a player or draft pick and both are experienced vets who can win games with our defense in this division.

I want the next Joe Burrow too but, as this season proves, we need stability first until we find our future and RR needs a leader at that spot desperately.

 

 

 

Cam is done.  He was horrible last night (early drop on the trick play didn't help obviously).  

[Skinsinparadise]

Russini just on the radio, she thinks they draft a QB and sign a veteran.

 

She thinks ideally for the team they'd land Stafford, defensive players/coaches are always praising him to her.    Then Sheehan chimed in that Stafford would be his preferred choice, too. 

 

Be interesting to see if Stafford hits the market.  Judging by this thread, he'd be as polarizing a get as Alex Smith was as to fans. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I don't hate the idea of Stafford, but isn't he going to be asking for a new contract from wherever he ends up?  A new contract that is likely to be very large.  

 

I realize we have the money, but last I checked there are a lot of WFT fans that are scared beyond belief of spending a lot on a QB.  Particularly one who has lost a lot of games in his career.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't hate the idea of Stafford, but isn't he going to be asking for a new contract from wherever he ends up?  A new contract that is likely to be very large.  

 

I realize we have the money, but last I checked there are a lot of WFT fans that are scared beyond belief of spending a lot on a QB.  Particularly one who has lost a lot of games in his career.

 

Don't know but at a minimum he is under contract right now where the cap hit is 20 million next year and 23 the following year.  Usually contracts are restructured down as opposed to up so in short I think his cap is likely managable in the near term which IMO is key. 

 

Sometimes players get traded for contract reasons but in this case, Stafford isn't demanding a new contract.  But I agree he might get one. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

I like Stafford, I think he's one of the better QBs of the last 20 years. I hope he gets off the Lions and has a great life.

 

I don't want to over pay an old QB and I don't want to throw draft capital away to do it.

 

I want to build a team. A complete team, with good rotation of depth players so we aren't stuck with trying to pay a bunch of high end star contracts.

 

Develop a QB and let them drive a good running machine instead of giving them a broken car and expecting a ride.

[Skinsinparadise]

as its being discussed by Sheehan on 980 right now, I'd hate to squander a top 5 defense where we look back at it years later as a missed opportunity.  

 

If we take some flier at QB and act like our roster is no different now than in years past so the same approach is fine -- I think we are going to regret it and see it as a missed shot at the big dance.  I get you can be the rare outlier and do it without the QB but I hate banking on outliers. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Be interesting to see if Stafford hits the market.  Judging by this thread, he'd be as polarizing a get as Alex Smith was as to fans. 

I don’t think he would, the vast majority would support the move, only issue could be around the cost I think.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I don’t think he would, the vast majority would support the move, only issue could be around the cost I think.

 

judging by talk radio this morning, granted small sample, fans seem more supportive of the move.  I agree he doesn't hit the market but I do think there is enough of a shot that its worth entertaining the idea.  From the Lions perspective, if lets say they love Fields and Wilson, it might be worth trading Stafford to get an extra #1 pick to help trade up.  I don't think it goes down but i also don't think that its wildly far fetched. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

I just don't see Detroit trading him UNLESS they:  

1). in a position to draft Wilson, Fields, or Lance

2). Get a premium return

 

Indy makes far too much sense.  They have a boatload of cap space and Rivers is probably gone this year.  Heck, If Rivers wants to play one more year, I'd take him here.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I just don't see Detroit trading him UNLESS they:  

1). in a position to draft Wilson, Fields, or Lance

2). Get a premium return

 

Indy makes far too much sense.  They have a boatload of cap space and Rivers is probably gone this year.  Heck, If Rivers wants to play one more year, I'd take him here.

 

They are #7 right now so probably in range for Lance.  The Jets are at #2 and there are some reports they keep Darnold and trade the pick.  But even if they don't, the Dolphins likely end up at #3.   Assuming they trade the pick?  Good chance one of those picks will be auctioned.  Right now Atlanta and Detriot have the highest picks matched with potential QB needs.  So wonder if one of them trades up?

Edited December 29, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[max21]

As much as I want Stafford it still seems far fetched, I haven’t read any rumors that he wants to leave Detroit or Detroit wants to part ways with him. It’s just pure speculation 

[mhd24]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They are #7 right now so probably in range for Lance.  The Jets are at #2 and there is some reports they keep Darnold and trade the pick.  But even if they don't, the Dolphins likely end up at #3.   Assuming they trade the pick?  Good chance one of those picks will be auctioned.  Right now Atlanta and Detriot have the highest picks matched with potential QB needs.  So wonder if one of them trades up?

 

 

I think the Jets do take a QB honestly.  Their GM (Joe Douglass) didn't draft Darnold.  I think Wilson is destined to go there.  They still have Seattle's 1st to take BPA (probably another o-lineman or RB) and a ton of cap space.

 

I don't see how Detroit trades up.  That roster is trash (how did we lose to them?).  All of the WRs are FAs, they have no defensive speed AND no cap space.  They can't trade Stafford for a 1st, and then trade that 1st+their own to move up.  Either trade Stafford and hope Lance falls, or get as many picks as you can, tank, and draft the QB next year.  A team isn't going to trade a vet QB w/o a ready replacement.    

