Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[CommDownMan]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Seeing how ga-ga people are going because of Taylor’s good game against the Bucs is wild. This is some straight up Brock Osweiler fangirling 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I know why it shouldn't be surprising...

 

Outside on not broken RGIII and few random games out of some of these guys, there really isn't same level moxie.  You don't bank on it, but we are a starving fan base and TH threw us a chicken bone.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_Football_Team_starting_quarterbacks

1992	Mark Rypien (16)
1993	Mark Rypien (10) / Rich Gannon (4) / Cary Conklin (2)
1994	Heath Shuler (8) / John Friesz (4) / Gus Frerotte (4)
1995	Gus Frerotte (11) / Heath Shuler (5)
1996	Gus Frerotte (16)
1997	Gus Frerotte (13) / Jeff Hostetler (3)
1998	Trent Green (14) / Gus Frerotte (2)
1999	Brad Johnson (16)
2000	Brad Johnson (11) / Jeff George (5)
2001	Tony Banks (14) / Jeff George (2)
2002	Shane Matthews (7) / Patrick Ramsey (5) / Danny Wuerffel (4)
2003	Patrick Ramsey (11) / Tim Hasselbeck (5)
2004	Mark Brunell (9) / Patrick Ramsey (7)
2005	Mark Brunell (15) / Patrick Ramsey (1)
2006	Mark Brunell (9) / Jason Campbell (7)
2007	Jason Campbell (13) / Todd Collins (3)
2008	Jason Campbell (16)
2009	Jason Campbell (16)
2010	Donovan McNabb (13) / Rex Grossman (3)
2011	Rex Grossman (13) / John Beck (3)
2012	Robert Griffin III (15) / Kirk Cousins (1)
2013	Robert Griffin III (13) / Kirk Cousins (3)
2014	Robert Griffin III (7) / Kirk Cousins (5) / Colt McCoy (4)
2015	Kirk Cousins (16)
2016	Kirk Cousins (16)
2017	Kirk Cousins (16)
2018	Alex Smith (10) / Josh Johnson (3) / Colt McCoy (2) / Mark Sanchez (1)
2019	Case Keenum (8) / Dwayne Haskins (7) / Colt McCoy (1)
2020	Alex Smith (6) / Dwayne Haskins (6) / Kyle Allen (4)

Edited February 5, 2021 by jsharrin55

[Darth Tater]

2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Herbert just had the best rookie passing season ever for a QB, and it wasn’t off the back of a run-heavy scheme or gimmicky offense. What exactly do you disagree with. Thinking that isn’t worth more than Chase Young is just silly. Of course it is. 

I just watched a vid.  We need to sign Tyrod Taylor and then pick a QB in round 1 or 2 (probably doesn't matter who). If you sign him as a starter, your draft choice to replace him always seems to work out (3 for 3).  Smith is just 2 for 3 with the failure of Haskins (and Collins probably should not have replaced him) although Taylor or Kyle may make him 3 for 4.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This typically occurs with folks that follow a guy from college to the pros, a la Colt Brennan.  This is actually mild compared to him, when we had all these Hawaii folks showing up to tell us about how Colt was the god of QBs.

The biggest difference being that heinicke did it in a playoff game against a very good defense that ended up in the superbowl. 

Having said that I understand all the concerns and I'm with sip on this one, my biggest concern is that Rivera doesn't seem to think he's starter material.

I fear he goes elsewhere, I'll be satisfied with almost any off-season result as long as he's still on the roster. 

I want him to get another chance to prove everybody wrong and I want it to happen in a w.f.t. jersey.

Edited February 5, 2021 by redskinss

[CommDownMan]

20 minutes ago, dyst said:

So if Eagles trade Wentz are they going with Hurtz or likely now a QB prospect in the draft 

 

If trade is with Bears, I think Foles could come back and then they go Hurts with Foles as backup.  I think if they are comfortable trading Wentz, they still like Hurts.  Then I still see their 1st going to a WR. 

 

But that is nothing more than outsider thought and that doesn't mean anything.  Haha. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Rskins91 said:

The only thing giving me pause is the Gase effect. We saw what Tannehill was able to become when he escaped Adam Gase.

 

But agreed on compensation. I’d do it for a day 3, but likely will have to stomach up a Day 2 pick.

 

No way for a 1st. 

 

The thing is though Tannehill didn't suck in Miami he ranged friom average to decent.   He had mostly a good TD-INT ratio there.  His completion rate was decent, too.    His YPA was decent.  He wasn't close to abysmal like Darnold has been.  Tannehill climbed from being a C plus QB to a B plus.  Darnold is hovering around a D minus-F range. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

I want nothing to do with Darnold.  His draft status is the only reason people think he's good.  Give me Allen/Heineke any day over Darnold.

 

Flacco outproduced him big time this year when he played.

[CommDownMan]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The thing is though Tannehill didn't suck in Miami he ranged friom average to decent.   He had mostly a good TD-INT ratio there.  His completion rate was decent, too.    His YPA was decent.  He wasn't close to abysmal like Darnold has been.  Tannehill climbed from being a C plus QB to a B plus.  Darnold is hovering around a D minus-F range. 

 

I think Miami then was overall better than the Jets have been, but the gap still remains.  Plus, Darnolds numbers were fairly similar pre-Gase (although being his rookie year that may not be fair).

2 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I want nothing to do with Darnold.  His draft status is the only reason people think he's good.  Give me Allen/Heineke any day over Darnold.

 

Flacco outproduced him big time this year when he played.

 

If Darnold was cut and we could sign less than 9.7mill, I'd be willing to talk about it.  I don't see that being likely though.

[TheShredder]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Seeing how ga-ga people are going because of Taylor’s good game against the Bucs is wild. This is some straight up Brock Osweiler fangirling 

That's not accurate as his playing style has been consistent all the way through his college days and pros.  Watch the first 20 seconds of this clip and you'll see him diving for the end-zone pylon from the 4, at ODU.  The plays he's made are not 5 quarters of the 2020 season.  That's plain lazy lack of due diligence.  If I were to cast any doubt about his ability, it would be about the same as WFT coaches whom point out that the concern is results when he's not plaing with nothing to lose.  But that's some weak banter when the guy hasn't been given the opportunity to access that measurable.  Basically they're saying that they're not confident in what they haven't been able to access... That's garbage scared money.  Afraid to take a shot means you never score.  Kids never been given a fair shot and they could be looking past a diamond in the rough. 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by TheShredder

[Mooka]

2 hours ago, Ashburn Dave said:

 

I'm not saying that Chase is the next LT or Ray Lewis but I wonder if the Giants or Ravens would have even entertained the thought of trading either one of them for a potential franchise QB, especially after their first year.

 

Hard to say in terms of pure football and wins.

 

But these guys were such big stars you'd have to factor in how much they were worth in marketing/sales. 

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

I answered this before. So, what height and weight is going to make people more confident and can Heinicke come into camp with stature improvements to off-set injury concerns?

First, he's the same stature as Drew Brees.  

 

 

 

Heinicke himself admitted that the Internet has it wrong and he's under 6 foot.    One said forgetting whom he's under 200 pounds.

 

But playing to your point there is nothing you can do to convince me unless you are working for the team and communicating your program to them directly and they are implementing it.  You have an opinion and that's cool but its not relevant to their opinion.   I am interested in what they think because they are the ones driving the car on this.  And when I hear they have durability concerns and are on the quest to find a different QB1, I'd think there is likely some sound logic and reason behind it. 

 

The team has had him in house on and off for years.  They got weight trainers. They have doctors.  They know his injury history.  They know his physique.  They have physical trainers in house trained to handle the players.   I'd think Rivera would love it if he thought Heinicke was the answer and he believed he can endure a 16 game season.   I doubt he's dying to give up draft picks in trades just for kicks.  So clearly he has concerns about the dude at least from the context of being the starter. 