 

Right now, I have:

1). Jax-Lawrence

2). Nyj-Wilson

3). Mia-Sewell (could be Fields honestly.  Tua has been pretty bad.  Move Jackson to RT)

4). Atl-Parsons (Atl have NO cap space.  Getting rid of Ryan is impossible.  They need to rebuild)

5). Cin-Chase (Burrow-Chase reunited.  Green is gone this off-season.  Boyd is more of a slot.  Higgins is a big body)

6). Phi-Smith

7). Det-Lance

 

 

 

[heyholetsgogrant]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Belichick got the "genius" label with Brady.  Granted he has one good  season with Cassell starting.  But this season has been a disaster for him.  Brady helps Bucs make the playoffs for the first time if I recall since 2007 whereas the Pats are losers.  I got to figure the Pats will be aggressive this off season at QB.  

 

I still think he’s a decent coach, because coached the Browns to 11 wins 😆.  However, he may go down as one of the most overrated coaches ever. His record without Tom Brady is 51-66.

 

Joe Gibbs >>>>>>> Bill Belichick.

Joe Gibbs 2.0 >>>>>>>> Bill Belichick 

Edited December 29, 2020 by heyholetsgogrant

[Ball Security]

I don’t see Fitzpatrick as an ideal solution for Turner’s offense from my perception.  He’s not mobile anymore.  He turns the ball over a lot.  Maybe, with the defense, they can be comfortable with that.  I love the guy.  Though I think Taylor fits what Turner wants to do better.  
 

I don’t think they need to be great at QB, just professional and competent consistently.

I could see them preserve their draft capital, take a FA like Taylor, Fitz, or Trubisky and take a flier on Newman with one of their 3rds.

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, max21 said:

As much as I want Stafford it still seems far fetched, I haven’t read any rumors that he wants to leave Detroit or Detroit wants to part ways with him. It’s just pure speculation 

 

No rumors that he wants to leave.  Rumors from some who cover the team in Detriot that they might want to rebuild and might trade him for draft capital for that reason.  They currently have 5 picks in the upcoming draft and can likely get a young QB in it.  There is a reason why the national media talks about this here and there.

55 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

I think the Jets do take a QB honestly.  Their GM (Joe Douglass) didn't draft Darnold.  I think Wilson is destined to go there.  They still have Seattle's 1st to take BPA (probably another o-lineman or RB) and a ton of cap space.

 

I got no idea.  But I've read three articles recently about they might not take a QB and would prefer to trade down.  Two of those articles were from people that supposedly know Douglas well or his thinking.  

Edited December 29, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Russini just on the radio, she thinks they draft a QB and sign a veteran.

 

She thinks ideally for the team they'd land Stafford, defensive players/coaches are always praising him to her.    Then Sheehan chimed in that Stafford would be his preferred choice, too. 

 

Be interesting to see if Stafford hits the market.  Judging by this thread, he'd be as polarizing a get as Alex Smith was as to fans. 

Would he, though?

 

I mean I don’t think there are many that doubt Stafford’s ability. 
 

It’s the trade compensation. 

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I don’t see Fitzpatrick as an ideal solution for Turner’s offense from my perception.  He’s not mobile anymore.  He turns the ball over a lot.  Maybe, with the defense, they can be comfortable with that.  I love the guy.  Though I think Taylor fits what Turner wants to do better.  
 

I don’t think they need to be great at QB, just professional and competent consistently.

I could see them preserve their draft capital, take a FA like Taylor, Fitz, or Trubisky and take a flier on Newman with one of their 3rds.

 

I don't love any of the FA options.  But if I had to choose right now it would be Fitzpatrick or T. Taylor.  Agree that Taylor would fit better all the backfield motion stuff considering he would present his own threat to add to its power. 

[jobaga]

Does anyone think Wentz would be available? He would be an interesting option if the asking price was reasonable?

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't love any of the FA options.  But if I had to choose right now it would be Fitzpatrick or T. Taylor.  Agree that Taylor would fit better all the backfield motion stuff considering he would present his own threat to add to its power. 

There’s a reason Tyrod Taylor hasn’t started for more than a few games in his last few stops and he only started with significant time with Buffalo who refused to budge on him for 3 years for whatever reason. 
 

He’s one of the bottom tier options in my eyes. I really just don’t want him UNLESS he’s a pure stop gap to give the keys to a rookie fairly quickly.

1 minute ago, jobaga said:

Does anyone think Wentz would be available? He would be an interesting option if the asking price was reasonable?

 

He could be. Philly won’t trade him here.

[Ball Security]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

There’s a reason Tyrod Taylor hasn’t started for more than a few games in his last few stops and he only started with significant time with Buffalo who refused to budge on him for 3 years for whatever reason. 
 

He’s one of the bottom tier options in my eyes. I really just don’t want him UNLESS he’s a pure stop gap to give the keys to a rookie fairly quickly.

He could be. Philly won’t trade him here.

Reasons like he had a concussion in Cleveland and they turned to their number one pick and he got stabbed by the team doctor in LA and they went with their first rounder?  😆 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

Reasons like he had a concussion in Cleveland and they turned to their number one pick and he got stabbed by the team doctor in LA and they went with their first rounder?  😆 

 

Sure. But there’s a reason why these teams were so quick to use those situations as a thinly veiled reason to pull him.

 

He’s a reliable back up QB and stop gap. Likable. Capable.

 

But I don’t see him as a big upgrade to Kyle Allen. Or an upgrade at all.

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Sure. But there’s a reason why these teams were so quick to use those situations as a thinly veiled reason to pull him.

 

He’s a reliable back up QB and stop gap. Likable. Capable.

 

But I don’t see him as a big upgrade to Kyle Allen. Or an upgrade at all.

I don’t disagree.  We’re not going to find a long term solution in FA.  They need to evaluate if they are better options than Allen and Heinicke (which I think is possible).

Have you studied Newman?  On paper he seems intriguing as a guy you could get in the third or fourth and develop at an appropriate pace while keeping your 1st and 2nd.