 

If they change their mind about this, then so will I.  At the moment it seems like they believe that Heinicke is a good backup.  That's cool with me.  If in a month from now or whenever they say after seriously thinking about this, we arrived at the conclusion that Heinicke is the guy and we think he can endure a season -- good enough for me.

 

In short, i am not going against Rivera's judgment on QBs.

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

There's no way Brees and Taylor are the same size, Taylor looks like he's 5-10 and about 190 to me. The thing that concerns me with him is he really doesn't have much room for adding mass, his frame is pretty small. This is probably going to be one of those times that's unfortunate because the ability is there but it won't keep him off the injured list. 

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

I think Miami then was overall better than the Jets have been, but the gap still remains.  Plus, Darnolds numbers were fairly similar pre-Gase (although being his rookie year that may not be fair).

 

If Darnold was cut and we could sign less than 9.7mill, I'd be willing to talk about it.  I don't see that being likely though.

 

I get the Miami games here, I've watched plenty of Tannehill and to a lesser extent Darnold.  Miami wasn't loaded the whole time Tannehill was there.  They mostly actually had a bad O line and not the best running game.   Tannehill looked decent but always seemed to leave you wanting more.  His issue was he wasn't a gamer, he struggled with the game on the line.  They put a lot on his shoulders though.   Darnold's similar to Ryan pre Gase?    Tannehill's typical year wasn't like a close to 1:1 TD-INT ratio, 57% completion rate and under 3000 yards like Darnold was pre Gase.

 

Darnold to me is a game manager with accuracy issues who makes a ton of mistakes.  

Edited February 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Darth Tater]

28 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I want nothing to do with Darnold.  His draft status is the only reason people think he's good.  Give me Allen/Heineke any day over Darnold.

 

Flacco outproduced him big time this year when he played.

Darnold is a no in trade (though I might consider a 5 or later). I would definitely go after him if cut if we are still looking post draft. Truth is, that I support whatever we do until we try something else.

[mistertim]

37 minutes ago, redskinss said:

The biggest difference being that heinicke did it in a playoff game against a very good defense that ended up in the superbowl. 

Having said that I understand all the concerns and I'm with sip on this one, my biggest concern is that Rivera doesn't seem to think he's starter material.

I fear he goes elsewhere, I'll be satisfied with almost any off-season result as long as he's still on the roster. 

I want him to get another chance to prove everybody wrong and I want it to happen in a w.f.t. jersey.

 

Why in the world would this be a fear? The dude has been on 5 NFL teams in 6 seasons and was pulled out of an engineering class at ODU as an emergency COVID QB. Overall he played well against TB but let's not pretend that he pulled a Flynn and threw for 480 yards and 6 TDs. I seriously doubt other teams are exactly beating down his door.

[TheShredder]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In short, i am not going against Rivera's judgment on QBs.

Clearly they've been wrong before.  Just replay the Haskins banter from pre-camp all the way through repeated mistakes and losses until he got cut.  RR isn't an offensive guru, nor does he claim to be.  He's got concerns about a guys stature that matches a future Hall of Famer.  RR also said his biggest mistake was not having a true QB competition last year.  He wasn't subject of any NFL trainers from last year, least the WFT.  Durability concerns can be addressed and are quiet different when a guy is always coming in for potentially his last chance.  Guys been playing for his life all the time.  I'm just saying that it's clear he can play and it's not 5 Qrts of tape.  Let's hope they don't bet the farm on another mistake and right the wrongs from last year with a true QB competition.

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Clearly they've been wrong before.  Just replay the Haskins banter from pre-camp all the way through repeated mistakes and losses until he got cut.  RR isn't an offensive guru, nor does he claim to be.  He's got concerns about a guys stature that matches a future Hall of Famer.  RR also said his biggest mistake was not having a true QB competition last year.  He wasn't subject of any NFL trainers from last year, least the WFT.  Durability concerns can be addressed and are quiet different when a guy is always coming in for potentially his last chance.  Guys been playing for his life all the time.  I'm just saying that it's clear he can play and it's not 5 Qrts of tape.  Let's hope they don't bet the farm on another mistake and right the wrongs from last year with a true QB competition.

 

Why do you keep saying it's not 5 quarters of tape? Did he come in wearing someone else's jersey during the season or something and we all just missed it? We have 5 quarters of play with us to judge by.

 

And it's not just his stature. The guy has been injured over and over again (whilst not even being a starter) and he barely came back in when he started during TB and got dinged up.

 

RR isn't an offensive guru but I'd put money on him and Turner both knowing more than you. They clearly don't have much faith in TH being "the guy". Otherwise they wouldn't be so aggressively going after other QBs. 

 

I get that you seem to really love the dude and want him to get a shot, and he might get a chance to compete depending on who we bring in. But it's clear that the team doesn't see him as the future at this point.

Edited February 6, 2021 by mistertim

[redskinss]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I seriously doubt other teams are exactly beating down his door.

I'm not suggesting there's a line for his services, but I'd bet any amount of money that if we didn't sign him he'd have multiple suitors for training camp.

Everyone in the league saw what we did, most guys that had a career exactly as you described and were brought in off the street would have looked absolutely atrocious in that situation but not only did he not wilt he looked great.

Not saying he can sustain it just want to make sure we get a chance to find out before some other team does.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I'm not suggesting there's a line for his services, but I'd bet any amount of money that if we didn't sign him he'd have multiple suitors for training camp.

Everyone in the league saw what we did, most guys that had a career exactly as you described and were brought in off the street would have looked absolutely atrocious in that situation but not only did he not wilt he looked great.

Not saying he can sustain it just want to make sure we get a chance to find out before some other team does.

 

I don't really care one way or the other, to be honest. It would be great if he ended up being some top franchise QB that 5 other teams just completely whiffed on somehow. It would also be great if I won the lottery. That doesn't mean I'm going to plan my future as though I'm going to win it. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Last week, I saw her on GMFB. And on day in particular, it must have been Casual Day on GMFB, she literally looked like she just rolled out of bed, didn't even touch her hair or makeup, or even clothing, and just showed up at the studio, as is.

Her hair was all frizzy, and sticking every which way, and clearly was not intentionally styled that way, but totally looked like bed-head and no make-up, and just wearing a grey long-sleeve sweat-shirt, like she might have even slept in that as well, that was oversized and reached all the way past her hands. And looked like she didn't have a care in the world, just trying to wake up.

And still...was one of the most gorgeous things on all of TV.

You got me excited with that description.  Sounds like she took the walk of shame from some lucky ****'s place to the studio.

[TheShredder]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Why do you keep saying it's not 5 quarters of tape? Did he come in wearing someone else's jersey during the season or something and we all just missed it? We have 5 quarters of play with us to judge by.

That's a BS argument. You're obviously discounting the fact that he's played football before and glorifying that he only got 5 qrts in a WFT jersey. 

I'm not in love with Heinicke.  He's clearly earned a chance.  Don't try and put words in my mouth and don't Troll me. 

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This typically occurs with folks that follow a guy from college to the pros, a la Colt Brennan.  This is actually mild compared to him, when we had all these Hawaii folks showing up to tell us about how Colt was the god of QBs.

 

Sure, we have a few folks here still buzzing off the playoff game, but I think for the most part reality has set in and people realize the likelihood that he's our guy moving forward is very slim.

 

I say this as someone who loved everything about TH's performance for us and certainly would welcome him back to camp.  

I think he’s the perfect back-up tbh.

[redskinss]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't really care one way or the other, to be honest. It would be great if he ended up being some top franchise QB that 5 other teams just completely whiffed on somehow. It would also be great if I won the lottery. That doesn't mean I'm going to plan my future as though I'm going to win it. 

I agree, I would be fine with them bringing in a solid established veteran.

I wanted stafford, thought he'd make us a contender almost immediately if we could add a few pieces. 

I'm not on the heinicke or bust train, I just know how pissed I'd be if he was playing for another team next year and performing like he did against the bucs.

And there's no way I'd be able to justify it by saying that we couldn't have possibly known. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Clearly they've been wrong before.  Just replay the Haskins banter from pre-camp all the way through repeated mistakes and losses until he got cut.  RR isn't an offensive guru, nor does he claim to be.  He's got concerns about a guys stature that matches a future Hall of Famer.  RR also said his biggest mistake was not having a true QB competition last year.  He wasn't subject of any NFL trainers from last year, least the WFT.  Durability concerns can be addressed and are quiet different when a guy is always coming in for potentially his last chance.  Guys been playing for his life all the time.  I'm just saying that it's clear he can play and it's not 5 Qrts of tape.  Let's hope they don't bet the farm on another mistake and right the wrongs from last year with a true QB competition.

 

Heinicke himself said he's not 6 foot.  Yet you keep ignoring that and are sticking with the Brees stature point.  Also Heinicke's injury history is real.  It's not a theory.  We can say all day long that Heinicke has the same physique/stature that Brees has so why concerns about injuries.  But Brees has been relatively healthy for most albeit not his full career.  Heinicke in a short sample doesn't seem to have similar luck.  

 

As for the Haskins stuff. It came out also that he wasn't high on Haskins from the jump (but clearly had to pander some to his new boss), he benched him after 4 games and was trashed for giving up so quick on Haskins when he was benched via a bunch among the national media and some on this board.   It was a ballsy move.  Time might make it feel less so.  But Rivera was seriously questioned at that juncture for moving too fast let alone too slow. 

 

I can't really say the idea that he gave Haskins too much rope shows some colossal misjudgment. And this is coming from a dude who wasn't a Haskins guy from the jump. If I recall Haskins was the quickest give up (as to his release) on a first round Qb in 20 years or something like that so I can't give him a hard time for not pulling the trigger even quicker.   Rivera was mocked by some for giving up so quick.  The idea that Rivera criticized himself for not giving up even sooner I take as sort of departing shot at Haskins more than anything.   

 

Now if Rivera drafted Haskins and bet on him as the guy then I'd right there with you, that's a screw up.  But all he was doing with Haskins is cleaning up the mess he inherited.  This board has come a long way from that benching -- if we are now debating whether Rivera was actually too patient with Haskins.  😀

 

But yeah if you are confident that you got a better handle on Heinicke's durability or whatever versus Rivera/Turner, that's cool.  I appreciate the conviction you have in your opinion but for me I am riding on Rivera over you for now on the topic.    

 

I am plenty open minded on Heinicke if anything I used to think I am pretty far on the deep end on him by accepting his short sample but apparently I am far from it considering I've spent more time arguing with the Heincike hive of late than the ones who are more skeptical of him.  I like him.  But I am going to hold my horses on Heinicke until I see something from the powers that be that convince me they feel this dude is the right guy to be QB1.  

 

As for having a gripe with Rivera on this potentially.   Look we wouldn't even know the dude if it weren't for him.  Rivera brought Heinicke to the party.  So i am going to let him dictate my enthusiasm level. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

20 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

That's a BS argument. You're obviously discounting the fact that he's played football before and glorifying that he only got 5 qrts in a WFT jersey. 

I'm not in love with Heinicke.  He's clearly earned a chance.  Don't try and put words in my mouth and don't Troll me. 

 

He's literally thrown more than 1 pass in 1 other NFL game in the last 6 seasons. Ok fine, we'll add that one in too. Overall with that added in he now has 3 TDs and 4 INTs and an average QBR of 39.4. Happy? Or are you going with the "But look at what he did in college!" argument?

 

"He clearly earned a chance". RR doesn't necessarily seem to think so, otherwise we wouldn't be going hard after other QBs.

Edited February 6, 2021 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]